timschochet's thread- Mods, please move this thread to the Politics Subforum, thank you (3 Viewers)

[Yankee23Fan]

Seka?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Rosie O'Donnell?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Mrs. Andrew Carnegie?

 

[Don Quixote]

It still baffles me how either Susan B. Anthony or Elizabeth Cady Stanton did not make the list.

 

[timschochet]

It still baffles me how either Susan B. Anthony or Elizabeth Cady Stanton did not make the list.

A lot of very worthy people did not make the list.

 

[Don Quixote]

It still baffles me how either Susan B. Anthony or Elizabeth Cady Stanton did not make the list.

A lot of very worthy people did not make the list.

I understand that part, but still lots of people on the list that both would be a lot more worthy over. The trial of Susan B. Anthony, and Stanton's Declaration of Sentiments and Solitude of Self are watershed moments in American history. Definitely more so than BJK beating Bobby Riggs, or whatever Helen Keller did, for example.

 

[larch]

Next up: the highest ranking female on this list.

Bruce Jenner?

 

[RCon]

Duh, Hillary Clinton.

 

[timschochet]

I may have made an error here.

I excluded Alexander Graham Bell from my list because I could not find any evidence that he ever became an American citizen. He was born in Scotland, spent much of his life in Canada, then appeared in America in order to gain the American patent on the telephone. Now I have a certain German-Jewish immigrant scientist who is going to be ranked very high on this list despite the fact that his greatest achievements took place before he ever came to America; that guy is ranked highly in part as representative of all of those who have come here over the centuries seeking political refuge; he is the greatest of them. Bell is the opposite in some ways- his greatest achievement (the telephone) was in America, but he himself did not choose to be American, as best as I could learn.

However, just yesterday I came across a few sites which described Bell as an American. I still can't determine when he became one, or how long he was one. If Bell is to be considered American, then he HAS to be on this list, somewhere in my top 25, as the telephone is obviously that important an invention. But of course the list is pretty full up. Here are my options:

1. I can ignore Bell. I'm still unsure of his status, so we'll just leave him out.

2. I can renumber this list to "101 greatest Americans" and insert Bell as I think appropriate.

3. I can remove Billie Jean King, renumber everybody below where I think Bell should be, and stick him in the list.

Thoughts?

 

[timschochet]

OK, I need to revisit my very complicated $500 wager vs. tommyboy. As some of you may recall, the wager was that President Obama would not be forced to veto a repeal of Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act) during the remainder of his Presidency.) Because there was some confusion about what repealing Obamacare meant, tommyboy and I agreed that it would have to be either a full repeal or a repeal that took out the "heart" of Obamacare- such as the individual mandate.

Now it looked for months like I would win this bet simply because the Congress couldn't get it's act together- so much so that a few months ago tommyboy graciously simply offered to pay me. I declined, because we never know what's going to happen.

Cut to this week- John Boehner has promised that, in his last act as Speaker, he is going to bring about a reconciliation bill that will force a repeal of Obamacare to the President's desk. Now when I learned that, I notified tommyboy by PM that I may have to pay him soon, after all. But just yesterday, Senator Mike Lee complained that what Boehner's proposing would only "cut away" at Obamacare, not repeal it, and that this was unacceptable. Boehner responded that no, what he was proposing would "gut Obamacare". Neither side offered any details and I can't find them. So we're left to wonder: is this going to happen? How much damage will it do to Obamacare? Am I gonna need some impartial judges here to review this bill and decide who exactly wins our bet?

Keeping a close watch on this...

 

[RCon]

1. I can ignore Bell. I'm still unsure of his status, so we'll just leave him out.

2. I can renumber this list to "101 greatest Americans" and insert Bell as I think appropriate.

3. I can remove Billie Jean King, renumber everybody below where I think Bell should be, and stick him in the list.

Options 2 and 3 seem functionally equivalent to me.

 

[AAABatteries]

1. I can ignore Bell. I'm still unsure of his status, so we'll just leave him out.

2. I can renumber this list to "101 greatest Americans" and insert Bell as I think appropriate.

3. I can remove Billie Jean King, renumber everybody below where I think Bell should be, and stick him in the list.

Options 2 and 3 seem functionally equivalent to me.

Not 6 minute abs, it's 7 minute abs. Nobody gets a workout in 6 minutes.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

OK, I need to revisit my very complicated $500 wager vs. tommyboy. As some of you may recall, the wager was that President Obama would not be forced to veto a repeal of Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act) during the remainder of his Presidency.) Because there was some confusion about what repealing Obamacare meant, tommyboy and I agreed that it would have to be either a full repeal or a repeal that took out the "heart" of Obamacare- such as the individual mandate.

