This Dad Needs Some Help (1 Viewer)

[jobarules]

We have gone with "dingus".  Same meaning but a little more unique...hahaha

Numbskull is my goto

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I also think way too much is made of going to the "right" college. I guess there's something to be said for tapping into a good alumni network, but as far as the education goes I don't know that there's too much of a difference. The exception to that would be medical school, I suppose. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I know you don't know me well enough to know and I hope this doesn't sound too preachy but I'll risk it anyway.

A fathers words have incredible power. I'm guessing way more than many fathers know. 

I've seen it first hand. 

I KNOW folks here are joking about the "idiot" stuff. But I'd urge you to never say those words. Even on a fake football message board. 

There is something sacred about how we talk about our children. In many churches, part of a baptismal ceremony begins with "Father, name your child". I think regardless of ones spiritual feelings though, how we talk and think about our children is so important. 

They'll get plenty of people telling them they're idiots during their life. But part of that "being for them" thing is them knowing you have their back no matter what. Even when they ACT like an idiot. 

I hope that doesn't sound wrong. The fact that you guys are discussing it here tells me you're a good dad. 

This is just something I've seen in the past and I feel strongly about it. 

Rock on.

 

[El Floppo]

I know you don't know me well enough to know and I hope this doesn't sound too preachy but I'll risk it anyway.

A fathers words have incredible power. I'm guessing way more than many fathers know. 

I've seen it first hand. 

I KNOW folks here are joking about the "idiot" stuff. But I'd urge you to never say those words. Even on a fake football message board. 

There is something sacred about how we talk about our children. In many churches, part of a baptismal ceremony begins with "Father, name your child". I think regardless of ones spiritual feelings though, how we talk and think about our children is so important. 

They'll get plenty of people telling them they're idiots during their life. But part of that "being for them" thing is them knowing you have their back no matter what. Even when they ACT like an idiot. 

I hope that doesn't sound wrong. The fact that you guys are discussing it here tells me you're a good dad. 

This is just something I've seen in the past and I feel strongly about it. 

Rock on.

So "Moron" is out?



Need a new name for my son 

 

[thecatch]

We have an older kid who loves money. She loves money so much that we offered to pay her for A's at $50 per A, a bonus $250 if she got all A's. 

I was going to suggest an incentive-based approach too rather than a consequences-based one ("you won't be able to get into a good school," etc).  I was kind of a lazy kid too, and my grades substantially improved once my parents gave me some financial incentive to get As.  Maybe it's not money for your kid, but you can try putting some sort of carrot out there.

 

[tri-man 47]

So "Moron" is out?



Need a new name for my son 

I see that "Moron" is Spanish for "small hill."  To build your son's esteem, you should refer to him as a "big moron."  HTH

 

[Drunken knight]

Disagree. If a lack of effort resulted in a lower grade, I'd address that.

Sure, a B isn't a bad grade if that's the natural result of him doing his best. The grade letter itself isn't the issue. Sounds like he didn't really try his best. That would be a big (huge) deal in my house.

similar for us with our 15 yr old daughter (sophomore). We accept any grade when we know the effort is there.  
 

The motivation has to come from them.  They need to want to do it.  Our daughter cares about her grades and had her revelation last year when she procrastinated on a few assignments, then became overwhelmed.  She  has corrected it.

cd- maybe sports analogies of leaving points on the table and allowing an opponent back in a game? Or just instilling the potential magnitude of lost or capitalized opportunities?

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Not sure what to do at this point except just take the computer away entirely but "I need it for school!"

Take it out of his room, maybe?  It's harder to goof off when you guys are right there.

I would portion it out as x minutes of study, y minutes of fun time rather than all study.  

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

And what's wrong with a B in gym?  I'd have gotten an F if I could.  I loathed it.  Might have been in part due to the horrible outfit we had to wear for it.  Let's just say the 70's were not clothing-friendly.  Or natural fiber friendly.

(Also, I couldn't really see to play the games involved.  The only thing I did well was b-ball free throws.)

