This place is going to die of fear. (2 Viewers)

[Caveman33]

I think time and loss of anonymity have contributed to a decline in FFA quality. Everyone ages and the board doesn't get many fresh faces so the average poster is about 20 years older now as compared to 2003. Different life experiences and while these experiences might still be interesting, the individual may be more mature or too concerned with reputation to share the interesting parts.

 

[General Malaise]

I think time and loss of anonymity have contributed to a decline in FFA quality. Everyone ages and the board doesn't get many fresh faces so the average poster is about 20 years older now as compared to 2003. Different life experiences and while these experiences might still be interesting, the individual may be more mature or too concerned with reputation to share the interesting parts.

I think these are good points. I went over to FFT today for a quick visit, searched my username and just laughed at some of the vitriol and insults typed out about me. 15 years ago, I create an account and retaliate in kind, destined to defend myself. Now? I just laugh. What's the point? I have a million other real life things to concern myself with, so to your point, I think maturity plays a huge role.

I also think that's why the alias account of GG is so vocal. The driver of that account would NEVER give up anonymity. It would destroy the ruse. So under the cloak of anonymity, that alias can and does say whatever it wants, fearing no retribution because it has no real life interactions with veteran members of this forum who all know each other, either through real life encounters or social media.

I also think you're correct in that 20 years of friendship building here has created more private avenues of communication to share personal stories. That's absolutely a truism that's come from time together and relationship building.

Finally, no new fresh blood is coming here. That's a pipe dream. 90% of us that post today were posting here 10+ years ago. Kids 20 - 30 will never step foot here.

It is what it is at this point. And that's fine by me.

 

[Caveman33]

I think time and loss of anonymity have contributed to a decline in FFA quality. Everyone ages and the board doesn't get many fresh faces so the average poster is about 20 years older now as compared to 2003. Different life experiences and while these experiences might still be interesting, the individual may be more mature or too concerned with reputation to share the interesting parts.

I think these are good points. I went over to FFT today for a quick visit, searched my username and just laughed at some of the vitriol and insults typed out about me. 15 years ago, I create an account and retaliate in kind, destined to defend myself. Now? I just laugh. What's the point? I have a million other real life things to concern myself with, so to your point, I think maturity plays a huge role.

I also think that's why the alias account of GG is so vocal. The driver of that account would NEVER give up anonymity. It would destroy the ruse. So under the cloak of anonymity, that alias can and does say whatever it wants, fearing no retribution because it has no real life interactions with veteran members of this forum who all know each other, either through real life encounters or social media.

I also think you're correct in that 20 years of friendship building here has created more private avenues of communication to share personal stories. That's absolutely a truism that's come from time together and relationship building.

Finally, no new fresh blood is coming here. That's a pipe dream. 90% of us that post today were posting here 10+ years ago. Kids 20 - 30 will never step foot here.

It is what it is at this point. And that's fine by me.

Right. Whether or not there even has been a decline in the FFA is a matter of opinion. I miss reading more frequent personal stories and also remember how random visitors like a skinny girl looking for breasts or a guy selling ugly t-shirts could cause quite a stir. It was entertaining.

 

[belljr]

I think time and loss of anonymity have contributed to a decline in FFA quality. Everyone ages and the board doesn't get many fresh faces so the average poster is about 20 years older now as compared to 2003. Different life experiences and while these experiences might still be interesting, the individual may be more mature or too concerned with reputation to share the interesting parts.

I think these are good points. I went over to FFT today for a quick visit, searched my username and just laughed at some of the vitriol and insults typed out about me. 15 years ago, I create an account and retaliate in kind, destined to defend myself. Now? I just laugh. What's the point? I have a million other real life things to concern myself with, so to your point, I think maturity plays a huge role.

I also think that's why the alias account of GG is so vocal. The driver of that account would NEVER give up anonymity. It would destroy the ruse. So under the cloak of anonymity, that alias can and does say whatever it wants, fearing no retribution because it has no real life interactions with veteran members of this forum who all know each other, either through real life encounters or social media.

