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The Unofficial Hillary vs Donald 2024 Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny thread (1 Viewer)

NorvilleBarnes

Footballguy
This could happen. It probably won't happen - but it could. Political predictions 3 years out are notoriously bad (Hi Tim). In 2013 few predicted Trump for 2016, and in 2005, few predicted Obama for 2008.

For the Democrats, a LOT would need to happen for this dream (and by dream I mean nightmare) match up.  Biden would need to be unwilling or unable to run again. This part seems the most likeliest of all this to me. Despite being VP, Kamala would get utterly destroyed by Hillary. Harris might not even run against her.

For the GOP, very little would need to happen. All the inertia favors both Trump running (officially) and winning the nomination. It wouldn't be a cakewalk - there would be a lot of opposition. But there was a lot of GOP opposition in 2007 as well. 

Thoughts?

 
This could happen. It probably won't happen - but it could. Political predictions 3 years out are notoriously bad (Hi Tim). In 2013 few predicted Trump for 2016, and in 2005, few predicted Obama for 2008.

For the Democrats, a LOT would need to happen for this dream (and by dream I mean nightmare) match up.  Biden would need to be unwilling or unable to run again. This part seems the most likeliest of all this to me. Despite being VP, Kamala would get utterly destroyed by Hillary. Harris might not even run against her.

For the GOP, very little would need to happen. All the inertia favors both Trump running (officially) and winning the nomination. It wouldn't be a cakewalk - there would be a lot of opposition. But there was a lot of GOP opposition in 2007 as well. 

Thoughts?
I think Hillary will be handed the democrat super delegates.

 
Geriatric battle for world power!

We REALLY need age caps on public office...especially the highest office. 

 
It could happen. They both have no shame. Trump’s definitely running. For Hillary it would have to be Biden can’t or won’t run for some reason. 

 
Thoughts?


Four initial thoughts

1) Clinton would need to detach from Benghazi as there's going to be an optical problem with what Biden did in Afghanistan ( i.e. an indictment of the Party in general and for establishment Democrats)

The only leverage she really has right now is "her money". Untold sums of previous campaign money and dark money tucked into every corner like Pablo Escobar.

To wipe out two birds with one stone, she's going to have to self fund hiring every high level military contractor she can find and leverage and get them to run ops into Afghanistan to get out American citizens. It needs to be big and splashy. Someone will say Clinton can't do that and can't get away with that, she's not in any kind of office nor in any kind of power position. And I'll say no one can stop her. What are the counter narratives against anyone who tries to stop her?

It would give her a hard reset against her Benghazi narrative.

2) From an aesthetic level, she's going to have to grow her hair out long and lose a tremendous amount of weight. She needs to visually be distinctively different from the 2016 run. She'll also have to divorce Bill Clinton. There are already divorce rumors out there but she needs to strike first. She also going to have to can the fake smile. I understand why she was told that was good media optics and I know of exactly the people hired in private to tell her those things and they are all idiots.

3) Clinton amassed the largest political financial warchest in 2016 that anyone has ever seen. Part of that deal was big money donors expected a return on that investment when she got into office. Well she didn't get into office. So they paid upfront and she didn't deliver. She made a lot of campaign mistakes but she can't rely on that kind of money again. Not even her personal wealth plus all the dark money can cover what this will cost.  She needs a "ground game"  That means door to doors and young vibrant footsoldiers hitting the pavement. Establishment Democrats don't really maximize a ground game. She didnt' do it in 2016. That means she needs to cut a deal with AOC. She has to carry AOC as her VP candidate and guarantee M4A in public. Anyone who aligns with AOC won't get big hitters from Big Finance to run in lockstep with them. Too much Anti-Semetism in play there with what The Squad has done and said before.  What AOC can give Hillary will be a massive social media platform and an entire legion of young zealots. Clinton can't give AOC the entire Green New Deal package, she can drive M4A and put AOC in a better position to run for POTUS on her own down the road. Clinton can't carry Stacey Abrams, two women who previously screamed stolen elections against Trump isn't exactly going to help any Democrat's practical cause.

