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Thomas Jones with Benson in rear view mirror (1 Viewer)

they drafted Lewis because they wanted a ball-control battering ram. Priest is not that guy.
Sounds eerily similar to, if not exactly the same as the current Chicago Bears situation...
 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
If Priest Holmes was any good, why did the Ravens draft Jamal Lewis? He had 3 years in Baltimore, and yet the Ravens opted to draft Lewis.
That's a slow-pitch softball: they drafted Lewis because Holmes had gotten injured and they realized that giving 200+ carries to Eric Rhett is not how you win Super Bowls.Holmes was successful in Baltimore, and was supplanted by a guy who later ran for 2000 yards. Neither Shipp nor Pittman has ever run for 1000 yards. No comparison.
Who gives a flying #### what Shipp or Pittman has done? Colin stated that plenty of players have gone on to other teams and had success. (Actually, he used the word "littered" which may be putting things a little strongly, but I digress.)Priest Holmes would seem to be the poster boy for that category.

It is irrelevant why the Ravens got rid of Holmes (or let him leave). The fact is that he did not succeed in Baltimore - at least not to the extent that they wanted to keep him. In fact, they replaced him!

Softball my ###.
You're arguing the reverse point if you're arguing for TJ staying the starter in Chi-town. Thomas Jones was there, and Benson was drafted. In your example, Priest was there and Jamal was drafted, and Priest was sent packing for the ball control RB. Equating your example to the current one means TJ will be sent packing for the ball control RB just like Priest was.
 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
If Priest Holmes was any good, why did the Ravens draft Jamal Lewis? He had 3 years in Baltimore, and yet the Ravens opted to draft Lewis.
That's a slow-pitch softball: they drafted Lewis because Holmes had gotten injured and they realized that giving 200+ carries to Eric Rhett is not how you win Super Bowls.Holmes was successful in Baltimore, and was supplanted by a guy who later ran for 2000 yards. Neither Shipp nor Pittman has ever run for 1000 yards. No comparison.
Who gives a flying #### what Shipp or Pittman has done? Colin stated that plenty of players have gone on to other teams and had success. (Actually, he used the word "littered" which may be putting things a little strongly, but I digress.)Priest Holmes would seem to be the poster boy for that category.

It is irrelevant why the Ravens got rid of Holmes (or let him leave). The fact is that he did not succeed in Baltimore - at least not to the extent that they wanted to keep him. In fact, they replaced him!

Softball my ###.
You're arguing the reverse point if you're arguing for TJ staying the starter in Chi-town. Thomas Jones was there, and Benson was drafted. In your example, Priest was there and Jamal was drafted, and Priest was sent packing for the ball control RB. Equating your example to the current one means TJ will be sent packing for the ball control RB just like Priest was.
I brought up Priest as an example of someone that had failed in one place and had success at with a subsequent team.I draw no analogies to the Bears situation. However, if you would like to do so, be my guest.

 
Dunn was in Atlanta and they drafted Duckett. Seems to be working out just fine. I believe that the Falcons led the NFL in rushing last year (I know that Vick has a pretty big impact on that stat).TJ should remain the starter with Benson getting worked in the mix for short yardage and to give TJ a breather.Do y'all remember what happened when the Vikings started messing with their successful running attack last year? It fell appart :wall: After Moore had 3-4 great games of combined yardage, albeit no TD's, Tice inserted the Whizzanator and the running game really never got back on track the rest of the season. Long winded way of agreeing with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"ROOK

 
Lots of good discussion here. I'll say this: That the Bears have a Bye in Week 4 is a good thing for Benson because he will have 2 solid weeks of practice to get into the system. I think Jones is playing well but the fact of the matter is the Bears won't play Benson in significant situations very much until he can play without hurting the team. If that means a missed block or lining up wrong then that's what that means. I think the Bears will emphasize getting Benson up to speed because he is a rare, rare talent and they'll have the time to pay extra attention to him because they'll not be gameplanning for at least a week. At least in a rushed fashion like you have to week to week in the NFL. Cedric will get TUTORED my friends. It's not like this guy is chopped liver, some 4th round pick that a coach doesn't feel rushed to get on the field. This guy is mega talented. I read where an NFL GM said he was THE BEST goalline runner HE HAD EVER SCOUTED. That's just an example. As for blocking, it would appear from this guys physical skills that he can do it from a strength and toughness perspective. That goes a long way right there. Returning though, we have no idea how fast he'll progress in the Bears' system or when he'll be better at helping the Bears win games than Thomas Jones. But from a sheer talent standpoint I'm not betting against the guy. And oh yeah, he'll get A LOT of work during the bye weeks. Why not? Why beat up your current starter, Jones, when he's been in camp and with the team during preseason absorbing the new OC's offense? Keep him healthy, he knows what he's doing and is valuable to the team right now. Throw Benson in there for a babtism by fire for 10 out of the 14 practice days and keep the perpetually dinged Jones healthy for Week 5. In closing, when Cedric is ready, he'll take the job and not look back. This is a MAN ladies and gentleman. If the Bears wanted a RB who could run between the tackles because that's the type of offense they wanted to run, a power running attack, then they drafted THE RIGHT GUY. :football:

 
I brought up Priest as an example of someone that had failed in one place and had success at with a subsequent team.

I draw no analogies to the Bears situation. However, if you would like to do so, be my guest.
Priest didn't fail in Baltimore; he had a 1000-yard season and averaged over 4.5 ypc. His only failure was getting injured.
 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
If Priest Holmes was any good, why did the Ravens draft Jamal Lewis? He had 3 years in Baltimore, and yet the Ravens opted to draft Lewis.
That's a slow-pitch softball: they drafted Lewis because Holmes had gotten injured and they realized that giving 200+ carries to Eric Rhett is not how you win Super Bowls.Holmes was successful in Baltimore, and was supplanted by a guy who later ran for 2000 yards. Neither Shipp nor Pittman has ever run for 1000 yards. No comparison.
Who gives a flying #### what Shipp or Pittman has done? Colin stated that plenty of players have gone on to other teams and had success. (Actually, he used the word "littered" which may be putting things a little strongly, but I digress.)Priest Holmes would seem to be the poster boy for that category.

It is irrelevant why the Ravens got rid of Holmes (or let him leave). The fact is that he did not succeed in Baltimore - at least not to the extent that they wanted to keep him. In fact, they replaced him!

Softball my ###.
Actually, the argument bodes well for THomas Jones. The fact that Benson was drafted doesn't implicitly mean that Jones is not talented (a la Priest) but rather that the team wanted a different type of runner (Jamal = Benson). Colin
Priest is not a good argument. I want an example of a guy failing on two different teams, Priest is an example of a system back finding his system, after one stop. Besides that Priest ran for a 1000 at Bal, not exactly failing.
 
