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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (3 Viewers)

Serious question.Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
Tebow is not a top 20 guy? :confused:
I think he is, but it's tough to rank a lot of QBs. Plus we've seen guys look really good early and not amount to much which I why I don't want to say he's a sure thing long-term starter if he stays healthy.Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Peyton, Schaub, Eli, Roethlisberger are all better imo no real argument to be made.Cutler, Ryan, Fitzpatrick, Romo, Stafford, Cam, Rivers, Palmer all have good arguments.That's already 15 that at least have reasonable arguments to be made.Tebow is likely starting in the pro-bowl this year consdering Brady and Ben will fake injuries if they aren't in the superbowl. And I think he'll deserve the pro-bowl nod.
 
Serious question.Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
Tebow is not a top 20 guy? :confused:
There's really only 10/12 guys in the NFL that are top-20 caliber right now.
 
This is getting worse than the Lebron talk last year :wall:

But back to fantasy.. He's a Stud vs NE and BUF, who are you guys benching for him? I'm debating benching Romo(leaning towards romo) or Newton vs hou

 
Serious question.Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
Tebow is not a top 20 guy? :confused:
There's really only 10/12 guys in the NFL that are top-20 caliber right now.
:goodposting: He just wins.
 
'Dizzy said:
'Lavachebeadsman said:
FavreCo...if Tebow wins a playoff game, or god forbid, even 2, how do you react?
The odds are better to see Tebow walking around in a Slayer T-shirt.Bronco's defense is good, but they're not THAT good (yet).
This is the NFL and they'll be at home. There is a solid chance they win a playoff game.
 
'Ghost Rider said:
Sadly there will be a day when tebow is no longer out there starting (and starring) for an NFL team for the enjoyment of NFL fans everywhere. I recommend that everyone watch the weekly train wreck while it is still playing. He needs to come up big soon if he wants to take this circus on the road. Maybe he can pull a miracle against KC in 2 weeks. Other than that pipedream, his ### is going to be shredded.
How has that worked out thus far?
If he can hold on a little longer, he will go up against my SD and NYJ defenses. I'm rooting for the guy. :thumbup: Then we will plant him in the ground like DET did this past week.
How did that work out? Shall I keep bumping your inane posts, or are you ready to concede, rather than just changing your position every week?
:goodposting: But this time is serious. As Moleculo pointed out, the mere fact that FavreCo thinks this "sig bet" idea is even remotely fair (i.e. that Brady and Tebow are even close enough for anyone to consider it) speaks volumes about what Tebow has accomplished and what FavreCo thinks of him now.

FavreCo reminds me of my Grandma always predicting that "this year" was going to be her last Christmas. At 92, she was finally right - after predicting it for over 20 years.

 
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If the Tebow throws a TD pass to Decker against New England I will get off his back. If he doesn't I will dog him till his grave. C'mon Tebow I've got to win.....make me a disciple.

 
'FavreCo said:
'killrobotkill said:
'FavreCo said:
'Crusaderfan said:
'FavreCo said:
'themeanmachine said:
Ditka exploding at Hoge just now was classic. On another note, was Hoge dropped on his head as a baby? Or is his toupee tainting his brain? As a fellow bald man I find his rug offensive.
Hoge is a dope. Seeing Ditka take him to school was awesome. And Hoge just say there like some cocky kid who thinks he knows everything, but really doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. It was quite amusing. At some point, you have to suck it up and give some credit - even Cris Carter has budged a little and given Tebow some credit - but Hoge is too full of himself to ever admit that he could be wrong.
Someone posted on YouTube that Hoge did a 180 on Mike & Mike this morning and is now saying he's a Tebow believer. :lmao: Anyone here heard that?
Yep, now Hoge says he was wrong about Tebow
:lmao: What a wuss. Couldn't hold out.
Maybe he finally got tired of looking foolish?? :shrug:
:lmao: I'm taking sig bets this week. I get New England for anyone manly enough to take the bet. 1st real team they have faced since the Detroit beatdown. The Tebow even gets to play the 31st ranked pass D.
What the hell, I'll bite. PM me with the terms.
Have you been all over my ####? I'll take any bettors but it won't be as fun. You got aliases that are older that 2009?. I don't need the PM function. I'll lay it right out here for all to see. It's a one time bet for The Tebows at home straight up vs the Pats. Basically winner get 1 year in the other guys sig with whatever degrading thing he can come up with that fits the board terms. Failure to comply results in permanent banishment by the mods. Look at it this way tebowners, you can get rid of FavreCo for life if I fail to comply. That shoudl be worth the bet right there.
You got it. I don't need no stinkin' 7-point line. It'll make winning that much sweeter.If anyone's got good sig suggestions, send them my way, but I should be able to pick out a good one on my own. I've only been here since '09, but I've already read more than enough FavreCo.

 
'ivnabru said:
Serious question.Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
I'd take Tebow right now, as a NFL (not necessarily fantasy) QB, over the following current starters, based on pure skill set:OrlovskyGabbertGrossmanJacksonHanieMcCoyKolb (or Skelton)PalkoOf players not playing right now, I'd take the following over Tebow:CutlerOrtonLuckSo I'd probably rank the current Tebow in the 25-30 range of NFL quarterbacks, from a pure skill perspective. But I think his upside in the coming years is way higher than a lot of people ahead of him on the list.
 