 

[BeTheMatch]

And what's wrong with a B in gym?  I'd have gotten an F if I could.  I loathed it.  Might have been in part due to the horrible outfit we had to wear for it.  Let's just say the 70's were not clothing-friendly.  Or natural fiber friendly.

(Also, I couldn't really see to play the games involved.  The only thing I did well was b-ball free throws.)

For what passes as gym class today, a B is definitely unacceptable.

 

[Hankmoody]

So, I have a 16 year old teenager who is a really good kid. Respectful, plays on the high school soccer team - just a good kid overall. Has made good grades all the way through his freshman year. He is now a sophomore. If you look at his report card he's making two A's, three B's, and a C. 

He just finished up his first semester finals. From all accounts he studied for his finals. Told us he was studying. Was bunkered in his room studying. 

Got an F on his math final, a C on a history final, and a B on his gym final. B in Gym? What the hell.  Other finals were fine. 

So in our house, an F at any time is unacceptable. Math is certainly not his best subject, and he is making a C in that class.  I'm ok with the C in the class so I would expect his final to be in the C range if he's trying his best.

For the history class, it's an AP class and he is making a B in that class, so I would expect his final to be in the B range. Getting a C is certainly not terrible, but to me still not acceptable.

For the gym class, a B on a final is unacceptable. He has an easy A in this class and clearly blew off the final.

So yesterday we have this discussion. My wife is more of a gentle type and my style is more direct. Not dickish, but more of a "let's figure out what's going on so it doesn't repeat itself because classes are going to get harder as you move forward and into college."

But his response is basically: "well, I'm still getting a good overall grade in the class. what's the big deal?"

And this is when I start to get pissed. I explain that NO FINAL should be getting blown off and the final is where you have to shine because when you get into college your final could end up being a huge portion of your grade.  

And this is where we clash. And where I need your help. I don't know how to get him to understand the importance of tests. And finals. 

He's a pretty laid back kid in general, and this is what worries me. He's the type of kid that will do the bare minimum of what's asked of him. And he thinks he's cool because his overall grade card looks fine. But bubbling under the surface is this character trait that I can see could be a problem down the road.

We've already told him he's getting a math tutor for the second semester, which he as agreed to. We've explained that math is one of those subjects that builds upon itself, so we need to nip this in the bud right now.

But how do I communicate the importance of all of this to him? Leave it to my wife, who is more gentle about it? Have someone else do it? At no time am I degrading or disrepectful to him during any of our communications.

I also know he's a teenager, so there is going to be that natural butting of heads. But I'm at a loss of what to do. 

Thanks for any help. 

In as non-dickish a way possible, the answer here is "he's a teenager". 

I remember clearly having these kinds of idiot moments during my teens and my mom would do the typical "what were you thinking" and I would do the typical "I don't know" and she'd scoff at my response and ground me that would be the end of the conversation.

BUT.               I vividly remember self-talking after the fact and saying "holy #### man, I really don't know what I was thinking - how is that possible?  I mean sometimes I do things because they are fun and I don't give a rat's ### about the consequences, sometimes I do things just to piss people off - but how the HELL can I actually not know what I was thinking?".  I literally couldn't remember how I made those decisions.  And that terrified me.  I thought something was wrong with me and I didn't know how to solve it.  And then of course a little hottie would walk by and shake her booty and all those thoughts were gone for a while and I wasn't scared until the next time it happened.

I had a golf buddy that was a child psychiatrist that testified a lot about the influences one might have been under during stress - occasionally in criminal proceedings but a lot more in family or custody scenarios.  (Paraphrasing) Teens' brains are not fully developed and as they grow the synapses and neural pathways are always changing. It was fascinating having beers with him and listening to him talk about it, and it was during these times I had the epiphany that that's probably what I was going through and it's probably way more natural than I realized.  He'd say in as non-hateful a way possible "teenagers are insane, legally speaking" and it's because of this ever-changing growth process.

