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The Wheel of Time - Books only (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter beer 30
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beer 30
Footballguy
:slowgolfclap:
I however, will never re-read this monstrosity. I'm 57, on book 5, hoping to finish the series before I die.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
Understood. I started this in my 30's and have done 3 full re-reads. At close to 60 now, there's just not enough time in my life to invest that way anymore. Currently on my 2nd audio book go round and that will have to do.
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Maggot Brain
Footballguy
I though I was a fan, but wow are there some serious fantasy youtubers dedicating some major hours to this thing. It's overkill in my opinion, but harmless-similar to Trekkies I suppose. I just found out that there's a Jordan Con with cos play, as well.
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beer 30
Footballguy
In hindsight, I should have went the audio book route. Just didn't appreciate the slog that this series is even though you all warned me numerous times. Don't get me wrong, I'm digging it and plan to finish but it's an uphill march right now.
PIK95
Footballguy
Just finished the Crown of Swords (book 7?), and I was disappointed in the ending. I expect Sammael is hiding, but the ending felt really rushed. I started Daggers, and it seems like the author just wanted to transition to some more new character action in this book.
I like the series, but he is not so great at developing a nice flow. Even the way the chapters come and go doesn't make much sense. Maybe I was just spoiled by G.O.T. in that area. I find myself bored and confused with all of the similar character names, and needless characters. Mix in an unnamed soldier occasionally. That is all.
I like the series, but he is not so great at developing a nice flow. Even the way the chapters come and go doesn't make much sense. Maybe I was just spoiled by G.O.T. in that area. I find myself bored and confused with all of the similar character names, and needless characters. Mix in an unnamed soldier occasionally. That is all.
PIK95
Footballguy
My Kindle says I am 5.5 hours from the end of A Memory of Light. It's been fun. I really enjoyed the series, especially the last six or so. I am gonna do a reread as soon as I finish. I give it an A overall so far. Matt is by far my favorite character. He reminds me of myself in many ways. 
I hope he gets a good ending.
I hope he gets a good ending.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
I started reading these back when they were released, through about book 7. Never went back to them. Kids and I enjoyed the first season of the TV show, so I'm starting from scratch. Finished the first three. Hoping we'll get more of the Seanchan both in the books and the TV series.
Same here. I have the paperback of the first and hard cover of the next five that i got at Border's back in the day. They were an every other x-mas present to myself. Waiting that long between volumes meant a an almost thorough reread each time and i finally bailed cuz life and attention span. Did enjoy Jordan's writing and was immersed in the world, characters and story but Jordan liked to throw in **** all the time and it got dizzying to keep up after a couple of years. I will say much of what I read stuck with me til this day so can understand and appreciate those that stuck it out. I may have to try a straight through reread.
Love the Seachan as well, hope they play a big part going forward.
Sand
Footballguy
Up to book 4. Takes a while to get through them. I tend to go walking with the dogs and listen - a nice 2 hours a pop. Or my wife comes and I get 2 hours of conversation and domestic planning.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Now almost halfway through book 13. Really enjoying it. Of the main characters, I probably enjoy Mat and Egwene the most.
Sanderson seems to jump between scenes more quickly than Jordan did. That could be his style or it could have been Jordan's intent as the conclusion approached anyway.
The Gator
Footballguy
I enjoyed the Sanderson books, they seem to flow better. He also (iirc) introduces one of my favorite characters in Talmanes.
brun
Footballguy
Just started 6. I generally have 3-4 books going on kindle most of the time. So, I move in and out of the series as the wheels wills.
GregR
Footballguy
So after burning through most of the other content on my Kindle coming out of the end of last year, I started a Wheel of Time re-read. Currently up to book 7 and still going pretty strong. My skills at skimming through unnecessarily long descriptions quickly hit midseason form.
PIK95
Footballguy
I am on my reread still. Not even sure what book I'm on. Perrin just met the Dragon Prophet and is attempting to bring him back to Rand. Im moving pretty fast now.
Rand al Thor
Footballguy
Man, those first couple of books were something special. I literally couldn't tell you how it ends, but I do remember being satisfied with how Sanderson wrapped it up. The horrors of the middle passage (books 6 - 11) were so bad that I can't blame anybody for not making it all the way through.
PIK95
Footballguy
I liked them all pretty equal fwiw. I liked the Matt stuff best, then the girls. Rand and Perrins arcs were a bit boring at times. Min also.
PIK95
Footballguy
I'm not watching that.
GregR
Footballguy
Reread hit the halfway point of book 9, Winter's Heart.
