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This place is going to die of fear. (1 Viewer)

That's a shame if you think I'm missing what's special about this place. 

From the beginning, I've had the pleasure of a front row seat seeing how special it is.

It's been one of the best and most meaningful things about the business of Footballguys which is mostly unrelated to the Free For All Forum. 

It's why this forum is still here given the effort, time and money required every day.

From trying to manage the mess that is the Political Forum, that was created solely to save this forum, to spending the time to try and cultivate a place where friendships and discussion can not just happen but flourish, to paying to keep the platform up and stably running while forgoing ad revenue here because I know how that would go over, to the angry and ugly PMs I get or the hyper ugly posts on the forums about my family that get deleted, it's a lot. 

And for a long time all those "costs" have been outweighed by the good that comes from here.

So I feel I'm acutely aware of what makes this place special.

If I can be honest in return with you, I'm sorry you'd question that.

And of course it's not just the one single line in the song or not seeing it's tongue in cheek.  That's obvious. It's also obvious no parody gets the standing ovation if people don't think there's some truth to it. 

For me, it's just life and how it goes. I don't get the luxury of an anonymous screen name. But that's on me. I should have known the downsides of taking such an active role in the forums from the start and allowing it to be personal. But that's also a part of what's special about the forum for everyone, that it can become personal for them. 

Thanks to the folks who've sent messages. I apologize for adding drama. 


Joe, From a seat in the "Peanut Gallery" I have always felt you judged the FFA harsher than it actually ever was.  I get it, that it the way I am with my company and my kids. We all do that with things personal to us.

That being said when you thought it was at its worse, it was still 100% better and for sure cleaner than any forum with thousands of for the most part men talking football and other aspects of life.   The PSF is a different animal that is tough to get a handle on anywhere. It will always go back to that simple quote.

"You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can`t please all of the people all of the time" That will never change.   

Appreciate the effort!

 
I say let those that go in the PSF go at their own risk and just let it go. Moderate all of the other forums let the PSF become a free-for-all. If you can't take it, don't go in there. I stopped because the art of debate is almost non-existent over there. I have right and left leaning friends and we are all friends and debate the hot topics all the time. It never gets personal. 

As far as the song posted, I'm not sure how anyone thinks Joe could not take it personal. This is his baby. 


This doesnt work.  I've seen this approach tried in other boards and it melts down.   There's no solution but to try and quarantine

 
Joe is in a tough spot now, as the Politics Forum is obviously a sewer that needs to be fed to one of Khaleesi's dragons, but if he does that, the people who come here just to argue and cause trouble in that subforum will likely fold their tents and depart and overall traffic on the forum goes down, which ultimately hurts his bottom line.  I have no doubt that Joe has always had good intentions, and I cannot imagine trying to moderate a forum this large, but the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point. 

Also, and if I said this for a while, but if any poster is getting themselves suspended multiple times a year, they should be shown the door with a permanent ban.  I know Joe doesn't like banning people, but slapping the misbehaviors on the wrist and always letting them back in just contributes to the mess. 

 
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Joe is in a tough spot now, as the Politics Forum is obviously a sewer that needs to be fed to one of Khaleesi's dragons, but if he does that, the people who come here just to argue and cause trouble in that subforum will likely fold their tents and depart and overall traffic on the forum goes down, which ultimately hurts his bottom line.  I have no doubt that Joe has always had good intentions, and I cannot imagine trying to moderate a forum this large, but the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point. 

Also, and if I said this for a while, but if any poster is getting themselves suspended multiple times a year, they should be shown the door with a permanent ban.  I know Joe doesn't like banning people, but slapping the misbehaviors on the wrist and always letting them back in just contributes to the mess. 


I have serious doubts the traffic to the psf provides any revenue at all.   There aren't any ads here that can't be blocked, and nobody really wants hot bothsidesism takes with their sleeper RBs

 
There is no way the PSF and FFA are net positives in terms of the bottom line. I’m certain Joe’s business would be more profitable and he would have more free time if he didn’t have to bear the cost and expend the time moderating them. 

