This place is going to die of fear. (1 Viewer)

[GordonGekko]

Excellent marketing there.

You're responding to a poster who had a (apparently) successful strategy of advocating mass reporting until he got the PSF shut down. It seems abusive posts from him are allowed. Not really a mystery why these boards have less traffic.

What a snowflake.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... you're locked in here with me"

- Rorschach, Watchmen



Things are what you make of them. If people want more "value" in this community, then they are best served doing their part to bring that value themselves.

Instead of people complaining about the "good old days", how about appreciating that there were good old days, and being grateful for those experiences instead? Then either adjust to the new format and tone, or leave. Some people want to rack up tens upon tens of thousands of posts, come everyday, sit here for like 20 years or so, and say "I don't care about this place. Who cares? It sucks anyway!"

If it sucks, why are they still here? Whose fault is that if that new "reality" irritates them? The level of Beta in that toxic pathology is simply off the charts. I could build a time machine and send a bunch of you, not all but far too many, back into the 80s, and there would be so much Beta going back through time, that VHS would lose the Format Wars.

Don't like something? Then do something about it. Tangible verifiable action. That's going to get you further than just complaining. Those who speak up have obligated themselves to step up. I've said that same thing since 2006.

Don't like me? Join the club. You'll get over it. Or you won't. Either way is fine with me. But here's the real problem. The same toxic crap that happened in all the years I was gone, if people want to keep that up, who is to say the FFA will last forever? Or be here tomorrow? Trying to make me into the big bad board villain doesn't change that.

I see participation within this community as an opportunity. Everything is an opportunity. Here's a crazy thought for the biggest complainers in this forum, how about a little gratitude? Be grateful that you had good times before. Nothing lasts forever. And try to create some good times today. If people are going to spend countless hours, decades and tens upon tens of thousands of posts and be here every day, then why not take some action to improve the overall circumstances? If you or others voluntarily choose to be here anyway, why not try to make it more hospitable for yourself?

Be all in. Or be all out. How hard is that?

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

Excellent marketing there.

You're responding to a poster who had a (apparently) successful strategy of advocating mass reporting until he got the PSF shut down. It seems abusive posts from him are allowed. Not really a mystery why these boards have less traffic.

What a snowflake.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... you're locked in here with me"

- Rorschach, Watchmen



Things are what you make of them. If people want more "value" in this community, then they are best served doing their part to bring that value themselves.

Instead of people complaining about the "good old days", how about appreciating that there were good old days, and being grateful for those experiences instead? Then either adjust to the new format and tone, or leave. Some people want to rack up tens upon tens of thousands of posts, come everyday, sit here for like 20 years or so, and say "I don't care about this place. Who cares? It sucks anyway!"

If it sucks, why are they still here? Whose fault is that if that new "reality" irritates them? The level of Beta in that toxic pathology is simply off the charts. I could build a time machine and send a bunch of you, not all but far too many, back into the 80s, and there would be so much Beta going back through time, that VHS would lose the Format Wars.

Don't like something? Then do something about it. Tangible verifiable action. That's going to get you further than just complaining. Those who speak up have obligated themselves to step up. I've said that same thing since 2006.

Don't like me? Join the club. You'll get over it. Or you won't. Either way is fine with me. But here's the real problem. The same toxic crap that happened in all the years I was gone, if people want to keep that up, who is to say the FFA will last forever? Or be here tomorrow? Trying to make me into the big bad board villain doesn't change that.

I see participation within this community as an opportunity. Everything is an opportunity. Here's a crazy thought for the biggest complainers in this forum, how about a little gratitude? Be grateful that you had good times before. Nothing lasts forever. And try to create some good times today. If people are going to spend countless hours, decades and tens upon tens of thousands of posts and be here every day, then why not take some action to improve the overall circumstances? If you or others voluntarily choose to be here anyway, why not try to make it more hospitable for yourself?

Be all in. Or be all out. How hard is that?

reaction.

 

[rockaction]

That NBA thread is like the PSF. I avoid the crypto threads like the plague. More drama, less ounces.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

That NBA thread is like the PSF. I avoid the crypto threads like the plague. More drama, less ounces.

to the moon Alice!!

