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The war in Afghanistan is over: we lost. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
It's too bad there wasn't a different president in charge for the last 8 months that could have reversed course.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
I don't find anything funny about this.
It's too bad there wasn't a different president in charge for the last 8 months that could have reversed course.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
except that Biden didn't want to reverse course.
It's too bad there wasn't a different president in charge for the last 8 months that could have reversed course.
Both Trump and Biden were correct to get out of that hell-hole. Sure the withdrawal was botched but I don't think a clean exit was ever a possibility.
We should have never gone over there, should never have stayed 20 years, and I am glad it is over.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
CNN is reporting that the suicide bomber who killed 13 U. S. troops and many Afghans at the Kabul airport was an ISIS-K member that had been released from the Parwan Prison at Bagram air base just a few days earlier.
We are truly being led by stupid people.
We are truly being led by stupid people.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
crickets
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Most reports I've seen say there about 100 Americans left in Afghanistan. I am not sure how or why they are being detained but I agree this should be top priority and the Biden administration should be getting grilled on this daily.John123 said:
As far as removing the "people that helped us" this was always going to be a difficult task no matter who was in charge. The latest report that I can find is that 130,000 Afghani's were airlifted which to me seems to be a pretty big number.
beer 30
Footballguy
Listened to a good podcast yesterday from Jocko and Darryl Cooper. They are what I consider two of the preeminent podcasters out there today and they team to discuss issues on the Unravelling. Their latest Unmitigated Disaster discusses the Afghan withdrawal. One of the more interesting things that came up were a string of text messages between a stateside Marine and some of the guys on the ground in Kabul right before the suicide bomb. They were discussing the countdown intelligence was sending them on when to expect the bomb to go off. They were an hour off but the string of texts was news to me and just another disappointing story in this debacle.
https://www.survivethenews.com/new-text-messages-reveal-2nd-bn-1st-marines-were-given-a-countdown-before-kabul-airport-bombing-it-started-about-two-hours-out-they-are-now-being-silenced/
https://www.survivethenews.com/new-text-messages-reveal-2nd-bn-1st-marines-were-given-a-countdown-before-kabul-airport-bombing-it-started-about-two-hours-out-they-are-now-being-silenced/
jamny
Footballguy
Who was transmitting the countdown. Were these intercepted Taliban transmissions or US military with actual eyes on the bomber?
beer 30
Footballguy
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Are you OK with the US taking in around 100,000 refugees from Afghanistan?John123 said:
John123 said:
We're now to the point President Biden can make a gaffe about "watch out , I'm learning to fly drones" and it's mostly
Old news I guess.
The people who 18 months couldn't wait to
any time Trump put his foot in his mouth with a 50,000 page thread here are now suddenly busy with work. And the people who were looking the other way back when their guy was getting ripped are now interested. The blind loyal tribalism on both sides is discouraging.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I don't think it's that extreme. Biden made a mess of the withdrawal, and I've laid that at his feet numerous times. That he says dumb things is also not surprising. I was 100% against someone that old gaining the office of President. I voted for him, yes, but he's not a great President by any means.
The General
Footballguy
TheWe're now to the point President Biden can make a gaffe about "watch out , I'm learning to fly drones" and it's mostly
Old news I guess.
The people who 18 months couldn't wait to
The blind loyal tribalism on both sides is discouraging.
part for me was with Trump's shtick were he acted as if he was some super genius all the time, when he fact he struggled to put a sentence together. Biden joking about droning the press is in poor taste.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
No doubt. I'm not saying people won't try to justify their tribalism. There's always some excuse for it like this.The
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Max Power
Footballguy
it's an interesting phenomena. If you haven't already, you should read up on mass formation in psychology also known as crowd psychology.
One of the lines of thinking is that the human race has depended on tribalism to survive for so long, that it is ingrained in us now. People have developed more "self worth" by being a member of a group.
It's current crossover with mass media and propaganda can take you down some scary roads though.
