To all the "experts" who doubted Vince Young (1 Viewer)

[Slingblade]

I just checked Mcnabbs rookie season for the hell of it.

He also had a 49.1 completion percentage.

 

[RKMoney]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

Boggles the mind, funny but one of THE BEST COMEBACKS involves a rookie QB still has doubters. First, no chance they were going to beat the mighty USC Trojans then he wasn't given enough credit and said no way he could do this in the NFL and first year in, the 8th game, he pulls off not since Elway, that big of a comeback in the 4th quarter by a rookie QB. Then it's not against the best teams in the league and I'm sure we will hear more reasons why he really had little to do with it when he wins again.

4-4 record for one of the worst teams in the league led by what many "experts" didn't think would remotely be NFL ready is damn impressive.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think the answer is "they aren't hiding at all".

 

[kingmalaki]

Stats are so important guys. Trust me. I live in Houston and get to see David Carr put up great numbers every week. Hell, he actually tied one NFL mark last week.

 

[RKMoney]

Stats are so important guys. Trust me. I live in Houston and get to see David Carr put up great numbers every week. Hell, he actually tied one NFL mark last week.

and before that, Warren Moon, incredible stats but not a leader or could come back like that vs. any team.Carr example is a great one. No way does he have that leadership quality that VY has and to think the Texans could have drafted him, a local hero. I know

 

[LHUCKS]

I'm right here.

I stand by my original statements.

I will say that he is making less mistakes than I originally thought he might.

 

[kingmalaki]

Stats are so important guys. Trust me. I live in Houston and get to see David Carr put up great numbers every week. Hell, he actually tied one NFL mark last week.

and before that, Warren Moon, incredible stats but not a leader or could come back like that vs. any team.Carr example is a great one. No way does he have that leadership quality that VY has and to think the Texans could have drafted him, a local hero. I know

Dude, Moon was a leader. In most of the big Oiler playoff losses he left the field with a lead. It's not his fault that he doesn't play defense.

 

[mbuehner]

and before that, Warren Moon, incredible stats but not a leader or could come back like that vs. any team.Carr example is a great one. No way does he have that leadership quality that VY has and to think the Texans could have drafted him, a local hero.

I've got a strong premonition that in the near future VY throws for 2 or 3 TDs but the Titans lose and this argument is flipped on its ear. Then we start hearing about how great a talent he is but without any help its not his fault. From the same man-crushers of course.

 

[jayboy444]

i seem to remember leinart being christened "NFL futurestar" after nearly orchestrating a comeback win versus kansas city in week 5. wot happened? young is in the same boat. nice win, but not enough to make him "NFL futurestar" yet.

 

[jayboy444]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

did young win or did giants tank? giants "D" definately NOT best in the league, that's for sure!

 

[LHUCKS]

BTW...

Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

 

[RKMoney]

and before that, Warren Moon, incredible stats but not a leader or could come back like that vs. any team.Carr example is a great one. No way does he have that leadership quality that VY has and to think the Texans could have drafted him, a local hero.

I've got a strong premonition that in the near future VY throws for 2 or 3 TDs but the Titans lose and this argument is flipped on its ear. Then we start hearing about how great a talent he is but without any help its not his fault. From the same man-crushers of course.

I would definitely say that he is maximizing the talent that he has to date.

 

[RKMoney]

BTW...Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

He never beat VY and has one win to show for it while having more WR talent than VY. Definitely not better than VY.

 

[RKMoney]

LHUCKS, no offense but Matt Leinhart hasn't show me that he is their leader in Zona and anyone that QBs for USC will put up gawdy numbers. Young is clearly TEN leader, jury's still out if Matt will follow.

 

[Hawk]

BTW...

Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

Not at all a joke, rather a very good decision. Leinart falling to #10 was a joke. And i will say that Leinart has put his team into position to win a couple of games that his kicker blew, so he's doing okay. Vince was the perfect choice for Tenn though. Unrelated, I thought this was a good article from someone who did see Vince as more than "average" in that game.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...PORTS/611280327

 

[Bevo]

BTW...

Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

Maybe, maybe not, we are years away from finding out about that.I kind of wonder how each of them would be doing up to this point in time if VY was in Arizona with a couple of the top WRs in the NFL and Leinart was in Tennessee with virtually no offensive weapons much less 2 of the best WRs?

