timschochet's thread- Mods, please move this thread to the Politics Subforum, thank you (2 Viewers)

[facook]

Columbo is OK. Never much of a Peter Falk fan- I loved that Wim Wenders movie though.

Tim, I'd just like to give you kudos for this thread. I'm a nobody on this board but I find reading your opinions and the dialogues in this thread 1000X more interesting than in the other threads on the board. I'm realizing that my opinion of you should have been directed more at the folks who trolled you.

Please keep this up. It's made the board far better as a whole imo.

You're not a nobody; glad to see you around.

Thanks K4. I still lurk and post in a few threads. For instance, once every ~300 pages or so in GMTAN. Enjoying your Seattle adventures.

 

[timschochet]

That doesn't matter. They have reasonable doubt, which they didn't before. That's all that is supposed to matter in the case of a jury.

That is not why I recommended the movie. The more relevant parts are the group dynamics and the consensus building.

I see. Well I'm glad you finally answered the question.Tell me, do you think a discussion board is a good place for consensus building?

It's as good a place for concensus building as a separate thread for yourself.

Hmm. Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.Also, do you have a problem with this thread?

Yes.

I suspected as much. Care to explain what your problem is exactly?

 

[krista4]

That doesn't matter. They have reasonable doubt, which they didn't before. That's all that is supposed to matter in the case of a jury.

That is not why I recommended the movie. The more relevant parts are the group dynamics and the consensus building.

I see. Well I'm glad you finally answered the question.Tell me, do you think a discussion board is a good place for consensus building?

It's as good a place for concensus building as a separate thread for yourself.

Hmm. Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.Also, do you have a problem with this thread?

Yes.

I suspected as much. Care to explain what your problem is exactly?

Please stop taking the bait?

 

[timschochet]

Krista, I'm not a huge Wim Wenders guy. I watched several of his movies back in college- I was dating a girl who was a huge fan, and she took me to some and invited me to take a class. I just can't get in to the slow pace of his films. I suspect the fault is mine. Wings of Desire was an exception for me, mostly because the cinematography was so spectacular.

I'm also having a hard time thinking about American remakes. I love The Magnificent Seven- one of my favorite westerns- but even that pales compared to the original. The Vanishing was far worse, the Birdcage didn't come close to La Cage- my mind's really a blank on this. I heard that The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo was pretty good (the American version) but I haven't seen it.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

That doesn't matter. They have reasonable doubt, which they didn't before. That's all that is supposed to matter in the case of a jury.

That is not why I recommended the movie. The more relevant parts are the group dynamics and the consensus building.

I see. Well I'm glad you finally answered the question.Tell me, do you think a discussion board is a good place for consensus building?

It's as good a place for concensus building as a separate thread for yourself.

Hmm. Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.Also, do you have a problem with this thread?

Yes.

I suspected as much. Care to explain what your problem is exactly?

The same kind of Jewish isolationism happened during the Holocaust.

 

[timschochet]

That doesn't matter. They have reasonable doubt, which they didn't before. That's all that is supposed to matter in the case of a jury.

That is not why I recommended the movie. The more relevant parts are the group dynamics and the consensus building.

I see. Well I'm glad you finally answered the question.Tell me, do you think a discussion board is a good place for consensus building?

It's as good a place for concensus building as a separate thread for yourself.

Hmm. Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.Also, do you have a problem with this thread?

Yes.

I suspected as much. Care to explain what your problem is exactly?

Please stop taking the bait?

I know. I shouldn't. I just think it's lol funny that someone should accuse me of spoiling my own thread. I mean what's next?

 

[krista4]

Krista, I'm not a huge Wim Wenders guy. I watched several of his movies back in college- I was dating a girl who was a huge fan, and she took me to some and invited me to take a class. I just can't get in to the slow pace of his films. I suspect the fault is mine. Wings of Desire was an exception for me, mostly because the cinematography was so spectacular.

I'm also having a hard time thinking about American remakes. I love The Magnificent Seven- one of my favorite westerns- but even that pales compared to the original. The Vanishing was far worse, the Birdcage didn't come close to La Cage- my mind's really a blank on this. I heard that The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo was pretty good (the American version) but I haven't seen it.

Did you see Buena Vista Social Club (by Wim Wenders)? I think you'd love it.

 

[timschochet]

Wings of Desire is up there with 8 1/2 and The Seventh Seal for me: these films are visually remarkable to watch, so they are exceptions to the rule- my rule, that movies and novels have to be plot driven for me to enjoy them.