It's definitely ugly/scary/discouraging.
I'm regularly reminded when I see people I know to be intelligent smart and decent people and they go full into hypocritical 'but the OTHER side..." mode.
Or with a forum like ours, they'll continue to reach and justify why "it's different" for their side.
Hyporcrisy is tough to face in the mirror. I know well. I have the same problem.
Max Power
Footballguy
I think this forum also serves as a good place for us to all vent. We can say things here that we wouldn't necessarily say to our neighbors. That release is helpful.
Acknowledging your own hypocrisy is a difficult exercise. It might even be a diminishing skill or trait for humans as a whole. The internet is changing the ways our brains are functioning. Some for the better and some for the worse. I'm not sure what path this leads us down, but I'd wager it's not good. Hopefully I'm wrong.
In my heart I believe that almost everyone here wants what is best for America at the end of the day. Some ideas are starting to veer off-track and have maybe lost sight of the end goal. Its the ways we think are best to get to a better future that we seem so divided about.
The venting is a good point.
It's ugly sometimes and I'd much prefer for the place I provide for people to discuss things but a place where they actually discuss things and not scream the hysterical things they want to vent. I'd rather them use someone else's house to vomit everything. But I also get it.
Acknowledging one's hypocrisy is not just difficult in my opinion, but one of the most difficult things to do. I have a good friend who's near constant response to things is "Why do you think you think that?". It's super helpful as it makes me pause a second.
This is also a really good discussion that has nothing to do with Afghanistan. LOL.
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The General
Footballguy
That people want to laugh at a guy who hand draws a map and holds it up as proof to justify when he accidentally mentioned a state in the path of a hurricane is trivial stuff and admittedly not really useful. But it was funny. Trump did stuff like this all the time. Listening to Biden ramble on just doesn't carry the same comedic value to me. He also isn't in our face 24/7 sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
Acting as if Trump's shtick was normal is not realistic, it was his appeal to many of his followers.
People have their political leanings. Tax rates, should the government have policies and incentives in place to move towards different energy sources, etc. These are where most people are hopefully making their decisions when they pick their side.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Yeah, why do you think this is? I'd wager if the media was as laser focused on everything Biden said, ate, did the way they so breathlessly did with Trump for 4 years, you'd have oodles of comedic value. That they choose not to do this now that team blue is in there, is disappointing.
The General
Footballguy
Biden hides in the basement, doesn’t take questions, is managed by his team, right?
There are media out there that cater to your personal flavor.
Perhaps Don could have done some more of this but this was not his thing. He started everyday on his troll machine as a strategy, maybe because he wanted it all about him. Who knows why, but that was his thing.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I don't have a personal flavor. We had four years of expose articles about how many ice cream scoops Trump allowed people to have; Biden could take a #### in the Rose Garden and the silence would be deafening. Just would like some consistency with coverage of POTUS. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.
And Trump's insane narcissism was gleefully aided and abetted by the media.
The General
Footballguy
I wasn’t talking about you having a flavor of news but you can turn on Fox for 10 minutes and tell me that if you don’t get your fix of BS if you were so inclined. There are plenty of websites to get your fill as well.
MSNBC might not be the spot to turn to.
How does Trump and his constant stream of verbal diarrhea not play a part in his coverage? He was like a pig is #### when people talked about him.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Who said it didn't play a part in his coverage? I said he was an insane narcissist.
And I realize that you can turn to Fox news or Gateway Pundit to get anti Biden stories and those outlets are quickly derided as being trash-rightfully so in most cases-and are easily ignored by half or more than half of the population, which further feeds the narrative that any criticism about Biden by these outlets is fake news, when in reality some of it isn't.
It would be nice to see NYT, Wapo, etc. have the same level of interest in chasing down negative stories about Biden as they did about Trump. Somehow all of their annonymous sources seem to have have dried up. Jim Acosta made a clown show of "standing up to Trump". Why isn't he up there grandstanding when Psaki says 3.5 Trillion is 0?