 

[B. Nugget]

RKMoney,

We all get that you are passionate about VY; he is a GREAT PROSPECT that is living up to some of his hype, but just because some people aren't convinced that he is going to be a great pro QB doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong. Most of the doubters see a taller version of Mike Vick and whether you like it or not, there are many similarities. You say Vick doesn’t compare because he’s never won anything, but the fact is that he took a much less talented team to the championship game and torched a very good FSU team for huge yards. His team didn’t win, but to totally dismiss his accomplishments is not good for your arguments with knowledgable fans.

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

Why don't you PM the beat writer for some links instead of calling him out repeatedly because quite honestly it is making you look bad. I agree that being a beat writer doesn't make him smart or give him more credibility, but you are losing yours by the post.

Also, you really can’t keep using the Rose Bowl as an example of being a huge underdog when you were #1 in the country when you rolled into Columbia, Missouri to play my Tigers 3 months earlier. Sure the media was picking USC, they kiss the ### of everybody on the coasts, but nobody is buying this David vs. Goliath fantasy tale.

 

[RKMoney]

BTW...

Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

Not at all a joke, rather a very good decision. Leinart falling to #10 was a joke. And i will say that Leinart has put his team into position to win a couple of games that his kicker blew, so he's doing okay. Vince was the perfect choice for Tenn though. Unrelated, I thought this was a good article from someone who did see Vince as more than "average" in that game.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...PORTS/611280327

How many wins does Matt have while having two top tier WR? Don't think VY has any stud WR..

 

[shuke]

still waiting for this 'beat writer' to post links to his stuff. I get a feeling he isn't a writer nor someone who has followed VY at all.

Bevo (the guy who asked) sent me a PM and he has the info. I write for a couple of newspapers and I contribute to a few sites that compete with FBG so I am not going to post a free plug. If you want the info, you can PM me but I'm not getting my FBG account booted on a count of you.

"on a count of"?What newspapers do you write for?

 

[RKMoney]

RKMoney,

We all get that you are passionate about VY; he is a GREAT PROSPECT that is living up to some of his hype, but just because some people aren't convinced that he is going to be a great pro QB doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong. Most of the doubters see a taller version of Mike Vick and whether you like it or not, there are many similarities. You say Vick doesn’t compare because he’s never won anything, but the fact is that he took a much less talented team to the championship game and torched a very good FSU team for huge yards. His team didn’t win, but to totally dismiss his accomplishments is not good for your arguments with knowledgable fans.

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

Why don't you PM the beat writer for some links instead of calling him out repeatedly because quite honestly it is making you look bad. I agree that being a beat writer doesn't make him smart or give him more credibility, but you are losing yours by the post.

Also, you really can’t keep using the Rose Bowl as an example of being a huge underdog when you were #1 in the country when you rolled into Columbia, Missouri to play my Tigers 3 months earlier. Sure the media was picking USC, they kiss the ### of everybody on the coasts, but nobody is buying this David vs. Goliath fantasy tale.

because they are both black because anyone who follows football knows that's where the comparison starts and ends.I like great football players, they can play for USC or UT or wherever so leave that out of the mix. Most fans are arrogant by the way.

I think it looks bad to say you are a writer and won't provide links and I can use the Rose Bowl as a great example when he produces within a year another incredible comeback..sorry but that's not by accident. He won every big game in college and honestly anyone who has watched this kid knows he's got "it".

FYI: I went to another Big 12 school so don't use the "I am a UT fan and clouded" bit cause it just isn't true.

Can't call him a Prospect after what he's done so far in the NFL, no way. Save the Prospect lable for Leinhart and the other rookie QBs, VY is going to stay a LONG time with TEN. The eyes don't lie.

 

[RKMoney]

still waiting for this 'beat writer' to post links to his stuff. I get a feeling he isn't a writer nor someone who has followed VY at all.

Bevo (the guy who asked) sent me a PM and he has the info. I write for a couple of newspapers and I contribute to a few sites that compete with FBG so I am not going to post a free plug. If you want the info, you can PM me but I'm not getting my FBG account booted on a count of you.

"on a count of"?

What newspapers do you write for?

Still trying to get him to answer that simple question.