 

[timschochet]

Krista, I'm not a huge Wim Wenders guy. I watched several of his movies back in college- I was dating a girl who was a huge fan, and she took me to some and invited me to take a class. I just can't get in to the slow pace of his films. I suspect the fault is mine. Wings of Desire was an exception for me, mostly because the cinematography was so spectacular.

I'm also having a hard time thinking about American remakes. I love The Magnificent Seven- one of my favorite westerns- but even that pales compared to the original. The Vanishing was far worse, the Birdcage didn't come close to La Cage- my mind's really a blank on this. I heard that The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo was pretty good (the American version) but I haven't seen it.

Did you see Buena Vista Social Club (by Wim Wenders)? I think you'd love it.

No. I will try to catch that.

 

[krista4]

Wings of Desire is up there with 8 1/2 and The Seventh Seal for me: these films are visually remarkable to watch, so they are exceptions to the rule- my rule, that movies and novels have to be plot driven for me to enjoy them.

Two of my top 10 favorite movies, plus another (The Seventh Seal) that I love. But I definitely don't need plot to drive mine. Glad you love those, though.

 

[timschochet]

Wings of Desire is up there with 8 1/2 and The Seventh Seal for me: these films are visually remarkable to watch, so they are exceptions to the rule- my rule, that movies and novels have to be plot driven for me to enjoy them.

Two of my top 10 favorite movies, plus another (The Seventh Seal) that I love. But I definitely don't need plot to drive mine. Glad you love those, though.

Care to list your top 10 list?

 

[krista4]

Krista, I'm not a huge Wim Wenders guy. I watched several of his movies back in college- I was dating a girl who was a huge fan, and she took me to some and invited me to take a class. I just can't get in to the slow pace of his films. I suspect the fault is mine. Wings of Desire was an exception for me, mostly because the cinematography was so spectacular.

I'm also having a hard time thinking about American remakes. I love The Magnificent Seven- one of my favorite westerns- but even that pales compared to the original. The Vanishing was far worse, the Birdcage didn't come close to La Cage- my mind's really a blank on this. I heard that The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo was pretty good (the American version) but I haven't seen it.

Did you see Buena Vista Social Club (by Wim Wenders)? I think you'd love it.

No. I will try to catch that.

It's a documentary, and not a big plot other than reuniting Cuban musicians, but I do think you'd enjoy it a lot.

 

[krista4]

Wings of Desire is up there with 8 1/2 and The Seventh Seal for me: these films are visually remarkable to watch, so they are exceptions to the rule- my rule, that movies and novels have to be plot driven for me to enjoy them.

Two of my top 10 favorite movies, plus another (The Seventh Seal) that I love. But I definitely don't need plot to drive mine. Glad you love those, though.

Care to list your top 10 list?

My top 10 is probably 25. Even if I were actually to limit to 10, though, I feel certain both of those would be on it.

 

[timschochet]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

 

[timschochet]

More (second 10)

1. On the Waterfront

2. The Godfather Part 2

3. Hannah and Her Sisters

4. Manhattan

5. Searching for Bobby Fischer

6. Broadcast News

7. Jaws

8. My Favorite Year

9. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

10. Letters From Iwo Jima

 

[krista4]

Wings of Desire

8-1/2

Au Hasard Balthasar

(those three are on the list for sure)

Movies that jump to mind immediately when I think of favorites:

The Sweet Hereafter

The Illusionist (the French animated one not the Ed Norton thing)

Kings and Queen

Yi-Yi

Boyhood (this is so recent and I've only seen it once that I hesitate...but it was that good)

Godfather and Godfather II

Hoop Dreams

There are a billion others, and I think I'd need a separate top 20 for documentaries.

 

[krista4]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

More (second 10)

1. On the Waterfront

2. The Godfather Part 2

3. Hannah and Her Sisters

4. Manhattan

5. Searching for Bobby Fischer

6. Broadcast News

7. Jaws

8. My Favorite Year

9. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

10. Letters From Iwo Jima

Schindler's List is one of the best movies I've seen, but I can't put it on a favorites list. Damn, I'd be hard-pressed not to put Searching for Bobby Fischer on there; that is a fantastic choice. Go ahead and put that on my 25 top-10 movies.

I also love seeing some underappreciated movies like Lost in America and Broadcast News on there.

 

[krista4]

Your lists are great in that they include some comedies, too. In terms of comedies, I have to say that Raising Arizona, Blazing Saddles, and some early Steve Martin movies like The Jerk and The Man with Two Brains would top my list. Also earlier, less subtle Woody Allen like Love and Death and Take the Money and Run.