A good kid is a good kid, and we all know what they look like.  I think the most important thing you can do is stay honest with him, make sure he knows you love and accept him unconditionally, and that no matter what he does he can always come to you for help getting out of it.  I trusted my parents with the first part fully, but I never had the guts to include them in my problem-solving and that made for some hard lessons - harder than they had to be for sure.

 

[Mister CIA]

Is this the thread where I complain about my 25-year-old daughter spending $400-500/month on Door Dash deliveries?  I'm prepping a dad-intervention - "Today we are going to talk about compound interest, a lot."

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Haven't read the other responses yet. I'll do so when I'm not 2 bourbons in, but I have this to offer....

This is classic lazy teenage boy syndrome. I have an almost-17 yo son, so I feel this so much. LTBS affects most (not all, but most) teenage boys, IMO. Of course, all teenagers are know-it-alls, but boys in particular add in the extra element of lazy. 

My son made "straight A's" all the way up to 7th grade. C's and D's, in math in particular. Well, that's because at his school, that's when algebra is introduced. It takes a little more effort than just memorizing math facts. Grades were mediocre from then thru freshman year (currently a sophomore) and I, being a single parent, let it slide thinking he would get it together on his own. He didn't. I know he was capable of better. So did he. We talked about this several times. But grades remained meh. But then I finally struck a nerve...

Less than a month ago, I had a serious dad-to-son roughly hour-long sit down with him. About one thing. Effort. It really boils down to that alone. I told him that I don't care if you are a ditch digger, a trash guy, a truck driver, a doctor, a lawyer, a YouTube influencer, or anything else you can name. All that matters is the amount of effort that YOU put into it. You'll have a job one day and the amount of effort you put into that job will determine how well you do at it, how your bosses treat you, how your co-workers treat you, and a myriad of other things. Almost every single thing in your life comes down to how much effort you put forth. Including school, which is basically your "job" for now. I told him to start putting forth effort and see if your teachers don't treat you a little differently.

He didn't say much. But he listened. How do I know? Because this past week, he brought home THREE 100's in classes he was struggling in. He told me two of his teachers had commended him on his good grades and one recommended him for "most improved student."  He didn't say "thank you" but I could tell it from the smile on his face and the apparent sense of pride he exuded. 

So all that to say.... "effort" might not be your guy's trigger, but he has one, and you just have to find it. For a teenage boy, effort is a pretty typical one though. might be worth a shot. 

Good luck, GB. Parenting ain't for the meek!

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Is this the thread where I complain about my 25-year-old daughter spending $400-500/month on Door Dash deliveries?  I'm prepping a dad-intervention - "Today we are going to talk about compound interest, a lot."

Is it your money?

 

[Mister CIA]

Is it your mmoney?

Nope.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

For what passes as gym class today, a B is definitely unacceptable.

Why?  Are there really finals in gym?  How do you even get a B?  Did he say?

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Nope.

Then leave it alone.  She's a grown woman.  

 

[Mister CIA]

Then leave it alone.  She's a grown woman.  

Nope.  

I'm old enough to remember wishing I'd grown up with better mentors.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Nope.  

I'm old enough to remember wishing I'd grown up with better mentors.

And perhaps she'll find some.  But you are her dad, not her mentor.  Maybe there's some YouTube Master Class on investing you could take together?  Make it about you wanting to spend time with her.  Criticising her choices is unlikely to yield great results.

 

[TLEF316]

As much as it probably sucks to have a 16 year old with "problems" (there's obviously a wide range of what this means...the occasional poor grade probably sitting towards the lower end of the spectrum), just know it could be SO much worse.

My brother is 29. Pretty much a straight A student in HS, went to a good school on a partial lacrosse scholarship(had some interest from a couple of Ivys and some other nice D1 schools but wanted to go some place where he could play) . My parents thought he was the "easy one". At some point, he just decided he was never gonna "work for the man" and just totally went off the rails. Moved across the country like 6 years ago to start a business (which was a horrible website idea that was NEVER going to work) and my dad supported him financially. The business predictably failed so he went back and got a masters degree so he could teach...phys ed. Absolutely nothing wrong with being a PE teacher, but its pretty clear that he chose that because, in his mind...it would be the least amount of work (and would allow him to coach). Did that for a year, decided he didn't like the district he was working in and applied at a different one. Didn't get the job and lost the one he had.