HODL!!!

 

[rockaction]

That NBA thread is like the PSF. I avoid the crypto threads like the plague. More drama, less ounces.

to the moon Alice!!

HODL!!!

Stonks

 

[Joe Bryant]

I expect many of us will be somewhat grayer, balder and heavier, but we’ll still be here.

For what I hope the FFA to be in 5 years, I think it's simply mostly what I hope it is today. A community where friends can gather in our tiny little slice of the online world. Where we can have interesting discussions and be inclusive. Where we can lift each other up when we need it. That was the goal when we started and I feel ok that we've managed to keep a lot of that going for a good long while.

Killing the PSF helped the overall tone of the board immensely. I should have made that move 5 years ago and I apologize for waiting so long. The snark/tool level for all the forums is down about 90% with the PSF gone. We still have some people who seem to love picking fights in the Shark Pool and we have some friction here in the FFA still, but by and large things are good.

For what I'd like to see different, I'd like us to be more inclusive to new people. And I don't think anyone is intentionally exclusive, but when you have a group as old and connected as this one, it's just naturally not as open. I'm the same way. If I'm with a group of old friends, it's naturally easier to catch up with them instead of pulling the new person in from across the room. So if I could change something, I'd encourage us all to be more open to new folks. And try to encourage new folks to join the group.

 

[Scoresman]

Idea: In June when subscriptions and Shark Pool activity ramps up, make an introduction thread here, and a sticky thread in the Shark Pool linking to it, trying to get new blood in here.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

Idea: In June when subscriptions and Shark Pool activity ramps up, make an introduction thread here, and a sticky thread in the Shark Pool linking to it, trying to get new blood in here.

shark pool

 

[Joe Bryant]

Idea: In June when subscriptions and Shark Pool activity ramps up, make an introduction thread here, and a sticky thread in the Shark Pool linking to it, trying to get new blood in here.

That's a great idea.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It falls to hell and sucks when it becomes an uninviting tribal echo chamber

Are you still seeing this here? Since the PSF got nuked, I've seen very little of it.

Sure—it still exists—but you just have to dig to find it. It might be harder to find now because most people just “don’t post“ because of it. I can tell you firsthand that I refrain from posting much of the time when I might have a slightly dissenting opinion. It’s not worth it. I come here to conversate, exchange ideas, in a community where we are supposed to be kind to one another. A lot of people in here seem to only be able to extend kindness to those who they agree with. Most people don’t feel like wasting the energy to post something when they know the result is most likely not going to be discussion—but just a barrage of insults. Until people feel comfortable spending their time and energy here—regardless of what their opinions are—this place won’t get the numbers and involvement that it once used to get.

I dunno, man. I'm certainly not digging to find unpleasantness - here or anywhere else.

I'm just trying to think of a discussion thread here nowadays (post-PSF-shutdown) where this is still happening. I mean, I guess some of the Shark Pool threads can get a little testy, but it doesn't seem like that's what you're talking about.

Where exactly are you seeing this kind of stuff still happening? I'm a little mystified on what you're referring to in this forum's current state.

Are you sure you're not carrying over and projecting based on what that busted sewage pipe of a subforum used to be? It's gone, my friend. Took Joe too long to kill it, but I'm glad he did and banned that kind of crap here.

One can present a point and get several reasonable, well thought out responses, but then gravitate towards the one response that was a little snarky, send some snark back, and the two will end up entwined in an internet honor dual to the death.

Not that it isn't something many of us suffer from, and the idea that it's what new or has caused the decline is pretty out there considering it's actually gotten MUCH better over the years, not worse. Outside of the PSF (where the ratio was more like 10 snarks for every reasonable reply rather than the other way around) it's not even comparable to how bad it used to be. I remember the college football thread in the early 2000's the baseline was pretty much that any discussion of who should play in the title game resulted in two sides that wanted to kill each other. And SEC/Big 10 fans may as well have been the Montagues and Capulets.

If anything it probably has the opposite effect, as drama keeps people coming back. That CFB thread used to move at a thousand pages a minute when everyone was arguing but now it mostly only moves when Cap adds a new punny thread title.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I do think less snark and tool posts can mean fewer posts. And I'm fine with that. A thread that blows up mostly because people are being uncool to each other is one we can do without.