Former NFL GM Pat Kirwin loves Benson.  He commented today on how Ced got 14 carries last week, and that he will continue to grab a bigger and bigger share of the load until he eventually is carrying the WHOLE load in several weeks.  As much as I'd like that to happen, I don't think he's seeing the big picture.  Benson's carries were largely in garbage time, and if T.J. keeps running the way he is, and if the Bears win more than they lose, it will be hard to get Jones out of the lineup, IMO.
He got most of the carries during garbage time when the Bears were up by 24 points and at a series with Jeff Blake in there...http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/gamebook/NFL_20050918_DET@CHI

He had 3 carries for 11 yards in the first half and at that point the Bears were up 31-6.

5 carries for 19 yards in the 3rd quarter. 3 of which were for NO gain.

Thomas Jones then went in early in the 4th quarter for his 2nd TD.

And then Benson toted the rock the rest of the way in the 4th quarter, on one series he had five carries for NO gain, or tackled for a loss.

So I still fail to see why everybody thinks he's going to overtake Thomas Jones. If Detroit's run defense was so bad, then how come Jones averaged almost 7 yards per carry and Ced-Ben struggled, finishing with: 16 carries for 49 yards, and a measely 3.1 ypc average.

And if Pat Kirwin were such a 'guru', how come he's not employed by an NFL team?
And if GRIDIRON ASSASSIN were such a 'guru', how come he's not employed by an NFL team?
Touche' PMS Guy.
 
Former NFL GM Pat Kirwin loves Benson.  He commented today on how Ced got 14 carries last week, and that he will continue to grab a bigger and bigger share of the load until he eventually is carrying the WHOLE load in several weeks.  As much as I'd like that to happen, I don't think he's seeing the big picture.  Benson's carries were largely in garbage time, and if T.J. keeps running the way he is, and if the Bears win more than they lose, it will be hard to get Jones out of the lineup, IMO.
He got most of the carries during garbage time when the Bears were up by 24 points and at a series with Jeff Blake in there...http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/gamebook/NFL_20050918_DET@CHI

He had 3 carries for 11 yards in the first half and at that point the Bears were up 31-6.

5 carries for 19 yards in the 3rd quarter. 3 of which were for NO gain.

Thomas Jones then went in early in the 4th quarter for his 2nd TD.

And then Benson toted the rock the rest of the way in the 4th quarter, on one series he had five carries for NO gain, or tackled for a loss.

So I still fail to see why everybody thinks he's going to overtake Thomas Jones. If Detroit's run defense was so bad, then how come Jones averaged almost 7 yards per carry and Ced-Ben struggled, finishing with: 16 carries for 49 yards, and a measely 3.1 ypc average.

And if Pat Kirwin were such a 'guru', how come he's not employed by an NFL team?
And if GRIDIRON ASSASSIN were such a 'guru', how come he's not employed by an NFL team?
Touche' PMS Guy.
Beats calling me POS Guy :goodposting:
 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
:goodposting: LOL.

But -- I gotta point out -- TJ is averaging 4.9 yards a carry -- Benson 3.1.

If you saw last week's game, you know Benson only got in after the game was out of hand. If this game is close, or the Bears are losing, Benson's carries will go DOWN this week -- barring injury, he ain't topping last weeks 16 attempts. Lucky to get 8.

A word of encouragement for Benson owners-- Bears haven't had a snap from inside the opponents 5 yard line this year. I'm thinking if they get one this week, Benson goes in as the short yardage back.

I predict 8 carries, 30 yards, and 50/50 he gets a short yardage TD.

 
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Big Cedric fan here, but I gotta say that TJ is, and should be, the #1 RB until he stops producing or he get's hurt; the Bears would be idiots to start Cedr... let me rephrase that, the idiot Bears will hopefully start to grow a brain and keep TJ in there.

 
LOL @ Grid and PRS.Very good point made about the bye week helping Benson become more involved.Im hoping for a good showing from Jones this week against the Bengals then will be looking to sell at a premium.If not then I will keep him and see how this develops.

 
Lots of good discussion here. I'll say this: That the Bears have a Bye in Week 4 is a good thing for Benson because he will have 2 solid weeks of practice to get into the system. I think Jones is playing well but the fact of the matter is the Bears won't play Benson in significant situations very much until he can play without hurting the team. If that means a missed block or lining up wrong then that's what that means.

I think the Bears will emphasize getting Benson up to speed because he is a rare, rare talent and they'll have the time to pay extra attention to him because they'll not be gameplanning for at least a week. At least in a rushed fashion like you have to week to week in the NFL. Cedric will get TUTORED my friends. It's not like this guy is chopped liver, some 4th round pick that a coach doesn't feel rushed to get on the field. This guy is mega talented. I read where an NFL GM said he was THE BEST goalline runner HE HAD EVER SCOUTED. That's just an example. As for blocking, it would appear from this guys physical skills that he can do it from a strength and toughness perspective. That goes a long way right there.

Returning though, we have no idea how fast he'll progress in the Bears' system or when he'll be better at helping the Bears win games than Thomas Jones. But from a sheer talent standpoint I'm not betting against the guy. And oh yeah, he'll get A LOT of work during the bye weeks. Why not? Why beat up your current starter, Jones, when he's been in camp and with the team during preseason absorbing the new OC's offense? Keep him healthy, he knows what he's doing and is valuable to the team right now. Throw Benson in there for a babtism by fire for 10 out of the 14 practice days and keep the perpetually dinged Jones healthy for Week 5.

In closing, when Cedric is ready, he'll take the job and not look back. This is a MAN ladies and gentleman. If the Bears wanted a RB who could run between the tackles because that's the type of offense they wanted to run, a power running attack, then they drafted THE RIGHT GUY. :football:
I seriously doubt the Bears will have 14 practice days during their bye week(s). Most teams give the players at least a couple of days off during that period and don't practice in full pads for more than a few days to "beat up" their starting RB. I think the main thing that will limit Benson is his pass protection, as you don't want to have two rookies in the backfield early in the season, and Benson will have to be at least close to Jones in pass protection to get much more time.

Priest is not a good argument. I want an example of a guy failing on two different teams, Priest is an example of a system back finding his system, after one stop. Besides that Priest ran for a 1000 at Bal, not exactly failing.
Jones didn't fail in TB. When he got the starting job there, he did awesome, as shown by Colin's stats. Then, at the end of that season, he was a FA and Chicago signed him in like the first hour of free agency to a big contract.
 
I gave examples...HEarst, Crockett, T. Jones...why does everyone rely so much on history instead of what's staring them in the face?

 
I gave examples...HEarst, Crockett, T. Jones...why does everyone rely so much on history instead of what's staring them in the face?
Hearst was a 1000-yard rusher in Arizona. Crockett is a specialist. Jones is an overrated flash in the pan.
 