 

[Brewzers]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

Combination, absolutely one of the biggest, most colossal tanks ever. I love it! However, VY took advantage of each blunder, isn't that what good players are supposed to do? Watch the video that was posted earlier. For Tenn first TD, VY flat out beat the NYG ends, linebackers and DBs to the corner for a running TD. That was a great football play by a playmaker....watch it, it is impressive. Then, watch VY go through his reads on that pinpoint perfect pass to Brandon Jones for ~20 yard TD defying two knocks against VY (he can't read coverages in the NFL and can't throw accurately beyond 10 yards?) Then the classic Kiwi blunder, but note that VY actually runs another 6 yards deeper, changes direction and another NYG player moves in for the tackle (#47.. don't know who that guy is) but Vince makes him look like a HS player or worse...he was still 10 yards short of a first down at that point. An earlier "beat writer" poster called Vince's performance average at best...that is such a horrible observation IMO. That was a fantastic performance by Vince showing off his skills, even more impressive, he is a rookie. What other rookie QB could have pulled that off? Scratch that, what other QB could have pulled that off? Sure, I realize that game does not make Vince an automatic great NFL QB. But doesn't that kind of football playmaking get you excited? Can you imagine the possibilities once he "gets" it? Even if I wasn't a UT homer, I would want to watch VY every week because he is exciting to watch.

 

[RKMoney]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

That's what usually separates them the greats from the rest....he made the entire Giants defense look pretty silly. He skilled them in the 4th quarter, it was as if he was playing USC...

 

[B. Nugget]

RKMoney,

We all get that you are passionate about VY; he is a GREAT PROSPECT that is living up to some of his hype, but just because some people aren't convinced that he is going to be a great pro QB doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong. Most of the doubters see a taller version of Mike Vick and whether you like it or not, there are many similarities. You say Vick doesn’t compare because he’s never won anything, but the fact is that he took a much less talented team to the championship game and torched a very good FSU team for huge yards. His team didn’t win, but to totally dismiss his accomplishments is not good for your arguments with knowledgable fans.

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

Why don't you PM the beat writer for some links instead of calling him out repeatedly because quite honestly it is making you look bad. I agree that being a beat writer doesn't make him smart or give him more credibility, but you are losing yours by the post.

Also, you really can’t keep using the Rose Bowl as an example of being a huge underdog when you were #1 in the country when you rolled into Columbia, Missouri to play my Tigers 3 months earlier. Sure the media was picking USC, they kiss the ### of everybody on the coasts, but nobody is buying this David vs. Goliath fantasy tale.

because they are both black because anyone who follows football knows that's where the comparison starts and ends.I like great football players, they can play for USC or UT or wherever so leave that out of the mix. Most fans are arrogant by the way.

I think it looks bad to say you are a writer and won't provide links and I can use the Rose Bowl as a great example when he produces within a year another incredible comeback..sorry but that's not by accident. He won every big game in college and honestly anyone who has watched this kid knows he's got "it".

FYI: I went to another Big 12 school so don't use the "I am a UT fan and clouded" bit cause it just isn't true.

Can't call him a Prospect after what he's done so far in the NFL, no way. Save the Prospect lable for Leinhart and the other rookie QBs, VY is going to stay a LONG time with TEN. The eyes don't lie.

Nobody is saying he won't be around for a long time, just not everybody is sold no hit yet. If you PM the guy, he will provide you with links, so I can't see how that is his fault.

 

[RKMoney]

Want to clear this up:

1. Did not got to UT, went to another Big 12 school

2. Hometown team is in same conference as TEN

so please spare the "homer" remarks...I can appreciate any player who you want to watch on Sunday, he is definitely one where you want to see what he'll do next.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

So...how do arrogant fans relate to Cedric Benson being an easy target? I fail to see the connection. Now, if you're saying that Benson is an easy target because he's arrogant, fine. I won't deny that, but it still has nothing to do with the fans. There are plenty of arrogant pro, college, and even h.s. athletes. Same, in some instances, with Roy Williams. I thought he was arrogant when he was still on campus.But get this, Vasher and DJ and Roy and Chris and Priest and whatever other current Texas NFL player you can think of are no Vince Young.

It's funny...when a Texas fan comes on here and says something totally outrageous...like when I posted before the Rose Bowl why I thought that it would be a good ballgame and that Texas wouldn't be blown out (the nerve of me)...or when someone comes on here and says Vince Young doesn't suck as bad as the "experts" in their omniscience claimed that he would, we're labelled as arrogant. Nobody is saying he's one of the greats or that he will be...just that he's doing better than most people (outside of Texas fans and many fans of teams who lost to him) expected.