 
Also, and if I said this for a while, but if any poster is getting themselves suspended multiple times a year, they should be shown the door with a permanent ban.  I know Joe doesn't like banning people, but slapping the misbehaviors on the wrist and always letting them back in just contributes to the mess. 
:goodposting:

Doesn’t make much sense that the laughing emoji is gone, but the troll who abused it is still here.

 
I know everyone loves this. Nothing I can say will come off as anything but whining so I know I just need to take it and move on. Same now as I did back then. Naturally this is more personal for me as it's not a screen name or anonymous for me. 

But wanted to say this on the "Jews getting kicked off for non Christian views" thing. One of the primary things I tried to do with the forums from the very start was to avoid giving that kind of impression at all cost. It literally was one of the top things I wanted to make sure I did with the forums.

I think I've been pretty open about my faith as a Christian. And not forcing any kind of weird exclusionary thing on the forum when it comes to faith. Clearly I failed massively there. I apologize for ever giving anyone reason to write something like that. 
Hey, Joe. Before this goes much further, I’d like to maybe add some clarity to that line. While it is not mine, I have a good memory for these things, and I actually remember the context. At the time, there were a ton of Christian threads on the site, debating everything Christianity. I remember that line being discussed, and it was just a tongue-in-cheek joke about all the Christian threads, and “where are all the Jews?” It was not a knock on you, or the site, it was just a maybe poorly worded joke to fit the pentameter. Much like political threads now, everyone complained about all the religious threads and arguing back then. I hope that gives you a little better perspective.

You are a good man, Joe. And as for the nasty private messages, try not to take to heart insults from people that don’t know you. They only have the power which you give them. 

 
There is no way the PSF and FFA are net positives in terms of the bottom line. I’m certain Joe’s business would be more profitable and he would have more free time if he didn’t have to bear the cost and expend the time moderating them. 
To an extent, I'm an FBG (since yellow board days) because of the forums. I buy an annual FBG subscription almost as a donation. If the forums fall apart, I'll fade away and so will my subscription fee. I bet there are several like me. 

I've been wondering for quite a while why there's no laughing emoji. I've looked for it many times because there are some damn funny people here. To know it's been purposefully removed seems silly. Would love to know the backstory on this one.

 
:goodposting:

Doesn’t make much sense that the laughing emoji is gone, but the troll who abused it is still here.
Literally 3-4 screen names that did it for YEARS.  It only seemed to become a problem when other posters began to call them out on it.   Now those same screen names respond with :cry:

I don't do Twitter or social media so it's a great help to me.   Although I don't agree with everyone in the PSF there are plenty of screen names I've read and trusted over the years whose opinion I value even if I don't agree with them.  Believe it or not the PSF is mostly civil with the exception of a very few.   I guess that's how things are these days.  You can't get a drink on an airplane either because of a tiny minority of people. 

Anyhow, I'm thankful to have rediscovered the forums.  Thanks to Joe and the rest of the team. 

 
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It's also obvious no parody gets the standing ovation if people don't think there's some truth to it. 
 
The standing ovation is because it's an 8 and 1/2 minute song about the FFA! People were applauding the effort it must have taken to make it happen. Many people contributed. Many forum members and forum events were mentioned. And then Bigbottom made it sound like something you'd hear on the radio. I mean, listen to those harmonies! This was top notch production value and it was all done right here, in-house. Those were the reasons the forum responded with a "standing ovation".

Thanks for everything you do in terms of this forum. Sorry you have to deal with stuff in the PF and 99% of us are saddened and disgusted that you have to deal with jerks who send you nasty PM''s or take personal shots at you or your family. Most all of us agree there those things are awful. But this parody song, artsy shtick, time capsule of the FFA, labor of love, whatever you want to call it, does not come from the same place as the horrible stuff you mentioned. It was born out of a love for this place and meant as a celebration of it. I hope there will be a time the light in your mind can shine on it differently and you see it for what it really is and smile.

