Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...

I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.

10. Divine intervention. Forgot that one.whether you believe or not, my favorite part of this article is the last paragraph:

Plenty of guys can throw a football, but very few can inspire grown men wearing the same uniform to believe that together they can achieve great things. Even fewer can cause the grown men wearing a different uniform to sense that, no matter what they do, it’s simply not their day.

 

[Two Deep]

The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.

So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.

You're contradicting yourself in different threads.

Both these guys will give you a false sense that they have what it takes only to find out several years later they don't. You have to be consistent to succeed in the long run as a QB in the NFL. These guys games aren't geared toward being consistent. They are freelance players. The only reason they are having succees now is because they are new to the league and the other teams defense has not caught up to their style of play. The wildcat looked good and succeeded at first too, only to drop by the wayside. My opinion is Tebow and Newton's game in the long run will follow the same path as the wildcat.

 

[FDC]

Both these guys will give you a false sense that they have what it takes only to find out several years later they don't. You have to be consistent to succeed in the long run as a QB in the NFL. These guys games aren't geared toward being consistent. They are freelance players. The only reason they are having succees now is because they are new to the league and the other teams defense has not caught up to their style of play. The wildcat looked good and succeeded at first too, only to drop by the wayside. My opinion is Tebow and Newton's game in the long run will follow the same path as the wildcat.

Thats a moot point. You don't win or make plays as a 1st/2nd year QB unless you are a good freelancer. From Aaron Rodgers himself in an interview... he is extremely impressed with Newton + Dalton because he knows that they don't really know what they are doing out there. And they will realize that themselves in a couple of years. Newton's number of losses are probably getting overblown as well. 6 times Panthers were tied or leading in the 4th and they lost everyone of them. 2 of them were solely because of missed kicks. A little luck here and there and the Panthers are smack dab in the middle of the playoff picture.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Bellichek doesn't put much stock in the criticism about Tebow's mechanics."I don't agree with any of that. I think his passing was good in college, he was a very productive passer in college, and he's throwing the ball well in this league," Belichick said. "He throws it short, throws it intermediaite, can throw it deep. I think he's got some very good throws, as good as anybody that you'd want to put in there."

I only remember how much he love Fred Jackson and Ocho, his analysis doesn't seem ludicrous at all. How much smoke is the hoody blowing here? Or how true is it?

 

[GoL]

When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

I'll say this. He has a better chance of succeeding that Carr, Young or Garrabage but I am far from convinced. This place is notorious for jumping on a band wagon and riding it into a wall as the above threads show. The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.

There are a lot of young QBs having success right now, Tebow included. There are also a lot of young QBs that are struggling perhaps as a result of "defenses cathing up". I can understand how you can watch Tebow and not see him as a starting QB in 2-3 years. Which young QBs do you see having the talent to make it in the NFL long term? Bradford was a guy that was getting a lot of attention last year at this time but he seems to have taken a big step back, injuries not withstanding.

The one thing that I've come to appreciate about Tebow is that he seems to have exactly the attitude that you'd want from a starting QB. He doesn't let what everyone says affect him, he's a positive leader on the team, and he seems to be working very hard to get better.

I was a doubter early on but I'm buying now. Ask Rams fans if they would trade their "pretty passer" for a streak of ugly wins.

 

[CalBear]

The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.

So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.

You're contradicting yourself in different threads.

Both these guys will give you a false sense that they have what it takes only to find out several years later they don't. You have to be consistent to succeed in the long run as a QB in the NFL. These guys games aren't geared toward being consistent. They are freelance players. The only reason they are having succees now is because they are new to the league and the other teams defense has not caught up to their style of play. The wildcat looked good and succeeded at first too, only to drop by the wayside. My opinion is Tebow and Newton's game in the long run will follow the same path as the wildcat.

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

 

[Two Deep]

The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.

So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.

You're contradicting yourself in different threads.

Both these guys will give you a false sense that they have what it takes only to find out several years later they don't. You have to be consistent to succeed in the long run as a QB in the NFL. These guys games aren't geared toward being consistent. They are freelance players. The only reason they are having succees now is because they are new to the league and the other teams defense has not caught up to their style of play. The wildcat looked good and succeeded at first too, only to drop by the wayside. My opinion is Tebow and Newton's game in the long run will follow the same path as the wildcat.

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

 

[zDragon]

The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.

So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.

You're contradicting yourself in different threads.

