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timdraft #4: Movie Category Draft (3 Viewers)

Films about Nazis

25 pts- Europa Europa- Doug B

24 pts- Downfall- Joffer

23 pts- Schindler's List- Bobby Layne

22 pts- Mephisto- Tremendous Upside

21 pts- The Tin Drum- timschochet

20 pts- Judgment at Nuremberg- Aerial Assault

19 pts- Marathon Man- Tiannamen Tank

18 pts- American History X- Acer FC

17 pts- Inglorious Basterds- Time Kibitzer

16 pts- Notorious- Karma Police

15 pts- The Pianist- Nick Vermiel

14 pts- The Counterfeiters- hooter311

13 pts- Triumph of the Will- Andy Dufresne

12 pts- Romper Stomper- John Madden's Lunchbox

11 pts- The Shop on Main Street- krista4

10 pts- Raiders of the Lost Ark- Kumerica

9 pts- The Great Escape- rikishiboy

8 pts- The Dirty Dozen- Mister CIA

7 pts- Triumph of the Spirit- higgins

6 pts- The Boys From Brazil- Dr. Octopus

5 pts- Apt Pupil- Tish155

4 pts- Valkyrie- Usual21

3 pts- Hangmen Also Die!- Mrs. Rannous

2 pts- Iron Sky- Val Rannous

1 pt- Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS- jwb

 
Dr. Octopus said:
timschochet said:
19 pts- Marathon Man

What's so brilliant about this film is that Dustin Hoffman needs an ultimate bad guy to make his life right- to avenge his father's suicide (at the hands of McCarthyism), and his brother's untimely demise, and he is confronted with a true monster, portrayed by Lawrence Olivier in perhaps his finest performance. The dentist scenes have become cliche, but they remain among the most frightening in movie history. William Devane also helps make this movie among the very best of it's kind. But in the end it's Hoffman, who gets to gun down all the baddies, who makes this film.
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How are Nazi's any more central to this story than they were in Raiders, Dirty Dozen and Escape? I love this movie and the "White Angel" character but don't see how it wasn't lumped in with those other three per the standard applied to them. I haven't see in it a real long time so maybe I'm off base, but wasn't Olivier the only Nazi and not really in the movie until the end?
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In the other 3 films, the Nazis are only peripheral. In Marathon Man, though Olivier shows up only rarely in the first half of the film, his presence and storyline are central to the movie.

 
My top 10 in classroom is essentially done. The bottom is giving me some trouble. Should have it by early to midweek.

 
Nice job on your rankings, Tim. Great stuff, great category despite the disturbing subject matter.

What a dead zone in here. I guess I should start posting my rankings or something.

 
I am starting my long take research, but I don't have specific scene for Halloween and Rope. Also it looks like the link for The Mirror had 3 scenes? Not 100% what I am supposed to be judging there.

 
yes, I will start my rankings this week (car chase and shocking scene) - hope to have one done by week's end

 
KarmaPolice said:
I am starting my long take research, but I don't have specific scene for Halloween and Rope. Also it looks like the link for The Mirror had 3 scenes? Not 100% what I am supposed to be judging there.
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Pretty sure that was an Andy D pick to finish out Mister CIA's team.

 
Hope other judges are having as tough of a time. I THINK I finally have the picks grouped into tiers, but there are so many good picks it is hard to rank these.

 
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Ok, let's go with 18:35-28:23 for the Rope take. That's right. Almost 10 minutes.

This is a tough call because by today's standards, these takes are fairly pedestrian. But remember it was 1948 and this whole movie is made up of just 10 long takes. It was a Hitchcock experiment and the first film by a major director to employ long takes.* There was no steady cam so special sets had to be made to accommodate the cameras and actors. Hitchcock used the long takes and real time approach to add to the tension of the murder mystery and the hidden dead body in the middle of the room.

* Probably not true.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
timschochet said:
Films about Nazis

25 pts- Europa Europa- Doug B
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9th Nazi film drafted, at 7.05. Nice call, Doug B!
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I thought it had a good shot to place high -- Europa Europa is one of the more thought-provoking films about Nazism that I've ever been exposed to. I've not seen a lot aimed at the Hitler Youth movement, which is a remarkable backdrop for the conflicts Solly/Jup has to face.

