The war in Afghanistan is over: we lost. (2 Viewers)

[Joe Bryant]

I did not vote for Trump but found it bizarre that even before he took office we had mainsteam media crying on the air because Hillary lost.  We had others saying in the media saying "resist, resist, resist"  Don`t comply to anything.  This was before he took office.

Watching from afar it looked like people were not accepting the results of an election.

That's a perfect illustration.

I bought a Smokey The Bear "Resist" shirt in 2017. It generated entirely predicable responses then from the people you would have expected on both sides.

That shirt today, generates nearly opposite responses from 2017 from the exact same people on both sides.

Entirely predictable. 

The only thing more predictable is the mealy mouthed hypocrisy back pedaling on why "well THIS is different". 

 

[Scooby1974]

I did not vote for Trump but found it bizarre that even before he took office we had mainsteam media crying on the air because Hillary lost.  We had others saying in the media saying "resist, resist, resist"  Don`t comply to anything.  This was before he took office.

Watching from afar it looked like people were not accepting the results of an election.

Seth Abramson has done a lot of good research that actually DOES support claims of Trump's collusion and conspiracy. I don't spend too much time with it, but it is fascinating. Honestly, until Trump showed up on the scene I really didn't pay much attention to politics outside of elections. This has been the danger of giving power to someone with very poor/broken character. It has been sad to see the Republican party divided.

You can find Abramson on Twitter if you don't have time to read huge 400+ page books.

Also telling to me is that there have been over 60 cases brought by Trump that have been shot down by judges. There simply is no proof of a stolen Biden election.

How is it that the two best prospects to be the leader of our country are two  near 80 year old delusional goofs? 

 

[Summer Wheat]

Seth Abramson has done a lot of good research that actually DOES support claims of Trump's collusion and conspiracy. I don't spend too much time with it, but it is fascinating. Honestly, until Trump showed up on the scene I really didn't pay much attention to politics outside of elections. This has been the danger of giving power to someone with very poor/broken character. It has been sad to see the Republican party divided.

You can find Abramson on Twitter if you don't have time to read huge 400+ page books.

Also telling to me is that there have been over 60 cases brought by Trump that have been shot down by judges. There simply is no proof of a stolen Biden election.

How is it that the two best prospects to be the leader of our country are two  near 80 year old delusional goofs? 

The whole plan was to disrupt anything Trump and the GOP wanted to do. Russiagate took up 2 years. Then we had George Floyd and COVID.  In a way that was a good thing for Dems as Trump would have won again.

 

[Joe Schmo]

That's a perfect illustration.

I bought a Smokey The Bear "Resist" shirt in 2017. It generated entirely predicable responses then from the people you would have expected on both sides.

That shirt today, generates nearly opposite responses from 2017 from the exact same people on both sides.

Entirely predictable. 

The only thing more predictable is the mealy mouthed hypocrisy back pedaling on why "well THIS is different". 

Well that doesn't sound nice. Joe, who in here is mealy mouthed in their hypocrisy that you refer too? Seems most in here are offering sincere thoughts and opinions but apparently you disagree. Do you have examples?

 

[Scooby1974]

The whole plan was to disrupt anything Trump and the GOP wanted to do. Russiagate took up 2 years. Then we had George Floyd and COVID.  In a way that was a good thing for Dems as Trump would have won again.

There was and is a whole lot of fishy business going on overseas. I think the real problem is that many people are just going to support their tribes no matter what because if anyone admits to screwing something up, they will have their noses rubbed it it by the other party.

How refreshing would it be to have government leaders who actually cared about the whole rather than their own special interests?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Well that doesn't sound nice. Joe, who in here is mealy mouthed in their hypocrisy that you refer too? Seems most in here are offering sincere thoughts and opinions but apparently you disagree. Do you have examples?

No. Wasn't referencing a specific post here. Just the "Well, you see, I'm not really hypocritical, because this is different". Plenty also happens outside this forum. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

If this post was made by just about anyone else here I wouldn't think twice about it but coming from you is heartbreaking. 

Stereotyping and extrapolating singular opinions, most often from a social media post of a non-elected official, is the straight from the far right playbook.  It's wrong for them to do it and I'm embarrassed at how many decades I used faithfully absorb it. Worst yet, I believed most of it. 

Off the top of my head look at the Cuomo or Frankin thread.  Look at the dozens of posts from Democrats condemning him and of the opinion he should step down. 