'Topes said:
'Sarnoff said:
'jon_mx said:
'ivnabru said:
Serious question.Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
Tebow is not a top 20 guy? :confused:
There's really only 10/12 guys in the NFL that are top-20 caliber right now.
:goodposting: He just wins.
:goodposting:
 
'Ghost Rider said:
Sadly there will be a day when tebow is no longer out there starting (and starring) for an NFL team for the enjoyment of NFL fans everywhere. I recommend that everyone watch the weekly train wreck while it is still playing. He needs to come up big soon if he wants to take this circus on the road. Maybe he can pull a miracle against KC in 2 weeks. Other than that pipedream, his ### is going to be shredded.
How has that worked out thus far?
If he can hold on a little longer, he will go up against my SD and NYJ defenses. I'm rooting for the guy. :thumbup: Then we will plant him in the ground like DET did this past week.
How did that work out? Shall I keep bumping your inane posts, or are you ready to concede, rather than just changing your position every week?
He sucked for 3 Q's against both. All yuo are doing is looking at the end reult. Sure it was a win but he sucked. These things take time. See D. garrabage, V. Young and D Carr.
 
'FavreCo said:
'killrobotkill said:
'FavreCo said:
'Crusaderfan said:
'FavreCo said:
'themeanmachine said:
Ditka exploding at Hoge just now was classic. On another note, was Hoge dropped on his head as a baby? Or is his toupee tainting his brain? As a fellow bald man I find his rug offensive.
Hoge is a dope. Seeing Ditka take him to school was awesome. And Hoge just say there like some cocky kid who thinks he knows everything, but really doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. It was quite amusing. At some point, you have to suck it up and give some credit - even Cris Carter has budged a little and given Tebow some credit - but Hoge is too full of himself to ever admit that he could be wrong.
Someone posted on YouTube that Hoge did a 180 on Mike & Mike this morning and is now saying he's a Tebow believer. :lmao: Anyone here heard that?
Yep, now Hoge says he was wrong about Tebow
:lmao: What a wuss. Couldn't hold out.
Maybe he finally got tired of looking foolish?? :shrug:
:lmao: I'm taking sig bets this week. I get New England for anyone manly enough to take the bet. 1st real team they have faced since the Detroit beatdown. The Tebow even gets to play the 31st ranked pass D.
What the hell, I'll bite. PM me with the terms.
Have you been all over my ####? I'll take any bettors but it won't be as fun. You got aliases that are older that 2009?. I don't need the PM function. I'll lay it right out here for all to see. It's a one time bet for The Tebows at home straight up vs the Pats. Basically winner get 1 year in the other guys sig with whatever degrading thing he can come up with that fits the board terms. Failure to comply results in permanent banishment by the mods. Look at it this way tebowners, you can get rid of FavreCo for life if I fail to comply. That shoudl be worth the bet right there.
You got it. I don't need no stinkin' 7-point line. It'll make winning that much sweeter.If anyone's got good sig suggestions, send them my way, but I should be able to pick out a good one on my own. I've only been here since '09, but I've already read more than enough FavreCo.
You got it. FavreCo's NE Patriots vs killrobotkill's Denver Tebows. sig bet.
 
'moleculo said:
Farveco: consider the absurdity of this: at this point last year, McDaniels was fired on the heels of a 3-11 record. Denver was well on their way to the #2 overall pick in the draft. Just 2 months ago, The Broncos were 1-4 and thinking about Andrew Luck or RGIII. All the world was telling us that Tebow was never going to be a legitimate NFL QB.Fast forward to today, and you are trying to get people to bet you straight up on the Broncos beating AFC favorites New England Patriots, led by captain cool Tom Brady. The mere idea that you think these guys are close enough to being equivalent to not warrant a point spread speaks volumes.I will not be taking any bet; I think NE will win this game. However, I also thought that Mia would win, along with NYJ, SD, oak, and Chi, so I guess that shows what I know.
Consider this: How long do you think this little run of 4th Q luck is going to continue. Some really bad teams have been beaten by the Broncos, only in the 4th Q. All you guys see is a W and don't analyze the play of The Tebow. It was the same for Carr, Garrabage and Young. Carr was everyone elses fault, the other 2 won games once....well the defense did. The Broncos have faced one powerful offense and got destroyed. The only hope for The Tebowners is that somehow he miraculously learns how to play NFL QB before the toughter schedule of 2012.There isn't a single tebowner on this board that can legitimately explain whty he totally sucks for 3 quarters week in and week out.
 
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'Ghost Rider said:
Sadly there will be a day when tebow is no longer out there starting (and starring) for an NFL team for the enjoyment of NFL fans everywhere. I recommend that everyone watch the weekly train wreck while it is still playing. He needs to come up big soon if he wants to take this circus on the road. Maybe he can pull a miracle against KC in 2 weeks. Other than that pipedream, his ### is going to be shredded.
How has that worked out thus far?
If he can hold on a little longer, he will go up against my SD and NYJ defenses. I'm rooting for the guy. :thumbup: Then we will plant him in the ground like DET did this past week.
How did that work out? Shall I keep bumping your inane posts, or are you ready to concede, rather than just changing your position every week?
He sucked for 3 Q's against both. All yuo are doing is looking at the end reult. Sure it was a win but he sucked. These things take time. See D. garrabage, V. Young and D Carr.
But you said his ### was gonna get shredded and that the Jets and Chargers were gonna plant him in the ground. And that didn't happen. You were wrong, and now are trying to cop out behind the "These things take time" line, while also using a ridiculous example like David Carr, whose 23-56 record as a starter is in stark contrast to Tebow's 8-3 record as a starter. Not that wins and losses are all on the QB - they never are - but if you are gonna use an absurd example like Carr, expect to be called out on it.
 
'Topes said:
'Sarnoff said:
'jon_mx said:
'ivnabru said:
Serious question.

Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
Tebow is not a top 20 guy? :confused:
There's really only 10/12 guys in the NFL that are top-20 caliber right now.
:goodposting: He just wins.
Skip Bayless agrees.
 