I also think you're correct in that 20 years of friendship building here has created more private avenues of communication to share personal stories. That's absolutely a truism that's come from time together and relationship building.

Finally, no new fresh blood is coming here. That's a pipe dream. 90% of us that post today were posting here 10+ years ago. Kids 20 - 30 will never step foot here.

It is what it is at this point. And that's fine by me.

Oh you read that? My bad I guess

 

[Joe Bryant]

I know I've had a few innocuous jokes deleted so it really isn't worth the effort anymore

Hi @belljr,

What is not worth the effort?

Looking at the moderation record, it looks like you had a couple of posts that were deleted when there were a bunch of posts deleted in some of the mass shooting threads. Those often get off the rails and the moderators will try to clear up as best they can.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

Not that I see. Most people have been super cool about keeping politics out of the FFA.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

Not that I see. Most people have been super cool about keeping politics out of the FFA.

Seriously, who wants to talk politics. I mean, those guys......

 

[Da Guru]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

I had one deleted a few weeks ago about an LGBTQ issue. That same day another thread was locked for getting too heated even though it really had nothing to do with politics. I learned my lesson and haven't made an attempt since.

Read the first page and name one remotely controversial topic being discussed. Heck this is probably the most controversial thread still active in the whole FFA. All that we have are sports and entertainment threads with the occasional well-wishing type or family oriented topic (kids, vacations, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to read the NBA thread every day and peruse other threads from time to time, but I just visit less often and stay for shorter periods.

I know the thread you're talking about. Look, I know you're not one of the problem children here, and I really do sympathize with your desire to talk about some of this stuff. But we tried that for years in the PSF, and it just didn't work. We don't need to debate why it didn't work -- what's important is that it just didn't. There was no possibility at all, none, for that thread to stay within earshot of civil. This wasn't one of those "shades of gray" topics like the covid thread or the Twitter thread. It was on the fast lane to the PSF hellscape.

I'm okay with being labeled a pessimist on this topic, but I honestly don't think people can talk civilly about anything political any more. Not on an anonymous platform.

You are correct, but you can`t talk about politics in real life anymore either. A guy just quit our golf league because of another players views.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

You are correct, but you can`t talk about politics in real life anymore either. A guy just quit our golf league because of another players views.

That's sad. Imagine being that guy.

(I know he probably has a lot of good qualities and that was why he was in your league in the first place, but still.)

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Right. Whether or not there even has been a decline in the FFA is a matter of opinion. I miss reading more frequent personal stories and also remember how random visitors like a skinny girl looking for breasts or a guy selling ugly t-shirts could cause quite a stir. It was entertaining.

One of the side effects of easing into middle age that I've experienced is that I find myself listening to more NPR, particularly the Moth Radio Hour, in which participants tell personal stories. More than once I've thought of how that may go over here, and this post of yours provided a little feedback.

The biggest reason I've resisted starting a 'Storytellers' thread is that the bar has already been set so high for well-written and engaging stories here that further attempts will only pale in comparison. TBH, though, since I've been watching my mother lose more and more of her memories in the past year, I'm less worried about comparisons and more motivated by the idea of just getting my memories out there before they're gone forever.

I now return this thread back to its regular destination, carry on...

 

[Uruk-Hai]

more motivated by the idea of just getting my memories out there before they're gone forever.

My immediate family lived with my great-great aunt when I was growing up. She had had a stroke and had mobility issues, but her mind was still sharp. This woman was born in 1887 (she made 94 summers before leaving us) and had about a zillion photographs in boxes. Two or three times a year (usually around a holiday, but not always) when I was a kid, extended family would all gather. They'd get out a box or two of photos and my aunt would tell stories about them with my grandmother or someone else writing the basics (who was who, best guess at year, etc...) on the back of each picture. My mom and her sisters still have all of those boxes with the pictures. Even as a surly teenager who was supposed to think all adults were dumb, I would get into those storytelling sessions.

 

[Gally]

I'm okay with being labeled a pessimist on this topic, but I honestly don't think people can talk civilly about anything political any more. Not on an anonymous platform.