 
There is no way the PSF and FFA are net positives in terms of the bottom line. I’m certain Joe’s business would be more profitable and he would have more free time if he didn’t have to bear the cost and expend the time moderating them. 
Credit where do and not speaking to the content but nice work on that song I would have no idea how to do that.  :hifive:
 

Also hoping @matuski didn’t get the permaban, always appreciated his independent perspective and takes that didn’t always fall in line with the majority here. 

 
Man. Some great freaking posts in this thread that captured a lot of my thoughts as I was reading through, or Hippling, if you will....and you will.

Joe, you can't know what direction things may take when you create a space. All you can do is hope for the best. I just know that one bad apple doesn't always spoil the whole bunch, and this place is proof of that.

I don't always post a lot, some days I just read and read without saying a word. But I appreciate this place. So much. Aside from a year or so sabbatical (not even sure why tbh), this place is still one of the only consistent daily things for me out of the last, idk 15 years or so (old yeller member here but never posted much back then). Even if I've never spoken a word IRL to a single one of you, I feel closer to some of you than I do members of my own family. I feel like closer friends with some of you than many people I call a "friend" in real life.  Most of my family has abandoned me and my kids, for reasons unbeknownst to me. Most of the people I used to call friends, I have just grown apart from. It happens. I'm not looking for sympathy, but my point is that I'm left with very few constants. This place is one of the few constants I do have, and I'm so very thankful for that.  I appreciate the views expressed here and the people expressing them, even if they disagree with my own views, because they make me think. That's never a bad thing. 

I can't recall who said they were word vomiting upthread, but this was mine. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

I freaking love y'all, man. 

:hugs: 

 
To an extent, I'm an FBG (since yellow board days) because of the forums. I buy an annual FBG subscription almost as a donation. If the forums fall apart, I'll fade away and so will my subscription fee. I bet there are several like me. 

I've been wondering for quite a while why there's no laughing emoji. I've looked for it many times because there are some damn funny people here. To know it's been purposefully removed seems silly. Would love to know the backstory on this one.


Man. Some great freaking posts in this thread that captured a lot of my thoughts as I was reading through, or Hippling, if you will....and you will.

Joe, you can't know what direction things may take when you create a space. All you can do is hope for the best. I just know that one bad apple doesn't always spoil the whole bunch, and this place is proof of that.

I don't always post a lot, some days I just read and read without saying a word. But I appreciate this place. So much. Aside from a year or so sabbatical (not even sure why tbh), this place is still one of the only consistent daily things for me out of the last, idk 15 years or so (old yeller member here but never posted much back then). Even if I've never spoken a word IRL to a single one of you, I feel closer to some of you than I do members of my own family. I feel like closer friends with some of you than many people I call a "friend" in real life.  Most of my family has abandoned me and my kids, for reasons unbeknownst to me. Most of the people I used to call friends, I have just grown apart from. It happens. I'm not looking for sympathy, but my point is that I'm left with very few constants. This place is one of the few constants I do have, and I'm so very thankful for that.  I appreciate the views expressed here and the people expressing them, even if they disagree with my own views, because they make me think. That's never a bad thing. 

I can't recall who said they were word vomiting upthread, but this was mine. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

I freaking love y'all, man. 

:hugs: 


These two posts kinda say it all for me.

I might only post something every other week, but I am a daily visitor.

 
There is no way the PSF and FFA are net positives in terms of the bottom line. I’m certain Joe’s business would be more profitable and he would have more free time if he didn’t have to bear the cost and expend the time moderating them. 


To an extent, I'm an FBG (since yellow board days) because of the forums. I buy an annual FBG subscription almost as a donation. If the forums fall apart, I'll fade away and so will my subscription fee. I bet there are several like me. 

I've been wondering for quite a while why there's no laughing emoji. I've looked for it many times because there are some damn funny people here. To know it's been purposefully removed seems silly. Would love to know the backstory on this one.
Obviously not a direct positive but I would imagine there’s several in this boat.

 
Obviously not a direct positive but I would imagine there’s several in this boat.


No doubt. I'd guess (hope) there are hundreds of people here who buy a subscription because of the forums. Many have told me they do and that's awesome and appreciated. A few go out of their way to let people know they won't be purchasing a subscription :( and that is what it is. Can't do much about that. 