But you said his ### was gonna get shredded and that the Jets and Chargers were gonna plant him in the ground. And that didn't happen. You were wrong, and now are trying to cop out behind the "These things take time" line, while also using a ridiculous example like David Carr, whose 23-56 record as a starter is in stark contrast to Tebow's 8-3 record as a starter. Not that wins and losses are all on the QB - they never are - but if you are gonna use an absurd example like Carr, expect to be called out on it.
They are my 2 fantasy D's. I wastrying to pump them up. :football: Anyway, both teams ####ed up and lost. Defensive brainfart and a missed GW FG. How am I copping out behind 'these things take time'? Because I am not jumping on this freakshow bandwagon of 4th Q lucky wins. Becasue I have time on my side and you don't? Anyone with 1 working braincell knows last week was pure luck. I analyze the whole product, 4 Q's, not a bucnh of 4th Q lucky winsover 1/2 season. If I did, I would look like the Josh Freeman hypers. Look at that guy now.

I told people from the get go that those 3 QB sucked balls and had to hear the BS until I finally proved that I right. Where are those 3? Backups at best and when they actually get in teh games they suck.

 
Just want to throw this in.

Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?

Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?

The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.

 
'proninja said:
Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Because people aren't looking for actual facts. They're looking for information that supports the opinion they've already formed.
i am looking for secret codes in his stats because i am now convinced that he is trying to send us a message like if he has threw 25 times for 8 yards it could be a BIble verse refernece about the end of times and if we all listen close enough to teboww's stats we might avoid the 2012 endo fo times actually just kidding i agree with you everyone is trying to find something to say when really all anyone should say is that he is doing good and his team is winning and trying very hard since he took over and maybe thats because of him and maybe is stats will never loook good but they are winning and that is the one stat that counts brohans so take that to the bank
 
'Topes said:
'Sarnoff said:
'jon_mx said:
'ivnabru said:
Serious question.

Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
Tebow is not a top 20 guy? :confused:
There's really only 10/12 guys in the NFL that are top-20 caliber right now.
:goodposting: He just wins.
Skip Bayless agrees.
I thought Bayless and Cris Carter were going to drop gloves on First Take. If charities auctioned off the opportunity to punch Carter in the face, we'd be able to end world hunger and cure cancer and AIDS.
 
But you said his ### was gonna get shredded and that the Jets and Chargers were gonna plant him in the ground. And that didn't happen. You were wrong, and now are trying to cop out behind the "These things take time" line, while also using a ridiculous example like David Carr, whose 23-56 record as a starter is in stark contrast to Tebow's 8-3 record as a starter. Not that wins and losses are all on the QB - they never are - but if you are gonna use an absurd example like Carr, expect to be called out on it.
They are my 2 fantasy D's. I wastrying to pump them up. :football: Anyway, both teams ####ed up and lost. Defensive brainfart and a missed GW FG. How am I copping out behind 'these things take time'? Because I am not jumping on this freakshow bandwagon of 4th Q lucky wins. Becasue I have time on my side and you don't? Anyone with 1 working braincell knows last week was pure luck. I analyze the whole product, 4 Q's, not a bucnh of 4th Q lucky winsover 1/2 season. If I did, I would look like the Josh Freeman hypers. Look at that guy now.

I told people from the get go that those 3 QB sucked balls and had to hear the BS until I finally proved that I right. Where are those 3? Backups at best and when they actually get in teh games they suck.
:toilet:

 
Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Are you kidding? Brutal. The Dolphins had the game won and went prevent. The Jets had the game won and went prevent. The Bears had the game won and went prevent. Now I'm going to address your post. Are you telling us that the Broncos wore down the Bears with a bunch of 3 and outs? Sorry but I gotta :lmao: A total of 7 - 3 & outs before the 4th Q. :lmao: A total of a little over 100 yards in the 1st 3 Q's, with about 1/2 of it in one drive, somehow wore the Bears down. Comical. These guys need some endurance training.Apparently the Jets were gassed after allowing 57 yards rushing and 65 yards passing thru 3 Q's. Wimps.Now, for more entertainment check these thread. They are full of fantasy too. Especially the 1st one. Post #2 is a gem ( I mean the guy just wins) as is post #7 (how'd that work out for ya)? Not too good. Case now closed.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507830http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=372902
 
Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Are you kidding? Brutal. The Dolphins had the game won and went prevent. The Jets had the game won and went prevent. The Bears had the game won and went prevent. Now I'm going to address your post. Are you telling us that the Broncos wore down the Bears with a bunch of 3 and outs? Sorry but I gotta :lmao: A total of 7 - 3 & outs before the 4th Q. :lmao: A total of a little over 100 yards in the 1st 3 Q's, with about 1/2 of it in one drive, somehow wore the Bears down. Comical. These guys need some endurance training.Apparently the Jets were gassed after allowing 57 yards rushing and 65 yards passing thru 3 Q's. Wimps.Now, for more entertainment check these thread. They are full of fantasy too. Especially the 1st one. Post #2 is a gem ( I mean the guy just wins) as is post #7 (how'd that work out for ya)? Not too good. Case now closed.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507830http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=372902
Good points. I'd bet on Tebow to keep on improving and avoid the off the field issues like VY. Most of his issues seem correctable. Do you think he has no potential at all to be a adequate passer in 2 years?
 
Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Are you kidding? Brutal. The Dolphins had the game won and went prevent. The Jets had the game won and went prevent. The Bears had the game won and went prevent. Now I'm going to address your post. Are you telling us that the Broncos wore down the Bears with a bunch of 3 and outs? Sorry but I gotta :lmao: A total of 7 - 3 & outs before the 4th Q. :lmao: A total of a little over 100 yards in the 1st 3 Q's, with about 1/2 of it in one drive, somehow wore the Bears down. Comical. These guys need some endurance training.Apparently the Jets were gassed after allowing 57 yards rushing and 65 yards passing thru 3 Q's. Wimps.Now, for more entertainment check these thread. They are full of fantasy too. Especially the 1st one. Post #2 is a gem ( I mean the guy just wins) as is post #7 (how'd that work out for ya)? Not too good. Case now closed.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507830http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=372902
Good points. I'd bet on Tebow to keep on improving and avoid the off the field issues like VY. Most of his issues seem correctable. Do you think he has no potential at all to be a adequate passer in 2 years?
When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.I'll say this. He has a better chance of succeeding that Carr, Young or Garrabage but I am far from convinced. This place is notorious for jumping on a band wagon and riding it into a wall as the above threads show. The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.
 