I was interested to see Tim describe it as a black comedy. I can see where he's coming from, and there are many humorous scenes. But a lot of times, the humor is in service of a luck-out scene in which Jup avoids great peril ... the situations he's in, over and over again, are profoundly serious. It's very easy to feel Jup's fear of getting exposed, and that makes the funny parts more whew-that-was-close exhalations of relief than rolling-on-the-floor gut-busters.

 
I could write any of my categories right now, but I'm waiting for other people to go so that I'm not the target of whining in an otherwise dead thread. :brush:

 
timschochet said:
Films about Nazis

25 pts- Europa Europa- Doug B

24 pts- Downfall- Joffer

23 pts- Schindler's List- Bobby Layne

22 pts- Mephisto- Tremendous Upside

21 pts- The Tin Drum- timschochet

20 pts- Judgment at Nuremberg- Aerial Assault

19 pts- Marathon Man- Tiannamen Tank

18 pts- American History X- Acer FC

17 pts- Inglorious Basterds- Time Kibitzer

16 pts- Notorious- Karma Police

15 pts- The Pianist- Nick Vermiel

14 pts- The Counterfeiters- hooter311

13 pts- Triumph of the Will- Andy Dufresne

12 pts- Romper Stomper- John Madden's Lunchbox

11 pts- The Shop on Main Street- krista4

10 pts- Raiders of the Lost Ark- Kumerica

9 pts- The Great Escape- rikishiboy

8 pts- The Dirty Dozen- Mister CIA

7 pts- Triumph of the Spirit- higgins

6 pts- The Boys From Brazil- Dr. Octopus

5 pts- Apt Pupil- Tish155

4 pts- Valkyrie- Usual21

3 pts- Hangmen Also Die!- Mrs. Rannous

2 pts- Iron Sky- Val Rannous

1 pt- Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS- jwb
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Raiders and The Dirty Dozen are ridiculously low.

 
Mr. Mojo said:
timschochet said:
Films about Nazis

25 pts- Europa Europa- Doug B

24 pts- Downfall- Joffer

23 pts- Schindler's List- Bobby Layne

22 pts- Mephisto- Tremendous Upside

21 pts- The Tin Drum- timschochet

20 pts- Judgment at Nuremberg- Aerial Assault

19 pts- Marathon Man- Tiannamen Tank

18 pts- American History X- Acer FC

17 pts- Inglorious Basterds- Time Kibitzer

16 pts- Notorious- Karma Police

15 pts- The Pianist- Nick Vermiel

14 pts- The Counterfeiters- hooter311

13 pts- Triumph of the Will- Andy Dufresne

12 pts- Romper Stomper- John Madden's Lunchbox

11 pts- The Shop on Main Street- krista4

10 pts- Raiders of the Lost Ark- Kumerica

9 pts- The Great Escape- rikishiboy

8 pts- The Dirty Dozen- Mister CIA

7 pts- Triumph of the Spirit- higgins

6 pts- The Boys From Brazil- Dr. Octopus

5 pts- Apt Pupil- Tish155

4 pts- Valkyrie- Usual21

3 pts- Hangmen Also Die!- Mrs. Rannous

2 pts- Iron Sky- Val Rannous

1 pt- Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS- jwb
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Raiders and The Dirty Dozen are ridiculously low.
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Not at all. It wasn't "best movie with a Nazi in it".

 
For good or bad, my rankings are done. Is there anyone that was not in the draft that would like to rank my pick. I would rather not do it myself.