There have also been more than enough threads discussing how posters that normally vote R, didn't the last two elections because of Trump.  I'm one of them. It would be tribalism if I did.  I'll also point to my criticism of Elizabeth Warren last week in that thread. No need to rehash everything buth he has been a horrible person his entire life and even a worse president. 

Is there tribalism? Absolutely. Don't paint people with such a broad brush.  To say this is proof of tribalism by people who don't support Trump isn't accurate. 

Your post, it's the first time I've ever seen it.  I get my news from Google which includes Fox stories.  It was obviously a joke but in extremely poor taste. As to why people aren't here laughing at him I think it's pretty easy, Biden has been a nice guy his whole life.  Trump is a bully with the maturity and vocabulary of a ten year old. It doesn't matter if you are a war heto, disabled or have spent your entire life serving the country.  Then there's that little matter of trying to steal the election and he's STILL sowing discontent. The only time in the history of this country there wasn't a peaceful transfer of power. There's no comparing Trump to Biden or Trump to most any other republicans past or present. 

Biden’s been a nice guy his whole life when the camera is rolling.

How much blood is on that dudes hands?

And before anyone starts , I’m not comparing him to Trump

 

[Snotbubbles]

Off the top of my head look at the Cuomo or Frankin thread.  Look at the dozens of posts from Democrats condemning him and of the opinion he should step down. 

This stuck out to me in your post.

It was the Democrats who wanted to participate in a "guilty until proven innocent" and "due process" only exists in a court of law platform during the Kavanaugh confirmation.  The Democrats changed the landscape on the topic.  From here on out there is no grey area with how they should respond.  They SHOULD condemn all politicians who have merely been ACCUSED of sexual assault with the same veracity they did with Kavanaugh.  Unfortunately, they moved the goalposts when their white knight, Biden was accused.  It went from #BelieveHer to #ListentoHer.  Then the same organizations who went after Kavanaugh, helped Cuomo try and cover his assaults up.      

 

[The General]

Update on Interpreter who helped Biden in 2008

 

[Navin Johnson]

That's a perfect illustration.

I bought a Smokey The Bear "Resist" shirt in 2017. It generated entirely predicable responses then from the people you would have expected on both sides.

That shirt today, generates nearly opposite responses from 2017 from the exact same people on both sides.

Entirely predictable. 

The only thing more predictable is the mealy mouthed hypocrisy back pedaling on why "well THIS is different". 

So transparent

 

[Navin Johnson]

Biden’s been a nice guy his whole life when the camera is rolling.

How much blood is on that dudes hands?

And before anyone starts , I’m not comparing him to Trump

His actions as a senator are exponentially worse than anything he has done since taking the Oval Office.

 

[The General]

That's a perfect illustration.

I bought a Smokey The Bear "Resist" shirt in 2017. It generated entirely predicable responses then from the people you would have expected on both sides.

That shirt today, generates nearly opposite responses from 2017 from the exact same people on both sides.

Entirely predictable. 

The only thing more predictable is the mealy mouthed hypocrisy back pedaling on why "well THIS is different". 

What reactions does your t-shirt get?

 

[Joe Bryant]

What reactions does your t-shirt get?

Exactly as you'd expect.

In 2017, Hillary Clinton voters saw the "Resist" shirt as "YES! Fight for democracy! Don't be sheep. Fight the power!"

In 2017, Donald Trump voters saw the "Resist" shirt as "Uncool. I thought we were Americans first". 

In 2021, the same people see the same message and have the opposite reaction. 

The only thing more predictable is people on both sides saying, "Well yeah, but THIS is different".

 

[The General]

Exactly as you'd expect.

In 2017, Hillary Clinton voters saw the "Resist" shirt as "YES! Fight for democracy! Don't be sheep. Fight the power!"

In 2017, Donald Trump voters saw the "Resist" shirt as "Uncool. I thought we were Americans first". 

In 2021, the same people see the same message and have the opposite reaction. 

The only thing more predictable is people on both sides saying, "Well yeah, but THIS is different".

I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing (although I would have thought your shirt was a joke about Smokey resisting fires).

There are political ideals that people on opposite sides feel should be resisted and our system is meant to handle this. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing (although I would have thought your shirt was a joke about Smokey resisting fires).

There are political ideals that people on opposite sides feel should be resisted and our system is meant to handle this. 

No doubt. The resisting isn't the interesting part to me.

It's how the two sides reacted and completely flip flopped and reversed positions with a different president. 

 

[The General]

No doubt. The resisting isn't the interesting part to me.

It's how the two sides reacted and completely flip flopped and reversed positions with a different president. 