Both these guys will give you a false sense that they have what it takes only to find out several years later they don't. You have to be consistent to succeed in the long run as a QB in the NFL. These guys games aren't geared toward being consistent. They are freelance players. The only reason they are having succees now is because they are new to the league and the other teams defense has not caught up to their style of play. The wildcat looked good and succeeded at first too, only to drop by the wayside. My opinion is Tebow and Newton's game in the long run will follow the same path as the wildcat.

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve is lucky Tampa got rid of him and that he ended up where he did. No one would have said what you just did otherwise. Especially based on his first two years playing in the league.

 

[Chaka]

Count on Ocho to make things interestingchocinco Chad Ochocinco He sure does ---> @timtebow RT @MON3Yfresh: @ochocinco god has a twitter?

Would someone please translate this for the Twilitterate?

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

The Cam Newton one being a classic this year. All that guy does is lose.

So Cam breaks rookie Qb record and record and elevates the worst nfl offense to a top 7 position...and he sucks because all he does is lose.Tebow has horrible stats and elevates the 2nd worst team to the playoff contender...and he sucks because all he does is win.

You're contradicting yourself in different threads.

Both these guys will give you a false sense that they have what it takes only to find out several years later they don't. You have to be consistent to succeed in the long run as a QB in the NFL. These guys games aren't geared toward being consistent. They are freelance players. The only reason they are having succees now is because they are new to the league and the other teams defense has not caught up to their style of play. The wildcat looked good and succeeded at first too, only to drop by the wayside. My opinion is Tebow and Newton's game in the long run will follow the same path as the wildcat.

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve is lucky Tampa got rid of him and that he ended up where he did. No one would have said what you just did otherwise. Especially based on his first two years playing in the league.

aaaaaaannnnnnndddd this is where I decide people are going to far with the Tebow Hype...

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Don't look now, but Teebs now has three straight games @ 50% or better completion rate and has increased passing yards the last 4 straight games.

improvement

He has improved from god awful to just a little better than god awful

 

[firstseason1988]

Count on Ocho to make things interestingchocinco Chad Ochocinco He sure does ---> @timtebow RT @MON3Yfresh: @ochocinco god has a twitter?

Would someone please translate this for the Twilitterate?

Not sure I want to know.

 

[Brawler]

Just want to throw this in.Generally, why aren't people surprised when a power running team gets most of its yards in the 4th quarter?Why are people so surprised that this power running team is wearing teams down and getting their yards and points in the 4th quarter?The only thing this team is doing that other power teams usually dont is they stick with it.

Its not so much surprised a power run team is winning, its because even power teams don't throw wlike 12 passes in a game (win or loose) in the NFL. Its too weird to comprehend, so we all wonder what the heck is happening. BTW tho the defense has been awsome but there's no doubt they've been lucky too. Week 14 - OT field goal to win with no points until the 4th quarterWeek 13 - Almost 2:1 possession in favor of Min and a winning FG with 0 time leftWeek 12 - OT field goalWeek 11 - Half the 1st downs of opponent, game winning TD with 58 seconds to goYou can't get that close to the wire all the time without taking losses eventually. So far the odds have fallen on their side IMO. I'd say they should be about 6-7. No one would be nearly as excited if they were.Can't wait to see the matchup with NE. Am thinking it might be like the Detroit game where they got destroyed, but with NE's flimsy defense, it might just as easily be a higher scoring one like vs the Vikings or Raiders. In both those they got a non-offensive touchdown to help out with the scoring. I think it either has to go that way or Brady throws 3ish Ints for the Broncs to win.Go Pats!

 

[thatguy]

When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...

I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.

Very The only thing I would add.

Speaking strictly about the Chicago game, the WR play really was awful for the first 3 quarters. I'm not saying this has been the case all season--but it was quite obviously the case this past Sunday. And given that the running game was completely ineffective, it's near impossible to sustain drives and put up a gaudy statline with little to no help from your WR's.

This is easy to say, for every drop pass there's a thrown pass into the nosebleeds, so they're even. If anyone has proven to feed off of Tebow's energy it's Thomas, he stepped up late in the MIA, MIN, and CHI miracles.

I'm referring to one game--please show me where Tebow threw the ball into the nosebleeds against Chicago. And regardless, I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said anyway. The bottom line is there were at least 5 dropped passes, including a long dropped TD.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Count on Ocho to make things interestingchocinco Chad Ochocinco He sure does ---> @timtebow RT @MON3Yfresh: @ochocinco god has a twitter?

Would someone please translate this for the Twilitterate?

Not sure I want to know.