The bold is 100% true. There is no discussion. It's always I am right and you are wrong with no attempt to see what the other side sees. The art of debate is completely gone

 

[NewlyRetired]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

Not that I see. Most people have been super cool about keeping politics out of the FFA.

With out knowing any data my guess is that posts being deleted, threads closed, posters getting suspended and posters being banned must be significantly lower after the politics forum was closed as compared to while it was running.

 

[soothsayer]

All of this sounds great, however we've also gotten rid of the ability to have difficult discussions in the FFA. Used to be (pre-PSF) an occasional confrontational topic would come up and we'd debate it.

I personally find this a bit sad because this was the one place where I could discuss these types of things with people with dissenting opinions and actually gain a broader perspective. I learned something on more than one occasion.

At their very best, online spaces can be like having a "personal board of directors". That only works, however, when everyone is sincerely looking out for everyone else's best interest. I trust my "inner circle" of friends IRL because I know if they're giving me feedback - positive or negative - it's with my interest in mind. Extremely rare to find such a community of caring and thoughtful individuals online.

At their very worst, online spaces don't advance dialogue at all because everyone is shouting just to have an opinion, not because they're interested in any sort of growth or progress. I'd argue that most online arguments just set everyone back rather than moving them forward. Too many people just see online communities as a place to be their worst self rather than their best. Anonymity is an awful drug online.

Getting rid of the PSF here at least moved the needle towards making this place better IMO, not worse.

 

[tymarsas]

I'm okay with being labeled a pessimist on this topic, but I honestly don't think people can talk civilly about anything political any more. Not on an anonymous platform.

The bold is 100% true. There is no discussion. It's always I am right and you are wrong with no attempt to see what the other side sees. The art of debate is completely gone

It's always been like that imo. There has always been stubbornness and inability to see other's viewpoints. I fondly remember having arguments with friends in bars that carried on for hours. Nobody ever really gave an inch, we just argued the same points back and forth. The big difference was we were still friends at the end of the night. Now people end friendships over it, and say things like "liberalism/conservatism is a mentally disease".

 

[Gally]

It's always been like that imo. There has always been stubbornness and inability to see other's viewpoints. I fondly remember having arguments with friends in bars that carried on for hours. Nobody ever really gave an inch, we just argued the same points back and forth. The big difference was we were still friends at the end of the night. Now people end friendships over it, and say things like "liberalism/conservatism is a mentally disease".

I disagree slightly. People would argue their side for hours without giving an inch necessarily but they would at least concede they understood the other perspective but just didn't agree with it. Which is perfectly acceptable and probably why friendships remained.

But like you said, now there is no "seeing the other side" (even if you disagree with it) and it gets taken to the extent of your viewpoint is so wrong we can't be friends anymore. It really is a shame the world has moved to this. Gone are the days where you can have differing opinions and still see the other side. It's all or nothing now.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Now everything controversial is shut down, even if it has nothing to do with politics but simply humanity or social disagreements.

Like what?
Certain topics will naturally devolve into politics - but I’ve seen some politic adjacent threads (Russian Invasion, Spy Balloons) survive. I’ve seen plenty of other “deep” topics among the fluff as well.

 

[massraider]

Like what?
Certain topics will naturally devolve into politics - but I’ve seen some politic adjacent threads (Russian Invasion, Spy Balloons) survive. I’ve seen plenty of other “deep” topics among the fluff as well.

Andrew Tate
Elon Musk

I'm not second guessing the mods, I'm a fan of no more PSF, but since you asked

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Elon Musk

That was shut down? I didn’t realize - seemed it lasted for a long time.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm okay with being labeled a pessimist on this topic, but I honestly don't think people can talk civilly about anything political any more. Not on an anonymous platform.

The bold is 100% true. There is no discussion. It's always I am right and you are wrong with no attempt to see what the other side sees. The art of debate is completely gone

It's always been like that imo. There has always been stubbornness and inability to see other's viewpoints. I fondly remember having arguments with friends in bars that carried on for hours. Nobody ever really gave an inch, we just argued the same points back and forth. The big difference was we were still friends at the end of the night. Now people end friendships over it, and say things like "liberalism/conservatism is a mentally disease".