I don't think Clinton can win in any scenario, but to give herself her best relative shot given the situation, she's going to have to run this lean and with a grind it out mentality. This will be a Dollar Tree version of a Campaign Without Coffers. For a Democrat to win 2024, they have to blend "Republican-Lite" with the less brutal elements of the Progressives.

Clinton made too many enemies and made too many mistakes. She made some brutal ones during the election cycle in 2016 and she made a ton after the election.

4) In order to run against Trump again, she also has to shut down the J6 narrative. Because that's enough to drive away enough support for Trump to push all leverage to either Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis. She can't beat those two in any format. If she needs Trump cleared from J6 on paper ( but not in legacy), then she needs to pin it on Obama and Biden. She's going to have to trade blows with them anyway trying to take the ticket by force and threatening the ACA. As the FBI are the modern day Praetorian Guard, she's going to have to cut a deal with them as well.

This is pretty ugly. This is like giving Brian Schottenheimer a QB56 like Billy Joe Hobert and expecting to get to the playoffs.

 
I woke up from a cold sweat after a nap.  Had a nightmare @NorvilleBarnesstarted a thread putting out into the universe the juju of Hillary vs Trump 2.0, to my horror when I logged into FBG’s I’d seen might nightmare realized.  Please for the love of god erase this thread immediately.  Poking the universe in the eye with that stick is a bad idea my ifriend.  

 
If Hillary and Donald run again, then a decent 3rd party candidate might have a chance.

If I was going to put money on it, I'd say Trump runs again but Clinton does not. She seems pretty done. But who knows at this point?

 
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As utterly ridiculous as it was for her to share her victory speech, I would assume that’s a small indicator that she’s done.  Please god, let her be done.  

Let them run against each other for Condo board chairman of Del Boca Vista.

 
As utterly ridiculous as it was for her to share her victory speech, I would assume that’s a small indicator that she’s done.  Please god, let her be done. 


Every "brand name" establishment Democrat is going to consider running at this point. The field is wide open this time. That generally does not happen in modern professional politics. There is always a process of "grooming" a new candidate over time. Nikki Haley was being groomed for a future POTUS run all the way back in 2012. Trump was not as much of an "outsider" as most people think. He didn't hold office but he was a power player within the same ranks as heavy hitter politicians. DNC HQ had their eyes on Obama for a long time before he was chosen.

The 38th in Texas is being formed after redistricting. Wesley Hunt has been tabbed by Ronna McDaniel and RNC HQ to run there. They want him in office. They've wanted him in office for a while now. He's a rising star in their eyes. It's quietly known that McDaniel also wants a high profile Korean candidate. Everyone who works media in high level politics is looking at Jonny Kim. He's Korean American, has a compelling backstory that sells, and is an astronaut/physician/Navy SEAL. Kim is almost a Tom Clancy character at this point in terms of pure marketability.

People just don't come out of nowhere. It might look that way on the surface a few times but it generally does not happen.

If the mantra is "Next Man Up" then the DNC is screwed here. Unless they can convince Oprah Winfrey to run, 2024 is all but lost. Hillary Clinton is eyeing a run, everyone who can be even considered a fringe darkhorse candidate on up is eyeing a run. What no one wants to talk about is that Hillary Clinton running isn't a bad thing for the RNC. She has close to zero chance of winning and she immediately punishes any kind of positive optics about a Michelle Obama run. ( Former First Ladies are political poison - that's not a hard sell )

 
If Hillary and Donald run again, then a decent 3rd party candidate might have a chance.

If I was going to put money on it, I'd say Trump runs again but Clinton does not. She seems pretty done. But who knows at this point?
Nope.  Sorry   No third party candidate will win

 
Right after the new year, Harris will be forced to resign as VP to be replaced by Hillary. 
Within the year, Biden resigns for "health reasons" and Hillary becomes President. 

 
As utterly ridiculous as it was for her to share her victory speech, I would assume that’s a small indicator that she’s done.  Please god, let her be done.  

Let them run against each other for Condo board chairman of Del Boca Vista.
Just gotta make sure those tip calculators work. 

 
Right after the new year, Harris will be forced to resign as VP to be replaced by Hillary. 
Within the year, Biden resigns for "health reasons" and Hillary becomes President. 
Boy....Harris resigning would be earth shattering and seems like it might be unlikely.    What have we had...2 of them in history?  Plus the message is poor.  A black woman can't handle it?    I don't know....seems like a huge hill to climb here.   