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There isn't a single tebowner on this board that can legitimately explain whty he totally sucks for 3 quarters week in and week out.
Because, like all QBs with 11 career starts he is inconsistent. But he hasn't totally sucked for 3 quarters. Your arguments might carry more weight if you didn't so obviously dislike the guy. Your language in referring to him is beyond critical and simply insulting.He has a QB rating of 83.9, good for 14th in the NFL. He has five games with over a 91 and three sub 69. He is a better passer than you give him credit for (although not so good as some think either). There is no doubt that he is exceptional in the 4th quarter (113.6) but don't you want that from your QB? Someone who is nails during crunch time? He isn't killing his team in the first three quarters and he improves as the game goes along. You talk about that as if it were a bad thing. Either way you come off as someone with an axe to grind and not someone who is interested in talking about football.
 
Just want to throw this in.

Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?

Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?

The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Are you kidding? Brutal. The Dolphins had the game won and went prevent. The Jets had the game won and went prevent. The Bears had the game won and went prevent. Now I'm going to address your post. Are you telling us that the Broncos wore down the Bears with a bunch of 3 and outs? Sorry but I gotta :lmao: A total of 7 - 3 & outs before the 4th Q. :lmao: A total of a little over 100 yards in the 1st 3 Q's, with about 1/2 of it in one drive, somehow wore the Bears down. Comical. These guys need some endurance training.

Apparently the Jets were gassed after allowing 57 yards rushing and 65 yards passing thru 3 Q's. Wimps.

Now, for more entertainment check these thread. They are full of fantasy too. Especially the 1st one. Post #2 is a gem ( I mean the guy just wins) as is post #7 (how'd that work out for ya)? Not too good. Case now closed.

http://forums.footba...howtopic=507830

http://forums.footba...howtopic=372902
Lots of teams use the prevent in the fourth quarter to protect leads and lots of QBs fail to exploit those opportunities. You put all the praise on the opponent and all the critical response on Tebow. Did you ever consider that the truth likely lies somewhere between.
 
So I just checked the Broncos (who someone compared to the 2000 Ravens yesterday). They have allowed 20.25 points/game in Tebow's 8 starts. That would rank them the 8th best Defense by points allowed per game in the AFC. Interesting. That's against (as we've heard) lots of bad teams with bad offenses.

 
'ivnabru said:
Serious question.Do most of the people watching think Tebow is a legitmate NFL QB now? Not that he's a top 20 guy, just good enough to be a starter (top 32 guy in the NFL) or if not at least good enough to be in the league (top 64 or 96 QB). The argument when he was playing Miami/Detroit was that at best he'd be a fullback after he stunk it up this season. Just curious. I think especially after the improvements I've seen he's good enough to be a QB in this league. Still not sure he'll be a starter in 2-3 years but I think absent injury he'll be QB on a roster 5 years from now.
I'd take Tebow right now, as a NFL (not necessarily fantasy) QB, over the following current starters, based on pure skill set:OrlovskyGabbertGrossmanJacksonHanieMcCoyKolb (or Skelton)PalkoOf players not playing right now, I'd take the following over Tebow:CutlerOrtonLuckSo I'd probably rank the current Tebow in the 25-30 range of NFL quarterbacks, from a pure skill perspective. But I think his upside in the coming years is way higher than a lot of people ahead of him on the list.
Here's the interesting thing 6 weeks ago the word from most people was that Tebow shouldn't be an NFL QB at best he'll be a FB in a year or two. Now I'd say even FarveCo will admit that he's a top 64 guy and should be on someones roster.
 
There isn't a single tebowner on this board that can legitimately explain whty he totally sucks for 3 quarters week in and week out.
Your premise is wrong - it's that easy. Are you actually watching the games or just assuming every incomplete pass was terribly thrown?I've stated it before and I'll say it again: The offense is new for the whole team EXCEPT Tebow and it's going to take a while (couple of years) before it can click on all cylinders. The quality and execution of the WRs and TEs needs to get better. The play calling needs to get better. And Tebow is still adjusting to the flow of the pro game.Just as you think that all defenses will "catch up" to this offense doesn't mean that the Bronco offense can't get better. Anybody who's seen Tebow run the offense with quality WRs like Louis Murphy, David Nelson, Riley Cooper and Percy Harvin, with TEs like Aaron Hernandez, and with coaches like Urban Meyer calling the plays, knows what it looks like when it's clicking.Let the Broncos get a #1 replacement for Brandon Lloyd and at least 1 decent TE, let the first string RB (Moreno) or his replacement get better, and let the offensive line get accustomed to the scheme, and THEN make a judgement a couple of years down the line.Lastly, for anyone on this board to sit here and trash the collective professional coaches of a half dozen pro football teams as being incompetent is amusing. I dare say the wife of any single one of them probably knows more than you. :boxing:
 
Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Are you kidding? Brutal. The Dolphins had the game won and went prevent. The Jets had the game won and went prevent. The Bears had the game won and went prevent. Now I'm going to address your post. Are you telling us that the Broncos wore down the Bears with a bunch of 3 and outs? Sorry but I gotta :lmao: A total of 7 - 3 & outs before the 4th Q. :lmao: A total of a little over 100 yards in the 1st 3 Q's, with about 1/2 of it in one drive, somehow wore the Bears down. Comical. These guys need some endurance training.Apparently the Jets were gassed after allowing 57 yards rushing and 65 yards passing thru 3 Q's. Wimps.Now, for more entertainment check these thread. They are full of fantasy too. Especially the 1st one. Post #2 is a gem ( I mean the guy just wins) as is post #7 (how'd that work out for ya)? Not too good. Case now closed.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507830http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=372902
Good points. I'd bet on Tebow to keep on improving and avoid the off the field issues like VY. Most of his issues seem correctable. Do you think he has no potential at all to be a adequate passer in 2 years?
When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.I'll say this. He has a better chance of succeeding that Carr, Young or Garrabage but I am far from convinced. This place is notorious for jumping on a band wagon and riding it into a wall as the above threads show. The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.
So you are saying they never got a first down in the first 3 quarters?How many plays had the Broncos run at that point? What was the time of possession?Im not saying that that is the only reason, (REPEAT: THERE IS MORE THAN THIS AT WORK HERE - PLENTY OF LUCK) but there is a reason why you knock on the door for 3 quarters and bust through in the 4th. You can knock the theory all you like, but that is how a power offense works.
 
When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...
I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.

 
But you said his ### was gonna get shredded and that the Jets and Chargers were gonna plant him in the ground. And that didn't happen. You were wrong, and now are trying to cop out behind the "These things take time" line, while also using a ridiculous example like David Carr, whose 23-56 record as a starter is in stark contrast to Tebow's 8-3 record as a starter. Not that wins and losses are all on the QB - they never are - but if you are gonna use an absurd example like Carr, expect to be called out on it.
They are my 2 fantasy D's. I wastrying to pump them up. :football:
Haha, okay, whatever you say. :lol:
Anyway, both teams ####ed up and lost. Defensive brainfart and a missed GW FG. How am I copping out behind 'these things take time'? Because I am not jumping on this freakshow bandwagon of 4th Q lucky wins. Becasue I have time on my side and you don't? Anyone with 1 working braincell knows last week was pure luck. I analyze the whole product, 4 Q's, not a bucnh of 4th Q lucky winsover 1/2 season. If I did, I would look like the Josh Freeman hypers. Look at that guy now.

I told people from the get go that those 3 QB sucked balls and had to hear the BS until I finally proved that I right. Where are those 3? Backups at best and when they actually get in teh games they suck.
You are copping out by saying, "these things take time," because you went from, "The Jets and Chargers are gonna plant him in the ground," to, "These things take time," after your cold, hard prediction failed miserably, and now you are copping out with the, "These things take time," as you will just wait for him to lose a game and/or have a big game and then you will act as if that proves you were right all along, as if every good game doesn't mean a thing. Let's face it, the Broncos and Tebow in the last two months have done far that you (or me) thought they would do, but you just refuse to admit that, instead dismissing their wins as luck, as if luck is the only reason why they are winning (which is a laughable assertion). Once could be luck; twice is a trend; four times in a row now is a habit! Six weeks ago, if I had to said to you, "On December 13th, the Broncos will be 8-5 and sitting at first place in the AFC West," you would laughed in my face. But here we are. The fact that you can't even admit that Tebow has done far more than haters like you ever thought he would do just shows that you are incapable of being objective anymore.

Lastly, if you have a QB who has already proven that he is clutch at the end of games, that is a good sign. Many QBs over the years have been up nice stats, but crumble when the games is close and on the line at the end. Tebow, meanwhile, is already proving that he knows how to make plays at the end of games, so if he can just improve a little bit as a passer, he can be that much better. I think his ceiling as far as being a passer is somewhat limited, but given his other skills and intangibles, he doesn't need to become a great passer to be a good NFL QB.

 
Don't look now, but Teebs now has three straight games @ 50% or better completion rate and has increased passing yards the last 4 straight games.

improvement

 
When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...
I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.
Very :goodposting: The only thing I would add.

Speaking strictly about the Chicago game, the WR play really was awful for the first 3 quarters. I'm not saying this has been the case all season--but it was quite obviously the case this past Sunday. And given that the running game was completely ineffective, it's near impossible to sustain drives and put up a gaudy statline with little to no help from your WR's.

 
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When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...
I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.
Very :goodposting: The only thing I would add.

Speaking strictly about the Chicago game, the WR play really was awful for the first 3 quarters. I'm not saying this has been the case all season--but it was quite obviously the case this past Sunday. And given that the running game was completely ineffective, it's near impossible to sustain drives and put up a gaudy statline with little to no help from your WR's.
This is easy to say, for every drop pass there's a thrown pass into the nosebleeds, so they're even. If anyone has proven to feed off of Tebow's energy it's Thomas, he stepped up late in the MIA, MIN, and CHI miracles.
 
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The power of Tebow is not only improving the Broncos, it is improving the Broncos victims as well. Consider:Miami: 0-5 BT; 4-2 AT.oakland: 4-3 BT; 3-1 AT.Kansas City: 4-4 BT; 1-2 AT.*New York: 5-4 BT; 2-0 AT.Sand Diego: 4-6 BT; 1-0 AT.Houston (2010): 5-9 BT; 10-3 AT.* Kansas City had the misfortune of Matt Cassel becoming close and friendly with Von Miller and was subsequently out for the season. However, Tebow's influence cannot be denied; look how they got their one win.Conversely, the one team that has beaten Tebow has sufferend dire consequences:Detroit: 5-2 BT; 1-3 AT.Moral of the story: losing to Tebow has been one of the best things that could happen to NFL teams. Beating Tebow (and especially mocking him) leads to dissapointment, injuries, suspensions, and puts playoff hopes in jeopardy.
:lmao: :lmao: :thumbup: This is the best post that I have ever seen on this site. 6 years as a member and a year or so as a lurker before I signed up, I have never laughed so hard.
 