Please forgive my insolence.

 

[Marc Levin]

"on a count of"?What newspapers do you write for?

shuke = classic

 

[Marc Levin]

It's funny...when a Texas fan comes on here and says something totally outrageous...like when I posted before the Rose Bowl why I thought that it would be a good ballgame and that Texas wouldn't be blown out (the nerve of me)...or when someone comes on here and says Vince Young doesn't suck as bad as the "experts" in their omniscience claimed that he would, we're labelled as arrogant.

hairy scotsman = smart about VY.He proved to me that Young /= (or even similar to) Mike Vick when that was certainly my misconception even after having been forced to watch Young for two years.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Thanks Marc.Here's something from Hawk's linked story:

And as painful as it was to watch Eli Manning prepare for one of the biggest games of his career by throwing away one his team had already won, it was even tougher to watch the guy on the other team.Because as Vince Young all but grabbed his teammates by their facemasks and forced them back into the game against the Giants, he showed you exactly what Manning lacks — poise, and fearlessness.Along with the kind of natural confidence that can't be created by an overprotective coach or set of teammates.You looked at Young yesterday and you saw the same thing you did in last year's Rose Bowl — a stubborn-as-hell player who inflicts fear instead of succumbing to it.Then you looked at Manning and saw the same scared-stiff look you've seen all too often this season and you tried to remember who the rookie was, exactly.

 

[guderian]

RKMoney,

We all get that you are passionate about VY; he is a GREAT PROSPECT that is living up to some of his hype, but just because some people aren't convinced that he is going to be a great pro QB doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong. Most of the doubters see a taller version of Mike Vick and whether you like it or not, there are many similarities. You say Vick doesn’t compare because he’s never won anything, but the fact is that he took a much less talented team to the championship game and torched a very good FSU team for huge yards. His team didn’t win, but to totally dismiss his accomplishments is not good for your arguments with knowledgable fans.

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

Why don't you PM the beat writer for some links instead of calling him out repeatedly because quite honestly it is making you look bad. I agree that being a beat writer doesn't make him smart or give him more credibility, but you are losing yours by the post.

Also, you really can’t keep using the Rose Bowl as an example of being a huge underdog when you were #1 in the country when you rolled into Columbia, Missouri to play my Tigers 3 months earlier. Sure the media was picking USC, they kiss the ### of everybody on the coasts, but nobody is buying this David vs. Goliath fantasy tale.

I urge you to search for the offseason threads about Vince Young. These weren't a typical FBGs thread where we argue for 10 pages about whether a QB will get 24 or 26 TDs. Your criticism of UT fans as arrogant because some people won't admit that Young is the "greatest ever" or that "because some people aren't convinced that he is going to be a great pro QB doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong" is another straw man. We were told that Vince Young would be a bust equivalent to Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith. Some of the comments were valid criticisms (e.g. his throwing motion and UT's spread offense). However, too many people were willing to dismiss his entire body of college work because they felt that he selected the wrong agent or that he conspired with the NFL to cover-up his botched Wonderlic. In fact the offseason threads were littered with comments about Young being unable to read. So forgive us if we are unwilling to let some of the doubters roll back their comparisons from "Leaf or Akili Smith" to "Michael Vick" or "he's not going to be a great QB".

 

[hi1111]

ryan fitzpatrick, dont care if somebody already posted it.

 

[Bevo]

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

It's funny...when a Texas fan comes on here and says something totally outrageous...like when I posted before the Rose Bowl why I thought that it would be a good ballgame and that Texas wouldn't be blown out (the nerve of me)...or when someone comes on here and says Vince Young doesn't suck as bad as the "experts" in their omniscience claimed that he would, we're labelled as arrogant. Nobody is saying he's one of the greats or that he will be...just that he's doing better than most people (outside of Texas fans and many fans of teams who lost to him) expected.

Very well said indeed!

 

[parasaurolophus]

im sorry...are we talking about the same vince young who is ranked 32nd in the league in QB rating? the same VY who has 1300 yds and 8 tds passing only and that is AFTER his huge game against the Gmen. So i guess because he is 4-4 that means that big ben is the best qb ever, cuz he only lost 2 games as a rookie and had mediocre numbers. I guess he just had that "it" factor and won all those games by himself.

the titans are not 4-4 because of him. They are 4-4 in spite of him.