Big Cedric fan here, but I gotta say that TJ is, and should be, the #1 RB until he stops producing or he get's hurt; the Bears would be idiots to start Cedr... let me rephrase that, the idiot Bears will hopefully start to grow a brain and keep TJ in there.
YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT MY FRIEND!! :thumbup:
 
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I gave examples...HEarst, Crockett, T. Jones...why does everyone rely so much on history instead of what's staring them in the face?
Hearst was a 1000-yard rusher in Arizona. Crockett is a specialist. Jones is an overrated flash in the pan.
Weak. You apparently aren't interested in evidence, just disagreement. Fine. Enjoy the "Thomas Jones Sucks" bandwagon all by your lonesome as he has another better than average year.Colin

 
I gave examples...HEarst, Crockett, T. Jones...why does everyone rely so much on history instead of what's staring them in the face?
Hearst was a 1000-yard rusher in Arizona. Crockett is a specialist. Jones is an overrated flash in the pan.
If Thomas Jones is a flash in the pan then your kitchen is burning down.The guy has had serious problems staying healthy throughout his career. That is the main thing that has limited his opportunities.

Last year was the 1st time he ever got a consistent ammount of action although he was hurt for some of this time as well and played for a truly horrid offense once Grossman went down.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187390/gamelogs/2004

Thomas Jones did well last year despite not much else working for the Bears offense early on in the year before he got injured:

09/12 DET 21 67 yards 3.2 avg 2 TD 6 catch 38 yards

09/19 @GB 23 152 yards 6.6 avg 1 TD 1 catch 7 yards

09/26 @MIN 22 110 yards 5.0 avg 1 TD 8 catch 71 yards

10/03 PHI 13 32 yards 2.5 avg 6 catch 40 yards

10/17 WAS 24 97 yards 4.0 avg 2 catch 22 yards

10/24 @TB 13 52 yards 4.0 1 TD 3 catch 13 yards

Yeah Philly shut him down in week 4 pretty well he only had 72 yards on 19 combined touches. But that is Philly they have a good defense. Washington had a very good defense last year too but he did well against them. Then he struggled against Tampa Bay who also has a very good defense. He did score though.

Next 3 games he only had one carry and was injured. Maybe he got hurt during the Tampa game I am not sure as I do not remember.

Then he comes back into action:

11/21 IND 18 59 yards 3.3 avg 4 catch 23 yards

11/25 @DAL 14 46 yards 3.3 6 catch 48 yards

12/05 MIN 15 49 yards 3.3 avg 3 catch 22 yards

12/12 @JAC 13 26 yards 2.0 avg 3 catch 68 yards

12/19 HOU 15 40 yards 2.7 avg 7 catch 37 yards

Pretty clearly struggling 82 94 71 94 77 combined yards in these games poor ypc. Bears team still sucks and he might not be fully healthy yet. Then again those combined yardage totals are really not that bad either. JAX was his worst game another very good run defense.

12/26 @DET 22 109 yards 5.0 avg 4 catch 34 yards

01/02 GB 26 108 yards 4.2 avg 3 catch 4 yards

Not bad for the last 2 weeks although he did not score. Thomas Jones did not score a TD after he got injured.

To me this is a player being successful. He is not elite but he is not a failure either. His performance is comparable to many other Rbs who are considered elite during rough patches of thier careers as well.

Thomas Jones still only had 240 total carries due to missing time for 3 weeks when injured but that is 100 more carries than he has ever had before in a season during his career. He fell just short of 1000 yards rushing on the season at 948 on the year. Then amazingly he added a total of 56 catches for another 427 yards. Thats 1375 total yards. I would hardly call that a flash in the pan unless you mean that last year will be the peak of Thomas Jones career and he will never match or exceed this performance again.

Benson is clearly a threat to his playing time and so that is possible but if he does not do well this year because of Benson taking his opportunities I do not think it would be fair to say that he is not a success because of lack of ability or talent.

Just to put things a bit into perspective here future HOF Rb Curtis Martins career:

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1995 nwe | 16 | 368 1487 4.0 14 | 30 261 8.7 1 |

| 1996 nwe | 16 | 316 1152 3.6 14 | 46 333 7.2 3 |

| 1997 nwe | 13 | 274 1160 4.2 4 | 41 296 7.2 1 |

| 1998 nyj | 15 | 369 1287 3.5 8 | 43 365 8.5 1 |

| 1999 nyj | 16 | 367 1464 4.0 5 | 45 259 5.8 0 |

| 2000 nyj | 16 | 316 1204 3.8 9 | 70 508 7.3 2 |

| 2001 nyj | 16 | 333 1513 4.5 10 | 53 320 6.0 0 |

| 2002 nyj | 16 | 261 1094 4.2 7 | 49 362 7.4 0 |

| 2003 nyj | 16 | 323 1308 4.0 2 | 42 262 6.2 0 |

| 2004 nyj | 16 | 371 1697 4.6 12 | 41 245 6.0 2 |

Thomas Jones actualy did slightly better than Curtis Martin in Martins only season that he played in only 13 games. Martin did have 15 more touches though in 1997 than Jones had in 2004. I do believe that Martins coaching and supporting cast were a lot better that year (and during his career) than Thomas Jones had last year.

What makes Martin a future HOF Rb is his toughness. Somthing Jones has never had.

But Jones does have talent and ability. I think he has proven that.

 
I read where an NFL GM said he was THE BEST goalline runner HE HAD EVER SCOUTED. That's just an example.
If you're remembering this right, that GM is ... uh, well, probably not very experienced. Benson was pretty good as a goal line back in college, but to say that about him is a bit of a stretch. I didn't even like him among the other 3 top RBs, largely because Benson usually had mediocre games against highly ranked teams in college. Not a good sign. His game in college was based on brute strength and running over people. I have a hard time seeing that translating well into a league where everyone is his size or bigger. It certainly hasn't worked so far. For some reason, people view him as a bruising type back, but he's actually smaller than Thomas Jones in almost every way. Jones upper body is certainly much stronger, and the leg strength seems comparable. Either way, Jones was a very good short yardage and goal line back for the Bears last year. In fact, he led the league in TD% inside the 5 or 10 last year. How many people realize that?

A word of encouragement for Benson owners-- Bears haven't had a snap from inside the opponents 5 yard line this year. I'm thinking if they get one this week, Benson goes in as the short yardage back.