Can Tim Tebow Keep It Up?Posted Friday, December 9, 2011 12:27 PM Bill Barnwell The Tim Tebow experience completed its 10th start with its usual stunning comeback victory over the Vikings last Sunday. Of course, Tebow's packed a full career into those 10 starts: He's gone from laughingstock to starter twice, and in the meantime, he's played wide receiver and been the point man for an offense the NFL would have laughed at installing for most of the past 40 years. In those 10 starts, Tebow's numbers have been alternately impressive and gruesome. He's completed 48.5 percent of his passes in his starts and averaged just 162.6 passing yards per game, but he's thrown just four interceptions (including one lone pick in 2011) against 13 passing touchdowns. And of course, he's been a wildly effective runner, averaging nearly six yards per carry on his 106 attempts while scoring five rushing touchdowns. Oh, and most important, the Broncos are 7-3 in those games that Tebow starts and 4-14 in the games he doesn't.That's all great, but here's the million-dollar question: Can he keep it up?As you might suspect, Tebow is winning games in ways that very few quarterbacks have been able to pull off in the past, so finding comparable situations to what he's been able to do at the beginning of his career is difficult. For a variety of reasons, the most statistically comparable quarterback to Tebow during their respective first 10 starts is Jake Delhomme, who isn't comparable to Tebow in real-life in just about any way. So to figure out if Tebow can sustain this level of play and win, we're going to have to break his performance into little chunks and analyze them individually. And let's start with the most tangible question for the big-picture people out there.1. Can Tebow keep winning this frequently?As you may have noticed, Tebow has basically been pulling out close games in the fourth quarter all season. His 6-1 record has seen him win five games by a touchdown or less, and his sixth win (by 14 points) entered the fourth quarter as a tie game. On the other hand, his lone loss was a 35-point blowout by the Lions, who have promptly gone 1-3 and become an embarrassment to the league after mocking Tebow. Hmm.In all, despite winning all those games with Tebow as the starter this year, the Broncos have actually been outscored by a total of two points in those games. Throw in Tebow's three starts at the end of last season, in which he went 1-2 and both won and lost a game by a touchdown or less, and the Broncos have been outscored by 22 points in Tebow's first 10 professional starts. Despite that, they are 7-3.Here's the problem, though. From 1990 through 2010, 124 quarterbacks debuted and made 10 starts. Eighty-one of those quarterbacks were outscored through their first 10 games, so Tebow is in frequent company. Of those 81 quarterbacks, though, guess how many managed to put up a winning record in the process? Try two. Delhomme was one, since he went 7-3 while getting outscored by 11 points. The other one was a player whose style and college success would remind folks of Tebow: Vince Young, who started his career 6-4 and was outscored by 11 points in those games. In their next 10 starts, those two guys were able to keep their heads above water, since they combined to go 12-8 while outscoring the opposition by just 20 points, or one point per game.The 13 quarterbacks who started their careers 5-5 might be a better example of how point differential matters. Seven of the 5-5 guys had a negative point differential, ranging from -4 (Rick Mirer) to -45 (Todd Collins). In their next 10 starts, those quarterbacks went a combined 23-43 (Note: Not all of the quarterbacks made it to 10 starts) and were outscored by 257 points. Meanwhile, the other six guys had positive point differentials that ranged from +4 (Steve McNair) to +65 (Aaron Rodgers). In their next 10 games, they went 30-25 and outscored the opposition by 104 points.QUARTERBACK DEBUTS Starts 1-10 Starts 11-20 Player Point Differential Wins Losses Point Differential Todd Collins -45 5 5 -3 Trent Dilfer -41 2 8 -141 Chris Simms -37 2 4 -52 Patrick Ramsey -25 2 8 -53 Derek Anderson -24 5 5 4 Scott Mitchell -23 3 7 -35 Rick Mirer -4 4 6 23 Steve McNair 4 6 4 54 Charlie Batch 6 6 4 -3 Kyle Boller 7 7 3 60 A.J. Feeley 25 2 3 -6 Michael Vick 33 6 4 14 Aaron Rodgers 65 3 7 -15 Over the second group of 10 games (starts 11-20 of a player's career), just one player was able to go 7-3 or better while being outscored by his opposition: legendary Bears quarterback Shane Matthews. It's just extremely difficult to win a lot of games while you're getting outscored over any period of time. Twenty-two quarterbacks started their career with a 10-start stretch that saw their team get outscored by a total between two and 42 points, or within a 20-point margin of Tebow's Broncos. In their next 10 starts, they went a combined 93-105 (46.9 percent). In fact, it's hard to win games consistently, period. Thirteen quarterbacks over the time frame started their careers 7-3, like Tebow did, regardless of what their point differential was. In their next 10 games, they went a combined 63-67 (48.4 percent).So, in other words, the fact that Tebow's started his career winning seven of his first 10 starts shouldn't tell us very much about what he's likely to do going forward, but the fact that he's done so while being outscored isn't exactly a great sign.2. Can Tebow keep winning close games?Seven Tebow starts have ended with a margin of victory of one touchdown or less. Tebow's Broncos have won six of them, often on the final drive of the game, in incredibly exciting fashion. Fans want him to keep that up. The TV networks want him to keep that up. We, truthfully, want him to keep that up, since it's fun to see a guy who sails passes for three quarters suddenly throw 35-yard spirals onto outstretched fingertips. But is there any historical precedent for a player keeping up that style of winning?Again, there are not many players to compare Tebow to. Only two players since 1990 have gone 6-1 or better in close games amidst their first 10 starts at quarterback: Delhomme (like Tebow, 6-1) and Chad Henne (6-0!). In their next 10 starts, Delhomme