The General
Footballguy
I’m just pointing out Trump banged hookers and paid them off, he said wild stuff about the military and veterans, he made fun of people’s wives, he peddled conspiracy theory openly, he had his own steaks, he used the best words, he wore more makeup than the housewives of Beverly Hills, he talked…non-stop. It worked for him. But these things will get covered extensively because they are, well, simply crazy to hear from a presidential candidate / Prez.
He was not a typical President or politician was one of his main draws.
He was not a typical President or politician was one of his main draws.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Agreed.
What does any of that have to do with Biden and the half assed coverage of seemingly newsworthy topics related to Biden and his admin? I mean the only "tough" questions I see thrown at Psaki come from Peter freaking Doocy.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You got me there.KingPrawn said:
I am 110% against octogenarian being president.
The General
Footballguy
I read about all Biden’s foibles and Psaki stuff in here. The Times broke the story about the droning for instance. How are we hearing about all this?unckeyherb said:
That Biden or “his handlers” have the decency to shut up certainly helps. If they are calling only on friendly reporters in their press conferences - I don’t know if this is true the ones I watched in August the Pentagon and State people were getting blasted up there everyday.
That Biden doesn’t begin the day “owning Conservatives” on Twitter is smart and welcome to many. If people want to give credit for Trump telling us his every thought fair enough. But don’t act as if he wasn’t in part culpable for creating the circus coverage.
The General said:
Again. Facing hypocrisy is hard. Way easier to keep coming up with excuses.
And please don't take this personally. This isn't about you. You're just providing the words I see a ton of people doing. It's entirely predictable.
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The General
Footballguy
Could you please explain this a bit more?
My contention is candidate Trump and Prez Trump were unusual and prone to sensational coverage. He in turn stoked this as strategy. It was extremely effective for him.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Jesus. You just can’t stop making it about trump. You keep coming back to this as though it’s an assertion I’ve made when in reality I’ve stated and reiterated three times that Trump is an insane narcissist and was culpable for some of the ridiculous coverage he received. You are arguing a point that I’m not even making. It’s freaking exhausting.
The General
Footballguy
Clinton- Impeached and attacked relentlessly- finished two terms
Bush Jr- Weapons of Mass Destruction and Mission Accomplished- Finished two terms
Obama- Mustard Suit, Fist Bump, If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr, Kenyan- Finished two terms
Trump- Impeached twice, attacked all comers relentlessly on a daily basis, encouraged and outright begged for acknowledgement and coverage- fired after one term
Biden- Messed up Afghanistan withdrawal and called out by All, pushing hard to get HUUUUGE infrastructure bill across the finish line, attacked by the orthodox of his tribe and pressed hard by the opposition press
The coverage of all but one of the above was similar, imo. The outlier was the megaphone pleading to be pat on the head.
Bush Jr- Weapons of Mass Destruction and Mission Accomplished- Finished two terms
Obama- Mustard Suit, Fist Bump, If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr, Kenyan- Finished two terms
Trump- Impeached twice, attacked all comers relentlessly on a daily basis, encouraged and outright begged for acknowledgement and coverage- fired after one term
Biden- Messed up Afghanistan withdrawal and called out by All, pushing hard to get HUUUUGE infrastructure bill across the finish line, attacked by the orthodox of his tribe and pressed hard by the opposition press
The coverage of all but one of the above was similar, imo. The outlier was the megaphone pleading to be pat on the head.
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unckeyherb
Footballguy
I know thats what you thought. Thats what YOU want to talk about. The coverage of Tump was mostly warranted. A lot of it wasn't. It was political activism. The NYT editor claimed as much. The coverage of Biden vs the coverage of Trump, even when allowing for Trump's antics, is not comparable. Its not close.
The General
Footballguy
That his antics caused much of his problems was my point. That he created this, reveled in it, used it as strategy, then has the audacity to cry at the same time about it was a nice touch.