Now it looked for months like I would win this bet simply because the Congress couldn't get it's act together- so much so that a few months ago tommyboy graciously simply offered to pay me. I declined, because we never know what's going to happen.

Cut to this week- John Boehner has promised that, in his last act as Speaker, he is going to bring about a reconciliation bill that will force a repeal of Obamacare to the President's desk. Now when I learned that, I notified tommyboy by PM that I may have to pay him soon, after all. But just yesterday, Senator Mike Lee complained that what Boehner's proposing would only "cut away" at Obamacare, not repeal it, and that this was unacceptable. Boehner responded that no, what he was proposing would "gut Obamacare". Neither side offered any details and I can't find them. So we're left to wonder: is this going to happen? How much damage will it do to Obamacare? Am I gonna need some impartial judges here to review this bill and decide who exactly wins our bet?

Keeping a close watch on this...

I don't think you need to worry about this, but here are the ACA items being attacked-

​

Sec. 301. Repeal of individual mandate.

Sec. 302. Repeal of employer mandate.

Sec. 303. Repeal of medical device excise tax.

Sec. 304. Repeal of the tax on employee health insurance premiums and health plan benefits and related reporting requirements.

Sec. 311. Repeal of Independent Payment Advisory Board.

 

[timschochet]

Based on that my opinion is if the individual mandate gets repealed and Obama is forced to veto, I lose the bet. But not the rest of it.

 

[timschochet]

I've decided to ignore Alexander Graham Bell and continue with the rankings as before.

 

[timschochet]

35. Susan B Anthony

Men, their rights, and nothing more; women, their rights, and nothing less

Susan B. Anthony is the greatest woman in American history, period. She was a Quaker, an abolitionist, the first feminist, and of course the leader of the woman's suffrage movement in the United States. She represents the independence and freedom of women in our society.

Anthony would not be possible without the ideas of the Enlightenment, which also led to the abolition of slavery. It was the Enlightenment that separates western Christian societies from other societies around the world, such as Muslim, that do not recognize the rights of women. Christianity IMO is not intrinsically morally superior to Islam, but, to put it simply, we had the Enlightenment and they didn't. Thus abolition, civil rights, women's rights.

Hollywood is about to premier a film about the suffragette movement in England, featuring the Pankhursts, starring Meryl Streep. Their story is cinematically more interesting than Susan B. Anthony's, because the Pankhursts and their followers did all kinds of crazy stuff like jumping in front of racehorses, burning down buildings, etc. (If truth be known the British suffragettes were pretty much terrorists, willing to bomb and assassinate politicians who did not support votes for women. It will be interesting to see how exactly the film portrays this.) Compared to that, Susan B. Anthony's story is relatively staid and conservative, though she did go on trial in her hometown of Rochester, New York for daring to vote.

I have been criticized for not having Elizabeth Cady Stanton on this list. Her achievements are similar to Anthony but she is not quite at the level of fame. It is Anthony who has gotten top billing over the years, getting on a coin, etc. Stanton deserves great acclimation in her own right and would surely make any list of the top 200 greatest Americans, as would other worthy women such as Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Ayn Rand, Gloria Steinem, Dolly Madison, and Hillary Clinton. In many ways Hillary is the symbolic descendent of the world that Susan B. Anthony envisaged. Should Hillary be elected President, she would also deserve to be on this list, and pretty high up. As it stands now, she, like Stanton, just miss out.

Up next: The single most powerful man in American history who was not a President.

 

[larch]

I may have made an error here.

I excluded Alexander Graham Bell from my list because I could not find any evidence that he ever became an American citizen. He was born in Scotland, spent much of his life in Canada, then appeared in America in order to gain the American patent on the telephone. Now I have a certain German-Jewish immigrant scientist who is going to be ranked very high on this list despite the fact that his greatest achievements took place before he ever came to America; that guy is ranked highly in part as representative of all of those who have come here over the centuries seeking political refuge; he is the greatest of them. Bell is the opposite in some ways- his greatest achievement (the telephone) was in America, but he himself did not choose to be American, as best as I could learn.

However, just yesterday I came across a few sites which described Bell as an American. I still can't determine when he became one, or how long he was one. If Bell is to be considered American, then he HAS to be on this list, somewhere in my top 25, as the telephone is obviously that important an invention. But of course the list is pretty full up. Here are my options:

1. I can ignore Bell. I'm still unsure of his status, so we'll just leave him out.

2. I can renumber this list to "101 greatest Americans" and insert Bell as I think appropriate.

3. I can remove Billie Jean King, renumber everybody below where I think Bell should be, and stick him in the list.

Thoughts?

You have drug this countdown out so damn long, no one gives a crap anymore.

 

[timschochet]

I may have made an error here.