Good stuff. Matt and Tylin. Aludra and bellfounders. Valen Luca second appearance. Tuon first appearance on her ship.
Elayne, Kin and Windfinders in Caemlyn. Becoming first sisters. Rebel nobles.
Sevanna and the Shaido. Galina and the Oath Rod. Faile, Alliandre and Morgase. Masema.
Rand collecting Nynaeve for the Choedan Kal. Though Far Madding still needs to happen first.
Other than Tarmon Gai'don itself, I think the Choedan Kal is maybe the most epic moment in the books, so have been looking forward to it. With Falme and the Eye of the World both getting respectable nods but a little behind it.
Also, I had forgotten details of the latter parts of Verin's story arc. But just read a very minor moment with Sorilea, but one that brought memories of it rushing back. That's definitely a favorite stretch too, though I think that isn't until the Sanderson finale books.
Good stuff. Matt and Tylin. Aludra and bellfounders. Valen Luca second appearance. Tuon first appearance on her ship.
Elayne, Kin and Windfinders in Caemlyn. Becoming first sisters. Rebel nobles.
Sevanna and the Shaido. Galina and the Oath Rod. Faile, Alliandre and Morgase. Masema.
Rand collecting Nynaeve for the Choedan Kal. Though Far Madding still needs to happen first.
Other than Tarmon Gai'don itself, I think the Choedan Kal is maybe the most epic moment in the books, so have been looking forward to it. With Falme and the Eye of the World both getting respectable nods but a little behind it.
Also, I had forgotten details of the latter parts of Verin's story arc. But just read a very minor moment with Sorilea, but one that brought memories of it rushing back. That's definitely a favorite stretch too, though I think that isn't until the Sanderson finale books.
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GregR
Footballguy
It's kind of funny to me, watching the TV show, because I never in my head pronounced things with the Celtic style pronunciation that Jordan intended and that the TV show uses. I just did phonetic English. To me damane was "dah-main" not "dah-mah-nee", etc. Seanchan were "See-an-chan" not "Shawn-chen".
But the one thing I pronounced the trailing E in my head was Falme which I pronounced Falm-ee. And they pronounce it Falm in the show. Make up your damn minds!!
But the one thing I pronounced the trailing E in my head was Falme which I pronounced Falm-ee. And they pronounce it Falm in the show. Make up your damn minds!!
The Gator
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
YES!!!It's kind of funny to me, watching the TV show, because I never in my head pronounced things with the Celtic style pronunciation that Jordan intended and that the TV show uses. I just did phonetic English. To me damane was "dah-main" not "dah-mah-nee", etc. Seanchan were "See-an-chan" not "Shawn-chen".
But the one thing I pronounced the trailing E in my head was Falme which I pronounced Falm-ee. And they pronounce it Falm in the show. Make up your damn minds!!
I got the damane becasue I own a Trek Domane bike and that's how it's pronouned do-man-ee.
The Shawn-chen and Falm thing really messes with my mind.
GregR
Footballguy
TV show episode 7 comment
So I wonder if the potion thing from Ishamael is meant to take the place of Mat going through the second redstone arch. He's supposedly "seeing his past lives" so maybe that's where the knowledge that fills in the holes in his memory will come from? Admittedly I'm not watching the show very closely when I do watch it, but I don't know how much he's mentioned the holes in his memory?
The Gator
Footballguy
I thought that too, but then when it happened i was pretty meh about it. "all your past lives" never really led to anything imo. Hope he still goes into the arch.
GregR
Footballguy
Yeah I hope he does too. He did see that past life of himself hanging from a rope, so that seemed like another thing leaning towards the potion will be cause of the memories.
I'm also wondering if Min and Mat are going to be romantically linked, and Perrin and Aviendha. I honestly can't blame Amazon if they are reluctant about having full on polyamory. I don't know how well that would go over with a TV audience.
PIK95
Footballguy
My reading came to a screeching halt since my son went to college a month ago. My attention span is worse than ever. I have been on the beginning of Winters Heart that whole time. I think this is my third reread on this series. I gotta get moving.
I still don't know how I feel about my favorite character (Matt) essentially marrying "Monsieur" Calvin J. Candie from Django fwiw. I really wish that went another way in the end. Still love the series.
GregR
Footballguy
Well, posting here to not ruin the TV show for non-book readers. Which I think was the intent, not that it be a place only the books can be discussed.
The Gator
Footballguy
Just finished Lord of Chaos and onto Crown of Swords.
Kneel, or be knelt. Never get tired of that line/scene
The Duff Man
Footballguy
There was definitely some stuff that was silly or didn’t make sense, but overall they got to where they needed to at the end of season 2. Good episode.