 

[krista4]

Wings of Desire

8-1/2

Au Hasard Balthasar

(those three are on the list for sure)

Movies that jump to mind immediately when I think of favorites:

The Sweet Hereafter

The Illusionist (the French animated one not the Ed Norton thing)

Kings and Queen

Yi-Yi

Boyhood (this is so recent and I've only seen it once that I hesitate...but it was that good)

Godfather and Godfather II

Hoop Dreams

There are a billion others, and I think I'd need a separate top 20 for documentaries.

The Barbarian Invasions. Not cool that I forgot that one.

 

[ScottNorwood]

No Arnold movies?

 

[Gawain]

Chess and foreign films? Thread's getting too high-brow. I demand venereal disease drafts and I stalkers.

 

[timschochet]

I read The Sweet Hereafter I think (Russell Banks- about a school bus crash?) but I didn't see the movie. I didn't know there was a movie.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

More (second 10)

1. On the Waterfront

2. The Godfather Part 2

3. Hannah and Her Sisters

4. Manhattan

5. Searching for Bobby Fischer

6. Broadcast News

7. Jaws

8. My Favorite Year

9. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

10. Letters From Iwo Jima

Schindler's List is one of the best movies I've seen, but I can't put it on a favorites list. Damn, I'd be hard-pressed not to put Searching for Bobby Fischer on there; that is a fantastic choice. Go ahead and put that on my 25 top-10 movies.

I also love seeing some underappreciated movies like Lost in America and Broadcast News on there.

I love this movie. My son and I have watched it like 10 times together.

 

[timschochet]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

More (second 10)

1. On the Waterfront

2. The Godfather Part 2

3. Hannah and Her Sisters

4. Manhattan

5. Searching for Bobby Fischer

6. Broadcast News

7. Jaws

8. My Favorite Year

9. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

10. Letters From Iwo Jima

Schindler's List is one of the best movies I've seen, but I can't put it on a favorites list. Damn, I'd be hard-pressed not to put Searching for Bobby Fischer on there; that is a fantastic choice. Go ahead and put that on my 25 top-10 movies.

I also love seeing some underappreciated movies like Lost in America and Broadcast News on there.

Pretty much love most things with Albert Brooks in them.

 

[krista4]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

More (second 10)

1. On the Waterfront

2. The Godfather Part 2

3. Hannah and Her Sisters

4. Manhattan

5. Searching for Bobby Fischer

6. Broadcast News

7. Jaws

8. My Favorite Year

9. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

10. Letters From Iwo Jima

Schindler's List is one of the best movies I've seen, but I can't put it on a favorites list. Damn, I'd be hard-pressed not to put Searching for Bobby Fischer on there; that is a fantastic choice. Go ahead and put that on my 25 top-10 movies.

I also love seeing some underappreciated movies like Lost in America and Broadcast News on there.

I love this movie. My son and I have watched it like 10 times together.

It's funny how this movie has never made an official "greatest movie" list but there are so many people who love it. I can imagine if you have a kid what a great movie it is to watch together.

 

[krista4]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

More (second 10)

1. On the Waterfront

2. The Godfather Part 2

3. Hannah and Her Sisters

4. Manhattan

5. Searching for Bobby Fischer

6. Broadcast News

7. Jaws

8. My Favorite Year

9. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

10. Letters From Iwo Jima

Schindler's List is one of the best movies I've seen, but I can't put it on a favorites list. Damn, I'd be hard-pressed not to put Searching for Bobby Fischer on there; that is a fantastic choice. Go ahead and put that on my 25 top-10 movies.

I also love seeing some underappreciated movies like Lost in America and Broadcast News on there.

Pretty much love most things with Albert Brooks in them.

No Defending Your Life, though?

 

[timschochet]

I love Defending Your Life. One of the greatest conceits ever for a film. Just didn't make my top 20. But there's a lot of films I love that didnt.

 

[krista4]

I love Defending Your Life. One of the greatest conceits ever for a film. Just didn't make my top 20. But there's a lot of films I love that didnt.

IMO Broadcast News is markedly better. I'd have a hard time choosing between DYL and Lost in America--both great films.

 

[Drunken Poster]

That's why I always laughed at the end of "Boyz In the Hood" (an otherwise brilliant movie, BTW) when Lawrence Fishburne complains that all the liquor stores and gun stores are in black areas, and he implies that it's some sort of conspiracy. It's no conspiracy; the liquor stores and gun stores are there because they make money.