Then COVID hit, so nobody was hiring and he has basically spent the past 2 years scraping together a living through some various odd jobs (he does some online advertising work) and freelance coaching E-sports (believe it or not...there are a lot of parents that will pay you to teach their kid how to competently play Fortnite).  Now he's 29 with a masters degree, living in a mediocre place with multiple roommates he found online.  And although he wont admit it, I know he wont move back simply because he doesn't want to have to answer questions about what he's going to do with his life in person.  He's now getting to the point where he wants to maybe settle down, find a wife, start a family, etc but he's quickly learning that a 29 year old freelance E-Sports coach with 2 roommates isn't exactly a desirable partner.   Keeps my dad up at night.

Then you've got my 36 year old twin cousins. One of them has basically been a complete hermit since college (apparently he was badly bullied in HS and just never dealt with it properly. Severe depression and anxiety issues) and the other quit his job out of the blue 6 months ago (I believe he was a paralegal) and has basically fallen into a similar pattern. Wont even talk to his parents. 

So bottom line....count your blessings. A "lazy" teen is pretty damn common and if he's a good kid, he'll likely find his way. Just gotta figure out the right way to push him.

 

[fatness]

For the gym class, a B on a final is unacceptable. He has an easy A in this class and clearly blew off the final.

So yesterday we have this discussion. My wife is more of a gentle type and my style is more direct. Not dickish, but more of a "let's figure out what's going on so it doesn't repeat itself because classes are going to get harder as you move forward and into college."

But his response is basically: "well, I'm still getting a good overall grade in the class. what's the big deal?"

And this is when I start to get pissed.

Leave getting pissed for time you spend with yourself, thinking. Your job as a parent is raising your kid to not need you, and the best you can hope for is that when they're on their own, they still want to be in contact. To accomplish that you need to understand him now, which means you need to understand his perspective on things now. Once he's listening and trusting, instead of seeing you as one more situation he needs to navigate, he's listening and you can offer the benefit of your experience to help him get where he's going a bit more easily and with some guidance he trusts. At his age you're already done controlling what he wants and, to a large extent, what he chooses to do. 

My 2 sons are in their 40's now, they're fairly nearby, they love us and their kids love us, they're flawed (as am I) but they work like hell, take care of their families, and still like to talk to us. When I look back I can see the times I screwed up by not just listening to them when they were teenagers. I always listen to them now, and I'm so glad they listen to me now. Not agree, just listen. They're completely capable men, they don't need me, so my parental goal is accomplished with the bonus of still being happy to be in touch.

It sounds like you have a great kid, dad.

 

[dickey moe]

As a father of two kids on the cusp of entering their teen years, I appreciate the wisdom that's being shared in here. 

 

[fatness]

I got through highschool and college by figuring out day 1 what I could get away with not doing.  Made good grades that would have been great had I done them.

You really could not have told me anything.  Both because I was terribly immature even through college and you simply could not force me to gain perspective, but also I wasn't being lazy - it was thought through and calculated.  Worked hard on the things that needed to be done, and not doing what didn't need to be done was part of the plan.

Homework is 5% of my grade?  Thanks won't bother with that.  Attendance doesn't matter?  Cool see you for the quizzes and tests.  I can drop a test grade?  Sweet one less of those I'll worry about taking/attending.  Etc, etc.

Sounds a lot like me.  I knew what I wanted at 14 and going about accomplishing it involved a lot of ignoring what school and parents preached at me to do. I already knew what I wanted to do. I would have graduated a year early from HS EXCEPT the county board of education would not allow that under any circumstances, so I pissed away my final year of HS taking bull#### classes and only working part-time when I wanted to work fulltime for a year before college to save money. Going to college was easy; I had good grades and tested extremely wwell and got multiple scholarship offers because my parents had no money. The board of education (and my parents) should have listened to me but instead they made me waste a year. I wish my parents had helped me out with that.

