It’s voter pandering that’s why they’re popular, let’s raise taxes on 1% because the other 99% will approve or don’t care. Therefore it’s mindless and lazy...
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timschochet’s political thoughts and commentary- back in here until the election is done (1 Viewer)
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sho nuff
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
In a sense both you and @GoBirds are correct about this- like every other Democratic politician in my lifetime, they are promising that only the very wealthy will be taxed when in fact everyone will be taxed. It’s not exactly a lie, but it is a misrepresentation, easily seen through.
And there is laziness involved, but not on their part; it’s on the part of the voters, who will never select politicians that say “hey we need to raise your taxes”.
And the fact is we do.
rockaction
Footballguy
Maybe because younger women find Trump repugnant in policy and demeanor while older women see in Trump the charlatans that blocked their professional careers because of rank sexism and levied them with personal disappointments from sheer thoughtlessness.
I dunno. Or maybe women are smarter.
Why the gap between college degrees and high school?
eta* I only make the above generalization about older women because of watching my mother and my aunts act and speak about it. They hated what they had to endure professionally in the sixties and seventies and eighties, and they haven't forgotten its root causes or manifestations.
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timschochet
Footballguy
In addition, laying off government workers doesn’t solve anything. What happens to those workers? Seems almost..what’s the word I’m looking for...mindless!
In further addition, Republicans always offer cutting spending as an alternative to raising taxes and yet they never do. They complained about spending all throughout Obama’s presidency. But in 2017 and 2018 they had the Presidency, the House and the Senate and they could have cut all the spending they wanted to. They could have balanced the budget the way they always vow to do. They didn’t do jack.
timschochet
Footballguy
I was going to raise this too but it’s even more problematic.
A number of explanations rise to the top of my mind, but I fear even the most benign ones would get me into serious trouble.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I started and stopped about the general state of the Republican Party in a different thread. It's weird. The moderating, while well-meaning, has really thrown the baby out with the bathwater in terms of not being able to generalize anything or even, at times, to make inquiries of import from these generalizations.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I get what you're saying. You pander to the mass that doesn't have to pay those taxes and you win that way.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
This is one of my biggest concerns with American politics and a large part of why I can't see myself voting Republican anytime soon.
Neither party is going to shrink the size of the government, and at some point we have to think like adults and decide we're going to pay for it. But voters on both sides want things and they don't want to pay for them. Like we are with a lot of things.
I don't particularly like the Democratic party, but we have to at least pretend we're going to try to pay for all this stuff. Not just keep cutting taxes and pretend it's all going to be okay.
But I worry a lot about this country when no politician can really even bring up the idea of paying for stuff.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Ahh cool, more comments about the poster.
Nope...just don’t find the argument that his policy was mindless to be compelling whatsoever.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Make sure to test the definition of the word "is" as well.Gonna try this line out on my wife one day and see how that goes
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Actually I think there's been a lot of work done researching the impact of various tax strategies, including this one. You may not agree with the conclusions, but that doesn't make them mindless or lazy.
I also note you don't seem to have criticism for Republican tax and spending policy, wwhich has driven up government spending as much, if not more than Democrat tax and spending policy, with greater increases in Federal debt. The Republican approach is pandering as well, just to a different component of the overall constituency. If the Democrats are mindless and lazy with their tax and spending policies, the Republicans have been even worse. The Democrats are the better option if that's truly your concern.
timschochet
Footballguy
You seem to love to harp on this sort of stuff. Hypocrisy, double standards, broken promises, outright lying. It’s always bored the hell out of me, because it’s not my goal, in political discussions, to score points against the other side. We need to raise taxes. I’ve already explained the reasons why; if you disagree, offer a rebuttal. If the only way to raise taxes is to mislead the public because they’re too selfish and lazy to agree to it, then mislead them. I’m OK with that.