I just need to add write ups and Ill post it tonight or tomorrow

 
jwb said:
Mr. Mojo said:
timschochet said:
Films about Nazis 25 pts- Europa Europa- Doug B24 pts- Downfall- Joffer23 pts- Schindler's List- Bobby Layne22 pts- Mephisto- Tremendous Upside21 pts- The Tin Drum- timschochet20 pts- Judgment at Nuremberg- Aerial Assault19 pts- Marathon Man- Tiannamen Tank18 pts- American History X- Acer FC17 pts- Inglorious Basterds- Time Kibitzer16 pts- Notorious- Karma Police15 pts- The Pianist- Nick Vermiel14 pts- The Counterfeiters- hooter31113 pts- Triumph of the Will- Andy Dufresne12 pts- Romper Stomper- John Madden's Lunchbox11 pts- The Shop on Main Street- krista410 pts- Raiders of the Lost Ark- Kumerica9 pts- The Great Escape- rikishiboy8 pts- The Dirty Dozen- Mister CIA7 pts- Triumph of the Spirit- higgins6 pts- The Boys From Brazil- Dr. Octopus5 pts- Apt Pupil- Tish1554 pts- Valkyrie- Usual213 pts- Hangmen Also Die!- Mrs. Rannous2 pts- Iron Sky- Val Rannous1 pt- Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS- jwb
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Raiders and The Dirty Dozen are ridiculously low.
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Not at all. It wasn't "best movie with a Nazi in it".
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Jones was sought out to find the Arc because Hitler was actively looking for it and the US wanted to find it before the Nazis did, Belloq was funded by the Nazis, used Nazi henchman, Nazi interrogators, Nazi money, Nazi muscle and Nazi equipment and transportatio (air, sea and land), had the big unveiling at a Nazi campfire gathering while being filmed by Nazi propagandists. Other than Belloq, who was only in charge (except when Nazis showed him who was really in charge) because he was an archaeologist. The entire antagonist side of the movie were Nazis trying to further the power of Nazi Germany in the war that the Nazis started, the threat of which spurred the entire premise of the film. . But other than that, it was just a movie that only coincidentally had some non essential nazis in it.
 
Just to get this going, I will start slowly posting some tiers. I think I am still going to tweak a couple of the rankings, but I am fairly confident on the tiers. With my limited knowledge, I watched each of these multiple times and tried thinking about # of actors, moving pieces, lighting, camera movement, impact of the scene in general on me, etc, etc. Of course I stupidly lost some of the notes I took to help with the rankings so I apologize for the write ups not being as in depth as they should be. With each category, I tried to rank them in a few different categories and add the points up, and this is what I lost but the end result is the same. For me, it doesn't help giving the movies a raw score - ie 7/10. MOST of the movies and scenes we have to judge are top level movies, so most are going to be high scoring. So don't feel bad - all of these are great choices and this was not easy:

1 pt -


Still one of my top 3 horror movies, and an iconic sequence. Here you see a POV of Micheal and his first kill. Follows him as he watches his sister with her boyfriend. They go upstairs for what amounts to about 20secs of sex as Mike gets his knife out and heads upstairs. As somebody stated, with some research, evidently there is a sneaky cut, plus the use of the mask, shadows, etc.. makes the shot less complicated. Can't really knock them too much with the whole $300K budget they had.

5pts - Strange Days

Kathryn Bigelow gives us a nice long shaky cam intro before the shaky cam was cool and invaded damn near every movie that is put out now. With this pick we are definitely seeing a step up of moving pieces and complication, but I felt that the handheld camera makes it a tad easier to focus on things that don't require the level of choreography the others above it do. As we are running with the criminals we get shots of the back of their head, quick shots looking up and down at inanimate objects etc..

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
I have no idea what you were watching, but from 1:58 to 4:36 there are no cuts- quick or otherwise.

KarmaPolice said:
3 pts - Lady Be Good

Great dance sequence here. The beginning of the sequence has the more difficult section, but there were a couple of quick cuts. Hard to rank this one any higher.
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Was not clear as usual - If you haven't encountered my judging before, I have trouble translating thoughts into words.

I watched the link, and assumed the part you stated above was what I was looking at. I had already searched through the thread once to redo all the links people provided, but wasn't going to go through again to look at if there were certain times I was to look at. I was confident I could figure that out if needed.