From a financial perspective though, the forums are a huge net negative overall.

But as I said above, the positives of the forum aren't financial. 

 
No doubt. I'd guess (hope) there are hundreds of people here who buy a subscription because of the forums. Many have told me they do and that's awesome and appreciated. A few go out of their way to let people know they won't be purchasing a subscription :( and that is what it is. Can't do much about that. 

From a financial perspective though, the forums are a huge net negative overall.

But as I said above, the positives of the forum aren't financial. 
I think it was Chief but somebody said this community is your legacy - obviously knowing you I think you would say no, it’s my family and friends but from a “work” perspective I think that could be correct and I think it’s an awesome legacy no matter what happens from here on out.  

 
I’m certain Joe’s business would be more profitable and he would have more free time if he didn’t have to bear the cost and expend the time moderating them.
Almost every board I've ever participated in have volunteer moderators. Could be done here, as well.

 
Contrary to the song, we didn't think the creepy posts about young women was hilarity. 


There was at times an element of hypocrisy at work. It was as of they were in some sort of protected class, while a huge amount of other stuff far more troublesome was ok for years later.  It was a strange hill to die on.  

It was easily a decade+ later that most creepy posts were banned for the rest of the gender. 

 
Exactly this. A message board is moderated by moderating the users, not the trappings of the board itself.
This is well said.

I'll also admit to some frustration with the board upgrades this year too. Every time my cursor scrolls over the top menu, that dumb large dropdown popup appears. Drives me nuts. I'm sure there's some technical net positive there, but the execution from a user POV...not great.

 
There was at times an element of hypocrisy at work. It was as of they were in some sort of protected class, while a huge amount of other stuff far more troublesome was ok for years later.  It was a strange hill to die on.  

It was easily a decade+ later that most creepy posts were banned for the rest of the gender. 


Incorrect. There wasn't a "protected class". And nobody picked any hill to die on. We tried to stop the creepy posting on women. Young and old. Much of the posting was on older women in the oddly attractive threads. Some thought/think it was hilarity as the song says. We disagreed. 

And to be clear. We certainly made mistakes. One of our most significant was not stopping it earlier. That's to my discredit. 

 
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But as I said above, the positives of the forum aren't financial. 


Joe, I was thinking about all of this while vacuuming, and sat down to post something that, as it turns out, is very much linked to your post above that I just read.

But before I mention that, I wanted to give some wholly unsolicited and possibly unnecessary advice.  I see that you said you've reached out to someone (or more than one someone) who isn't associated with the board, to ask their opinion on the song and maybe other matters.  On one hand, I understand that because this is likely someone who knows you much better than any of us do.  However, I don't see much utility in asking a person who has zero knowledge of this board, its people, its community for their opinion.  Instead, I'm wondering, are there long-time posters here whose opinions you respect?  Have you reached out to any of them?  There are several who've posted in this thread whom I feel that way about, but maybe you have some that aren't as close to the song as someone like biggie, who could give you their perspective.

Your distress over this and other board matters is very concerning to me.  That's not a judgment as to whether you should feel that way, but because you do, I'd love to see you look for ways to feel better about it rather than parsing every post in a way that seems to have you wallowing further in the misery.  Maybe it's what I've suggested above.  Maybe it's something else entirely.  But you seem strongly pessimistic in a way that I don't think corresponds with your usual nature.

Circling back up to the first paragraph I wrote, I had come in here wanting to share a little something that I think you know at least in part.  But when you're feeling such misery and distress, I hope you'll remember this and that it can pick you up even just for a few minutes:  I know of two people whose lives were saved by being part of the community here.  One is a person who had a serious disease and credits the people here with helping him hang in when he had given up, as well as offering a way for him to regain his physical strength.  The other is more direct, a person who was on the verge of a suicide attempt and reached out to someone here, someone he didn't know well at all, and that person talked to him for several hours on the phone and online, until he got passed that feeling.  I think you know of this one because the poster mentioned it once in a thread.  I know that poster (as well as the identity of the person who helped), and he is doing very well though not part of the board anymore.  Lives literally saved, two that I know of but there could be more.  Yes, as you said, the positives of the forum are not financial.