And it often is a just a couple of posters. I do see a lot more folks helping now and telling the two to go get a room somewhere and stop ruining a good thread. That's been a positive.

But in general, there seems to still be a lot of good discussion.

 

[otb2huffing]

I think it’s all cycles. I post and spend less time here than I did years ago—but I still very much enjoy these forums. It’s no different than a lot of things. We were all told that brick and mortar shops were going to be completely replaced with online ordering for years—and sure enough brick and mortar is still here. People are thirsty for experience and for community. If we want this place to come back stronger and more quickly—it’s up to us to bring the community aspect of it back up to par. Joe always says “be cool to one another”. One of the reasons why I spend less time in here and post less is because of the attitudes of a few posters that think it’s okay and cool to clown people for having dissenting opinions on things. Sometimes it’s just easier not to post a thought or engage in a conversation when you can forecast that people will clown you for it as opposed to having a civil conversation about why we might have differing points of view. This place is the most interesting and thrives the most when it is an inviting and civil think tank. It falls to hell and sucks when it becomes an uninviting tribal echo chamber. A lot of people seem to forget that often times you can learn the most from people who see things differently than you—versus learning from those who share the exact same point of views as you.

ALL of this ^

 

[eoMMan]

Maybe do a dancing tik tock while holding a draft board to get younger people here? Or adverstise the FFA on Insta?

 

[JohnnyU]

It just so happens that it's only MOSTLY dead.

In the whole scheme of things, this just isn't that important.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

But in general, there seems to still be a lot of good discussion.

There's a ton of it.

The amount of knowledge still on this "dying" board is staggering. No lie - unless I personally know an expert on a particular subject, I'm asking here first.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The amount of knowledge still on this "dying" board is staggering. No lie - unless I personally know an expert on a particular subject, I'm asking here first.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I expect many of us will be somewhat grayer, balder and heavier, but we’ll still be here.

For what I hope the FFA to be in 5 years, I think it's simply mostly what I hope it is today. A community where friends can gather in our tiny little slice of the online world. Where we can have interesting discussions and be inclusive. Where we can lift each other up when we need it. That was the goal when we started and I feel ok that we've managed to keep a lot of that going for a good long while.

Killing the PSF helped the overall tone of the board immensely. I should have made that move 5 years ago and I apologize for waiting so long. The snark/tool level for all the forums is down about 90% with the PSF gone. We still have some people who seem to love picking fights in the Shark Pool and we have some friction here in the FFA still, but by and large things are good.

For what I'd like to see different, I'd like us to be more inclusive to new people. And I don't think anyone is intentionally exclusive, but when you have a group as old and connected as this one, it's just naturally not as open. I'm the same way. If I'm with a group of old friends, it's naturally easier to catch up with them instead of pulling the new person in from across the room. So if I could change something, I'd encourage us all to be more open to new folks. And try to encourage new folks to join the group.

There were some good threads on the PSF.

We should really migrate the Supreme Court thread over here. That was an excellent thread with some good information.

 

[Scoresman]

I expect many of us will be somewhat grayer, balder and heavier, but we’ll still be here.

For what I hope the FFA to be in 5 years, I think it's simply mostly what I hope it is today. A community where friends can gather in our tiny little slice of the online world. Where we can have interesting discussions and be inclusive. Where we can lift each other up when we need it. That was the goal when we started and I feel ok that we've managed to keep a lot of that going for a good long while.

Killing the PSF helped the overall tone of the board immensely. I should have made that move 5 years ago and I apologize for waiting so long. The snark/tool level for all the forums is down about 90% with the PSF gone. We still have some people who seem to love picking fights in the Shark Pool and we have some friction here in the FFA still, but by and large things are good.

For what I'd like to see different, I'd like us to be more inclusive to new people. And I don't think anyone is intentionally exclusive, but when you have a group as old and connected as this one, it's just naturally not as open. I'm the same way. If I'm with a group of old friends, it's naturally easier to catch up with them instead of pulling the new person in from across the room. So if I could change something, I'd encourage us all to be more open to new folks. And try to encourage new folks to join the group.