 

[BigJim®]

Honestly, it sounds like you're worried that your Type B kid isn't a Type A...like you are. I think, ultimately, you're going to have to accept that he's not going to be.

This is an excellent point. I have 2 sons who could not be more different. One like the OP - a HS senior has always required some amount of prodding and things don’t click… consistently taking advantage of ability to retake tests (an odd ability I never had). Dropped 4th year math after a semester even though it limited college options. Definitely Type B in that he’s just not a self starter. The HS freshman OTOH, everything comes easy… total bell curve destroyer, straight A’s, taking 11th grade math as a 9th grader… Type A.

Where I do think there is some nuance is I definitely went from Type B to Type A after maturing, but it took hitting rock bottom. Like the OP, I’ve been floundering whether any sort of parenting technique can bring that out with the Senior without need for the rocky path I took (if it is in him at all - it might not be).

I’m not sure there is much a parent can do during teen years with a Type B beyond working on foundation & subtle mindset messaging. After bad tests, I try to always convey my belief that he’s capable of more. JMHO, ‘general ragging’ without instilling belief in capability doesn’t help at all, and may hurt. Similarly, after good tests, ‘I knew you could do it’ is better than ‘wow, really? That’s great!’ The other thing I’ve tried to instill is understanding it is a marathon, not a sprint. One of my downfalls was putting too much weight on one bad test or missed assignment… leading to defeatism. I actually try to instill that beyond school.

 

[higgins]

What would Edward James Olmos say? Watch final 5-seconds    /thread 

 

[identikit]

These are the best kind of threads as they bring out the best of/from everyone.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Judge Smails]

The best thing that can happen to a lazy teenage boy is to have friends or even better a girlfriend who are really into school/studying.  My son was like many described here.  Straight A's for many years but those were because much of the grade came from turning in homework assignments.  But you get to high school and it's all about 2 tests - mid terms  and finals.  Then their lack of study discipline is exposed.  My girls would study for a week with flashcards, etc.  Constant repetition and they would get twisted in knots.  But then they would of course kill their test because they had prepared so well.  My son? He would cram the night before even though we told him from experience that isn't the best approach.  Then he'd get a 50 on his mid term and would be way behind the 8 ball.  

He still made it through high school but then got crushed his freshman year in college.  F in Art Appreciation.  That type of thing.  I made him pay for his next semester and would only reimburse him if he had a B average at minimum.  He then met a girl who was really into studying.  So like a puppy dog he studied too.  And surprise - A's followed.  It's all about study habits.  They can get away with laziness early then they get exposed.

 

[SWC]

so for me my kids know that i have some regrets about times in my life that i got lazy and did not do things up to the level that i should have and frankly i just always had honest conversations with them where i told them look you are in a four year run right now that really sort of decides what you get to do with the rest of your life and you only get one swing at this so you can be lazy and dont care about it or you can just suck it up put in the work now and come out ahead in four years the choice is yours and to their credit the both sat at their desks and did their work and did well in school i dont know i am certainly no brain surgeon and there were a lot of times that their math was stuff my lady had to help them with but i think just having that honest hard conversation and telling them that look the only person you are cheating is yourself and getting them to realize that its a short run with big impacts really worked for me thats all i got and i wish you well take that to the bank brohan 

 

[D-Day]

If your kid is motivated by money,

1) Show him the difference in auto insurance cost with and without a good student discount.  Offer to split the savings with him if he gets the discount (assuming you are paying his car insurance).  

2) Do some research on scholarships he could earn to his favorite college based upon grade point average.  Get the grades up now instead of scrambling their senior year to save several thousand of dollars.  

In life, some times you win; sometimes you lose.  Just don't lose because you made it too easy for the other guy with a lot less talent to out work you.