I predict 8 carries, 30 yards, and 50/50 he gets a short yardage TD.
This is very, very inaccurate. In each game this year, Jones had one carry inside the 5 yard line, and each time he scored. As noted above, Jones has no deficiencies as a goal line back. Your proposed scenario is highly unlikely.
Priest is not a good argument. I want an example of a guy failing on two different teams, Priest is an example of a system back finding his system, after one stop. Besides that Priest ran for a 1000 at Bal, not exactly failing.
First of all, I don't think I can really fault Jones for anything that happened in Arizona. This, remember, was at the absolute apex of Arizona's vast mountain range of futility and incompetence. How many players have the Cardinals squandered or botched? It's not just that the Cardinals made horrible draft picks, it's that their organization sucked at running a football team. No one blamed Jake Plummer for having a fairly crappy career in Arizona, but everyone blames Jones when they wouldn't even give him much of a chance? This isn't like the Rivers situation where the guy ahead of him, Pittman, was just playing great and couldn't be benched. They mismanaged him.Secondly, Jones didn't fail in Tampa, at all. They didn't want to start him right away, and gave him a chance to learn the offense and blitz pickups. They eventually gave him the starting job and he finished off the season with several strong games and a 4ypc average. The Bucs wanted to keep him, but they had issues with the salary cap still from their SB season, and the Bears snatched him away as soon as FA opened.

So, really, all Jones did was "fail" in 3 years with a crappy franchise, and has done well since then. I don't see why it's a stretch that Arizona was simply a bad fit for him. I mean, Hearst is literally the last RB to have a good year in Arizona anyways.

Colin covered why he struggled at times last year, although he failed to mention the ineptitude and injuries along the OL. I watched every Bears game last year, and that was the worst OL play I've seen in my life. They're healthy this year, and brought in more talent to help out. I think they played poorly in Washington, but after the coaching staff focused on run blocking a lot the next week, they completely mauled the Lions. I still am somewhat nervous about them, but that is really my only concern about Jones. And despite that tough stretch of 8 games, he still averaged 4 ypc. Shouldn't that tell you something?

(note: not a Jones owner)

 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
Priest Holmes
 
For some reason, people view him as a bruising type back, but he's actually smaller than Thomas Jones in almost every way. Jones upper body is certainly much stronger, and the leg strength seems comparable.
This is comment is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. They're roughly the same weight, but have you taken a look at them lately, or ever? Benson gets his weight because he's actually thick, 50lbs. of TJ's weight comes from his huge arms. Having huge biceps doesn't exactly help you move the pile. In terms of actual bulk Benson is much bigger.Secondly, there's more to a between the tackles runner than pure size, mentality is a lot of it. TJ would rather bounce the ball outside, he doesn't put his head down and try to run people over, Cedric Benson looks for precisely that. Troy Hambrick is a good example here, a huge guy that is an awful between the tackles runner because he doesn't have the right mentality for it, Benson does.

And while the issue is at hand, TJ has most certainly failed at all his stops. He couldn't beat out the venerable Michael Pittman in Zona to keep him off the field. In Chi-town last year even when he came back from injury Atrain got lots of playing time.

Let's keep in mind that this guy, Thomas Jones has worse career numbers in nearly every major category than Michael Pittman in almost EXACTLY the same situations.

TJ played in zona, tampa, chicago, and Pittman in zona, tampa at similar times.

Career ypc: Both at 3.9. TDs: Pittman 24, TJ 22. Total yards since TJ came into the league in 2000: Pittman 6200, TJ 4100.

 
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For some reason, people view him as a bruising type back, but he's actually smaller than Thomas Jones in almost every way.  Jones upper body is certainly much stronger, and the leg strength seems comparable. 
This is comment is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. They're roughly the same weight, but have you taken a look at them lately, or ever? Benson gets his weight because he's actually thick, 50lbs. of TJ's weight comes from his huge arms. Having huge biceps doesn't exactly help you move the pile. In terms of actual bulk Benson is much bigger.Secondly, there's more to a between the tackles runner than pure size, mentality is a lot of it. TJ would rather bounce the ball outside, he doesn't put his head down and try to run people over, Cedric Benson looks for precisely that. Troy Hambrick is a good example here, a huge guy that is an awful between the tackles runner because he doesn't have the right mentality for it, Benson does.

And while the issue is at hand, TJ has most certainly failed at all his stops. He couldn't beat out the venerable Michael Pittman in Zona to keep him off the field. In Chi-town last year even when he came back from injury Atrain got lots of playing time.

Let's keep in mind that this guy, Thomas Jones has worse career numbers in nearly every major category than Michael Pittman in almost EXACTLY the same situations.

TJ played in zona, tampa, chicago, and Pittman in zona, tampa at similar times.

Career ypc: Both at 3.9. TDs: Pittman 24, TJ 22. Total yards since TJ came into the league in 2000: Pittman 6200, TJ 4100.
Thomas Jones' career numbers are skewed by his days in Arizona. He's been a vastly different RB since he took over in Tampa Bay. If people don't want to acknowledge that, oh well.He failed in Arizona, true. He certainly didn't fail in Tampa and hasn't failed in Chicago.

Anthony Thomas certainly didn't gets lots of playing time when Thomas Jones came back. Look at the numbers - he had 24 total carries from week 12 on, and 15 of them came in one game.

 
For some reason, people view him as a bruising type back, but he's actually smaller than Thomas Jones in almost every way.  Jones upper body is certainly much stronger, and the leg strength seems comparable. 
This is comment is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. They're roughly the same weight, but have you taken a look at them lately, or ever? Benson gets his weight because he's actually thick, 50lbs. of TJ's weight comes from his huge arms. Having huge biceps doesn't exactly help you move the pile. In terms of actual bulk Benson is much bigger.Secondly, there's more to a between the tackles runner than pure size, mentality is a lot of it. TJ would rather bounce the ball outside, he doesn't put his head down and try to run people over, Cedric Benson looks for precisely that. Troy Hambrick is a good example here, a huge guy that is an awful between the tackles runner because he doesn't have the right mentality for it, Benson does.

And while the issue is at hand, TJ has most certainly failed at all his stops. He couldn't beat out the venerable Michael Pittman in Zona to keep him off the field. In Chi-town last year even when he came back from injury Atrain got lots of playing time.

Let's keep in mind that this guy, Thomas Jones has worse career numbers in nearly every major category than Michael Pittman in almost EXACTLY the same situations.

TJ played in zona, tampa, chicago, and Pittman in zona, tampa at similar times.

Career ypc: Both at 3.9. TDs: Pittman 24, TJ 22. Total yards since TJ came into the league in 2000: Pittman 6200, TJ 4100.
What is wrong with the portion that you quoted? People do view Benson as a bruising back right? Benson is smaller than Jones in almost every way, this can't really be disputed. Neither of those sentences are wrong. I did imply, though, that he could be just as good as Thomas Jones is between the tackles, but I never implied or said he would be worse. I went on to say that he did poorly against highly ranked college teams, and wasn't able to bowl people over like he did against lesser teams with smaller defenders. I also suggested it would be difficult for him to pull this off in a league where most every defender he will face between the tackles is bigger than he is. He's going to need holes, just like Jones does. He's not going to be able to run to just run over 200lb LBs in the NFL, because there are no 200lb LBs.