@MON3Yfresh asked @ochocinco "god has a twitter?" @ochocinco responded "he sure does" and pointed to @timtebow... @ochocinco is stating the fact that god plays qb for the broncos and performs miracles on his day off Copy and paste this to wiki answers

 

[CalBear]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

 

[ShaHBucks]

When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...

I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.

Very The only thing I would add.

Speaking strictly about the Chicago game, the WR play really was awful for the first 3 quarters. I'm not saying this has been the case all season--but it was quite obviously the case this past Sunday. And given that the running game was completely ineffective, it's near impossible to sustain drives and put up a gaudy statline with little to no help from your WR's.

This is easy to say, for every drop pass there's a thrown pass into the nosebleeds, so they're even. If anyone has proven to feed off of Tebow's energy it's Thomas, he stepped up late in the MIA, MIN, and CHI miracles.

I'm referring to one game--please show me where Tebow threw the ball into the nosebleeds against Chicago. And regardless, I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said anyway. The bottom line is there were at least 5 dropped passes, including a long dropped TD.

The Tomas thing came to me mid-sentence, had nothing to do with nothing. He sailed about 2-3 that was nowhere close to Thomas, If I watch the game again I'll let you know, but every qb in the league deals with dropped passes(see: Manning, Eli).

 

[Kanil]

I'm hoping for a lot more spread this week. This is the week to do it. Softest secondary we'll play and a stout run D. I would not be surprised to see 40+ pass attempts and quite a bit of hurry up this week. I really think that's the only way the Broncos have a shot at beating the Cheatriots. Although I think the Pats will have one of their worst offensive games (thinking bottom 4 for the year). This is mainly because the Broncos pass rush is tremendous and their run D is still not up to par (I think we're allowing right around 5ypc). I could see the Pats keeping a more conservative game plan involving a lot of rushes and screen passes. It's going to be a fun game to watch.

 

[ivnabru]

When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...

I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.

Very The only thing I would add.

Speaking strictly about the Chicago game, the WR play really was awful for the first 3 quarters. I'm not saying this has been the case all season--but it was quite obviously the case this past Sunday. And given that the running game was completely ineffective, it's near impossible to sustain drives and put up a gaudy statline with little to no help from your WR's.

This is easy to say, for every drop pass there's a thrown pass into the nosebleeds, so they're even. If anyone has proven to feed off of Tebow's energy it's Thomas, he stepped up late in the MIA, MIN, and CHI miracles.

I'm referring to one game--please show me where Tebow threw the ball into the nosebleeds against Chicago. And regardless, I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said anyway. The bottom line is there were at least 5 dropped passes, including a long dropped TD.

The Tomas thing came to me mid-sentence, had nothing to do with nothing. He sailed about 2-3 that was nowhere close to Thomas, If I watch the game again I'll let you know, but every qb in the league deals with dropped passes(see: Manning, Eli).

The Broncos had 6 dropped passes that game. There are 13 guys in the NFL with at least 7 drops meaning they're averaging at least 1/2 drops each game. The next 13 guys are averaging less than that.Let's assume the Broncos have receivers who drop a lot more than any other team. We'll say the top 2 WRs, the top TE and the top RB all average 1/2 drops per game. That's an average of 2 drops each game. This would be if the top 4 targets drop more than just about anyone. So yes, if people are talking about Tebow's completion percentage for a particular 3 quarter period of a game that had an obscene amount of drops then it should matter.

If it helps Victor Cruz has 7 drops and Jake Ballard has 5 those are the leaders on the Giants. I can't find a complete list but I think it's fair to assume that the Giants have averaged 3 or less drops/game. Cruz + Ballard have caught more than 1/3 of Eli's completions and account for 12 drops. Figure everyone else has the same drop rate and that would put the Giants around 35 or so drops in 13 games. There are clearly guys with lower drop rates so it should be a lower amount than the 2 2/3 drops/game that I'm extrapolating anyway. I'd guess with guys like Nicks (more than 20% of Eli's completions with less than 5 drops) the Giants probably average around 2 drops/game.

Either way when people are saying Tebow was 3/16 in the first 3 quarters to put his performance down and the receivers had 6 drops in those 3 quarters (possibly 5 not sure if the 6th came in the 4th). Then it is an important consideration.

 

[CravenM]

What is the Bronco's win/loss statistic when Tebow starts as QB as compared to any other QB?

This year? Last year? In the years since Elway? In the last decade? In the last 2 decades?

As an expert in math and statistics, numbers can be made to look however you want. Pick the right period, the right analogy, the right supposition, and anything can be made to look convincing.

People who are trying to use passing statistics as "proof" of Tebow being Great or Terrible are fools.