Yep.

It's interesting to note that "ending friendships over a minor spat" is behavior that we normally associate with women. Men are supposed to be the ones who can argue with each other all day and then go enjoy a few pints together. The sexes are becoming much more similar in this regard, but they're getting similar because men are becoming more neurotic, not because women are getting more emotionally stable. (Here's a random citation if anybody needs evidence for the proposition that neuroticism varies strongly by gender -- that's a real thing.)

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I like that there are less solid contributors to the SP & FFA getting timeouts due to them getting fished into a back and forth with some mainly PF troll.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

Perfect.

One great thing about the FFA is nobody is required to have an interest in threads they're not interested in. This will work great for you.

I feel like the logic you are trying to apply with the FFA is the same logic you should have applied to the PSF. If you don't have an interest in politics...don't go to the PSF.

There’s plenty of places you can discuss politics or call some one a “libtard” or “cave-man”. Joe doesn’t owe it to you to give you that forum. It’s odd you feel entitled to it.

I'm not sure I'd say I'm entitled to it, but I'm a consumer looking for a product. Either you offer it or you don't.

I never had a problem with the PSF. I'm not easily offended, so getting bent out of shape because of laughing emojis or bad posters didn't really bother me. Over time I just put certain posters on ignore whose content I felt never added to the discussions but were only used to inflame. It was literally a click of the button. When I posted, I considered someone else's feeling and opinions in my posts. As part of discussing certain topics, it allowed me to state my point of view and argue my position. I tried to back my positions with facts and figures. Sometimes, when I heard counter arguments, it helped mold my position. I can tell you that Tim, fish, Rich Conway and many others on the PSF had different views but I never took what they wrote personal.

I don't know what moderators go through when the PSF was in operation. But as a consumer, I found that sub-forum to be my favorite place to come and kill a few hours. As Ed Rendell would say, this is another example of the "wussification of America".

 

[Joe Bryant]

With out knowing any data my guess is that posts being deleted, threads closed, posters getting suspended and posters being banned must be significantly lower after the politics forum was closed as compared to while it was running.

For sure. Plus it's just a generally better thing for the moderators. And for me.

It was pretty miserable there the last few years.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not sure I'd say I'm entitled to it, but I'm a consumer looking for a product. Either you offer it or you don't.

I never had a problem with the PSF. I'm not easily offended, so getting bent out of shape because of laughing emojis or bad posters didn't really bother me. Over time I just put certain posters on ignore whose content I felt never added to the discussions but were only used to inflame. It was literally a click of the button. When I posted, I considered someone else's feeling and opinions in my posts. As part of discussing certain topics, it allowed me to state my point of view and argue my position. I tried to back my positions with facts and figures. Sometimes, when I heard counter arguments, it helped mold my position. I can tell you that Tim, fish, Rich Conway and many others on the PSF had different views but I never took what they wrote personal.

I don't know what moderators go through when the PSF was in operation. But as a consumer, I found that sub-forum to be my favorite place to come and kill a few hours. As Ed Rendell would say, this is another example of the "wussification of America".

Understood. And for the bolded, our answer is, "we don't".

I fully get that some enjoyed the PSF. It just wasn't something that we could continue to offer.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As Ed Rendell would say, this is another example of the "wussification of America".

I’m not sure statements like this will cause Joe to regret his decision.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I want to apologize to @Jayrod. I made a snarky comment to him earlier about the forum being boring and it was wrong on my part.

I want us all to do better with assuming the best of each other - starting with myself as that's definitely something I can do better with.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I want to apologize to @Jayrod. I made a snarky comment to him earlier about the forum being boring and it was wrong on my part.

I want us all to do better with assuming the best of each other - starting with myself as that's definitely something I can do better with.

One week time-out?

 

[Jayrod]

I want to apologize to @Jayrod. I made a snarky comment to him earlier about the forum being boring and it was wrong on my part.

I want us all to do better with assuming the best of each other - starting with myself as that's definitely something I can do better with.