There were some good threads on the PSF.

We should really migrate the Supreme Court thread over here. That was an excellent thread with some good information.

That would be good until the next time a president has to make a nomination.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There were some good threads on the PSF.

We should really migrate the Supreme Court thread over here. That was an excellent thread with some good information.

There were a few and exceptionally rare glimmers of good in the PSF. But anything good was completely drowned by the snark and condescension and general toolishness.

The Supreme court thread had good spots, but it's just not something we're going to do here as it's just too close, if not exactly, politics. Thanks.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Idea: In June when subscriptions and Shark Pool activity ramps up, make an introduction thread here, and a sticky thread in the Shark Pool linking to it, trying to get new blood in here.

I love this idea. And again, I don't think anyone is intentionally exclusive. It just sort of naturally happens in any group as established as we are. Thank y'all for helping us work on this.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

FFA has been humming along just fine, imo. The discussion in this thread is likely counterproductive though.

Has it? It used to be that the NHL thread moved pretty fast. We are five months into the season now, and that thread is merely at 8 pages. Feels like it would have reached 8 pages by Thanksgiving years ago. I think the combination of many posters leaving, a lack of new posters, and certain changes here have all contributed to less traffic and interest. Many posters who often had great stories and anecdotes were driven away because their stories might not go over well with the Sunday church crowd Joe seems to want to win over. I get it, "this is how we are doing things now," but remember how the NFL was called the No Fun League for Years? This now the NFF - the No Fun Forum.

Ehh. Every forum I go to is dying. People spend time on tg or discord and reddit and linear thread sites are dying.

Not sure how it took until page 9 for this to come up. This is the only forum that I frequented back in the day that even still exists.

Great point. It seems to me like this forum has had a really remarkable run.

 

[Juxtatarot]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

 

[SWC]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

i remember those posters being difficult even in things like music draft threads i mean how do you even do that so hey there you have it take that to the bank brohans

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

It's almost like most of them were from another place.

 

[GordonGekko]

No thank you. I’ll continue participating as I have.

Let me run a hypothetical by you.

How about we incentivize it.

You come up with some ideas to increase positive engagement, posting, thread starting and participation in the FFA, and you organize it, run it and enforce it. This would naturally include culling out bad faith actors. We'd have to talk about what would work or not work, hash out the limits and details of course and come to some viable agreement.

In exchange, I'll provide prizes and for your contribution, we can come up with a raw number for a single donation to a worthwhile charity of your choice.

An example for a monthly prize would be, for example, I pay their electricity/gas bill for that month.

If something like that interests you, contact me in private.

 

[bigbottom]

No thank you. I’ll continue participating as I have.

Let me run a hypothetical by you.

How about we incentivize it.

You come up with some ideas to increase positive engagement, posting, thread starting and participation in the FFA, and you organize it, run it and enforce it. This would naturally include culling out bad faith actors. We'd have to talk about what would work or not work, hash out the limits and details of course and come to some viable agreement.

In exchange, I'll provide prizes and for your contribution, we can come up with a raw number for a single donation to a worthwhile charity of your choice.

An example for a monthly prize would be, for example, I pay their electricity/gas bill for that month.

If something like that interests you, contact me in private.

While I do like the incentive idea, I am one of the posters here who is perfectly happy with the FFA in its current state, as I expressed clearly upthread.

 

[Schmeabs]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

Not true, I still see many of them posting in FFA.

 

[Snotbubbles]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

Not true, I still see many of them posting in FFA.

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

Perfect.

One great thing about the FFA is nobody is required to have an interest in threads they're not interested in. This will work great for you.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Most of them moved to discord and a few of them moved to another ff site. It is interesting to see how they behave with little to no moderation, about as expected. I am grateful Joe got rid of the PSF because I would find myself getting worked up and engaging in the slap fights many times. And it usually had more to do with "being right" than actual political debate. I quit watching the news years ago and now that I have cut out online consumption of political clickbait life is much more pleasant.

Thank you. I've found a similar experience in things being more pleasant without it. I can still be informed, but that's enough.