Let history be his judge. Hopefully, the Broncos will support this running and option offense to take advantage of his unique skills. If they don't, perhaps some other team will. If no other teams attempts to give him a few years to prove his worth, it'll probably be because meat-head, ex-NFL players are calling the shots (like Elway) who aren't smart enough to try something innovative.

 

[DoubleG]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Oooh! Oooh!

I know this one (incidentally it's the same answer as to when Tebow makes a mistake and the Broncos lose, FavreCo will be in here saying "SEE?!?!"):

"CONFIRMATION BIAS"

 

[munchkin]

There are enough flawed teams in the NFL for the Broncos to be "successful" with Tebow as their QB. Right now the Broncos are winning with a solid and opportunistic defense, a solid running game, good special teams and clutch plays by Tebow late in the game. Teams in the playoffs may still have flaws but their strengths are generally much greater.

This weekend's game against the Patriots will be a good case study. The Pats defense has given up a lot of yards and points but their offense has been able to outscore most of the opponents. If Tebow can keep his offense in the game against a Brady led passing attack then Broncos' fans could feel more comfortable about the teams' prospects in the playoffs.

The Bears without Cutler and Forte didn't have enough offense to overcome their mental errors even though their defense played generally pretty well. That and two very long field goals by an often erratic Matt Prater. The Vikings (certainly not a playoff caliber team) without ADP put up points with Harvin but their defense abandoned coverage late in the game when Tebow ran toward the LOS giving up huge plays.

Couple an earlier victory against the Jets with a victory against the Patriots and it will be difficult to argue against the legitimacy of the Broncos team of which Tebow is a prominent piece.

 

[Two Deep]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Athleticism will only take you so far. The other intangibles; the ability to read defenses, accuracy, consistency and playing within a game plan are what is needed to be successful. Newton and Tebow are two big atheletic QB's who over a period of time will be game planned by the opposing defenses and will eventually have to have the other intangibles, and in my opinion that is where they will fail. Michael Vick is the ultimate athletic QB. He should have annihilated this league, but he is lacking the intangibles. Again this is my opinion and will only be supported/or not over time.

 

[CalBear]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Athleticism will only take you so far. The other intangibles; the ability to read defenses, accuracy, consistency and playing within a game plan are what is needed to be successful. Newton and Tebow are two big atheletic QB's who over a period of time will be game planned by the opposing defenses and will eventually have to have the other intangibles, and in my opinion that is where they will fail.

Why do you think they will fail? Being athletic is not incompatible with being able to read defenses or throw accurately.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Teboverload

 

[Two Deep]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Athleticism will only take you so far. The other intangibles; the ability to read defenses, accuracy, consistency and playing within a game plan are what is needed to be successful. Newton and Tebow are two big atheletic QB's who over a period of time will be game planned by the opposing defenses and will eventually have to have the other intangibles, and in my opinion that is where they will fail.

Why do you think they will fail? Being athletic is not incompatible with being able to read defenses or throw accurately.

NFL.com profileweaknesses

Tebow really struggles with his accuracy. Release is far to slow to fit balls into spots against NFL defensive backs. Release point and mechanics (elongated, wind-mill delivery which comes out too low) likely need to be altered. Was not asked to run through pro-style progressions and struggled reading defenses, especially those with NFL concepts, in college

Newton:

Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility. Numerous off the field issues worth investigating.

 

[Two Deep]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Athleticism will only take you so far. The other intangibles; the ability to read defenses, accuracy, consistency and playing within a game plan are what is needed to be successful. Newton and Tebow are two big atheletic QB's who over a period of time will be game planned by the opposing defenses and will eventually have to have the other intangibles, and in my opinion that is where they will fail.

Why do you think they will fail? Being athletic is not incompatible with being able to read defenses or throw accurately.

My twenty years of Quarterback scouting.

 

[moleculo]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Athleticism will only take you so far. The other intangibles; the ability to read defenses, accuracy, consistency and playing within a game plan are what is needed to be successful. Newton and Tebow are two big atheletic QB's who over a period of time will be game planned by the opposing defenses and will eventually have to have the other intangibles, and in my opinion that is where they will fail.

Why do you think they will fail? Being athletic is not incompatible with being able to read defenses or throw accurately.

NFL.com profileweaknesses

Tebow really struggles with his accuracy. Release is far to slow to fit balls into spots against NFL defensive backs. Release point and mechanics (elongated, wind-mill delivery which comes out too low) likely need to be altered. Was not asked to run through pro-style progressions and struggled reading defenses, especially those with NFL concepts, in college

Newton:

Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility. Numerous off the field issues worth investigating.