Only because of centuries of oppression, racist.

 

[Drunken Poster]

I'll list mine.

My top 10 favorite movies of all time. No particular order here:

1. Boogie Nights

2. Inherit the Wind

3. Schindler's List

4. Europa Europa

5. The Godfather

6. 8 1/2

7. Aliens

8. The Last Emperor

9. Lost In America

10. Goodfellas

I'm probably forgetting something...

My top ten includes five of those. Outstanding list.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yup on board with that list too, but I'd say Boogie Nights is an outlier. Fun, good movie but not an all time great lister IMO. I'm guessing that's a place & time thing for Tim perhaps?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Big fan of this thread.

I missed out on the whole barrage in the beginning, but i would suggest that at some point, with some posters, you just have to ignore them. Be it via the ignore function or just the old-fashioned way. Not only do you save yourself a lot of time, it's immensely satisfying.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

How many movies have you walked out of, and which ones were they.

 

[Plorfu]

How many movies have you walked out of, and which ones were they.

I'll field this with something that's only sort of related, mainly to fill in the wee hours. A long time ago, I got a bunch of dvd's via Columbia House. Afterwards, they send you one every month, and you send it back if you don't want it. Well, being a drunken, lazy slob at the time, I would forget to do so pretty often. One of the movies I forgot to send back was Bringing Down the House, with Queen Latifah and Steve Martin. So, bored one night, I figured I may as well watch it.

I expected awful, and it delivered! It's hard to believe they could produce something even dumber than the dumb premise indicated, but they managed. I easily would have walked out on this piece of crap, after I figured out how I ended up there to begin with.

 

[jon_mx]

How many movies have you walked out of, and which ones were they.

I'll field this with something that's only sort of related, mainly to fill in the wee hours. A long time ago, I got a bunch of dvd's via Columbia House. Afterwards, they send you one every month, and you send it back if you don't want it. Well, being a drunken, lazy slob at the time, I would forget to do so pretty often. One of the movies I forgot to send back was Bringing Down the House, with Queen Latifah and Steve Martin. So, bored one night, I figured I may as well watch it.

I expected awful, and it delivered! It's hard to believe they could produce something even dumber than the dumb premise indicated, but they managed. I easily would have walked out on this piece of crap, after I figured out how I ended up there to begin with.

So did you walk out of your own house or not?

 

[parasaurolophus]

How many movies have you walked out of, and which ones were they.

I will field this one as well. I have walked out of only one movie. High Fidelity. Had nothing to do with the quality of the movie. Had everything to do with the quality of toilet paper that the theatre bathroom had and the number of times I was having to use it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

It's funny how this movie has never made an official "greatest movie" list but there are so many people who love it. I can imagine if you have a kid what a great movie it is to watch together.

I am sure many fathers have watched this movie and of course immediately followed with a game of chess that ends in a draw. Got very dusty when his grandpa told me months later that he had played a game of chess with my son and was letting him win. My son took his queen and extended his little hand to offer the draw. His grandpa had never seen that movie so I can only imagine how awesome that had to have felt.

 

[msommer]

How many movies have you walked out of, and which ones were they.

One. Bad Boy Bubby. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106341/ Truly horriblemovie

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'll give you an example of a racist attitude I may have held that doesn't, at least IMO, define me as a racist:

For years I have been a leasing agent and site selector for a well known pizza restaurant, national chain, for Los Angeles County. This pizzeria is priced slightly higher and a little better quality than other pizza chains. Years ago I put a location in Inglewood and another in North Long Beach on the borders of Compton. The sites were as visible as all the others yet weekly sales weren't good, and this lasted for several years.

I formed a conclusion which I then resisted telling corporate because it sounded racist. Nonetheless I i kept thinking it, and that was this: blacks won't pay more for higher quality pizza. Now of course I am not talking about all blacks. But the decision had to be made a few years back: should more locations be opened in black areas like Compton and South Central? Or should we concentrate on doubling up in whiter areas? I recommended the latter.

Was this a racist decision on my part?

I don't understand why you think this is a racist belief. Lots of demographic groups have different-than-average demand profiles -- people who work in marketing are keenly aware of this. It's not racist to notice those differences. If anything, it would be ethnocentric to deny that they exist.

(I have no idea whether the bolded part is empirically true or not. All I know is that if you have good reason for thinking that it's true, and sounds like you do, there's nothing remotely racist about it.)