But aren’t they “resisting” the ideas and politics of the person? Hillary and Trump promote different political agendas. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

But aren’t they “resisting” the ideas and politics of the person? Hillary and Trump promote different political agendas. 

No, I'm talking about the idea of resist in general.

I find Trump people today who are all for resisting the government.

But in 2017, actively promoting resisting the government was uncool.

But now it's fine. 

 

[The General]

No, I'm talking about the idea of resist in general.

I find Trump people today who are all for resisting the government.

But in 2017, actively promoting resisting the government was uncool.

But now it's fine. 

They might need to clarify their positions a bit more  

 

[Joe Bryant]

They might need to clarify their positions a bit more  

Mostly it's people struggling with the "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" idea.

We're all susceptible. 

 

[The General]

Mostly it's people struggling with the "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" idea.

We're all susceptible. 

I think it would be more nuanced than this which is normal and not necessarily unhealthy. Ex: resist Trump’s  post election shtick or people against raising taxes.

Or resist fires which well all can rally behind. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think it would be more nuanced than this which is normal and not necessarily unhealthy. Ex: resist Trump’s  post election shtick or people against raising taxes.

Or resist fires which well all can rally behind. 

Sorry I wasn't clear.

My point was:

2017 - Trump voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "That sucks. We should all be Americans".

2021 - Trump voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "Rock on".

2017 - Hillary Clinton voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "Rock on".

2021 - Hillary Clinton voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "That sucks. We should all be Americans".

The one thing they all have in common, they all think THIS is different. 

 

[psychobillies]

Sorry I wasn't clear.

My point was:

2017 - Trump voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "That sucks. We should all be Americans".

2021 - Trump voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "Rock on".

2017 - Hillary Clinton voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "Rock on".

2021 - Hillary Clinton voter seeing a shirt that said "RESIST". Has the response, "That sucks. We should all be Americans".

The one thing they all have in common, they all think THIS is different. 

I bought one of those "Make Orwell Fiction Again" shirts.  I did not buy it in response to any particular party or candidate, but the reaction was the same from people on both sides for very different reasons.  I quit wearing the shirt.

 

[tonydead]

In college I bought a "Just Say No to Bush" t-shirt.  Because back then I was into cute hippie liberal chicks as long as they still shaved their pits and legs.  After she walked away with my $15 it slowly sunk in that I would never be able to wear that shirt for an obvious and zero to do with politics reason.  

 

[E Street Brat]

Listened to a good podcast yesterday from Jocko and Darryl Cooper. They are what I consider two of the preeminent podcasters out there today and they team to discuss  issues on the Unravelling. Their latest Unmitigated Disaster discusses the Afghan withdrawal. One of the more interesting things that came up were a string of text messages between a stateside Marine and some of the guys on the ground in Kabul right before the suicide bomb. They were discussing the countdown intelligence was sending them on when to expect the bomb to go off. They were an hour off but the string of texts was news to me and just another disappointing story in this debacle.

https://www.survivethenews.com/new-text-messages-reveal-2nd-bn-1st-marines-were-given-a-countdown-before-kabul-airport-bombing-it-started-about-two-hours-out-they-are-now-being-silenced/

I really like these two. Been a big fan of Martyrmade fore a long time. 

This made me so effin angry. . 

 

[John123]

Bump.  Unbelievable that we still have Americans being held hostage in a hostile foreign country and it's not the first and biggest story on every newscast. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yk56BqGH-tjsErcWaiLlGEaHoB3Y1sie/view

 

[tonydead]

Bump.  Unbelievable that we still have Americans being held hostage in a hostile foreign country and it's not the first and biggest story on every newscast. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yk56BqGH-tjsErcWaiLlGEaHoB3Y1sie/view

I still care. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

6,000 Veterans commit Suicide each year - 17.6 per day. PTSD from this war is the number one cause rn.

The Detroit Lions honored SrA Joshua Reinwasser 10/26/1995 - 11/11/18 yesterday by wearing a decal with the initials JR on the back of their helmet. Joshua was a lifelong lions fan who unfortunately was lost to suicide on 11/11/18 (yup, Veterans Day), while in service of the United States Air Force. Jared Goff provided my the family a helmet to take home.

As a combat veteran, I appreciate gestures like this. As an American combat veteran I’d appreciate it more if we didn’t subject men and women to the horrors of war on a regular, ongoing basis.

According to Wikipedia, the U.S. has sent servicemen to 27 armed conflicts since we left Saigon in 1975. It’s a seemingly endless cycle.