Jim Acosta has bias. Many reporters on many networks do. Shocker we all do :gasp:
I think this fake news stuff is way overblown in regards to NY Times personally. Their reporting probably isn’t perfect but much better than most. As it relates to their coverage of Trump I found this interesting Link
unckeyherb
Footballguy
We aren't tasked with beinging the news to the American public, Acosta is. Its basic journalism to leave your bias at the door and report with as little editorializing as possible. This concept was completely forgotten during the Trump years. And this applied to CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, NYT, WaPo and about every other mainstream media outlet with the lone exception of Fox News.
Even their former editor conceded that the NYT news articles were unmistakably anti-trump and that they abandoned objectivity in the pursuit to resist the Tump admin.
The General
Footballguy
This editor did not work for the paper when Trump was prez. She wasn’t entirely critical of their coverage in any case.
Did you read the study I posted?
I believe the perception of coverage of Trump was clouded and unlike any other administration in large part because he acted like a lunatic and created a circus. It’s fine that we aren’t aligned here.
Media driven by a bottom line and clicks is problematic. Entertainment and journalism has definitely blurred more and more.
This has been something on my mind lately as well. I imagine CNN, Fox News, NYT are all using the same types of algorithms as Facebook and YouTube. Stories that get clicks, shares and comments are going to be automatically pushed to the top of their websites. So if all the Trump stories are being pushed to the top, it's because those are the ones that are selling. And if I want to make money as a news outlet, I am going to continue producing content that sells. Biden is boring. Trump is interesting(good or bad). I don't think there is anything nefarious about it. It is just capitalism. It's the same reason that there are so many tell all books about the Trump administration. John Bolton didn't write a book cause he wants to push the liberal agenda, he wrote a book cause he wanted to make a bunch of money.
The General
Footballguy
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
If this post was made by just about anyone else here I wouldn't think twice about it but coming from you is heartbreaking.We're now to the point President Biden can make a gaffe about "watch out , I'm learning to fly drones" and it's mostly
Old news I guess.
The people who 18 months couldn't wait to
The blind loyal tribalism on both sides is discouraging.
Stereotyping and extrapolating singular opinions, most often from a social media post of a non-elected official, is the straight from the far right playbook. It's wrong for them to do it and I'm embarrassed at how many decades I used faithfully absorb it. Worst yet, I believed most of it.
Off the top of my head look at the Cuomo or Frankin thread. Look at the dozens of posts from Democrats condemning him and of the opinion he should step down.
There have also been more than enough threads discussing how posters that normally vote R, didn't the last two elections because of Trump. I'm one of them. It would be tribalism if I did. I'll also point to my criticism of Elizabeth Warren last week in that thread. No need to rehash everything buth he has been a horrible person his entire life and even a worse president.
Is there tribalism? Absolutely. Don't paint people with such a broad brush. To say this is proof of tribalism by people who don't support Trump isn't accurate.
Your post, it's the first time I've ever seen it. I get my news from Google which includes Fox stories. It was obviously a joke but in extremely poor taste. As to why people aren't here laughing at him I think it's pretty easy, Biden has been a nice guy his whole life. Trump is a bully with the maturity and vocabulary of a ten year old. It doesn't matter if you are a war heto, disabled or have spent your entire life serving the country. Then there's that little matter of trying to steal the election and he's STILL sowing discontent. The only time in the history of this country there wasn't a peaceful transfer of power. There's no comparing Trump to Biden or Trump to most any other republicans past or present.
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Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Speaking of hypocrisy (not the quoted post):
AT&T funding OAN Everything AT&T owns
I find that juxtaposition fascinating for some reason but not surprising. If you don't think the media is playing you, you're not paying attention.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I did not vote for Trump but found it bizarre that even before he took office we had mainsteam media crying on the air because Hillary lost. We had others saying in the media saying "resist, resist, resist" Don`t comply to anything. This was before he took office.
Watching from afar it looked like people were not accepting the results of an election.
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