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I'll give you an example of a racist attitude I may have held that doesn't, at least IMO, define me as a racist:

For years I have been a leasing agent and site selector for a well known pizza restaurant, national chain, for Los Angeles County. This pizzeria is priced slightly higher and a little better quality than other pizza chains. Years ago I put a location in Inglewood and another in North Long Beach on the borders of Compton. The sites were as visible as all the others yet weekly sales weren't good, and this lasted for several years.

I formed a conclusion which I then resisted telling corporate because it sounded racist. Nonetheless I i kept thinking it, and that was this: blacks won't pay more for higher quality pizza. Now of course I am not talking about all blacks. But the decision had to be made a few years back: should more locations be opened in black areas like Compton and South Central? Or should we concentrate on doubling up in whiter areas? I recommended the latter.

Was this a racist decision on my part?

I don't understand why you think this is a racist belief. Lots of demographic groups have different-than-average demand profiles -- people who work in marketing are keenly aware of this. It's not racist to notice those differences. If anything, it would be ethnocentric to deny that they exist.

(I have no idea whether the bolded part is empirically true or not. All I know is that if you have good reason for thinking that it's true, and sounds like you do, there's nothing remotely racist about it.)

I think it depends on why he thinks black people are less apt to buy higher quality pizza.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'll give you an example of a racist attitude I may have held that doesn't, at least IMO, define me as a racist:

For years I have been a leasing agent and site selector for a well known pizza restaurant, national chain, for Los Angeles County. This pizzeria is priced slightly higher and a little better quality than other pizza chains. Years ago I put a location in Inglewood and another in North Long Beach on the borders of Compton. The sites were as visible as all the others yet weekly sales weren't good, and this lasted for several years.

I formed a conclusion which I then resisted telling corporate because it sounded racist. Nonetheless I i kept thinking it, and that was this: blacks won't pay more for higher quality pizza. Now of course I am not talking about all blacks. But the decision had to be made a few years back: should more locations be opened in black areas like Compton and South Central? Or should we concentrate on doubling up in whiter areas? I recommended the latter.

Was this a racist decision on my part?

I don't understand why you think this is a racist belief. Lots of demographic groups have different-than-average demand profiles -- people who work in marketing are keenly aware of this. It's not racist to notice those differences. If anything, it would be ethnocentric to deny that they exist.

(I have no idea whether the bolded part is empirically true or not. All I know is that if you have good reason for thinking that it's true, and sounds like you do, there's nothing remotely racist about it.)

I think it depends on why he thinks black people are less apt to buy higher quality pizza.

I agree with you on that one. I'm assuming that tim formed this opinion based on his real estate experience.

 

[jon_mx]

I'll give you an example of a racist attitude I may have held that doesn't, at least IMO, define me as a racist:

For years I have been a leasing agent and site selector for a well known pizza restaurant, national chain, for Los Angeles County. This pizzeria is priced slightly higher and a little better quality than other pizza chains. Years ago I put a location in Inglewood and another in North Long Beach on the borders of Compton. The sites were as visible as all the others yet weekly sales weren't good, and this lasted for several years.

I formed a conclusion which I then resisted telling corporate because it sounded racist. Nonetheless I i kept thinking it, and that was this: blacks won't pay more for higher quality pizza. Now of course I am not talking about all blacks. But the decision had to be made a few years back: should more locations be opened in black areas like Compton and South Central? Or should we concentrate on doubling up in whiter areas? I recommended the latter.

Was this a racist decision on my part?

I don't understand why you think this is a racist belief. Lots of demographic groups have different-than-average demand profiles -- people who work in marketing are keenly aware of this. It's not racist to notice those differences. If anything, it would be ethnocentric to deny that they exist.

(I have no idea whether the bolded part is empirically true or not. All I know is that if you have good reason for thinking that it's true, and sounds like you do, there's nothing remotely racist about it.)

But how is that different than what Em was doing? He was looking at demographic groups and saying these groups have different average height, strengths, and intelligence. He wasn't saying that a person in a group couldn't be taller or stronger or more intelligent than someone in the other group, just that on average these groups have difference. I doubt there is a method which people agree on that is considered a good measure of intelligence, but I think he was basing it on college performance. So what makes Em's statement racist, but using demographic differences to make decisions not racist?