But also......somewhat plausible?

 
As utterly ridiculous as it was for her to share her victory speech, I would assume that’s a small indicator that she’s done.  Please god, let her be done.  

Let them run against each other for Condo board chairman of Del Boca Vista.


I saw that Saturday with her sharing the victory speech and wondered about it. I'm still not sure what I think about it. I voted for her. And the speech about what she would have told her mother back when she was frightened was powerful. But I wondered about sharing that after losing the election. 

 
I saw that Saturday with her sharing the victory speech and wondered about it. I'm still not sure what I think about it. I voted for her. And the speech about what she would have told her mother back when she was frightened was powerful. But I wondered about sharing that after losing the election. 
Sharing the victory speech was for a master class on running for President. It was in the context of writing both a victory speech and a concession speech beforehand. As usual, it was taken out of context as a means to attach and embarrass her. 
I’m betting it was a fascinating master class. 

 
Sharing the victory speech was for a master class on running for President. It was in the context of writing both a victory speech and a concession speech beforehand. As usual, it was taken out of context as a means to attach and embarrass her. 
I’m betting it was a fascinating master class. 


It wasn't taken out of context. I'm a masterclass subscriber and look forward to watching the class. It's about resiliency.

I saw on the network interview this weekend where she talked to the interviewer (Willie Geist maybe) about resiliency and she read the speech. (May have been part of the Masterclass, I'm not sure)

I don't know what you mean about "as usual" but this was not taken out of context and not in any way meant to embarrass her. 

 
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Sharing the victory speech was for a master class on running for President. It was in the context of writing both a victory speech and a concession speech beforehand. As usual, it was taken out of context as a means to attach and embarrass her. 
I’m betting it was a fascinating master class. 
I'm holding out for the master class on How to Win the Super Bowl with Chad Pennington.

 
It wasn't taken out of context. I'm a masterclass subscriber and look forward to watching the class. It's about resiliency.

I saw on the network interview this weekend where she talked to the interviewer (Willie Geist maybe) about resiliency and she read the speech. (May have been part of the Masterclass, I'm not sure)

I don't know what you mean about "as usual" but this was not taken out of context and not in any way meant to embarrass her. 
The right wing media had a field day mocking her as delusional for doing this. That’s what I mean by “as usual”. 

 
But in any case she’s not running again. 
I don't know.  She wants it, bad.   And she wants to run against trump.   If he runs she at least asks the party bosses for support and the clintons call in any  chits they are still owed.   But I doubt they have many.

 
I don't know.  She wants it, bad.   And she wants to run against trump.   If he runs she at least asks the party bosses for support and the clintons call in any  chits they are still owed.   But I doubt they have many.
There aren’t any party bosses any more. There is Jim Clyburn. 

If Joe Biden wants it, he will be the nominee. If he doesn’t want it, it will almost surely be Kamala Harris. I know her poll numbers have tanked by she is still highly regarded by black women. And they are the deciders in the Democratic Party. 

 
The right wing media had a field day mocking her as delusional for doing this. That’s what I mean by “as usual”. 


I didn't see any of that. But I don't consume a lot of right wing media so I guess that makes sense.

It was hardly delusional for her to write a victory speech. She was a huge favorite to win. 

It's a fair question to ask if it was a good idea to release the speech now.

Those type of things usually are better when it's the other way around and the speech that wasn't delivered was a negative one. Like they had prepared in case the first astronauts didn't come back. 

 
There aren’t any party bosses any more. There is Jim Clyburn. 

If Joe Biden wants it, he will be the nominee. If he doesn’t want it, it will almost surely be Kamala Harris. I know her poll numbers have tanked by she is still highly regarded by black women. And they are the deciders in the Democratic Party. 
Then why have superdelegates?   It's so the party bosses can put their finger on the scale.

I hope you realize you just told me their aren't party bosses there is jim clyburn then proceeded to tell me who the party bosses are.     You don't think black women can be  super delegates?

 
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Then why have superdelegates?   It's so the party bosses can put their finger on the scale.