<<<<<<< LOOK OVER THERE

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

If your kid is motivated by money,

1) Show him the difference in auto insurance cost with and without a good student discount.  Offer to split the savings with him if he gets the discount (assuming you are paying his car insurance).  

2) Do some research on scholarships he could earn to his favorite college based upon grade point average.  Get the grades up now instead of scrambling their senior year to save several thousand of dollars.  

In life, some times you win; sometimes you lose.  Just don't lose because you made it too easy for the other guy with a lot less talent to out work you.

<<<<<<< LOOK OVER THERE

Perhaps the word you are looking for is "advice".  Or is that the meta thingie?

 

[need2know]

Honestly, it sounds like you're worried that your Type B kid isn't a Type A...like you are. I think, ultimately, you're going to have to accept that he's not going to be.

My son is also one that will do anything you ask of him...but only what you ask of him.

He too, could have done better in school...but didn't. Particularly in math. He went to a community college and got a 2 year degree and won't be going back to school probably ever. He couldn't pass the math classes. 

I worked my butt off to get good grades and did. But I also realized in hindsight that it really didn't matter as much as I thought they did. 

I think that as long as you both are clear on the idea that he's going to have to live with the results of his efforts then it's probably best to just let it go.  

ETA: My son is exceptionally frugal with his money. He saves just about everything he ever gets. He currently has WAY more money in the bank and investments at 22 than almost every adult you know at 52. So..

Great response 

 

[beer 30]

This gets to the heart of things for me.  As a university professor, I actively downplay the role of traditional testing/exams. (As an aside, I just wrapped up an Accounting 101 course where testing was just a third of the grade.  The rest was online assignments (three attempts; immediate, automated feedback), some Excel training related to the accounting topics, and online group discussions with more of a broader business focus (e.g., for the inventory chapter, they shared and discussed articles on current supply chain issues).  I've gotten really good, unsolicited feedback from a few students ("..fun and informative..").)

As Mac points out, supported by the research, it's about the learning process - learning how to learn ...self-directed/self-regulated learning.  I would suggest your discussions might focus on that aspect.  Unfortunately, too many educators are all about testing and "surface" learning (such as memorizing).  Better to emphasize "deep" learning that comes from an active learning environment where students take ownership of their own learning.  Arguably, if your son wasn't motivated to prepare for the finals, some or much of the blame falls on the teachers.

If your son can develop strong learning skills, he then sets himself up for future success ...in school and in life.  Look at the work you do, Chief.  Almost all of the customers that call for service have a unique situation that needs to be addressed.  There's no "textbook" solution to turn to.  It's like Matt Damon at the end of The Martian - you solve one problem, and then the next, and then the next.  If your son can learn to analyze situations and information, and learn to solve problems, then he will have developed skills that will benefit him for life.

That said, good grades are still used as a benchmark - for scholarships; for admittance to better schools; to ideal job opportunities.  He would be well-served to keep that in mind.

I always knew he was smart but this is next level stuff from the medal monger   Bolded reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite podcasters/motivational dudes, Jocko Willink, “There are no bad soldiers (employees), just bad leaders.” Has definitely been the case with both my girls and I suspect a lot of you. You notice a discernible difference in their enthusiasm for a class based on how the teacher presents the material. One of the best teachers both my daughters had was a third grade teacher at the school my oldest now teaches at. He made a difference for both of my girls and inspired one to be a teacher at a very young age. We’re personal friends with him because of that but I know he has a huge base of successful kids that stay in touch with him. Just one of those great teachers that loves his calling and loves his kids.

These are the best kind of threads as they bring out the best of/from everyone.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Was just going to post this. This is one of those threads you wish you could pin somehow before it gets lost in the ocean of nonsense on this forum. Some really, really good advice in here. Thanks to @ChiefD for posting the original question and to all of you for your responses. It’s been great reading and both my kids are long gone from the home. Merry Christmas one and all!

PS - any first time parents should be tagged, great advice for down the road. Looking at you @gruecd

 

[Drunken knight]

How are things going?