And yes, I've seen them recently. I've watched every game Jones has started since 2003, half of Benson's games in 2004 with Texas, I live in Chicago and have watched every snap Benson has taken as a Bear, preseason and regular season. Yes, Jones' arms are large, but so is the rest of his upper body, and his legs are just as strong.

And I think you're wrong about Jones' mentality. I don't see how there's anything to suggest what he "would rather" do, as you say. Don't tell me he doesn't put his head down, either, that's garbage. Every RB in the NFL puts their head down. He's certainly run up the middle much more than to the outside as a Chicago Bear, and has averaged more than 4ypc doing so. What's the problem here?

And, as has already been pointed out, you're just 100% wrong about your bizzare notion that A-Train got more carries after Jones missed 2 games last year. Not even close, Jones never was even close to losing the job to Thomas, and Thomas barely saw the field when he came back. It's just pure fiction.

And, again, you're 100% wrong about him "failing at all stops." Why do you think he started the last 4 games of the season in Tampa, 2003? Why do you think Gruden went on record saying they wanted to keep Jones as the starter, but the Bears offered him more money than they could afford? Why has he averaged more than 4ypc since leaving Arizona? Does Pittman really have better numbers than Jones since Jones left Arizona? Has Jones fumbled as much as Pittman since then?

Answer those questions, then try to tell me he failed at all stops.

 
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Thomas Jones' career numbers are skewed by his days in Arizona.
What part of "in almost the same exact situations" do you not understand? Seriously man, we're talking about Michael Pittman here, who spent that same time period on that same Arizona team. In fact, Pittman spent an extra year in the Arizona wasteland that Jones did not, and he STILL has better career numbers.That's like me saying that Staley should start over FWP in Pittsburgh because FWP's numbers are only good because he was running in Pitt and Staley did well last year. Well Staley did well on the SAME team, just like saying in a comparison to Pittman that TJ's numbers were adversely affected because he was playing in Arizona is utterly useless, because the guy we're comparing him too was in the exact same spot.
 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
God, it's on the tip of my tongue. Who was that guy who the Rams got rid of? He wasn't even going to be in the league in 1996, that's how little faith they had in him. Now don't get me wrong, he had a good season for them, he just couldn't beat out anybody anymore. I think you might of heard of him. Buttis? Bottis? Anybody think of his name? It's something like that.

 
I read where an NFL GM said he was THE BEST goalline runner HE HAD EVER SCOUTED. That's just an example.
If you're remembering this right, that GM is ... uh, well, probably not very experienced. Benson was pretty good as a goal line back in college, but to say that about him is a bit of a stretch. I didn't even like him among the other 3 top RBs, largely because Benson usually had mediocre games against highly ranked teams in college. Not a good sign. His game in college was based on brute strength and running over people. I have a hard time seeing that translating well into a league where everyone is his size or bigger. It certainly hasn't worked so far.

For some reason, people view him as a bruising type back, but he's actually smaller than Thomas Jones in almost every way. Jones upper body is certainly much stronger, and the leg strength seems comparable. Either way, Jones was a very good short yardage and goal line back for the Bears last year. In fact, he led the league in TD% inside the 5 or 10 last year. How many people realize that?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&END QUOTES&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Well, an NFL GM, as we talked about earlier with Pat Kirwan, still knows a heckuva lot more about football than anyone here about football. Unless of course Bill Bellicheck, Bill Parcells, Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, and the likes enjoy this message board. (Hey Joe, not to say they wouldn't!)

This comment probably came from Pro Football Weekly's "Audibles" section where the guys there frequently talk to GM's, scouts, personnel guys, coaches and the like and are able to talk freely because anything they publish they do so under condition of not revealing their source in print. This is my absolute favorite thing to read in all of football. ALL you guys should check it out as the analysis is outstanding. I read this stuff and it makes THEEESMAN and Paully McGuire look infitessimally more like a bunch of annoying amateurs every time they open there mouth to say, "LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING". OK Joe and Paul, how bout you not and just shut your pieholes.

Remember, this comment is about goalline running specifically, not which RB you'd like to have on your team. I was just making a general comment on some of the skills Cedric has. To knock Cedric off his center of gravity is extremely difficult. I'm going to say it again. To knock Cedric off his center of gravity is extremely difficult. I'll say it over and over. This guy is so burlish he has an amazing balance.

Now I'm sure Cedric had some bad games against good defenses but that's because Texas had two amazing starting tailbacks in their backfield at all times. Benson is one, Vince Young is the other. Oh that's right, Young is the quarterback. And he's not a refined passer by any sense of the imagination. 8, 9 man fronts against Texas? Not surprising. Against great college teams with loads of future NFL talent an 8 or 9 man front WOULD be tough to run against.

What it comes down to is Benson makes a very, very nice option inside the 5 because he's hard to bring down. Now as far as Jones success last year inside the 5 he may have done very, very well. Let's talk about it. I'm not burying my head in the sand. But give some props to Benson at least on this point. If ANY GM said that he was the best goalline RB he had ever scouted that's a huge compliment and as a Shaun Alexander keeper owner for the last 5 years, I'll tell you a RB who knows how to get in the endzone when his team is down there is a huge asset.
 
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The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
God, it's on the tip of my tongue. Who was that guy who the Rams got rid of? He wasn't even going to be in the league in 1996, that's how little faith they had in him. Now don't get me wrong, he had a good season for them, he just couldn't beat out anybody anymore. I think you might of heard of him. Buttis? Bottis? Anybody think of his name? It's something like that.
You're kidding right? Jerome Bettis ran for 1500 yards and 7 TDs HIS ROOKIE YEAR for the Rams. In his 2 seasons with the Rams, he ran for over 1000 yards both times. In TJ's 5 years, he has run for 1000 yards well......never. In fact, he has only even broke 650 yards rushing once in his 5 years.Not even a comparison there...

 
Thomas Jones' career numbers are skewed by his days in Arizona.
What part of "in almost the same exact situations" do you not understand? Seriously man, we're talking about Michael Pittman here, who spent that same time period on that same Arizona team. In fact, Pittman spent an extra year in the Arizona wasteland that Jones did not, and he STILL has better career numbers.That's like me saying that Staley should start over FWP in Pittsburgh because FWP's numbers are only good because he was running in Pitt and Staley did well last year. Well Staley did well on the SAME team, just like saying in a comparison to Pittman that TJ's numbers were adversely affected because he was playing in Arizona is utterly useless, because the guy we're comparing him too was in the exact same spot.
No, what I'm saying is that Thomas Jones, by ALL accounts, is a vastly superior RB today than he was when he was in Arizona. I don't care it Pittman outperformed him years ago, because it has no relevance today to anyone paying attention.Maybe he's more focused. Maybe it was because the breathing problem he suffered from in Arizona is completely under control now. I don't care why.