I hope you realize you just told me their aren't party bosses there is jim clyburn then proceeded to tell me who the party bosses are.     You don't think they are the super delegates?
Super delegates are so that folks who give money to the party can get perks like better hotel rooms and free meals. They don’t decide anything, don’t have any real power. Never had. 

 
I think the Dems might be gearing up to run Newsom

they know that HRC is divisive and the Biden and Harris are lightweights that they can’t expose to a normal campaign cycle.

 
There aren’t any party bosses any more. There is Jim Clyburn. 

If Joe Biden wants it, he will be the nominee. If he doesn’t want it, it will almost surely be Kamala Harris. I know her poll numbers have tanked by she is still highly regarded by black women. And they are the deciders in the Democratic Party. 


Hmm. The party of black women. 

 
Nope.  Sorry   No third party candidate will win


Trump can offer Tulsi Gabbard the role of Secretary Of State ( contingent upon him winning) if she agrees to run as an independent for POTUS to divide votes away from the establishment Democrats.

Gabbard has zero chance to win but there are massive upsides for her

1) She can generate massive fundraising for herself in 2024 and in the future

2) She becomes politically relevant again. It might even reboot her into contender status again at some point. Doubtful but she'd have a window.

3) In the 2024 debate cycle, she would eviscerate Clinton and anyone else in her path. Her revenge would be public and undeniable. This time, no one can magically change the rules to exclude her.

4) She would have close to a blank check to hunt down everyone in the Democratic Party who turfed her and tried to end her political career. Why would Trump get in her way? He'd just set her loose. She would also have a blank check against Big Social Media as it pertains to what happens with them overseas.

This would all but force Clinton to offer AOC the VPOTUS nomination. Without that, AOC has every incentive to back Gabbard as this is the best way to start pushing her own people to win primaries against establishment Democrats down the ticket. Which would make Gabbard happy since she hates Clinton and AOC in a national debate cycle would be really ugly. AOC is passionate but she's an idiot and has no practical sense of functional public policy. It would only further drag down Clinton.  The lone upside is the new national discussion of M4A, which Tulsi supports and wants. Whichever way the wind blows with AOC, Gabbard wins.

Neither Trump nor Gabbard are warhawks and they have the same political enemies, that's all that they actually need in common here.

Turfing Tulsi Gabbard was mind boggling stupid political strategy by the core establishment Democrats. She's exactly the archetype ( minority woman, nice looking, military veteran, sounds rational) that they need right now and don't have.

If the Democratic Party was the 2006 Chicago Bears, Tulsi Gabbard was their Thomas Jones. I guess that makes Kamala Harris their Cedric Benson. Maybe Harris is their Garrett Wolfe. For some reason, I find Dexter Carter to be the most appropriate football spirit animal for Harris. Has a Super Bowl ring but is always remembered for being a first round bust and dropping kick offs and fumbling the football.

 
I saw that Saturday with her sharing the victory speech and wondered about it. I'm still not sure what I think about it. I voted for her. And the speech about what she would have told her mother back when she was frightened was powerful. But I wondered about sharing that after losing the election. 
I very reluctantly voted for her too - but that is a horrible look IMO.  Would we accept that from anyone else?  To be fair - I didn’t even listen to all of it so maybe she explained it well and I would say no big deal but as-is she should share positions without saying it was may victory speech.  Just MO.

 
I very reluctantly voted for her too - but that is a horrible look IMO.  Would we accept that from anyone else?  To be fair - I didn’t even listen to all of it so maybe she explained it well and I would say no big deal but as-is she should share positions without saying it was may victory speech.  Just MO.
LMAO - I’m an idiot and apparently losing my mind.  I didn’t vote for her - I knew (or thought I knew) Trump would win GA easily and I did a write-in.   :doh:

 
GordonGekko said:
If the mantra is "Next Man Up" then the DNC is screwed here.
Carter wasn't the "next man up"
Clinton wasn't the "next man up"
Obama wasn't the "next man up"
Arguably Biden applies but I think 2020 was a special circumstance

Mondale was "next man up"
Dukakis was not  (Hart was)
Kerry would be arguably
Hillary was.

The GOP used to be "next man up"  - Reagan, Bush, but actual winning candidates (W and Trumps) seldom are any more.  For either party.  

 

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