Nattily_Attired
Footballguy
I thought they were really poorly written. Nynaeve tugs at her braid every third page. Would have been an incredible trilogy, but he wanted to make as much money as possible. C’mon, 14 books? It was a brilliant concept for a story, I just hated the way he wrote and hated that there appeared to be no ending (I bailed around book 7).
The Gator
Footballguy
Really liked that. Weakest point for me was Rand walking through Ishamial and there was no fight between them.
Overall, really liked this season. I wonder how good the first season would have been if not for covid messing up filming/production.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Why do you blame COVID for how bad season 1 was? Did it force them to use those writers and showrunner(s)?
The Gator
Footballguy
I did not blame it all on covid, there was more to it being bad than that. However, covid restrictions definitely effected the production and post-production.
kupcho1
Footballguy
How did it effect production and post-production?
GregR
Footballguy
The season 2 finale was bad. The same issues the series has a whole, but extra ones where it wasn't even consistent with the version of the world the TV show created. It'll put my comments in a spoiler for those who don't want to hear it, or before seeing the episode.
So in this episode we had:
* Egwene putting the collar on Renna. If she thought it could be used to hurt Renna, the adam wouldn't allow her to do that. The only way to touch the pitcher was to absolutely convince herself she wouldn't use it to harm the one holding her leash. She absolutely planned to harm her with the adam.
* Egwene, while collared, channeled to attack Renna and lift her onto the hook. It's impossible for someone leashed with an adam to channel without the suldam's permission. That Renna couldn't hit Egwene showed that the adam still works even when they are mutually leashed by the other. Even if Egwene could channel, which the TV show's version says she can't... she wouldn't have been able to lift Renna onto the hook to choke her because that would be harming her leash holder. See above point about the pitcher and how they just showed that is still in effect.
* Moiraine broke the third Oath ("Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai."). She used the power to attack a boat full of damane at least a half mile distant, who were not even aware she was there so there is no argument that can be made doing so was in the last extreme defense of her life or Lan's. While there were some Seanchan soldiers attacking on the beach that Lan dealt with, she could only use the power as a weapon on them, not on the damane on the boat.
I guess I should assume they ignore the book part that no one but other Aes Sedai can see a weave, with the TV show's special effects. So Suroth seeing Moiraine's weave coming at the boat that would be impossible in the books could at least happen in the TV show if so, but I'm going to point it out, because this TV show pisses me off.
The conclusion with Ishamael was utterly anticlimactic. To the point of stupidity. Ishamael has been bombarding them with the power CONTINUOUSLY the last 10 minutes. And the moment Rand steps forward from behind the shield where he could be hurt by it, Ishamael just stops his assault. And stands there to be killed.
The conclusion with Turak was similarly anticlimactic. Why even use the line about testing a heron-sword wielder if Rand is just going to wipe him out with the power?
Ingtar. Argh I want to strangle the writers. Ingtar is such a good story in the book. My friend who hasn't read the books who I've been watching each episode with, accidentally read online that Ingtar is a Darkfriend. I was expecting even though they really did nothing to make his story clear, that since they had House Shinowa's sigil seen at Ishamael's meeting of Darkfriends (where Padan Fain and the Tinker woman and child were at), they they were going to at least work it in even if it was being poorly told by not showing Ingtar's obsession with the Horn sufficiently. But nope they didn't even really do that.
The whole comment about one person holding 50 was completely pointless. Not only wasn't it a particularly narrow point, but Ingtar didn't even stay in the narrow part, he jumped out into a big intersection where he could easily be surrounded and where one person could not hold 50. In fact he held about ten before he died if we're generous that every swing of his sword that landed, killed. And they had room they could have just run around him while others fought.
I told my friend Ingtar's whole story from the book after the episode was done, why he had turned to the Shadow because he felt the other nations had left Shienar to die to the Blight, how he was chasing the Horn to walk again in the Light but that he realized (because of Hurin if I remember right) that he'd been seeking glory when the prophecy said it should only be sounded by one seeking salvation. And then him asking Rand if it's true what they say, that no one can walk in the Shadow so long that they can't turn back to the Light, and Rand realizes then that Ingtar has been a Darkfriend. And then Ingtar sacrificing himself for the rest, and them leaving and hearing his battle cry behind them. And my friend got upset they ruined such a great story by not even bothering to tell it, making the whole presence of Ingtar in the show pointless. She then asked about the House Shinowa sigil and I told her I don't know what the TV show intends. That Masema wasn't a Darkfriend in the book but he does have issues but maybe that's who they'll say was at Ishamael's meeting.