 
Joe, I was thinking about all of this while vacuuming, and sat down to post something that, as it turns out, is very much linked to your post above that I just read.

But before I mention that, I wanted to give some wholly unsolicited and possibly unnecessary advice.  I see that you said you've reached out to someone (or more than one someone) who isn't associated with the board, to ask their opinion on the song and maybe other matters.  On one hand, I understand that because this is likely someone who knows you much better than any of us do.  However, I don't see much utility in asking a person who has zero knowledge of this board, its people, its community for their opinion.  Instead, I'm wondering, are there long-time posters here whose opinions you respect?  Have you reached out to any of them?  There are several who've posted in this thread whom I feel that way about, but maybe you have some that aren't as close to the song as someone like biggie, who could give you their perspective.

Your distress over this and other board matters is very concerning to me.  That's not a judgment as to whether you should feel that way, but because you do, I'd love to see you look for ways to feel better about it rather than parsing every post in a way that seems to have you wallowing further in the misery.  Maybe it's what I've suggested above.  Maybe it's something else entirely.  But you seem strongly pessimistic in a way that I don't think corresponds with your usual nature.

Circling back up to the first paragraph I wrote, I had come in here wanting to share a little something that I think you know at least in part.  But when you're feeling such misery and distress, I hope you'll remember this and that it can pick you up even just for a few minutes:  I know of two people whose lives were saved by being part of the community here.  One is a person who had a serious disease and credits the people here with helping him hang in when he had given up, as well as offering a way for him to regain his physical strength.  The other is more direct, a person who was on the verge of a suicide attempt and reached out to someone here, someone he didn't know well at all, and that person talked to him for several hours on the phone and online, until he got passed that feeling.  I think you know of this one because the poster mentioned it once in a thread.  I know that poster (as well as the identity of the person who helped), and he is doing very well though not part of the board anymore.  Lives literally saved, two that I know of but there could be more.  Yes, as you said, the positives of the forum are not financial.


Thanks. For sure. And I apologize for talking too much negatively. 

As I wrote in my response to bigbottom, I'm acutely aware of the positives in the forum. 

If I weren't, this forum would be history long ago. 

The negatives are significant. As are the positives. And obviously, things like lives aren't even measurable. I'm able to hold those two thoughts at the same time.

 
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What are we doing?
My apologies, I read the topic and it got my attention. Prior to Howard throwing that punch in the Michigan game I hadn't step foot in the FFA since the NFL Kickoff almost.

I tend to agree with the theme of the title and wish we could figure out a way to get more folks on the same page and feel like they are moving in the same direction, whatever direction that might be. 

For example, I know I don't always fit into the mainstream opinion(majority) so rather than always pound down on that POV I will take some time to read and try to get the pulse of the room as a whole. 

-Things that people might have gotten a timeout for posting a year or two ago or had a thread removed, cut, edited or merged might now be widely accepted in the mainstream media. 

-But what happens in the interval is you shy away from your honest reactions or emotions to certain topics and you get a watered down pulse. IMO

-I haven't actually read thru all this yet, I could have just put the emoticon there but I was expressing my interest in reading what people think about all of this. 

Hope that explained things

Cheers!

 
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Incorrect. There wasn't a "protected class". And nobody picked any hill to die on. We tried to stop the creepy posting on women. Young and old. Much of the posting was on older women in the oddly attractive threads. Some thought/think it was hilarity as the song says. We disagreed. 

And to be clear. We certainly made mistakes. One of our most significant was not stopping it earlier. That's to my discredit. 


I mean come on, just own the cognitive dissonance that existed around the presidental daughters.  It's not that hard.  We've all picked funny hills to die on at times.  This was clearly one of yours.

 
Contrary to the song, we didn't think the creepy posts about young women was hilarity. 


The Bush twins were 20 when W entered office.  Contrary to what you might think, finding an adult woman attractive is not "creepy".

 
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Random interjection: the Shark Pool game threads never get enough love when people start talking about the plusses and minuses of FBG forums.

They are a pathway towards a more polite dialogue 

 

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