Thomas Jones runs well between the tackles, has great speed, and explodes through the hole like a RB as talented as he is should. He's not a big bruising back, but he DOES run with power and excels in short yardage situations. People forget how highly he was drafted because of the talent he displayed in college.

Maybe Benson will become more involved this year, maybe not. But my opinion is that as long as the Bears are in contention and Thomas Jones is producing, Benson will not be a significant threat to Jones' playing time. He'll get some touches, maybe even a few more than a normal backup would, but given how much the Bears want to run the ball, there will be plenty of touches for Jones.

 
Fact is that TJ's numbers have gone up every year the last 4 years (Trend). He missed 1,000 yds by only 52 yds in only 14 games. Last year 1,375 total yds w/ 56 receptions (great for PPR Leagues, only behind DD & Westbrook, more than LT and Tiki). Rip em all you want, but he has looked good so far this year!!!

 
Fact is that TJ's numbers have gone up every year the last 4 years (Trend). He missed 1,000 yds by only 52 yds in only 14 games. Last year 1,375 total yds w/ 56 receptions (great for PPR Leagues, only behind DD & Westbrook, more than LT and Tiki). Rip em all you want, but he has looked good so far this year!!!
He's in his SIXTH year man, he's had his time to still be "improving" allllllll the way up to a 1000 yard rushing season, which in today's NFL is hardly an accomplishment in and of itself, yet it's still alluded the great Thomas Jones for 6 years.He's looking good so far this year? He had 1 good game against one of the lousiest teams in the NFL. In his other game he barely trudged out 2ypc on his way to a 31 yard day. He's off to a fair start, that's all.

Every year it's a new excuse for TJ. It will be something else this year when his FF hopes are imminently cracked again.

As for the statement above about "don't forget he was the 7th overall pick in the draft," believe me, no one has forgotten that, it's the only reason people are here pimping Thomas Jones every year. He's still living off of that high pick in FF. If he weren't a high draft pick coming into the NFL and he did what he's done so far for his career, he wouldn't be getting near the attention he does every year. Just ask Michael Pittman, who once again put up similar numbers in the same places (Zona AND Tampa), yet wasn't drafted highly in the NFL draft.

 
Oh yeah, he has improved every year for 6 years. 3 TD's in 2 Games, and he plays Detroit again... Glad I got him 7 rounds after Jamal Lewis.

 
Fact is that TJ's numbers have gone up every year the last 4 years (Trend).  He missed 1,000 yds by only 52 yds in only 14 games.  Last year 1,375 total yds w/ 56 receptions (great for PPR Leagues, only behind DD & Westbrook, more than LT and Tiki).  Rip em all you want, but he has looked good so far this year!!!
He's in his SIXTH year man, he's had his time to still be "improving" allllllll the way up to a 1000 yard rushing season, which in today's NFL is hardly an accomplishment in and of itself, yet it's still alluded the great Thomas Jones for 6 years.He's looking good so far this year? He had 1 good game against one of the lousiest teams in the NFL. In his other game he barely trudged out 2ypc on his way to a 31 yard day. He's off to a fair start, that's all.

Every year it's a new excuse for TJ. It will be something else this year when his FF hopes are imminently cracked again.

As for the statement above about "don't forget he was the 7th overall pick in the draft," believe me, no one has forgotten that, it's the only reason people are here pimping Thomas Jones every year. He's still living off of that high pick in FF. If he weren't a high draft pick coming into the NFL and he did what he's done so far for his career, he wouldn't be getting near the attention he does every year. Just ask Michael Pittman, who once again put up similar numbers in the same places (Zona AND Tampa), yet wasn't drafted highly in the NFL draft.
Couldn't respond to my last post huh? Gee, I wonder why?You act as if hes gotten 300 carries every year and just couldnt muster 1000 yards. Sorry, thats not the case. The fact that he managed to get within 50 yards in only 13 starts last year with the worst trio of QBs in the league, one of the worst OLs in the league, and the worst WRs in the league should be considered an impressive feat. Of course, your MO is to simply look at the year end totals, ignore ypc and everything else meaningful and make rash decisions.

Don't keep bringing up Pittman, because he did sort of lose his job to Thomas Jones in Tampa, as has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread. I don't know why you keep overlooking this. That's what got him the job in Chicago, not his high draft status.

And to say he "improved," doesn't mean he has sharpened his skills, or anything. That comment was in reference to his statistical output increasing every year. I think he finished developing in Tampa 2003, and has been about the same player since. If the Bears had even a sort of NFL quality, QB, OL, or WRs last year, I don't think you'd even be trying to argue about this. The QB, WR, and maybe the OL have all improved this year. Benson isn't getting in unless the Bears fall out of contention, which is going to be very late, if at all, given the state of the NFC North.

 
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IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW BIG THEY ARE, IT'S ABOUT HOW PHYSICAL THEY ARE, IT'S ABOUT THE

BLOW THEY DELIVER.
:unsure:
Hey man, just talking about players running a football. Nothing to see here. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along. :rolleyes: Does anyone agree Benson is a more physical runner than Jones? I hardly think that's a stretch as a statement.

 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
God, it's on the tip of my tongue. Who was that guy who the Rams got rid of? He wasn't even going to be in the league in 1996, that's how little faith they had in him. Now don't get me wrong, he had a good season for them, he just couldn't beat out anybody anymore. I think you might of heard of him. Buttis? Bottis? Anybody think of his name? It's something like that.
Bettis had significant success in Saint Louis, including a season where he was the #2 fantasy running back; his situation is not at all analagous to a guy who had never had a 1000-yard season, and has failed to beat out two backs who have never had 1000-yard seasons.
 