and Henne were 6-6 in games decided by a touchdown or less. That jibes with our research that a team's record in those close games from year to year is basically random and will revolve around the mean (a .500 record). But it's also just two players.Instead, let's go with the 20 players who won at least four games by a touchdown or less in their first 10 starts and had a winning record in those close games. During their first 10 starts, those players' overall win-loss record was 124-76 (a winning percentage of .620), and they were a combined 87-35 (.713) in games decided by a touchdown or less. Pretty impressive. In their next 10 starts, though, those quarterbacks were a combined 94-94, and in games decided by one TD or less, they were 48-42 (.533).Winning close games to start your career is fun and profitable, but it doesn't indicate anything about your ability to do so going forward. Gus Johnson's awareness of this rule is one of the reasons he stopped doing NFL games after an incredible 2010 season.3. Can Tebow continue to avoid throwing interceptions?During his time under center, Tebow has exhibited a freakish ability to avoid being intercepted. Whether it's the location of his incomplete passes, a scheme built to avoid putting him in situations in which his throws are dangerous, some incredible amount of skill, or total blind luck, Tebow's basically the safest quarterback in football when the ball is in the air. He's thrown just four interceptions in 229 attempts during his 10 starts, producing a ridiculous interception rate of 1.7 percent. This year, he's gotten even stingier, with just one pick all year and an otherworldly interception rate of 0.6 percent. In both cases, Tebow is better than career interception rate leader Aaron Rodgers, who's going to win this year's MVP. Has anybody played like that during his NFL infancy?Well, a few players have. If you hate Tim Tebow, you might want to turn away right now, because a bunch of those players turned out to be really great quarterbacks. Six players had interception rates better than Tebow's during their first 10 starts: David Garrard (0.7 percent), Michael Vick (0.8 percent), Damon Huard (1.1 percent, although he finished his first 10 starts eight years after being drafted), Chad Pennington (1.4 percent), Mark Brunell (1.6 percent), and Philip Rivers (1.7 percent). That's good company! We're still in the infancy of using stats to project performance going forward, but it's entirely possible that the ability to avoid interceptions is a sign that a player has professional viability, just like a pitcher's ability to avoid home runs and induce ground balls in the minor leagues has been linked to success at the major league level.Were any of those guys able to keep their interception rates low, though? Not really. Those players with the 10 lowest interception rates during their first 10 games (including all of the ones listed above) produced an average interception rate of 1.5 percent during their first 10 starts, but in their next 10 starts, their interception rate doubled to 3.2 percent. In all, quarterbacks' interception rate during their first 10 games explains exactly two percent of those players' interceptions going forward.The numbers suggest that Tebow is exhibiting a sign of future professional viability, but even if he makes it as a professional quarterback, he's been lucky to avoid those picks so far. He will have to pay the interception piper eventually.4. Can a quarterback win while completing so few of his passes?Guys were capable of putting up winning seasons with a 48.5 percent completion rate at one point in the NFL's history, but it was the late '60s and early '70s, not the hyper-accurate times of 2011. Just six quarterbacks since 1990 have started their careers with completion percentages over their first 10 starts below what Tebow's done, and only one of them really had a serious NFL career. Those six were Mike McMahon (43.8 percent), Heath Shuler (43.9 percent), Ryan Leaf (44.1 percent), Anthony Wright (47.2 percent), Drew Bledsoe (47.4 percent), and Akili Smith (48.2 percent). Nothing good has ever come out of being listed in a group with Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith. And the players just ahead of Tebow in early completion percentage are Browning Nagle, Craig Erickson, Craig Whelihan, Eli Manning, Joey Harrington, and Kerry Collins. It's not a good list of comparable colleagues.The bad news for Tebow is that a player's completion percentage — unlike his interception rate — tends to stay pretty consistent as he gets more NFL experience. A player's completion percentage during his first 10 starts explains about 25 percent of the variance between the completion percentages of quarterbacks in their next 10 starts. Of those quarterbacks, the only ones to really ever gain some level of accuracy to justify a pro career are Bledsoe, Collins, and Manning, each of whom had significantly better credentials as a pro-style pocket passer coming out of school than Tebow. Players as inaccurate as Tebow wash out of the league at an extraordinarily fast rate.We see very little statistical evidence to suggest that Tebow has a viable career as a pro quarterback ahead of him. On the other hand, if anyone is going to be an exception to quarterback statistics, it's going to be Tebow. No, it's not because he prays or tries really hard or is a fearless leader. It's because, for better or worse, he has a style that's so dramatically different from just about every other quarterback who has come along over the past 20 years. He adds more running value and changes defenses than anyone outside of Michael Vick, and that's something stats clearly don't capture when we're comparing him to players like Drew Bledsoe or Jake Delhomme. Tim Tebow probably can't win 70 percent of the time or pick up victories in 85 percent of his close games, but maybe he can sustain an incredibly low interception rate or win with an embarrassing completion percentage in a way that other players can't. At the very least, it's certainly going to be a lot of fun to see him try to pull it off.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bill Barnwell is a staff writer for Grantland.
 