I excluded Alexander Graham Bell from my list because I could not find any evidence that he ever became an American citizen. He was born in Scotland, spent much of his life in Canada, then appeared in America in order to gain the American patent on the telephone. Now I have a certain German-Jewish immigrant scientist who is going to be ranked very high on this list despite the fact that his greatest achievements took place before he ever came to America; that guy is ranked highly in part as representative of all of those who have come here over the centuries seeking political refuge; he is the greatest of them. Bell is the opposite in some ways- his greatest achievement (the telephone) was in America, but he himself did not choose to be American, as best as I could learn.

However, just yesterday I came across a few sites which described Bell as an American. I still can't determine when he became one, or how long he was one. If Bell is to be considered American, then he HAS to be on this list, somewhere in my top 25, as the telephone is obviously that important an invention. But of course the list is pretty full up. Here are my options:

1. I can ignore Bell. I'm still unsure of his status, so we'll just leave him out.

2. I can renumber this list to "101 greatest Americans" and insert Bell as I think appropriate.

3. I can remove Billie Jean King, renumber everybody below where I think Bell should be, and stick him in the list.

Thoughts?

You have drug this countdown out so damn long, no one gives a crap anymore.

You've made an awful lot of posts in this thread for somebody who doesn't give a crap.

 

[larch]

I may have made an error here.

I excluded Alexander Graham Bell from my list because I could not find any evidence that he ever became an American citizen. He was born in Scotland, spent much of his life in Canada, then appeared in America in order to gain the American patent on the telephone. Now I have a certain German-Jewish immigrant scientist who is going to be ranked very high on this list despite the fact that his greatest achievements took place before he ever came to America; that guy is ranked highly in part as representative of all of those who have come here over the centuries seeking political refuge; he is the greatest of them. Bell is the opposite in some ways- his greatest achievement (the telephone) was in America, but he himself did not choose to be American, as best as I could learn.

However, just yesterday I came across a few sites which described Bell as an American. I still can't determine when he became one, or how long he was one. If Bell is to be considered American, then he HAS to be on this list, somewhere in my top 25, as the telephone is obviously that important an invention. But of course the list is pretty full up. Here are my options:

1. I can ignore Bell. I'm still unsure of his status, so we'll just leave him out.

2. I can renumber this list to "101 greatest Americans" and insert Bell as I think appropriate.

3. I can remove Billie Jean King, renumber everybody below where I think Bell should be, and stick him in the list.

Thoughts?

You have drug this countdown out so damn long, no one gives a crap anymore.

You've made an awful lot of posts in this thread for somebody who doesn't give a crap.

You new here?

 

[timschochet]

Larch is right about one thing- the rankings have taken a long time. The main reason is that the write-ups, short as they are, do take a lot of thought and are a little exhausting. I will try to speed this up a little.

 

[timschochet]

34. William Randolph Hearst

(Asked what would make a good gift): Money is appropriate, and one size fits all.

You were expecting "Rosebud" as the quote, right?

In the days before the advent of radio and television, newspapers shaped American opinion. And for about a 50 year period from the last decade of the 19th century to the start of the Second World War, no person was more dominant a figure in newspapers than William Randolph Hearst (though it must be said that for the first part of those 50 years Joe Pulitzer was a close rival; though because his influence didn't last as long he doesn't quite make it into the top 100 list.)

Hearst, along with Pulitzer, was the creator of what was known as "Yellow Journalism", which basically means promoting whatever news stories are likely to sell the most copies. This meant a departure from what the more erudite in our society would call "serious news" and a focus instead on "personal interest" stories. If you are one of those who wishes that the news spent more time discussing the economic crisis in Greece or the rise of world terrorism rather than a white girl missing in Aruba or Bill Cosby's treatment of women, don't blame CNN or Fox News: the fault lies with William Randolph Hearst. If you despise People Magazine or the National Enquirer or Entertainment Tonight, the guy to angry at is the man who lived in San Simeon in a fascinating castle (which, if you ever drive through central California, is absolutely worth seeing.)

Hearst is a mixed character in my book. As I wrote in my hint, he is quite simply the most powerful person we've ever had that was not a United States President. I noted earlier in my discussions of Henry Luce, Walter Cronkite, and William Paley the amount of power they had on our society, and there is one guy upcoming who was our greatest journalist, and also Horace Greeley prior to the Civil War who had tremendous influence. But Greeley's papers did not reach the amount of people Hearst did. And Luce, Cronkite, Paley and the guy soon to be mentioned all lived in a society in which the news was already spread out to several sources and not centralized. When Hearst reigned, the news WAS centralized and dominated by only a tiny number of individuals of which he was the outstanding figure. Hearst almost alone sent this country into war with Spain. Hearst almost alone disapproved of the Treaty of Versailles and convinced the Republicans to vote down membership in the League of Nations. Hearst in 1932 swung his support behind FDR and so helped Roosevelt win the Democratic nomination (and thus the Presidency.) And it was Hearst who pushed for the internment of Japanese Americans on the West Coast at the outbreak of World War II- though Roosevelt signed the order and Earl Warren carried it out, it never would have happened without the Hearst papers.