Couldn't respond to my last post huh? Gee, I wonder why?
Don't flatter yourself bud, I'm not going to bother responding to a post that didn't really say anything. I mean, you quoted me saying that Atrain still got some carries after TJ came back and somehow extrapolated that to me saying that Atrain got more carries than TJ.
Couldn't respond to my last post huh? Gee, I wonder why?
You act as if hes gotten 300 carries every year and just couldnt muster 1000 yards. Sorry, thats not the case. The fact that he managed to get within 50 yards in only 13 starts last year with the worst trio of QBs in the league, one of the worst OLs in the league, and the worst WRs in the league should be considered an impressive feat. Of course, your MO is to simply look at the year end totals, ignore ypc and everything else meaningful and make rash decisions.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's always a new excuse for Jones. He wasn't given the opportunity. He got hurt. He was in a bad situation. It's one of them every year, if not some combination of them. If it happens once, ok I'll buy it. Twice, ok I could see that happening. FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS he just got "screwed" by something totally out of his hands? I'm not buying it. Once you get to 5 years in a row, you've got to start thinking it's more the player than an excessively long record bad luck streak that's just going to disappear this year. And since when is 950 yards in 13 games so great? Atrain went for nearly 300 yards and a pair of TDs in the 3 games he started in the same "horrible situation". And what's with all the ripping on Chicago's O-line last year? They had bigtime QB issues, but their O-line has actually been fairly solid.
Don't keep bringing up Pittman, because he did sort of lose his job to Thomas Jones in Tampa, as has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread. I don't know why you keep overlooking this. That's what got him the job in Chicago, not his high draft status.
Why can't we bring up Pittman? He's a perfect example of a guy who is generally looked at as not being very good, yet has put up nearly identical numbers to TJ in the same situations. Ok, so maybe as you said he did "sort of" lose his job to TJ in Tampa after 13 games, well it's about damn time, it only took TJ 4 years to get past the great Pittman. If this was Curtis Martin we're talking about here ok, but how can this guy be so great if his career is constantly being halted by a bad RB that he just can't seem to shake, and whom he puts up nearly identical numbers to in the same situations?Every year for 5 years people have jumped on the TJ bandwagon thinking this would finally be the year where none of the excuses come back up and TJ actually makes for a reliable fantasy RB. 5 years. Now, in the 6th year, he's coming in in perhaps the worst situation he's come into yet (instead of battling the mediocre Michael Pittman, he's now looked at as a placeholder for a highly touted top draft pick that was taken specifically to be the workhorse back in this new offense), yet once again "this is going to be the year".And after Benson eventually takes over this year, the "he didn't have a fair chance" excuse will come back into action and we'll go through this all over again in year 7 for TJ wherever he ends up.Anyway, I think I'm done here. I've been through this arguement 6 times now, and I'm sure I'll be due for time #7 when this all crops back up again next year. I may as well mention on my way out that I own TJ in a money redraft league, so there's not hidden agenda here, just the way I really feel about the guy. Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree here, since I own him, I'll wish you luck on being right, but I certainly am not counting on anything out of him and will deal him for the first good offer that comes my way.
 
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Continue with your pissing contest if you want. The real fact is that the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Arizona, Tampa Bay, even last year doesn't mean squat in 2005. So far this season, Thomas Jones has stepped it up a notch. He knows his days are numbered and he's putting on a display. If you're a TJ owner, you have to be happy because this is the best case scenario. The better he plays, the longer he will see the field in 2005 and maybe he'll be able to start for another team in the future. What's the point in arguing about TJ's past? His situation and his stats right now are better than anyone could of guessed since the draft selection of Cedric Benson.

 
The NFL is littered with players who were underperformed in their original locations and then went on to be good or even great players for other teams.

Colin
Could you provide some examples of RBs who failed to beat out competition of the likes of Marcel Shipp and Michael Pittman who went on to be good players elsewhere?
God, it's on the tip of my tongue. Who was that guy who the Rams got rid of? He wasn't even going to be in the league in 1996, that's how little faith they had in him. Now don't get me wrong, he had a good season for them, he just couldn't beat out anybody anymore. I think you might of heard of him. Buttis? Bottis? Anybody think of his name? It's something like that.
Bettis had significant success in Saint Louis, including a season where he was the #2 fantasy running back; his situation is not at all analagous to a guy who had never had a 1000-yard season, and has failed to beat out two backs who have never had 1000-yard seasons.
I thought I was answering that other question. You know, the unable to keep a virtual nobody on the bench and able to produce elsewhere question. I guess I can answer whatever you'd like, though. You choose.
 
Don't flatter yourself bud, I'm not going to bother responding to a post that didn't really say anything. I mean, you quoted me saying that Atrain still got some carries after TJ came back and somehow extrapolated that to me saying that Atrain got more carries than TJ.
No, I didn't. Here, I'll put them both right next to each other.YOU: "In Chi-town last year even when he came back from injury Atrain got lots of playing time. "

ME: "And, as has already been pointed out, you're just 100% wrong about your bizzare notion that A-Train got more carries after Jones missed 2 games last year. Not even close, Jones never was even close to losing the job to Thomas, and Thomas barely saw the field when he came back. It's just pure fiction."

You say he got "lots of playing time" after Jones was injured. I said he did not get any more carries after the injury, that he was never in danger of losing his job, and that A-Train barely saw the field. There was zero extrapolation there.

24 carries over 4 games, with most of them coming late during their big win over Minnesota. Not "lots of carries," at all. It was clearly wrong, and I pointed it out. Somehow this eluded you.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's always a new excuse for Jones. He wasn't given the opportunity. He got hurt. He was in a bad situation. It's one of them every year, if not some combination of them. If it happens once, ok I'll buy it. Twice, ok I could see that happening. FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS he just got "screwed" by something totally out of his hands? I'm not buying it. Once you get to 5 years in a row, you've got to start thinking it's more the player than an excessively long record bad luck streak that's just going to disappear this year. And since when is 950 yards in 13 games so great? Atrain went for nearly 300 yards and a pair of TDs in the 3 games he started in the same "horrible situation". And what's with all the ripping on Chicago's O-line last year? They had bigtime QB issues, but their O-line has actually been fairly solid.
950 in 13 games isn't that amazing under normal circumstances, but he averaged 4 ypc during that stretch, which should tell you that he didn't get that many carries. That's actually another thing that sucked about last year's Bears, OC Terry Shea. He was horrible, he didn't know how to call a game, and he tried to make the players fit his scheme rather than scheme for the players he had. This is why he immediately lost his job at the end of the season. Jones was under 20 carries for most games last season, it was ridiculous. And then of course, you factor in the COMPLETE lack of a passing game for almost the entire season, the fact that the OL sucked, and the fact that the defenses absolutely knew that Thomas Jones was the only player who could hurt them, and you should probably be wondering how he managed 950/9 like he did. If he was half as bad as you think he was, he probably couldn't have cracked 700/5. The entire Bears offense was a complete disaster in 2004, and few RBs in the league could have cracked 1000 in 13 there as TJ almost did.

And now you're talking about A-Train and the OL being good? At this point, it's clear to any Bears homer that you did not watch these games. A-Train almost got 300 yards in 3 games, you're right. Against who? Three of the weakest run D teams (and just bad teams overall) in their schedule, SF, Tennesse, and the Giants. And, what's worse is that he averaged 3.4ypc to slowly accumulate those 280ish yards. Yes, it took him 82 carries to get those yards in 3 games. You're trying to use that to discredit Jones? A-Train did worse against the weakest competition the Bears saw that year.