All I was commenting on was the dancing/presentation. Watching the whole link, I just thought the better part of the scene was the beginning where the cuts are, but the uninterrupted shot was lacking. Unfortunately, the older movies might suffer a little bit in this category because as technology increased the long shots were able to get more and more intricate. Especially after watching stuff back to back and over and over, the scenes in this tier didn't score as well as stuff where cameras were whirling around on multiple axis, dozens of actors and extensive choreography was involved, etc..

 
OK, rankings and write ups are done. Since no non drafters wanted to slot my pick, are there any drafters who wouldnt mind doing it. Once that is done, I can post the rankings and then everyone can yell at me.

 
AcerFC said:
OK, rankings and write ups are done. Since no non drafters wanted to slot my pick, are there any drafters who wouldnt mind doing it. Once that is done, I can post the rankings and then everyone can yell at me.
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I'll slot your pick. I'll be in a meeting until 2:30, but I'll do it after that.

 
OK, so here we go with the classroom rankings thanks to Mean Joe slotting in my pick. Before I start, here is the criteria I listed before the first pick was taken

30% Does it take place in a classroom. I dont think ball field or teachers rooms count for this category. Lets keep it to strictly classroom20% Is it a relaistic classroom scene. As much as I love stripper scenes in classrooms, lets face it, best classroom scene needs to be a little on the realistic side. I will judge this based on my 14 year teaching experience50% How good of a scene is it. This may be a bit subjective but that is what will set my list aside from the other hundred jabronies who made their own listsThis is open for discussion until the first classroom scene comes off the board. Once it does, lock it up

Of course, this could all change by the time I sit down to judge

I have been in disussion with a few people who gave me examples of learning outside of a classroom. Since "classrooms" are not the only place learning can happen, I say its OK

However, the category is still classroom so lets keep it to lecture halls, common areas, other placesin school etc.
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I tried to keep this criteria in mind as I was rating these picks. Most of them were excellent which made it a lot harder. There were some tier 1 picks though that stood out. I want to remind everyone that this is not personal and I dont even know who picked what with a few exceptions. All of the scenes took place in a classroom or an acceptable area by criteria. So that left realism and my feelings on how good the scene was. I did work hard and I know there will be people upset. Just know, I didnt run through it in 5 minutes. I spent some time on it.

 
1 yellow smiley face- Meaning of Life

While this scene is funny, I did make my criteria to be realistic. I dont care what country you are in, this is not happening in class (I didnt look this up and am only making a blind assumption). I tried to move it up a bit because I did like it but I could not justify any ranking higher.

 
2 yellow smiley faces- Red Dawn

The teacher seems boring and most of the kids were unengaged. Until the 5th Russian Battalion lands outside their classroom. Didnt seem too realistic and the scene wasnt that great. Bored kids who start running away when shots are fired

 
3 yellow smiley faces- Never Let me Go

This whole thing seemed odd from the second it started. I was asking myself why would a teacher be telling students they would never become anything. Add to that the fact that the kids and their reactions kind of freaked me out and I had zero clue what this was all about. After researching a little more and seeing what the person who chose it wrote, it made more sense. Unfortunately, I still couldnt really move it up any more so it lands here.

 
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4 yellow smiley faces- North Country

This scene made me uncomfortable. I was trying to find out if this was a true story because I could not really believe this was realistic. It appears that it was true and that the boyfriend really ran away while his girlfriend was being raped. Who does that? I hope that guy has the worst life ever. Not worse than the raper, but pretty bad. This was not really what I was looking for in terms of classroom scene and while the scene was well acted and haunting, I had to leave it in the bottom tier

 
5 yellow smiley faces- Billy Madison

I dont care how much money a school district is receiving, there is not one that would allow an adult male to go back to school starting in Kindergarten. Billy needs to understand that kids dont have a large attention span and the fact that the kid even spent an hour looking for the dog is like 2 adult weeks. Although, posters would have been a nice touch

 
AcerFC said:
1 yellow smiley face- Meaning of Life

While this scene is funny, I did make my criteria to be realistic. I dont care what country you are in, this is not happening in class (I didnt look this up and am only making a blind assumption). I tried to move it up a bit because I did like it but I could not justify any ranking higher.
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I guess I missed where the criteria was spelled out. :shrug:

 
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