Nice. Now do Blaine Gabbert and Jimmy Clausen.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

My twenty years of Quarterback scouting.

 

[CalBear]

NFL.com profile

weaknesses

Tebow really struggles with his accuracy. Release is far to slow to fit balls into spots against NFL defensive backs. Release point and mechanics (elongated, wind-mill delivery which comes out too low) likely need to be altered. Was not asked to run through pro-style progressions and struggled reading defenses, especially those with NFL concepts, in college

Newton:

Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility. Numerous off the field issues worth investigating.

So you're convinced based on scouting reports, and you don't have any evidence based on their actual NFL play? Do you think there's no QB in history that came out of college with a scouting report that said "poor footwork" or "inconsistent accuracy" who later was successful? Cam Newton is about to finish in the top 10, possibly top 5 all-time in terms of completion percentage for a rookie QB.

 

[jonboltz]

You're right, this guy will never make it in the NFL.

Steve Young was one of the most cerebral and consistent QB's ever. The guy could read defenses and throw with the best of them. Nice try....

Steve Young was definitely a freelancer. And he was consistent. What is it about Newton and Tebow that you think makes them unable to be consistent at any future point of their careers?

Athleticism will only take you so far. The other intangibles; the ability to read defenses, accuracy, consistency and playing within a game plan are what is needed to be successful. Newton and Tebow are two big atheletic QB's who over a period of time will be game planned by the opposing defenses and will eventually have to have the other intangibles, and in my opinion that is where they will fail.

Why do you think they will fail? Being athletic is not incompatible with being able to read defenses or throw accurately.

NFL.com profileweaknesses

Tebow really struggles with his accuracy. Release is far to slow to fit balls into spots against NFL defensive backs. Release point and mechanics (elongated, wind-mill delivery which comes out too low) likely need to be altered. Was not asked to run through pro-style progressions and struggled reading defenses, especially those with NFL concepts, in college

Newton:

Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility. Numerous off the field issues worth investigating.

Welcome to the scouting report weaknesses of almost every single QB to come out of college in pretty much forever.

 

[Two Deep]

NFL.com profile

weaknesses

Tebow really struggles with his accuracy. Release is far to slow to fit balls into spots against NFL defensive backs. Release point and mechanics (elongated, wind-mill delivery which comes out too low) likely need to be altered. Was not asked to run through pro-style progressions and struggled reading defenses, especially those with NFL concepts, in college

Newton:

Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility. Numerous off the field issues worth investigating.

So you're convinced based on scouting reports, and you don't have any evidence based on their actual NFL play? Do you think there's no QB in history that came out of college with a scouting report that said "poor footwork" or "inconsistent accuracy" who later was successful? Cam Newton is about to finish in the top 10, possibly top 5 all-time in terms of completion percentage for a rookie QB.

The evidence we have especially on Tebow is not supporting of your case and in fact reinforces the pre-draft scouting reports.

 

[CalBear]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

#3

He is a mobile quarterback with good quickness, agility, and awareness. He has a solid throwing motion, and he displayed fantastic accuracy. He has the athletic ability to be a threat running the ball as well as throwing it. He is also a very intelligent quarterback who reads defenses well and makes good, quick decisions. He has a tremendous work ethic on the field as well as in the film room, and he displays good leadership qualities. He has good, quick footwork, sound mechanics, and a high release point.

 

[CalBear]

So you're convinced based on scouting reports, and you don't have any evidence based on their actual NFL play? Do you think there's no QB in history that came out of college with a scouting report that said "poor footwork" or "inconsistent accuracy" who later was successful? Cam Newton is about to finish in the top 10, possibly top 5 all-time in terms of completion percentage for a rookie QB.

The evidence we have especially on Tebow is not supporting of your case and in fact reinforces the pre-draft scouting reports.

I'm not claiming that Tebow will be successful, but I think it's ridiculous to assert that he won't be successful because of a scouting report. And it's even more ridiculous to assert that Newton will not be successful because of a scouting report that's clearly wrong.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

2010 - Andy Dalton, anytime - Drew Brees?#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers?#3

He is a mobile quarterback with good quickness, agility, and awareness. He has a solid throwing motion, and he displayed fantastic accuracy. He has the athletic ability to be a threat running the ball as well as throwing it. He is also a very intelligent quarterback who reads defenses well and makes good, quick decisions. He has a tremendous work ethic on the field as well as in the film room, and he displays good leadership qualities. He has good, quick footwork, sound mechanics, and a high release point.