I will give him the giants game. But do you really think him going 8-22 for 101 yds really had anything to do with them winning against the eagles? Was it all 87 of his yards passing that won the game against houston? I know the 161 yds against the redskins were the most amazing 161 yds ever and all, but come on people stop drinking the kool-aid.

for tennesee being such a bad team they somehow found a way to win when their qb went 8-22.

remember when tony banks had 5td passes against the jaguars to lead the ravens to a victory in their super bowl year? Oh yeah he really had "it"................THAT ONE FREAKIN DAY.

 

[Colin Dowling]

im sorry...are we talking about the same vince young who is ranked 32nd in the league in QB rating? the same VY who has 1300 yds and 8 tds passing only and that is AFTER his huge game against the Gmen. So i guess because he is 4-4 that means that big ben is the best qb ever, cuz he only lost 2 games as a rookie and had mediocre numbers. I guess he just had that "it" factor and won all those games by himself. the titans are not 4-4 because of him. They are 4-4 in spite of him. I will give him the giants game. But do you really think him going 8-22 for 101 yds really had anything to do with them winning against the eagles? Was it all 87 of his yards passing that won the game against houston? I know the 161 yds against the redskins were the most amazing 161 yds ever and all, but come on people stop drinking the kool-aid. for tennesee being such a bad team they somehow found a way to win when their qb went 8-22.remember when tony banks had 5td passes against the jaguars to lead the ravens to a victory in their super bowl year? Oh yeah he really had "it"................THAT ONE FREAKIN DAY.

:XThey'd have two wins, TOPS, with Collins at the helm.

 

[parasaurolophus]

collins is trash. if we are comparing VY to collins, then my point is already made.

There are easily 25qbs who could have lead the titans to a 4-4 record so far in the last 8 games.

You get 2 free wins vs Phi and WAS. Then you just have to pull out 2 more wins against a giants team that collapses, against an INDY team who only scored 14 points and the last 3 TEN drives were 3 and outs, against a baltimore team you lost to by 1 point where 7 of the last 8 drives were either punts or turnovers, and against houston where your defense/special teams score half your points.

 

[RKMoney]

Now as far as the "Greatest Ever" thing mentioned about UT fans, it is very true. UT fans are without a doubt the most arrogant I've ever witnessed, with possible exception to the Notre Dame fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. There is nothing wrong with being arrogant if you can back it up, but it won't win you many friends and you can see the backlash directed towards that arrogance make a guy like Benson an easy target. Nobody says anything about Vasher or DJ in Kansas City because they don't epitomize the better than you attitude like others. They are blue collar and Midwest football fans appreciate that.

So...how do arrogant fans relate to Cedric Benson being an easy target? I fail to see the connection. Now, if you're saying that Benson is an easy target because he's arrogant, fine. I won't deny that, but it still has nothing to do with the fans. There are plenty of arrogant pro, college, and even h.s. athletes. Same, in some instances, with Roy Williams. I thought he was arrogant when he was still on campus.But get this, Vasher and DJ and Roy and Chris and Priest and whatever other current Texas NFL player you can think of are no Vince Young.

It's funny...when a Texas fan comes on here and says something totally outrageous...like when I posted before the Rose Bowl why I thought that it would be a good ballgame and that Texas wouldn't be blown out (the nerve of me)...or when someone comes on here and says Vince Young doesn't suck as bad as the "experts" in their omniscience claimed that he would, we're labelled as arrogant. Nobody is saying he's one of the greats or that he will be...just that he's doing better than most people (outside of Texas fans and many fans of teams who lost to him) expected.

Please forgive my insolence.

 

[RKMoney]

im sorry...are we talking about the same vince young who is ranked 32nd in the league in QB rating? the same VY who has 1300 yds and 8 tds passing only and that is AFTER his huge game against the Gmen. So i guess because he is 4-4 that means that big ben is the best qb ever, cuz he only lost 2 games as a rookie and had mediocre numbers. I guess he just had that "it" factor and won all those games by himself.

the titans are not 4-4 because of him. They are 4-4 in spite of him.

I will give him the giants game. But do you really think him going 8-22 for 101 yds really had anything to do with them winning against the eagles? Was it all 87 of his yards passing that won the game against houston? I know the 161 yds against the redskins were the most amazing 161 yds ever and all, but come on people stop drinking the kool-aid.

for tennesee being such a bad team they somehow found a way to win when their qb went 8-22.

remember when tony banks had 5td passes against the jaguars to lead the ravens to a victory in their super bowl year? Oh yeah he really had "it"................THAT ONE FREAKIN DAY.