I appreciate it, Joe. You didn't need to do this as I had been out of line earlier that day, but it does mean something to me and takes some cajones to make it public.

I'm endeavoring to improve the quality of my posting as well (yet again). 258th times the charm?

 

[Zow]

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

Perfect.

One great thing about the FFA is nobody is required to have an interest in threads they're not interested in. This will work great for you.

I feel like the logic you are trying to apply with the FFA is the same logic you should have applied to the PSF. If you don't have an interest in politics...don't go to the PSF.

There’s plenty of places you can discuss politics or call some one a “libtard” or “cave-man”. Joe doesn’t owe it to you to give you that forum. It’s odd you feel entitled to it.

I'm not sure I'd say I'm entitled to it, but I'm a consumer looking for a product. Either you offer it or you don't.

I never had a problem with the PSF. I'm not easily offended, so getting bent out of shape because of laughing emojis or bad posters didn't really bother me. Over time I just put certain posters on ignore whose content I felt never added to the discussions but were only used to inflame. It was literally a click of the button. When I posted, I considered someone else's feeling and opinions in my posts. As part of discussing certain topics, it allowed me to state my point of view and argue my position. I tried to back my positions with facts and figures. Sometimes, when I heard counter arguments, it helped mold my position. I can tell you that Tim, fish, Rich Conway and many others on the PSF had different views but I never took what they wrote personal.

I don't know what moderators go through when the PSF was in operation. But as a consumer, I found that sub-forum to be my favorite place to come and kill a few hours. As Ed Rendell would say, this is another example of the "wussification of America".

I genuinely enjoyed the PSF and am bummed it's been eliminated. But I understand why Joe did it and I don't think it has anything to do with the "wussification of America." Joe has been very clear about certain community standards on this board since well before the PSF and I have no doubt that both policing and applying those standards in the PSF became too arduous when you consider the PSF doesn't make the website money. So, it's just purely a business decision.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

the PSF doesn't make the website money. So, it's just purely a business decision

Any smart business man would make the same decision. Why deal with all that drama when it's making you zero money? Unless there are people who feel entitled to that.

 

[shuke]

We dead yet?

 

[dkp993]

We dead yet?

I fear.

 

[dkp993]

@Leroy Hoard - I was joking. Was just a play on words. Though I see how it could be interpreted the other way. So for the record I don’t think the place is dead. There are tons of music drafts yet to come.

 

[Dennis Castro]

Remember that one week when we used to have badges? I never posted so much in my life. Bring back the badges.

 

[Insomniac]

Remember that one week when we used to have badges? I never posted so much in my life. Bring back the badges.

We don't need no stinking badges.

 

[SWC]

As Ed Rendell would say, this is another example of the "wussification of America".

back in the day we would have said that someone demanding they be provided a safe space place online so that they can sit safely inside and anonymously insult others under made up names miles away without any fear of getting punched in the nose was pretty much the pinnacle of wussification but hey i guess thats just one old boy talking take that to the bank brohans

 

[Joe Bryant]

Remember that one week when we used to have badges? I never posted so much in my life. Bring back the badges.

I vaguely remember. Can you elaborate?

 

[bigbottom]

. As Ed Rendell would say, this is another example of the "wussification of America".

back in the day we would have said that someone demanding they be provided a safe space place online so that they can sit safely inside and anonymously insult others under made up names miles away without any fear of getting punched in the nose was pretty much the pinnacle of wussification but hey i guess thats just one old boy talking take that to the bank brohans

This is what I was thinking but I couldn’t figure out how to express it. You nailed it!

 

[CletiusMaximus]

There were some good threads on the PSF.

We should really migrate the Supreme Court thread over here. That was an excellent thread with some good information.

There were a few and exceptionally rare glimmers of good in the PSF. But anything good was completely drowned by the snark and condescension and general toolishness.

The Supreme court thread had good spots, but it's just not something we're going to do here as it's just too close, if not exactly, politics. Thanks.

This could've been a fun week for that topic but yeah, it is almost entirely a political area of discussion these days rather than law/society.