Many famous fictional characters are based on William Randolph Hearst: as I noted in the opening, Charles Foster Kane. Also Gail Wynand of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead. Perhaps neither of these are as intriguing as the real guy.

Up next: the man from Hibbing, Minnesota

 

[timschochet]

33. Bob Dylan

I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

David Bowie put it best: Bob Dylan has a "voice like sand and glue." Dylan was not as huge a star as Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson or Madonna- those four are the biggest musical superstars in American history. Most musical experts would not consider him to be as great a composer of music as George Gershwin, who made this list, or Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, Stephen Foster, Aaron Copeland, John Williams, or Rodgers and Hammerstein, none of which who made this list. And Dylan was not one of the greatest pioneer of a large American genre of music, as was Louis Armstrong, who made this list, or Jimmie Rodgers, Hank Williams, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Johnny Cash, Billie Holiday, or the guy featured in my avatar, none of whom made this list.

Yet Dylan is not only on this list, he is higher ranked than any other musician or composer. That is because he combines all of the factors that I have considered for the greatest musical performer: he was, especially during the 1960s and 70s, a huge star, not at the level of the 4 I mentioned, but just below. He is the most influential rock and roll performer of all time, bar none, and the one who has had more songs covered than any other. He is just below the composers I mentioned, and just below the pioneers I mentioned. Not to mention he was considered the "voice of his generation" and played an extremely significant role, against his will, as a leader of the youth and protest movements of the 1960s, both of which had a profound effect on American society. Add all of these things together and he tops the list.

I realize this pick may be somewhat controversial as there are a lot of people who really can't stand Bob Dylan. I happen to love him (not every album certainly- guy has probably produced more awful music than a lot of other rockers combined- but the great stuff) but that's neither here nor there. What's important is that his greatness really can't be argued. In terms of rock music I would rank the Beatles and maybe the Stones higher. That's about it.

Next up: the innovator of arguably the most important change to post World War II America...

 

[larch]

Bob Dylan

 

[dparker713]

33. Bob Dylan

This is the worst ranking yet.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I once spent a very nice afternoon, and evening in my Palapa in Palenque with Bob Dylan.

 

[timschochet]

33. Bob Dylan

This is the worst ranking yet.

The times they are a changing.

 

[timschochet]

32. William Levitt

William Levitt may be one of the more unknown people on this list (so much so, in fact, that I was unable to find a single quote by him.) But Levitt had arguably as great an impact on American society as anyone ranked, because he was the creator of modern suburbia.

In the days before World War II, almost all homes in this nation were custom built. For those who were unable to do it themselves, this meant hiring an architect and a contractor. The resulting cost limited the construction of new homes to the very wealthy. Levitt was a builder who in World War II used pre-fab methods of construction for the Army in the Pacific. Back in the states he conceived of the notion that the same technology could be used to create assembly line homes for much cheaper than custom made, thus lowering prices so that the middle classes could afford it. Purchasing land in Hempstead, Long Island, he created the first Levittown. It was a major success. Soon more Levittowns were built all across the eastern United States, and following that Levitt's imitators built new communities all over America.

The result was the moden suburb that we know today, with all that it entails: urban sprawl, the abandonment and plight of our inner cities, the polarization of "safe neighborhoods" and "unsafe neighborhoods", etc. Levitt's original techniques would seem primitive by today's standards, but all modern day builders copy the basic idea- very very few homes today are ever custom built.

William Levitt himself made a fortune, lost a fortune, made another fortune, and lost that one as well. Kicked out of his original company, he was never able to reestablish his earlier success and died deeply in debt. His legacy, however, is that he changed America.

Next up: The greatest of the abolitionists...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

32. William Levitt

William Levitt may be one of the more unknown people on this list (so much so, in fact, that I was unable to find a single quote by him.) But Levitt had arguably as great an impact on American society as anyone ranked, because he was the creator of modern suburbia.

In the days before World War II, almost all homes in this nation were custom built. For those who were unable to do it themselves, this meant hiring an architect and a contractor. The resulting cost limited the construction of new homes to the very wealthy. Levitt was a builder who in World War II used pre-fab methods of construction for the Army in the Pacific. Back in the states he conceived of the notion that the same technology could be used to create assembly line homes for much cheaper than custom made, thus lowering prices so that the middle classes could afford it. Purchasing land in Hempstead, Long Island, he created the first Levittown. It was a major success. Soon more Levittowns were built all across the eastern United States, and following that Levitt's imitators built new communities all over America.