 

[dkp993]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

Most of them moved to discord and a few of them moved to another ff site. It is interesting to see how they behave with little to no moderation, about as expected. I am grateful Joe got rid of the PSF because I would find myself getting worked up and engaging in the slap fights many times. And it usually had more to do with "being right" than actual political debate. I quit watching the news years ago and now that I have cut out online consumption of political clickbait life is much more pleasant.

Although, I must sheepishly admit, there are a few lawyers here I would like to say "I told you so" regarding a certain event last August

Disagree BB. While some did move over to Discord it’s not the same people who were causing issues imo. The Discord group has been very civil with a fair amount of discussion. While I’d like to see more right leaning peeps there (there’s only a handful now) it’s far from what the PSF was toxicity wise and has very little trolling behavior.

Now the other site you mentioned, well that a whole nother story. But it was that way long before the PSF shut down.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

Perfect.

One great thing about the FFA is nobody is required to have an interest in threads they're not interested in. This will work great for you.

I feel like the logic you are trying to apply with the FFA is the same logic you should have applied to the PSF. If you don't have an interest in politics...don't go to the PSF.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

Perfect.

One great thing about the FFA is nobody is required to have an interest in threads they're not interested in. This will work great for you.

I feel like the logic you are trying to apply with the FFA is the same logic you should have applied to the PSF. If you don't have an interest in politics...don't go to the PSF.

Not to relitigate this or anything, but the PSF seemed like kind of a nightmare to moderate. I never got involved in these sorts of dust-ups, but do you remember, for example, how people used to get seriously mad over who reacted to what post with which emoji? I mean, people had knock-down drag-out fights over the use of an emoji. It's fine to tell people not to venture into that forum if you're not up for that sort of thing, but at some point you have to make a business decision about whether this is really the best use of your mods' time.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yeah, I liked posting in the PSF, but I don't really have an interest in posting in the "How many times do you wash your car" thread.

Perfect.

One great thing about the FFA is nobody is required to have an interest in threads they're not interested in. This will work great for you.

I feel like the logic you are trying to apply with the FFA is the same logic you should have applied to the PSF. If you don't have an interest in politics...don't go to the PSF.

There’s plenty of places you can discuss politics or call some one a “libtard” or “cave-man”. Joe doesn’t owe it to you to give you that forum. It’s odd you feel entitled to it.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Not to relitigate this or anything, but the PSF seemed like kind of a nightmare to moderate. I never got involved in these sorts of dust-ups, but do you remember, for example, how people used to get seriously mad over who reacted to what post with which emoji? I mean, people had knock-down drag-out fights over the use of an emoji. It's fine to tell people not to venture into that forum if you're not up for that sort of thing, but at some point you have to make a business decision about whether this is really the best use of your mods' time.

It's not a nightmare if you don't have a business tied to it. Simply boot bad actors and move on.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Most of them moved to discord and a few of them moved to another ff site. It is interesting to see how they behave with little to no moderation, about as expected. I am grateful Joe got rid of the PSF because I would find myself getting worked up and engaging in the slap fights many times. And it usually had more to do with "being right" than actual political debate. I quit watching the news years ago and now that I have cut out online consumption of political clickbait life is much more pleasant.

You should clarify that you're not referring to the Discord when you say "little to no moderation". If that was the case you wouldn't have been banned.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's not a nightmare if you don't have a business tied to it. Simply boot bad actors and move on.

Thank you @Captain Cranks Honestly though, the excessive suspending is ugly even without a business. It just sucks. 90% of the people who are suspended think we are totally unfair and inconsistent. It's always "the other" guy who did the real thing and they did "nothing". It's a never ending back and forth that's just ugly. So glad to be out of that forum. I've lost count of the times someone would post here that they were treated unfairly and then I'd look at the moderator record and it was laughable at how far over the line they were. But they'd always play the "who me?"

But you are right that there were a fair number of people who say they'll never buy a subscription again because of a suspension. And that's unfortunate.

But bottom line, way better now without the PSF.

 

[Jayrod]

All of this sounds great, however we've also gotten rid of the ability to have difficult discussions in the FFA. Used to be (pre-PSF) an occasional confrontational topic would come up and we'd debate it. I'm sure it got ugly at times, but such was the nature of those discussions. Now everything controversial is shut down, even if it has nothing to do with politics but simply humanity or social disagreements.