Well I then proceeded to tell her basically the gist of the book 2 plot. That Nynaeve and Elayne free Egwene, and she's free of the adam when she puts it on Renna because she'd figured out Renna was someone who could be taught to channel. That Rand got engulfed in the fog from the Horn and when he fought Ishamael, it was in the sky overhead where everyone could see. And how he looked down and realized the battle against the Seanchan was mirroring his success and failure against Ishamael. Explained about Lan telling Rand back in Shienar about Sheathing the Sword, and how he looked down and saw Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne fighting the Seanchan in the streets trying to make it to Bayle Domon's ship, and to save Egwene is why he takes the wound in his side.
Yeah, her take was just hearing me tell it, it was a much better version than what they did on TV. But that's been the case consistently through the show.
I also explained Mat's situation in the books, even jumped ahead and explained the Book 4 stuff for him with the two redstone doorways and how he gets the ashenderei and gets hanged, and how they look like they will be using the dagger tied to a staff in place of the ashenderei. Told her his three 'wishes' and explained about the holes in his memory getting filled which she thought would have been cool to have, and about his luck which he had even before the doorways which seems to be his 'power' in the way that Perrin has the Wolfbrother stuff.
Anyway, just utterly disappointing. I mean the entire series has been one giant "why did you rewrite that part of the story when the original was so much better than what you came up with?". But at least they could have stayed internally consistent. The moment Egwene was doing that stuff the adam wouldn't allow, and Moiraine used the power to attack, my non-book friend was jumping all over them for it before I said anything.
* Egwene putting the collar on Renna. If she thought it could be used to hurt Renna, the adam wouldn't allow her to do that. The only way to touch the pitcher was to absolutely convince herself she wouldn't use it to harm the one holding her leash. She absolutely planned to harm her with the adam.
* Egwene, while collared, channeled to attack Renna and lift her onto the hook. It's impossible for someone leashed with an adam to channel without the suldam's permission. That Renna couldn't hit Egwene showed that the adam still works even when they are mutually leashed by the other. Even if Egwene could channel, which the TV show's version says she can't... she wouldn't have been able to lift Renna onto the hook to choke her because that would be harming her leash holder. See above point about the pitcher and how they just showed that is still in effect.
* Moiraine broke the third Oath ("Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai."). She used the power to attack a boat full of damane at least a half mile distant, who were not even aware she was there so there is no argument that can be made doing so was in the last extreme defense of her life or Lan's. While there were some Seanchan soldiers attacking on the beach that Lan dealt with, she could only use the power as a weapon on them, not on the damane on the boat.
I guess I should assume they ignore the book part that no one but other Aes Sedai can see a weave, with the TV show's special effects. So Suroth seeing Moiraine's weave coming at the boat that would be impossible in the books could at least happen in the TV show if so, but I'm going to point it out, because this TV show pisses me off.
The conclusion with Ishamael was utterly anticlimactic. To the point of stupidity. Ishamael has been bombarding them with the power CONTINUOUSLY the last 10 minutes. And the moment Rand steps forward from behind the shield where he could be hurt by it, Ishamael just stops his assault. And stands there to be killed.
The conclusion with Turak was similarly anticlimactic. Why even use the line about testing a heron-sword wielder if Rand is just going to wipe him out with the power?
Ingtar. Argh I want to strangle the writers. Ingtar is such a good story in the book. My friend who hasn't read the books who I've been watching each episode with, accidentally read online that Ingtar is a Darkfriend. I was expecting even though they really did nothing to make his story clear, that since they had House Shinowa's sigil seen at Ishamael's meeting of Darkfriends (where Padan Fain and the Tinker woman and child were at), they they were going to at least work it in even if it was being poorly told by not showing Ingtar's obsession with the Horn sufficiently. But nope they didn't even really do that.
The whole comment about one person holding 50 was completely pointless. Not only wasn't it a particularly narrow point, but Ingtar didn't even stay in the narrow part, he jumped out into a big intersection where he could easily be surrounded and where one person could not hold 50. In fact he held about ten before he died if we're generous that every swing of his sword that landed, killed. And they had room they could have just run around him while others fought.