The result was the moden suburb that we know today, with all that it entails: urban sprawl, the abandonment and plight of our inner cities, the polarization of "safe neighborhoods" and "unsafe neighborhoods", etc. Levitt's original techniques would seem primitive by today's standards, but all modern day builders copy the basic idea- very very few homes today are ever custom built.

William Levitt himself made a fortune, lost a fortune, made another fortune, and lost that one as well. Kicked out of his original company, he was never able to reestablish his earlier success and died deeply in debt. His legacy, however, is that he changed America.

Next up: The greatest of the abolitionists...

You might want to research the neighborhood I live in (yes that location over there on the left is a real place) and its neighbor "Aero Acres". Pic

 

[timschochet]

32. William Levitt

William Levitt may be one of the more unknown people on this list (so much so, in fact, that I was unable to find a single quote by him.) But Levitt had arguably as great an impact on American society as anyone ranked, because he was the creator of modern suburbia.

In the days before World War II, almost all homes in this nation were custom built. For those who were unable to do it themselves, this meant hiring an architect and a contractor. The resulting cost limited the construction of new homes to the very wealthy. Levitt was a builder who in World War II used pre-fab methods of construction for the Army in the Pacific. Back in the states he conceived of the notion that the same technology could be used to create assembly line homes for much cheaper than custom made, thus lowering prices so that the middle classes could afford it. Purchasing land in Hempstead, Long Island, he created the first Levittown. It was a major success. Soon more Levittowns were built all across the eastern United States, and following that Levitt's imitators built new communities all over America.

The result was the moden suburb that we know today, with all that it entails: urban sprawl, the abandonment and plight of our inner cities, the polarization of "safe neighborhoods" and "unsafe neighborhoods", etc. Levitt's original techniques would seem primitive by today's standards, but all modern day builders copy the basic idea- very very few homes today are ever custom built.

William Levitt himself made a fortune, lost a fortune, made another fortune, and lost that one as well. Kicked out of his original company, he was never able to reestablish his earlier success and died deeply in debt. His legacy, however, is that he changed America.

Next up: The greatest of the abolitionists...

You might want to research the neighborhood I live in (yes that location over there on the left is a real place) and its neighbor "Aero Acres". Pic

If you're saying there were a few before Levitt, then that wouldn't surprise me. But like Columbus Levitt is the one who got noticed so he gets the historical credit.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

32. William Levitt

William Levitt may be one of the more unknown people on this list (so much so, in fact, that I was unable to find a single quote by him.) But Levitt had arguably as great an impact on American society as anyone ranked, because he was the creator of modern suburbia.

In the days before World War II, almost all homes in this nation were custom built. For those who were unable to do it themselves, this meant hiring an architect and a contractor. The resulting cost limited the construction of new homes to the very wealthy. Levitt was a builder who in World War II used pre-fab methods of construction for the Army in the Pacific. Back in the states he conceived of the notion that the same technology could be used to create assembly line homes for much cheaper than custom made, thus lowering prices so that the middle classes could afford it. Purchasing land in Hempstead, Long Island, he created the first Levittown. It was a major success. Soon more Levittowns were built all across the eastern United States, and following that Levitt's imitators built new communities all over America.

The result was the moden suburb that we know today, with all that it entails: urban sprawl, the abandonment and plight of our inner cities, the polarization of "safe neighborhoods" and "unsafe neighborhoods", etc. Levitt's original techniques would seem primitive by today's standards, but all modern day builders copy the basic idea- very very few homes today are ever custom built.

William Levitt himself made a fortune, lost a fortune, made another fortune, and lost that one as well. Kicked out of his original company, he was never able to reestablish his earlier success and died deeply in debt. His legacy, however, is that he changed America.

Next up: The greatest of the abolitionists...

You might want to research the neighborhood I live in (yes that location over there on the left is a real place) and its neighbor "Aero Acres". Pic

If you're saying there were a few before Levitt, then that wouldn't surprise me. But like Columbus Levitt is the one who got noticed so he gets the historical credit.

He might very well deserve to be on the list of influential American for being the "one credited" for making a fortune running with the idea. However new communities - suburbs with cheap prefabbed housing (due to material shortage of traditional techniques) was popping up all over the country near those booming war machine factories (see also Oak Ridge, TN) . They are innovation of the war, not post war.

 

[Insomniac]

32. William Levitt

William Levitt may be one of the more unknown people on this list (so much so, in fact, that I was unable to find a single quote by him.) But Levitt had arguably as great an impact on American society as anyone ranked, because he was the creator of modern suburbia.