 

[Insein]

Pentagon investigates itself on Kabul drone strike. Finds it did nothing wrong

Guess that clears that up then. 

 

[John123]

Pentagon investigates itself on Kabul drone strike. Finds it did nothing wrong

Guess that clears that up then. 

Well, you know, other than killing a bunch of friendlies and not touching the intended target, they did nothing wrong. 

Oh, and still hundreds of Americans being held hostage in Afghanistan that this administration is doing little to nothing to help despite Biden pledging that every American who wants out would get out.

 

[Insein]

Well, you know, other than killing a bunch of friendlies and not touching the intended target, they did nothing wrong. 

Oh, and still hundreds of Americans being held hostage in Afghanistan that this administration is doing little to nothing to help despite Biden pledging that every American who wants out would get out.

Come on man. That was like months ago. Pentagon gave themselves a gold star for this operation. It's all good. 

 

[Godsbrother]

Well, you know, other than killing a bunch of friendlies and not touching the intended target, they did nothing wrong. 

Oh, and still hundreds of Americans being held hostage in Afghanistan that this administration is doing little to nothing to help despite Biden pledging that every American who wants out would get out.

I believe the state department has put the number between 100 and 200 but I don't think we really know how many Americans are still in Afghanistan and want to leave. 

I have no idea what the US government is doing to get them out, it may be little to nothing as you say, but how do we really know what is going on behind the scenes?  Hopefully they are back home soon.

I agree the withdrawal was botched and botched badly by Biden but I am glad the US military is out of there.  We should never have gone there to begin with and staying there for 20 years is inexcusable. 

This goes beyond politics.

 

[Max Power]

Pentagon investigates itself on Kabul drone strike. Finds it did nothing wrong

Guess that clears that up then. 

From the back end this was the 2nd most extensive investigation I've ever been a part of. 

Bottomline is we've always played it slightly faster and looser than we should with strikes.  This was a situation where the decision makers deemed it acceptable to play even faster and looser as a dynamic situation unfolded.  

It was a bad strike and we may or may not change our proceedures.  There are some recommended changes, but they aren't practical and in reality were not contributing factors to conducting the strike. 

The government are experts in providing themselves plausible deniability. This is more of the same.  The public is over it already.

 

[John123]

I believe the state department has put the number between 100 and 200 but I don't think we really know how many Americans are still in Afghanistan and want to leave. 

I have no idea what the US government is doing to get them out, it may be little to nothing as you say, but how do we really know what is going on behind the scenes?  Hopefully they are back home soon.

I agree the withdrawal was botched and botched badly by Biden but I am glad the US military is out of there.  We should never have gone there to begin with and staying there for 20 years is inexcusable. 

This goes beyond politics.

1)  You can be sure that whatever number the state dept. is releasing the actual number is higher.  Remember, they originally said it was 100 people and, AFTER some had gotten out, the number still went UP.

2)  I don't care that much about whether we are there or not.  Actually, that's not 100% true.  All indications are that Biden was told we should leave 2500 troops there for stability reasons and to maintain an intelligence presence in the region.  Now, we have none of that.  But I don't really want to get in to that.  What I am 100% convinced of is that if you do leave, you don't pull out your military BEFORE your civilians.  That's like war 101.  And I'm convinced that was Biden's call.  I hold him individually 100% responsible for this debacle.  There is no way his military, with all the experience and knowledge they have, suggested pulling the military before our civilians.  This was 100% preventable and never should have happened.

3)  If we wanted our civilians out they'd be out.  This is Afghanistan, not China.  All we have to do is say we're coming in and getting our civilians and you're not stopping us. 

4)  If Trump had left 100's-1000's of civilians behind in a country during his administration he would have been impeached and the MSM would be leading with that story in perpetuity.  It's disgusting that this has been swept under the rug while Americans are still in harms way.

 

[The General]

From the back end this was the 2nd most extensive investigation I've ever been a part of. 

Bottomline is we've always played it slightly faster and looser than we should with strikes.  This was a situation where the decision makers deemed it acceptable to play even faster and looser as a dynamic situation unfolded.  

It was a bad strike and we may or may not change our proceedures.  There are some recommended changes, but they aren't practical and in reality were not contributing factors to conducting the strike. 

The government are experts in providing themselves plausible deniability. This is more of the same.  The public is over it already.

All involved are to blame for creating a pressure cooker. Mistakes will be made in these scenarios. Terrible story.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Every US citizen who wants out of Afghanistan offered departure, State Department says LINK

"But not all of them are out yet, and more could ask for help soon."