I personally find this a bit sad because this was the one place where I could discuss these types of things with people with dissenting opinions and actually gain a broader perspective. I learned something on more than one occasion. Now every topic is so milquetoast or inconsequential there isn't any chance for real disagreements. I'm sure it's easier to moderate but easier isn't always better.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

All of this sounds great, however we've also gotten rid of the ability to have difficult discussions in the FFA. Used to be (pre-PSF) an occasional confrontational topic would come up and we'd debate it. I'm sure it got ugly at times, but such was the nature of those discussions. Now everything controversial is shut down, even if it has nothing to do with politics but simply humanity or social disagreements.

I personally find this a bit sad because this was the one place where I could discuss these types of things with people with dissenting opinions and actually gain a broader perspective. I learned something on more than one occasion. Now every topic is so milquetoast or inconsequential there isn't any chance for real disagreements. I'm sure it's easier to moderate but easier isn't always better.

We all think we were the unicorn. You know, the one who only wanted honest discourse while almost everyone else was a jerk. The mirror was cracked, man.

 

[Jayrod]

All of this sounds great, however we've also gotten rid of the ability to have difficult discussions in the FFA. Used to be (pre-PSF) an occasional confrontational topic would come up and we'd debate it. I'm sure it got ugly at times, but such was the nature of those discussions. Now everything controversial is shut down, even if it has nothing to do with politics but simply humanity or social disagreements.

I personally find this a bit sad because this was the one place where I could discuss these types of things with people with dissenting opinions and actually gain a broader perspective. I learned something on more than one occasion. Now every topic is so milquetoast or inconsequential there isn't any chance for real disagreements. I'm sure it's easier to moderate but easier isn't always better.

We all think we were the unicorn. You know, the one who only wanted honest discourse while almost everyone else was a jerk. The mirror was cracked, man.

No, I readily admit I was arrogant jerk at times. Still learned some things, ate some crow, etc.

 

[dkp993]

All of this sounds great, however we've also gotten rid of the ability to have difficult discussions in the FFA. Used to be (pre-PSF) an occasional confrontational topic would come up and we'd debate it. I'm sure it got ugly at times, but such was the nature of those discussions. Now everything controversial is shut down, even if it has nothing to do with politics but simply humanity or social disagreements.

I personally find this a bit sad because this was the one place where I could discuss these types of things with people with dissenting opinions and actually gain a broader perspective. I learned something on more than one occasion. Now every topic is so milquetoast or inconsequential there isn't any chance for real disagreements. I'm sure it's easier to moderate but easier isn't always better.

Agree. Everything is whitewashed and surface level, not much can be really discussed as it gets trimmed or shut down. It’s a shame. There are a ton of really smart good people here and to have the talk basically be limited to music drafts and TV shows is… sad.

I know I bust @GordonGekko chops at times and much of his shtick is frustrating (to use a kind word) but he is attempting to create topics of discussion. Unfortunately most go nowhere as we can’t really talk honestly and openly about anything that inspires passion. Again it’s a shame.*

* And for clarity sake I’m not blaming or laying this on @Joe Bryant’s feet. He’s in an impossible situation that is having to deal with the inherent conflict based nature of society today. I’m just lamenting lack of any real substantive opinion based talk Is all. But hey we’ve always got music drafts to fall back on so I guess there’s that.

 

[bigbottom]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Everything is whitewashed

Can you go into more detail on this?

 

[dkp993]

Everything is whitewashed

Can you go into more detail on this?

In my opinion (and I stress that point heavily) it’s happening in 2 ways. Philosophically and via moderation.

Philosophically it’s in what’s allowed topic wise to be discussed or posted.

Moderation wise it’s via editing or deleting of posts (which is happening) that even approach the philosophically off limits.