In the days before World War II, almost all homes in this nation were custom built. For those who were unable to do it themselves, this meant hiring an architect and a contractor. The resulting cost limited the construction of new homes to the very wealthy. Levitt was a builder who in World War II used pre-fab methods of construction for the Army in the Pacific. Back in the states he conceived of the notion that the same technology could be used to create assembly line homes for much cheaper than custom made, thus lowering prices so that the middle classes could afford it. Purchasing land in Hempstead, Long Island, he created the first Levittown. It was a major success. Soon more Levittowns were built all across the eastern United States, and following that Levitt's imitators built new communities all over America.

The result was the moden suburb that we know today, with all that it entails: urban sprawl, the abandonment and plight of our inner cities, the polarization of "safe neighborhoods" and "unsafe neighborhoods", etc. Levitt's original techniques would seem primitive by today's standards, but all modern day builders copy the basic idea- very very few homes today are ever custom built.

William Levitt himself made a fortune, lost a fortune, made another fortune, and lost that one as well. Kicked out of his original company, he was never able to reestablish his earlier success and died deeply in debt. His legacy, however, is that he changed America.

Next up: The greatest of the abolitionists...

For better or worse Robert Moses was more important for creating suburbia than Levitt.

 

[timschochet]

31. Frederick Douglass

I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and incur my own abhorrence.

We're moving up the list here rapidly, and there's not much room anymore for anyone who isn't an absolute giant or the definition of a great man. Frederick Douglass surely falls into that category. His Wiki page describes him as "African-American social reformer, abolitionist, orator, writer, and statesman." He was all of these things and more. To take one aspect of that writeup: Douglass was one of the truly great orators in American history. Although many famous people associated themselves with the abolitionist movement in the decades prior to the Civil War, none were able to fight slavery as effectively as Douglass through his speeches, which moved thousands of people. Douglass was, of course, a slave, a self-educated man who escaped and was able to give voice to the yearning for freedom.

He was the first famous black man in American society. He was also the most significant black man in his day, and as a civil rights leader is rivaled only by Booker T. Washington and the even more famous guy coming up later on this list. It must be said that he was somewhat of a radical. Douglass came to believe that force would be necessary to liberate the slaves, and he approved of John Brown (like many other abolitionists, he did NOT approve of Abraham Lincoln.) After the war, Douglass supported a forceful reconstruction of the South.

He remained uncertain through the end of his life whether or not integration of the two races would really work. For that reason, he supported both the Liberia colony and the failed effort to annex the West Indies. Interestingly enough, he was buried in Rochester New York in the same cemetery as Susan B. Anthony. (Mount Hope- I have been there.)

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

Dynamic Duos?

 

[Tin Cup]

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

Hall & Oates?

 

[timschochet]

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

Hall & Oates?

If they had stuck with their soulful sound of the late 70s- songs like "Rich Girl", "She's Gone", "You Make My Dreams"- they'd merit serious consideration. But beginning with "Kiss On My Lips" it all went downhill.

 

[Shankopotamus]

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

Dynamic Duos?

Maybe one could be the most famous Orville not named Reddenbacher.

 

[RCon]

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

Hall & Oates?

If they had stuck with their soulful sound of the late 70s- songs like "Rich Girl", "She's Gone", "You Make My Dreams"- they'd merit serious consideration. But beginning with "Kiss On My Lips" it all went downhill.

Just so you know, you say one bad thing about Private Eyes and you're dead to me.

 

[timschochet]

Up next- The first of two duos on this list...

Hall & Oates?

If they had stuck with their soulful sound of the late 70s- songs like "Rich Girl", "She's Gone", "You Make My Dreams"- they'd merit serious consideration. But beginning with "Kiss On My Lips" it all went downhill.

Just so you know, you say one bad thing about Private Eyes and you're dead to me.

Yeah that's in the sucky period after they sold out.

 

[timschochet]

30. Lewis and Clark

On the acquisition of Louisiana, in the year 1803, the attention of the government of the United States was early directed towards exploring and improving the new territory.- Merriwether Lewis

Boys, be ambitious. Be ambitious not for money, not for selfish aggrandizement, not for the evanescent thing which men call fame. Be ambitious for the attainment of all that a man can be. - George Clark

I know that this supposed to be a list of the 100 greatest Americans, and because I'm using two pairs, it's actually 102 greatest Americans, but it's my list so tough. Anyhow, a lot of people do the same thing. Certainly nobody talks about either Merriwether Lewis or George Clark by themselves- though George Clark sometimes gets confused with his older brother George Rogers Clark who also had a dramatic impact on American history.

It's pretty obvious why these guys are on this list and ranked so highly. Every American school child knows their story (or should.) Over the years there has been some revisionist history regarding their exploration- first, some native American historians would like our school textbooks to give more attention to Sacajawea, the Indian girl who translated for the two explorers. Next, Black American studies would have us note that one of Clark's slaves named York traveled with him, performed manual labor for no reward or compensation, and had a key impact on diplomatic relations with the indigenous peoples that were discovered along the way.