Blaine Gabbert, Dennis Dixon?

 

[Two Deep]

So you're convinced based on scouting reports, and you don't have any evidence based on their actual NFL play? Do you think there's no QB in history that came out of college with a scouting report that said "poor footwork" or "inconsistent accuracy" who later was successful? Cam Newton is about to finish in the top 10, possibly top 5 all-time in terms of completion percentage for a rookie QB.

The evidence we have especially on Tebow is not supporting of your case and in fact reinforces the pre-draft scouting reports.

I'm not claiming that Tebow will be successful, but I think it's ridiculous to assert that he won't be successful because of a scouting report. And it's even more ridiculous to assert that Newton will not be successful because of a scouting report that's clearly wrong.

Newton = Daunte Culpepper.

 

[Spanky24]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

#3

He is a mobile quarterback with good quickness, agility, and awareness. He has a solid throwing motion, and he displayed fantastic accuracy. He has the athletic ability to be a threat running the ball as well as throwing it. He is also a very intelligent quarterback who reads defenses well and makes good, quick decisions. He has a tremendous work ethic on the field as well as in the film room, and he displays good leadership qualities. He has good, quick footwork, sound mechanics, and a high release point.

#2 Philip Rivers? I remember hearing he would struggle because of his side-arm throwing motion.

 

[Two Deep]

My twenty years of Quarterback scouting.

you clowns probably have no idea who Joel Buschbaum was.... do you?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

My twenty years of Quarterback scouting.

you clowns probably have no idea who Joel Buschbaum was.... do you?

Are you his twin? Or do you just look like him?

 

[ShaHBucks]

When I see something in the 1st 3 Q's then I will consider changing my tune. When a team is winning on late game heroics, it doesn't bode well for them. Also,once there is enough film, it can go south fast. See Josh Freeman. See Bradford. Right now, he is terrible. Block out the 4th Q vs prevent Ds (tebowners need not try) watch the play, and ask yourself if you want this guy leading your team.

...

I think this is a pretty important question and I wanted to take some time to answer this. I agree - I'm not happy with the level of play thru Q1-3 and I want to see 60 solid minutes of football before I'm ready to go all in...I think Elway wants to see the same thing too. I will also agree that the way the Broncos have been winning is not sustainable year after year.

There are a number of factors that lead the Broncos to have success almost exclusively a the end of a game. I don't think one can empirically say exactly what it is, just identify possible causes and that's what I'm aiming to do here.

[*]I once had a coach say that the way you beat a better opponent is to keep it close and win in the end. keep it conservative, keep the score low, don't make any mistakes, and then go all out at the very end. I think that is exactly what Fox is doing. I also happen to think that is how Reeves played Elway back in the day; it was good enough to take the Broncos to 3 SB's, so IMO it's a proven strategy.

[*]Fox has claimed that the Broncos get out to a slow start because teams by now have film on the Broncos, but the Broncos don't have film on how other teams will defend them. Essentially, when you are running a unique, one-off offense, you are at a disadvantage, everyone knows what you want to do but you don't know what they want to do. It may take a half or more to figure this all out.

[*]I think that the way you beat Tebow and option-based offenses is actually simple - play disciplined, assignment football. If players stay home, read-option will not work, that much is simple. Further, if DB's stay on their man instead of peeking into the backfield, guys won't be wide open. If coaches stick to what has been working, it will continue to work. However, late in games, I say discipline breaks down. Players are tired - more likely to play off of instinct instead of maintaining responsibilities. Coaches start doing silly things like abandoning 8 in the box defenses in favor of deep cover-2.

[*]Broncos run a power offense, which will eventually tire a defense down (ref: Hairy Snowman's post). This is compounded by playing home games at 5280' elevation. Further, when Broncos go no-huddle, defenses don't get a chance to rotate out.

[*]A change in Broncos personnel groupings and strategy when the game is on the line. It seems that thru Q1-3, Broncos run lots of 2TE, 2 RB sets - power football. Tebow only throws on third and long - not really a good passing situation, no? The Fox offense is run, run, throw if you have to...it's really pretty predictable, and may not be suited exactly to Tebow's (or any QB's, for that matter) strengths. It may be a good way to win football games, but not pad stats. There are folks out there right now crying that Elway/Fox continue to run this offense deliberately and consciously to sabotage Tebows development, and harp on Tebow's early game throwing situations incessantly. (go to orangemane.com if you want to see proof...couple of gator homers are ruining thread after thread complaining about this). On the other hand, in Q4, Denver goes to a spread - 3WR, 1 RB, one other WR or TE, and ask Tebow to win out of the shotgun. This is the personnel grouping that Tebow thrived with in Florida and really does play to his strengths. Take a fish out of water, he flops. Put him back in, and watch him swim! This article has better detail of what I'm trying to say.