Can Tim Tebow Keep It Up?Posted Friday, December 9, 2011 12:27 PM Bill Barnwell We see very little statistical evidence to suggest that Tebow has a viable career as a pro quarterback ahead of him. On the other hand, if anyone is going to be an exception to quarterback statistics, it's going to be Tebow. No, it's not because he prays or tries really hard or is a fearless leader. It's because, for better or worse, he has a style that's so dramatically different from just about every other quarterback who has come along over the past 20 years. He adds more running value and changes defenses than anyone outside of Michael Vick, and that's something stats clearly don't capture when we're comparing him to players like Drew Bledsoe or Jake Delhomme. Tim Tebow probably can't win 70 percent of the time or pick up victories in 85 percent of his close games, but maybe he can sustain an incredibly low interception rate or win with an embarrassing completion percentage in a way that other players can't. At the very least, it's certainly going to be a lot of fun to see him try to pull it off.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bill Barnwell is a staff writer for Grantland.
That was a lotta read. The final paragraph really sums up my take on the matter. I'm looking forward to this weekend's game. :banned:
 
The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.
So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.You're contradicting yourself in different threads.
 
Can Tim Tebow Keep It Up?

Posted Friday, December 9, 2011 12:27 PM Bill Barnwell

We see very little statistical evidence to suggest that Tebow has a viable career as a pro quarterback ahead of him. On the other hand, if anyone is going to be an exception to quarterback statistics, it's going to be Tebow. No, it's not because he prays or tries really hard or is a fearless leader. It's because, for better or worse, he has a style that's so dramatically different from just about every other quarterback who has come along over the past 20 years. He adds more running value and changes defenses than anyone outside of Michael Vick, and that's something stats clearly don't capture when we're comparing him to players like Drew Bledsoe or Jake Delhomme. Tim Tebow probably can't win 70 percent of the time or pick up victories in 85 percent of his close games, but maybe he can sustain an incredibly low interception rate or win with an embarrassing completion percentage in a way that other players can't. At the very least, it's certainly going to be a lot of fun to see him try to pull it off.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Barnwell is a staff writer for Grantland.
That was a lotta read. The final paragraph really sums up my take on the matter. I'm looking forward to this weekend's game. :banned:
:goodposting: I have always thought that trying to use "standard" QB metrics to measure Tebow is a little difficult - because the guy is hardly a standard QB. I have said this many times:

Tebow is not QB who can run - he is an RB who can throw (not to be confused with Urlacher's derogetory attempt at calling him just a RB). Even if he didn't improve his passing ability he might be a decent NFL starter (he's helped his team win games to this point).

On the other hand, if his passing does actually improve...well, let's just say, he might actually be what some people in this thread think he is.

 
The power of Tebow is not only improving the Broncos, it is improving the Broncos victims as well. Consider:Miami: 0-5 BT; 4-2 AT.oakland: 4-3 BT; 3-1 AT.Kansas City: 4-4 BT; 1-2 AT.*New York: 5-4 BT; 2-0 AT.Sand Diego: 4-6 BT; 1-0 AT.Houston (2010): 5-9 BT; 10-3 AT.* Kansas City had the misfortune of Matt Cassel becoming close and friendly with Von Miller and was subsequently out for the season. However, Tebow's influence cannot be denied; look how they got their one win.Conversely, the one team that has beaten Tebow has sufferend dire consequences:Detroit: 5-2 BT; 1-3 AT.Moral of the story: losing to Tebow has been one of the best things that could happen to NFL teams. Beating Tebow (and especially mocking him) leads to dissapointment, injuries, suspensions, and puts playoff hopes in jeopardy.
:lmao: :lmao: :thumbup: This is the best post that I have ever seen on this site. 6 years as a member and a year or so as a lurker before I signed up, I have never laughed so hard.
Lol, thanks. That may be the highest internet praise anyone has ever given me...truely, Tebow brings out the best in all of us.
 
The power of Tebow is not only improving the Broncos, it is improving the Broncos victims as well. Consider:Miami: 0-5 BT; 4-2 AT.oakland: 4-3 BT; 3-1 AT.Kansas City: 4-4 BT; 1-2 AT.*New York: 5-4 BT; 2-0 AT.Sand Diego: 4-6 BT; 1-0 AT.Houston (2010): 5-9 BT; 10-3 AT.* Kansas City had the misfortune of Matt Cassel becoming close and friendly with Von Miller and was subsequently out for the season. However, Tebow's influence cannot be denied; look how they got their one win.Conversely, the one team that has beaten Tebow has sufferend dire consequences:Detroit: 5-2 BT; 1-3 AT.Moral of the story: losing to Tebow has been one of the best things that could happen to NFL teams. Beating Tebow (and especially mocking him) leads to dissapointment, injuries, suspensions, and puts playoff hopes in jeopardy.
:lmao: :lmao: :thumbup: This is the best post that I have ever seen on this site. 6 years as a member and a year or so as a lurker before I signed up, I have never laughed so hard.
Lol, thanks. That may be the highest internet praise anyone has ever given me...truely, Tebow brings out the best in all of us.
:tebow: lol, No problem! Living here in Northern Colorado and being a Bronco fan, you should see all the facebook banter and pics concerning Tebow going around.
 
Count on Ocho to make things interesting:

ochocinco Chad Ochocinco

He sure does ---> @timtebow RT @MON3Yfresh: @ochocinco god has a twitter?

 
Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.
Are you kidding? Brutal. The Dolphins had the game won and went prevent. The Jets had the game won and went prevent. The Bears had the game won and went prevent. Now I'm going to address your post. Are you telling us that the Broncos wore down the Bears with a bunch of 3 and outs? Sorry but I gotta :lmao: A total of 7 - 3 & outs before the 4th Q. :lmao: A total of a little over 100 yards in the 1st 3 Q's, with about 1/2 of it in one drive, somehow wore the Bears down. Comical. These guys need some endurance training.Apparently the Jets were gassed after allowing 57 yards rushing and 65 yards passing thru 3 Q's. Wimps.Now, for more entertainment check these thread. They are full of fantasy too. Especially the 1st one. Post #2 is a gem ( I mean the guy just wins) as is post #7 (how'd that work out for ya)? Not too good. Case now closed.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507830http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=372902
Good points. I'd bet on Tebow to keep on improving and avoid the off the field issues like VY. Most of his issues seem correctable. Do you think he has no potential at all to be a adequate passer in 2 years?
When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.I'll say this. He has a better chance of succeeding that Carr, Young or Garrabage but I am far from convinced. This place is notorious for jumping on a band wagon and riding it into a wall as the above threads show. The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.
:rolleyes:
 

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