And the OL? Good god, you can't really be arguing this one, can you? The Bears OL last year was easily one of the bottom 5 in the league, whether you count their frequent injuries or not. At least 2 of them ended the season on the IR, and many of them suffered various nagging injuries that kept them out of games throughout the season. Their LT had 2 career starts before the season, and was a completel turnstile failure. Aside from that, they just plain sucked at blocking, were not able to get any sort of chemistry going, and they gave up the most sacks in franchise history. I'm sorry, but again, you're wrong here.

Why can't we bring up Pittman? He's a perfect example of a guy who is generally looked at as not being very good, yet has put up nearly identical numbers to TJ in the same situations. Ok, so maybe as you said he did "sort of" lose his job to TJ in Tampa after 13 games, well it's about damn time, it only took TJ 4 years to get past the great Pittman. If this was Curtis Martin we're talking about here ok, but how can this guy be so great if his career is constantly being halted by a bad RB that he just can't seem to shake, and whom he puts up nearly identical numbers to in the same situations?
First, when I said "sort of," I was being facetious. Pittman lost the job to Jones, no doubt about it. This was 2 years ago in Tampa, not 3 or 4 years ago with the horrific Cardinals of the late 90s early 00s. Which should hold more water with you, as a fantasy owner? His career was never halted by Pittman, he just split carries with him for a time in Arizona until he was ready to take over, then he had some injury issues. He joined Tampa as a low risk/high reward type guy, and they brought him along slowly, and he eventually took Pittman's job. It's not like he ever had a starting job and lost it to Pittman. Instead, he lost out due to an injury, and later took the job in tampa from Pittman. Where's the beef here?
Every year for 5 years people have jumped on the TJ bandwagon thinking this would finally be the year where none of the excuses come back up and TJ actually makes for a reliable fantasy RB. 5 years. Now, in the 6th year, he's coming in in perhaps the worst situation he's come into yet (instead of battling the mediocre Michael Pittman, he's now looked at as a placeholder for a highly touted top draft pick that was taken specifically to be the workhorse back in this new offense), yet once again "this is going to be the year".

And after Benson eventually takes over this year, the "he didn't have a fair chance" excuse will come back into action and we'll go through this all over again in year 7 for TJ wherever he ends up.

Anyway, I think I'm done here. I've been through this arguement 6 times now, and I'm sure I'll be due for time #7 when this all crops back up again next year. I may as well mention on my way out that I own TJ in a money redraft league, so there's not hidden agenda here, just the way I really feel about the guy. Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree here, since I own him, I'll wish you luck on being right, but I certainly am not counting on anything out of him and will deal him for the first good offer that comes my way.
I'm not saying "this is going to be the year," guaranteeing 1500/10 or something. It's obvious that the Bears want Benson to take over at some point, but it's also obvious that they aren't going to bench Jones for no reason. If they stay in the playoff hunt and Jones continues to perform well, he'll keep getting the ball, and could have great value (vs his ADP) in fantasy leagues as an occasional strong start. That was the point here. I personally think that he's been clearly a good RB since 2004, and that he could be a solid real world and fantasy back in a non-######ed situation. Honestly, I think it would have been best for him to stay in Tampa, but the Bears offered him more money. He would have started for the Bucs last season, and would have kept the Bucs off from drafting a RB in 2005. It was a much better situation than the Bears in 04, that's for sure.

As for Benson, I thought it was horrible that the Bears drafted a RB in the first place, especially that it was Benson. They could have easily had Mike Williams (a WR that they actually need), or Rolle, Pac-man, or, hell, if it HAD to be a RB, Cadillac Williams. Benson made little sense outside of the fact that Ron Turner had a complete hard-on for a "bruising" RB that he felt fit his system better than Jones. Much like Anthony Thomas before him, Jones is being replaced based on the offensive system, not his performance.

I've seen nothing to suggest that Benson is actually a better fit as yet, and the other issues I brought up about him in college are a major concern. And, hell, even the off-the-field and attitude issues were a major turn off. It just didn't make much sense. Most Bears fans I know pretty much felt the same way, or are the blind-optimism homer types who swore Chad Hutchinson was the answer after last year's game against Minnesota.

But hey, it doesn't look like you're going to really respond to these corrections, so I guess I can just say GL and I hope Jones gets you something good in a trade.

 
Every year for 5 years people have jumped on the TJ bandwagon thinking this would finally be the year where none of the excuses come back up and TJ actually makes for a reliable fantasy RB.  5 years.  Now, in the 6th year, he's coming in in perhaps the worst situation he's come into yet (instead of battling the mediocre Michael Pittman, he's now looked at as a placeholder for a highly touted top draft pick that was taken specifically to be the workhorse back in this new offense), yet once again "this is going to be the year".

And after Benson eventually takes over this year, the "he didn't have a fair chance" excuse will come back into action and we'll go through this all over again in year 7 for TJ wherever he ends up.

Anyway, I think I'm done here.  I've been through this arguement 6 times now, and I'm sure I'll be due for time #7 when this all crops back up again next year.  I may as well mention on my way out that I own TJ in a money redraft league, so there's not hidden agenda here, just the way I really feel about the guy.  Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree here, since I own him, I'll wish you luck on being right, but I certainly am not counting on anything out of him and will deal him for the first good offer that comes my way.
2 years ago, I picked up TJ late in the season and he won some games for me. I kept him for cheap last year, allowing me to go with a stud QB draft (start 2 QB's), riding Manning, Culpepper, and TJ to a dominating championship. This year, I got him very cheap as my RB4 (start 3 RB's), cheaper than 36 other RB's. Since I picked up TJ late 2 years ago, I have lost 1 game in that league and haven't lost in almost a year. If that doesn't show he's helped me fantasy-wise, I don't know what will. You have to look at the whole picture of the team and what getting TJ so cheap allows you to do with the rest of your team.

So far, this is 3 years in a row that TJ is helping my fantasy team as a reliable fantasy RB, especially considering the cost. Each year, doubters keep bringing up Arizona and Pittman 5 years ago. I've been through this argument 3 years now, and I'm sure I'll be due for time #4 when TJ does well again next year when I keep him for cheap again.

 
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isn't FBGs all about "value" picks?if you drafted TJ, you got him after round 6 or 7. while Benson owners probably reached for him in ronud 3 or 4. right now TJ owners are enjoying what they're getting from a guy who was drafted as a backup... while Benson owners are crying in their beer at a wasted pick.sure, things might change.. but.. they are looking pretty good right now.

 
Another solid game out of TJ, amazing with his QB throwing for 86 and 5 pics. Why hasn't Cedric gotten a carry yet? Hurt? No need? Anyways, I'll take a sure to be top 5 scorer thus far in the late round like I did in EVERY league.

 

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