[*]Some folks thrive under pressure, some folks fold. Tebow may be the most clutch player in pressure we have seen come along since Joe Montana. I'm talking about specifically Tebow's ability to elevate his own play in the face of adversity.

[*]As much tactics as there is in football, it is an emotional sport too. People feed off of each other. People inspire each other. I truly believe that Tebow makes his teammates play harder, Elway basically said as much earlier today. When guys are in the huddle and see Tebow, they believe. If you believe, you can do. Defenses feed off of this as well. They know that if they can give Tebow a chance, he will come thru.

[*]Conversely, opponents feel the opposite. By now they know that the Tebow comeback is almost inevitable, and play scared. When you play scared, bad things happen.

[*]Dumb luck.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm not saying the answer to your question is all of the above, or none of the above, or any combination thereof. These are just some possible reasons for the late-game dramatics in attempt to rationalize what appears to be irrational.

Very The only thing I would add.

Speaking strictly about the Chicago game, the WR play really was awful for the first 3 quarters. I'm not saying this has been the case all season--but it was quite obviously the case this past Sunday. And given that the running game was completely ineffective, it's near impossible to sustain drives and put up a gaudy statline with little to no help from your WR's.

This is easy to say, for every drop pass there's a thrown pass into the nosebleeds, so they're even. If anyone has proven to feed off of Tebow's energy it's Thomas, he stepped up late in the MIA, MIN, and CHI miracles.

I'm referring to one game--please show me where Tebow threw the ball into the nosebleeds against Chicago. And regardless, I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said anyway. The bottom line is there were at least 5 dropped passes, including a long dropped TD.

The Tomas thing came to me mid-sentence, had nothing to do with nothing. He sailed about 2-3 that was nowhere close to Thomas, If I watch the game again I'll let you know, but every qb in the league deals with dropped passes(see: Manning, Eli).

The Broncos had 6 dropped passes that game. There are 13 guys in the NFL with at least 7 drops meaning they're averaging at least 1/2 drops each game. The next 13 guys are averaging less than that.Let's assume the Broncos have receivers who drop a lot more than any other team. We'll say the top 2 WRs, the top TE and the top RB all average 1/2 drops per game. That's an average of 2 drops each game. This would be if the top 4 targets drop more than just about anyone. So yes, if people are talking about Tebow's completion percentage for a particular 3 quarter period of a game that had an obscene amount of drops then it should matter.

If it helps Victor Cruz has 7 drops and Jake Ballard has 5 those are the leaders on the Giants. I can't find a complete list but I think it's fair to assume that the Giants have averaged 3 or less drops/game. Cruz + Ballard have caught more than 1/3 of Eli's completions and account for 12 drops. Figure everyone else has the same drop rate and that would put the Giants around 35 or so drops in 13 games. There are clearly guys with lower drop rates so it should be a lower amount than the 2 2/3 drops/game that I'm extrapolating anyway. I'd guess with guys like Nicks (more than 20% of Eli's completions with less than 5 drops) the Giants probably average around 2 drops/game.

Either way when people are saying Tebow was 3/16 in the first 3 quarters to put his performance down and the receivers had 6 drops in those 3 quarters (possibly 5 not sure if the 6th came in the 4th). Then it is an important consideration.

I'm not sure what any of this actually means. I'm a fan of Tebow, I'm just stating for every drop there was a uncatchable pass out of bounds or one on one opportunities he passed up in the first 3 quarters. Chi was his best game as a passer this year though it could have been better w/o the drops, particularly the deep ball on the money to Thomas, but that's football.Most of Eli's ints last year were not him making stupid mistakes, close to half of them were his receivers fault. This year drops cost the sf game, whatever game cruz let it bounce off his chest, and almost the dal game with Manninham. Thomas came threw in the clutch, Excuse me for giving any other Bronco some credit. It's not fair to compare Tebow with anyone because of the coverges he see's. He played a great game but I won't make out to be more than what it was by manipulating statistics.

 

[Two Deep]

My twenty years of Quarterback scouting.

you clowns probably have no idea who Joel Buschbaum was.... do you?

Are you his twin? Or do you just look like him?

Nope he was half the man as me...actually about a 1/3.