 

[timschochet]

I can't recall walking out of a movie except once when my children were ill. If it's bad or boring I often doze.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I'll give you an example of a racist attitude I may have held that doesn't, at least IMO, define me as a racist:

For years I have been a leasing agent and site selector for a well known pizza restaurant, national chain, for Los Angeles County. This pizzeria is priced slightly higher and a little better quality than other pizza chains. Years ago I put a location in Inglewood and another in North Long Beach on the borders of Compton. The sites were as visible as all the others yet weekly sales weren't good, and this lasted for several years.

I formed a conclusion which I then resisted telling corporate because it sounded racist. Nonetheless I i kept thinking it, and that was this: blacks won't pay more for higher quality pizza. Now of course I am not talking about all blacks. But the decision had to be made a few years back: should more locations be opened in black areas like Compton and South Central? Or should we concentrate on doubling up in whiter areas? I recommended the latter.

Was this a racist decision on my part?

I don't understand why you think this is a racist belief. Lots of demographic groups have different-than-average demand profiles -- people who work in marketing are keenly aware of this. It's not racist to notice those differences. If anything, it would be ethnocentric to deny that they exist.

(I have no idea whether the bolded part is empirically true or not. All I know is that if you have good reason for thinking that it's true, and sounds like you do, there's nothing remotely racist about it.)

I think it depends on why he thinks black people are less apt to buy higher quality pizza.

I agree with you on that one. I'm assuming that tim formed this opinion based on his real estate experience.

New to tim's posts? Applying that type of logic to tim seems like a leap.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'll give you an example of a racist attitude I may have held that doesn't, at least IMO, define me as a racist:

For years I have been a leasing agent and site selector for a well known pizza restaurant, national chain, for Los Angeles County. This pizzeria is priced slightly higher and a little better quality than other pizza chains. Years ago I put a location in Inglewood and another in North Long Beach on the borders of Compton. The sites were as visible as all the others yet weekly sales weren't good, and this lasted for several years.

I formed a conclusion which I then resisted telling corporate because it sounded racist. Nonetheless I i kept thinking it, and that was this: blacks won't pay more for higher quality pizza. Now of course I am not talking about all blacks. But the decision had to be made a few years back: should more locations be opened in black areas like Compton and South Central? Or should we concentrate on doubling up in whiter areas? I recommended the latter.

Was this a racist decision on my part?

I don't understand why you think this is a racist belief. Lots of demographic groups have different-than-average demand profiles -- people who work in marketing are keenly aware of this. It's not racist to notice those differences. If anything, it would be ethnocentric to deny that they exist.

(I have no idea whether the bolded part is empirically true or not. All I know is that if you have good reason for thinking that it's true, and sounds like you do, there's nothing remotely racist about it.)

But how is that different than what Em was doing? He was looking at demographic groups and saying these groups have different average height, strengths, and intelligence. He wasn't saying that a person in a group couldn't be taller or stronger or more intelligent than someone in the other group, just that on average these groups have difference. I doubt there is a method which people agree on that is considered a good measure of intelligence, but I think he was basing it on college performance. So what makes Em's statement racist, but using demographic differences to make decisions not racist?

I haven't followed the stuff involving Eminence at all. Basically I was just skimming the last couple of pages and felt like responding to that one particular tim post. Sorry if it's a drive-by.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

This draft is really slow and boring.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

On an unrelated note, I was surprised by how much I strongly disliked 12 Angry Men. I thought I would like that one, but by the end of the film I was almost completely convinced that Henry Fonda was responsible for letting a guilty man go free.

 

[timschochet]

Something happened to me yesterday which touches upon our discussion earlier. I was at the supermarket, and after I paid for my groceries, I stupidly left my wallet on the counter and turned to leave. The guy behind me tapped my shoulder and handed me my wallet. As I thanked him, he said, "Good for you I'm a Christian or I might have kept it." I smiled and left.

Now later I thought about this some more. The guy was being friendly and I'm sure he meant what he said. But the implication was that if he did not have a set of rules to follow, as taught to him by Christianity, he would be amoral or immoral. His sense of right and wrong would be absent, or if it wasn't absent, he would choose wrong deliberately. This idea seems absurd to me, and I'm astonished that so many people seem to believe it.

It also explains why atheists are so shunned and distrusted. Because We atheists are much more likely to do awful things since we have no rule book.

 

[bostonfred]

Logical fallacy. He never implied that other people weren't ethical. He just implied that Christians are ethical.

 

[timschochet]

Logical fallacy. He never implied that other people weren't ethical. He just implied that Christians are ethical.

No, he implied that if he was not a Christian he wouldn't be ethical. And I do believe the implication was that anyone who is not a Chriatian is less likely to be ethical.