Both of these points are important IMO for historical detail, but neither should be used to diminish the incredible accomplishment of the two explorers themselves. They volunteered, nearly died, kept vital records, and proved themselves among the greatest explorers in world history. Their accomplishment truly was legendary, and changed the history of the United States (though native Americans would argue that this change was NOT positive.)

Up next: The only person on this list born in Hawaii...

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Tia Carrere

 

[Ookie Pringle]

Don Ho?

 

[Don Quixote]

Lennay Kakua?

 

[RCon]

I think you mean Kenya.

 

[dparker713]

Kelly Hu

 

[timschochet]

29. Barack Obama

I am an ardent believer in the free market.

Great quote, huh? It's actually quite true, IMO.

OK, let's get this out of the way: despite the fact that I didn't vote for Barack Obama, I've always liked him. He seems like a genuinely good guy to me. As a President, I considered him slightly less than mediocre after the first 4 years. I approved of his foreign policy, disapproved of ACA, approved of the stimulus package with a few reservations. Since 2012 my estimation of him as President has shot way up; I now consider him to be one of our very good Presidents, almost (but not quite) great. This is mainly due to foreign policy achievements; in his domestic policy he has been barely adequate (though to be fair that is not all his fault, as his opponents in Congress have been recalcitrant.

None of this has anything to do with why I have ranked Barack Obama as the 29th greatest ever American. He is ranked here for the obvious reason that he was our first black President. Given the history of our country, and the events that dominated that history: slavery, the Civil War, Reconstruction, Jim Crow, the Civil Rights era- Obama's victory in 2008 represents a coda to those events. Yes, race remains an issue; we have not yet solved all of it's problems, and we may never will. But given our past, it's a remarkable achievement, something we can all take pride in as Americans. It will probably sound corny when I write this, but Obama's election proved to the world that the liberty and equality of rights that we have claimed for most of our existence as a nation became true after all.

Next up: the subject matter of a very good alternative history novel by Philip Roth

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Tim off topic but I have question on Judaism if that's ok. What is Chabad or the Chabad movement and what is the significance in modern Judaism? Thanks.

 

[timschochet]

Tim off topic but I have question on Judaism if that's ok. What is Chabad or the Chabad movement and what is the significance in modern Judaism? Thanks.

Chabad is an offshoot of the Hasidic movement, which began in the 1700s- both are extreme forms of Orthodox Jews, originated in Eastern Europe. As Jews began to assimilate into larger gentile culture, the Hasids, Chabads, and Lubavitch preferred to keep to the old ways, preferring to dress as their ancestors in Eastern Europe had dressed, and living with old customs of separating men and women, spending their time studying Talmud, accepting the Bible as inerrant, etc. There are a few similarities to the Amish, although they don't reject technology (except on Saturdays) and also analogies to very religious Muslims.

What separates the Chabad from the Hasids is the latter prefer to be apart, not only from gentiles but from other Jews, and don't deal with other groups unless they are forced to. The Chabad on the other hand, while very religious, are open to outsiders and believe it is their sacred duty to spread charity and good works to everyone. Thus members of the Chabad are among the most charitable in this country, particularly in the inner city, and their leaders are often well known to community leaders as well.

Hope that helps.

 

[Righetti]

From Deadspin

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Has An American President Ever Watched Porn In The Oval Office?

69,22316

Drew Magary

Filed to: FUNBAG

11/03/15 1:51pm

Has An American President Ever Watched Porn In The Oval Office?

Time for your weekly edition of the Deadspin Funbag. Got something on your mind? Email the Funbag. Today, were covering potluck weddings, uniforms, baseball coaches, boogers, and more.

Your letters:

Carlos:

How many presidents do you think have watched or looked at porn in the Oval Office? My buddy Cameron and I were debating if Nixon ever ordered a copy of Deep Throat to watch in his final days.

Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton are definites. Our friends at io9 compiled a list of spooky movies that Nixon watched in the White House, one of which was a sexy thriller called What the Peeper Saw:

I had seen this most obscene, horrible ####### movie the other night, President Nixon told his staff, before lamenting the fact that wholesome movies were no longer in style with the American public.

Oh yeah, Nixon jerked off to that. He watched it with his pants around his ankles and did his business and then cursed the Jews in Hollywood for corrupting him. That would be the Nixon move. Lets start at the turn of the century and try to identify which American presidents might have developed a furious fapping habit.

Teddy Roosevelt. I would put him down for NO, because the thing that gave TR the biggest boner was killing elephants. No need to look at naked women when you can summon Dumbo to the Oval Office and personally amputate his tusks. THE ULTIMATE RUSH.