* and again to be extra clear, I’m not saying I have all the right answers on how to do it. It’s an impossible task, and you have three choices here. 1. Complete open forum discussion with no moderation - this is brutal and often turns real bad real quick. 2. Highly limited (ie football only) talk - this is obviously very restrictive. 3. Moderation of topics and opinions- this obviously has a million shades of gray in it’s application and often leads to lots of complaining. Joe has chosen #3 and I’m grateful for it as it gives us this place. But his gray line is just different then mine would be. That’s neither right nor wrong. Just different. And to me it‘s whitewashed more then I’d prefer.

 

[Jayrod]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

I had one deleted a few weeks ago about an LGBTQ issue. That same day another thread was locked for getting too heated even though it really had nothing to do with politics. I learned my lesson and haven't made an attempt since.

Read the first page and name one remotely controversial topic being discussed. Heck this is probably the most controversial thread still active in the whole FFA. All that we have are sports and entertainment threads with the occasional well-wishing type or family oriented topic (kids, vacations, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to read the NBA thread every day and peruse other threads from time to time, but I just visit less often and stay for shorter periods.

 

[bigbottom]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

I had one deleted a few weeks ago about an LGBTQ issue. That same day another thread was locked for getting too heated even though it really had nothing to do with politics. I learned my lesson and haven't made an attempt since.

Read the first page and name one remotely controversial topic being discussed. Heck this is probably the most controversial thread still active in the whole FFA. All that we have are sports and entertainment threads with the occasional well-wishing type or family oriented topic (kids, vacations, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to read the NBA thread every day and peruse other threads from time to time, but I just visit less often and stay for shorter periods.

Have FFA threads historically been controversial (at least during the period of time that we had the PSF)? The kinds of non-controversial threads you mention are the FFA topics that I remember participating in when we had the PSF. Of course, way back when (and pre-PSF) we had the evolution debate and Russian bride draft in the FFA, but that was a long time ago. But I agree that we should be able to debate controversial topics so long as they are not political in nature and people aren’t tools. I do recall some fairly straightforward back and forth in the rent hike and tipping threads.

 

[The Commish]

It’s interesting that almost all the posters who made the PF so bad aren’t around anymore.

Most of them moved to discord and a few of them moved to another ff site. It is interesting to see how they behave with little to no moderation, about as expected. I am grateful Joe got rid of the PSF because I would find myself getting worked up and engaging in the slap fights many times. And it usually had more to do with "being right" than actual political debate. I quit watching the news years ago and now that I have cut out online consumption of political clickbait life is much more pleasant.

Although, I must sheepishly admit, there are a few lawyers here I would like to say "I told you so" regarding a certain event last August

Almost every single one who posts on the discord channels are still posting here in the FFA I can't speak to the other "ff site", but for discord it's worked well having a zero-tolerance policy addressing the posters and not the posts. Keep it on topic and there isn't a problem...focus on the posters and you aren't there long.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

I had one deleted a few weeks ago about an LGBTQ issue. That same day another thread was locked for getting too heated even though it really had nothing to do with politics. I learned my lesson and haven't made an attempt since.

Read the first page and name one remotely controversial topic being discussed. Heck this is probably the most controversial thread still active in the whole FFA. All that we have are sports and entertainment threads with the occasional well-wishing type or family oriented topic (kids, vacations, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to read the NBA thread every day and peruse other threads from time to time, but I just visit less often and stay for shorter periods.

I know the thread you're talking about. Look, I know you're not one of the problem children here, and I really do sympathize with your desire to talk about some of this stuff. But we tried that for years in the PSF, and it just didn't work. We don't need to debate why it didn't work -- what's important is that it just didn't. There was no possibility at all, none, for that thread to stay within earshot of civil. This wasn't one of those "shades of gray" topics like the covid thread or the Twitter thread. It was on the fast lane to the PSF hellscape.

I'm okay with being labeled a pessimist on this topic, but I honestly don't think people can talk civilly about anything political any more. Not on an anonymous platform.

 

[belljr]

Are non-political topics being shut down in the FFA with any regularity? I haven’t noticed that, but I could be wrong.

I know I've had a few innocuous jokes deleted so it really isn't worth the effort anymore

 

[massraider]

I know I've had a few innocuous jokes deleted so it really isn't worth the effort anymore

Boundaries have been pretty clear forever, and I figure now if anything gets people heated, they would rather just eliminate. Like the Andrew Tate thread.