timschochet
Footballguy
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Women are smarter and tougher than men in every way. With advances in reproduction science they won't need men at all except a few for sexual purposes and I would like to volunteer to be one of those men.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Then stop using words like mislead and misrepresent. Just freaking call it what it is. Lying.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Former FBI agents and Social Security personnel. We obviously don't need either of those groups of federal employees.
timschochet
Footballguy
No because I honestly am not sure how deliberate it is. For me there is a distinction between the two. Not a big one but it’s there.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Biden has said taxes won't go up for anyone making under 400K and also said he's going to roll back the Trump tax cuts. One of those statements is a lie. How much more deliberate do you need?
timschochet
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
He wants to roll back the Trump tax cuts for those making over 400K (or something similar to that).
I’m a fiscal conservative so not happy about either party right now which is why I’m voting for jo jo. For the most part in terms of spending, the Republicans are the lesser of 2 evils. Take the pending stimulus package as an example of which party likes to spend more.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Clearly as evidenced by your several posts regarding it. But spare us all the mental gymnastics when it's your guy that lies it's a misrepresentation when it's not your guy it's a lie.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
If you're a fiscal conservative, it seems like you might want to be more unhappy with the Repubican party, or at least Republican Presidents.
massraider
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Again what’s your goal here? Why are you so interested in cutting into me, or Joe Biden, or both? I don’t agree with you that it’s mental gymnastics but even if I did, what possible difference would it make? The important questions here are should we raise taxes and if so, how should we raise them? Biden’s honesty, or mine, is unimportant compared to that. What needs to be done?
There’s going to be a lot more of what you call “mental gymnastics” in this thread because I like going deep into issues and making small but important distinctions. You can be spared from at any time by simply not reading any more of the thread; nobody’s forcing you to do so.
timschochet
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
My goal was quite clear. To clear up the inconsistencies in your words. Words have meanings. Changing a lie to misrepresentation isn't going deep into an issue.
And I'll post in whatever thread I damn well want. Thanks
The Commish
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Amazing line from pro-Trump opinion writer Kevin McCullough this morning (Townhall.com):
“Other than the media polls, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Trump is going to lose this election.”
“Other than the media polls, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Trump is going to lose this election.”
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
I dont consider trump a traditional republican. His economic plan revolves around deficit spending to stimulate economy and stock market. I believe he thinks if economy working he has a good chance at reelection. Prior to trump, republicans traditionally run up deficit lessor favor less spending the democrats.
massraider
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
But the GOP congress has spent as well...as did previous GOP Presidents.
Republicans haven’t been fiscally conservative in a while.
timschochet
Footballguy
I believe your last sentence is demonstrably false as well.
For example, under George W Bush we had defense spending, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Medicare Plan B, and TARP. All of that increased the budget and deficit by huge margins, far more than we did under Bill Clinton.
If you want to make the argument that each new President increases the amount of debt more than the last one, and it’s a depressing cycle regardless of Party, then I think you might have some merit to that. But you can’t argue that Democrats spend more than Republicans do with any credibility. You just can’t. You gotta go all the way back to Calvin Coolidge for that to be even generally true.
I will even give you credit if you want to argue that you agree with typical conservative rhetoric on this issue (at least pre-Trump, and most likely post Trump as well) vs liberal rhetoric- that’s fine too. But not in practice. In practice the only difference on this issue between the two parties is where are the checks to be sent?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
If "spending" is your main concern you are out of luck with either D or R. You just might just be a libertarian.
The Commish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Would you care to be more specific? Or could you tell me the last conservative President/Congress that showed a consistent decline in yearly deficit?
ETA: I ask these as I TOO am a fiscal conservative....I watch it like a hawk, so I'd love to know what I missed.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
To be fair the irresponsible tax cuts usually happen at the beginning of their presidency and after a year or two the economy starts to recover and the annual deficits start to reduce. So it is most of them. They just never come close to not running up the debt. And all too often hand off a disaster of an economy (among other messes) that we barely dig out of before the next round pf tax cuts.