I told my friend Ingtar's whole story from the book after the episode was done, why he had turned to the Shadow because he felt the other nations had left Shienar to die to the Blight, how he was chasing the Horn to walk again in the Light but that he realized (because of Hurin if I remember right) that he'd been seeking glory when the prophecy said it should only be sounded by one seeking salvation. And then him asking Rand if it's true what they say, that no one can walk in the Shadow so long that they can't turn back to the Light, and Rand realizes then that Ingtar has been a Darkfriend. And then Ingtar sacrificing himself for the rest, and them leaving and hearing his battle cry behind them. And my friend got upset they ruined such a great story by not even bothering to tell it, making the whole presence of Ingtar in the show pointless. She then asked about the House Shinowa sigil and I told her I don't know what the TV show intends. That Masema wasn't a Darkfriend in the book but he does have issues but maybe that's who they'll say was at Ishamael's meeting.
Well I then proceeded to tell her basically the gist of the book 2 plot. That Nynaeve and Elayne free Egwene, and she's free of the adam when she puts it on Renna because she'd figured out Renna was someone who could be taught to channel. That Rand got engulfed in the fog from the Horn and when he fought Ishamael, it was in the sky overhead where everyone could see. And how he looked down and realized the battle against the Seanchan was mirroring his success and failure against Ishamael. Explained about Lan telling Rand back in Shienar about Sheathing the Sword, and how he looked down and saw Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne fighting the Seanchan in the streets trying to make it to Bayle Domon's ship, and to save Egwene is why he takes the wound in his side.
Yeah, her take was just hearing me tell it, it was a much better version than what they did on TV. But that's been the case consistently through the show.
I also explained Mat's situation in the books, even jumped ahead and explained the Book 4 stuff for him with the two redstone doorways and how he gets the ashenderei and gets hanged, and how they look like they will be using the dagger tied to a staff in place of the ashenderei. Told her his three 'wishes' and explained about the holes in his memory getting filled which she thought would have been cool to have, and about his luck which he had even before the doorways which seems to be his 'power' in the way that Perrin has the Wolfbrother stuff.
Anyway, just utterly disappointing. I mean the entire series has been one giant "why did you rewrite that part of the story when the original was so much better than what you came up with?". But at least they could have stayed internally consistent. The moment Egwene was doing that stuff the adam wouldn't allow, and Moiraine used the power to attack, my non-book friend was jumping all over them for it before I said anything.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It's not a good show @GregR. I don't know how long I'll stick with it, but I've definitely given up on comparing it to the books. That will just make you frustrated. I gave up on the "Foundation" show completely for a similar reason - though that one's even worse than this, they just took the name of the series and some of the characters in that one and have gone on to tell some other slightly Asimov flavored story they feel like telling, with incredibly bad writing to boot. That one makes this look like a super faithful rendition.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I haven't watched season 2 of Foundation yet. Foundation straying from the books (in season 1) bothered me a lot less than Wheel of Time. Wheel of Time drives me nuts with the straying for no good reason.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I can see that. Still, at least this one hasn't swapped the genders of half the main characters to engage in forced, hamfisted "character development" daytime soap opera level drama that has nothing to do with the original story. I probably should have taken this to another thread though, sorry for bringing that into this. It just seems like a problem common to a lot of big budget shows attempting to trade on recognizable names instead of having the guts to tell whatever lousy story it is they want to tell and letting it fail on its own merit.
GregR
Footballguy
Yeah I haven't read, or seen, Foundation. I just tears my heart out that they finally made a show and... it's what people have said. That they are changing things without a good reason, and the result not being better than what was already there.
Ingtar is a great example of what upsets me. They could have worked in his story with about 30-40 extra seconds of screen time is all it would have taken. A few comments showing the depth of his obsession on finding the Horn, which could have been done in existing scenes they had. Someone mentioning the prophecy with the horn that the blower be seeking salvation not glory there near the end. Loial would have been perfect, he'd know the prophecies. And then use the existing scene in Falme, just have it actually take place in a narrow spot and have him make his statement to Perrin that makes it clear he was a Darkfriend. It would have been so simple to include.
Ingtar is a great example of what upsets me. They could have worked in his story with about 30-40 extra seconds of screen time is all it would have taken. A few comments showing the depth of his obsession on finding the Horn, which could have been done in existing scenes they had. Someone mentioning the prophecy with the horn that the blower be seeking salvation not glory there near the end. Loial would have been perfect, he'd know the prophecies. And then use the existing scene in Falme, just have it actually take place in a narrow spot and have him make his statement to Perrin that makes it clear he was a Darkfriend. It would have been so simple to include.
The Gator
Footballguy
As soon as he died I was disappointed. I was hoping they'd do something with that like you mention in your spoiler. That did bum me out a bit lol
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Egwene was ridiculous for sure. And it would have been very very easy to stick to the book version of how she was freed.