William Howard Taft. Oh hell YES. Look at this fat, jolly perv. He looks like he MADE porn. He probably chased naked French girls around the White House while Yakety Sax played in the background.

Woodrow Wilson. His wife died while he was in office, so YES. Helps with the grieving process.

Warren Harding. One of the worst, most corrupt presidents in history, so YES. In order to be truly corrupt, you also have to be unrelentingly horny.

Calvin Coolidge. I know nothing about Calvin Coolidge. Was he REALLY president? What if historians made him up? I truther his very existence. Anyway YES.

Herbert Hoover. Plunged America into the Great Depression and didnt even realize it until people were eating bricks of dust for supper, so YES. That kind of rich, haughty indifference to human misery goes hand-in-hand with a healthy libido. Nice job, Hoover. While you were fapping to flappers, my grandpappy had to sleep on a bed of roaches!

FDR. YES. Cheated on his wife all the time. Surprisingly randy for a guy in a wheelchair. Kind of inspiring, frankly.

Harry Truman. Im gonna put him down for NO, and thats because he took over the job in the middle of a war and then ended that war by launching the only nuclear attack in world history. If I dropped two nuclear bombs, I would barely be able to get out of bed in the morning, let alone peruse a copy of STRUMPET magazine.

Dwight Eisenhower. Nope.

JFK. YESSSSSSSSSSS YES YES YES. He probably had a stash of porn in the ####### motorcade. JFK suffered from horrible spine problems, colitis, thyroid issues, and Addisons disease and yet he STILL managed to sleep with every woman on the face of the planet. There was no stopping him.

Lyndon Johnson. He retrofitted a White House shower specifically so that one of the water jets could massage his ####, so YES.

Nixon. Weve covered this. I bet J. Edgar Hoover personally delivered surveillance audio of Martin Luther King, Jr. trysts DIRECTLY to this man. His ghost probably haunts RedTube.

Gerald Ford. His wife went to rehab, right? YES.

Jimmy Carter. Nope. People, theres no time for self-gratification when the world is suffering from so much INJUSTICE. The amount of timber we use to make one issue of Penthouse magazine could build 100 peanut farms!

Ronald Reagan. Given that Reagan was seemingly senile from age 14 onward, Im gonna put him down for NO. Nancy probably gave him polite handjobs while he leafed through a copy of LIFE magazine.

George Bush. Nope. Probably didnt even realize pornography existed.

Clinton. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWW!!!!

George W. Bush. YES, if only because W was known as a prankster (no wonder he started two warspranksters are all terrible people), so he probably planted a copy of Hustler on Roves chair and was like, Loogit Rove! Whatcha doin with all that porn, Tubby? And then much laughter and bombing ensued.

Obama. YES, because aides have probably shown him celebrity sex tapes so that he can remain fluent in pop culture. How can I trust a president who hasnt watched Ray J bone Kim Kardashian on-camera? These are the issues that matter to me.

Thats 13 Presidents, which is probably a low estimate, because every man ever has probably looked at pornography. But Im sure there were guys like the first Bush who were like, No, no, I dont look at that sort of filth before heading off to the ####ter to sift through the PORN OF IMAGINATION.

 

[timschochet]

28. Charles Lindbergh

I realized that if I had to choose, I would rather have birds than airplanes.

I'm not really a fan of this pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic defeatist. I could argue that in the late 1930s he did everything he could to weaken America and England by arguing that the victory of Hitler was not only inevitable, but in his mind a good thing, (Or, in the words of his wife, "the wave of the future." Lindy, who personally received a Nazi medal from the hands of Hermann Goering, was very close to being a traitor. He was one of two men more responsible than any others for the defeatist attitude that almost cost the free world an early victory in World War II- the other being Joe Kennedy, the father of JFK, who was also a fierce pro-Nazi anti-semite.

Nonetheless, I am forced to place Lindbergh on this list, and pretty damn high up at that, because as an aviator making the first solo flight across the Atlantic Ocean, he has to go down as one of the greatest heroes in American history. That flight took tremendous courage, skill, calculation, and wisdom (little of which Lindbergh exhibited later on) and not a little luck. During the 1920s Lindy was representative of the "can-do" spirit of Americans around the entire world. He was lauded as our greatest citizen of the time, and rightfully so. Perhaps it was the terrible kidnapping and loss of his baby that turned him into something else; we'll never know.

The quote I chose was from late in his life and is representative of a lot of his statements in old age. Lindbergh became a mystic, anti-technology almost to the point of Luddism. When interviewed upon man landing on the moon, Lindy decried it, suggesting that it wasn't impressive in the least and that it only depressed him, because mankind was doomed. Jealousy perhaps?

Next up: The man who made our dreams come true...

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Darryl Hall?