 

[Chaka]

My twenty years of Quarterback scouting.

you clowns probably have no idea who Joel Buschbaum was.... do you?

Are you his twin? Or do you just look like him?

Nope he was half the man as me...actually about a 1/3.

Are you claiming to be some kind of football savant?

 

[CalBear]

So you're convinced based on scouting reports, and you don't have any evidence based on their actual NFL play? Do you think there's no QB in history that came out of college with a scouting report that said "poor footwork" or "inconsistent accuracy" who later was successful? Cam Newton is about to finish in the top 10, possibly top 5 all-time in terms of completion percentage for a rookie QB.

The evidence we have especially on Tebow is not supporting of your case and in fact reinforces the pre-draft scouting reports.

I'm not claiming that Tebow will be successful, but I think it's ridiculous to assert that he won't be successful because of a scouting report. And it's even more ridiculous to assert that Newton will not be successful because of a scouting report that's clearly wrong.

Newton = Daunte Culpepper.

Ah, so you mean he'll go on to put up one of the best QB seasons of all time, finish #1 or #2 in fantasy terms four times, and end up in the top 20 in completion percentage all-time? Yeah, sounds like failure to me.

 

[CalBear]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

2010 - Andy Dalton, anytime - Drew Brees?#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers?#3

He is a mobile quarterback with good quickness, agility, and awareness. He has a solid throwing motion, and he displayed fantastic accuracy. He has the athletic ability to be a threat running the ball as well as throwing it. He is also a very intelligent quarterback who reads defenses well and makes good, quick decisions. He has a tremendous work ethic on the field as well as in the film room, and he displays good leadership qualities. He has good, quick footwork, sound mechanics, and a high release point.

Blaine Gabbert, Dennis Dixon?

Sorry, try again. (All are for QBs who entered the league a few years ago).

 

[CalBear]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

#3

He is a mobile quarterback with good quickness, agility, and awareness. He has a solid throwing motion, and he displayed fantastic accuracy. He has the athletic ability to be a threat running the ball as well as throwing it. He is also a very intelligent quarterback who reads defenses well and makes good, quick decisions. He has a tremendous work ethic on the field as well as in the film room, and he displays good leadership qualities. He has good, quick footwork, sound mechanics, and a high release point.

#2 Philip Rivers? I remember hearing he would struggle because of his side-arm throwing motion.

Good guess, but wrong. But you're "close."

 

[Jersey35]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

Rodgers?ETA: No idea, but I'll take a stab at #3 as Alex Smith, since it's a positive review (since we need a positive report on a QB that hasn't quite panned out as well as the others and Smith is the perfect counterpoint to Rodgers). If Rodgers is #1, I say Smith is #3.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I have gone on record in this thread and other threads expressing that Tebow is a guy that has a long ways to go and needs to continue to improve in the pocket to be a long term QB in this league.

I have to say this though you have to admire his will to win as it is as good as anyones in the league. He is such a fierce competitor and a wonderful team player. I don't know how anyone after seeing what he has done this year could seriously count him out at this stage. He may end up failing but I would venture to guess that his determination and will to be a great player would put his odds better of being successful than failing.

I love this story about him and his will to win.

 

[CalBear]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

Rodgers?ETA: No idea, but I'll take a stab at #3 as Alex Smith, since it's a positive review (since we need a positive report on a QB that hasn't quite panned out as well as the others and Smith is the perfect counterpoint to Rodgers). If Rodgers is #1, I say Smith is #3.

Correct on both counts, very good!

 

[MDSkinner]

Here's a game: Match the QBs to the scouting reports!#1

Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

#3

He is a mobile quarterback with good quickness, agility, and awareness. He has a solid throwing motion, and he displayed fantastic accuracy. He has the athletic ability to be a threat running the ball as well as throwing it. He is also a very intelligent quarterback who reads defenses well and makes good, quick decisions. He has a tremendous work ethic on the field as well as in the film room, and he displays good leadership qualities. He has good, quick footwork, sound mechanics, and a high release point.

#2 Philip Rivers? I remember hearing he would struggle because of his side-arm throwing motion.

Good guess, but wrong. But you're "close."

#2 - Brees? He absolutely played in the spread at Purdue. The rest of it seems silly now, but that is the point of the post so it kind of makes sense if it is true.

 

[CalBear]

#2

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws

#2 - Brees? He absolutely played in the spread at Purdue. The rest of it seems silly now, but that is the point of the post so it kind of makes sense if it is true.

Ding ding ding!Just pointing out how inexact the art is of assessing QB prospects based on college performance.