You do know that's a meaningless stat, don't you.

 

[RKMoney]

collins is trash. if we are comparing VY to collins, then my point is already made.

There are easily 25qbs who could have lead the titans to a 4-4 record so far in the last 8 games.

You get 2 free wins vs Phi and WAS. Then you just have to pull out 2 more wins against a giants team that collapses, against an INDY team who only scored 14 points and the last 3 TEN drives were 3 and outs, against a baltimore team you lost to by 1 point where 7 of the last 8 drives were either punts or turnovers, and against houston where your defense/special teams score half your points.

Please, stop and put down the pipe you are killing me! If you follow the NFL at all you know there are NO FREE WINS.

This has to be the worst post of the week.

 

[Brewzers]

collins is trash. if we are comparing VY to collins, then my point is already made.

There are easily 25qbs who could have lead the titans to a 4-4 record so far in the last 8 games.

You get 2 free wins vs Phi and WAS. Then you just have to pull out 2 more wins against a giants team that collapses, against an INDY team who only scored 14 points and the last 3 TEN drives were 3 and outs, against a baltimore team you lost to by 1 point where 7 of the last 8 drives were either punts or turnovers, and against houston where your defense/special teams score half your points.

Fact...Tennessee 0-3 and left for dead before VY and 4-4 with VY. Absolutely amazing what kind of team play can transpire when you put effective leaders in place. Yep, he's Black and he's got Mojo. Deal with it!.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Did you actually watch the game or are you basing it on a summary and a box score?

The Giants made 2 or 3 BONEHEAD plays on 4th down that would have ended drives, on plays where Young looked average at best. (Kiwi's inability to wrap up for fear of a flag and Frank Walker's late hit out of bounds)

Had the Giants not made those plays the drive would have ended for Tenn and his stats would have ended around 175yds passing and 50 rushing (roughly).

So the short answer is... Yes, Young made some nice plays when given a second chance, but his initial effort was average. Most quarterbacks in the NFL will succeed (or at least make a better play than the 1st) if given a second chance, and Young is no different.

So to answer your question about him "single handedly" winning the game... he had a lot of help from big blue's mistakes. I do think he will be a very good player someday, but lets not blow this win out of proportion and start carving his bust for Canton just yet.

Fantsy football is killing the sport.

Vince Young is a winner. Anyone watch the Rose Bowl last year? Need I say anymore about this guy's leadership and all apround skills?

Vince Young is going to be a special player.

No doubt and this thread will prove it.

This thread and message board would not exist without fantasy football. Fantasy football has increased the popularity of the NFL by 1,000,000 times. Don't dis fantasy football.

 

[matuski]

BTW...

Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

Maybe, maybe not, we are years away from finding out about that.I kind of wonder how each of them would be doing up to this point in time if VY was in Arizona with a couple of the top WRs in the NFL and Leinart was in Tennessee with virtually no offensive weapons much less 2 of the best WRs?

Arizona is one of a few teams in the league that is hands down worse than Tennesee, every advatage you try to give Leinart is more than comensated for elsewhere on that AZ offense... Leinart does not have any clear advantage here.

 

[Bevo]

BTW...

Leinart will always be better than VY. Picking VY ahead of Leinart is still a complete joke.

Maybe, maybe not, we are years away from finding out about that.I kind of wonder how each of them would be doing up to this point in time if VY was in Arizona with a couple of the top WRs in the NFL and Leinart was in Tennessee with virtually no offensive weapons much less 2 of the best WRs?

Arizona is one of a few teams in the league that is hands down worse than Tennesee, every advatage you try to give Leinart is more than comensated for elsewhere on that AZ offense... Leinart does not have any clear advantage here.

Another Aggie response. But as soon as I saw the poster I knew that was coming.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

im sorry...are we talking about the same vince young who is ranked 32nd in the league in QB rating? the same VY who has 1300 yds and 8 tds passing only and that is AFTER his huge game against the Gmen. So i guess because he is 4-4 that means that big ben is the best qb ever, cuz he only lost 2 games as a rookie and had mediocre numbers. I guess he just had that "it" factor and won all those games by himself. the titans are not 4-4 because of him. They are 4-4 in spite of him. I will give him the giants game. But do you really think him going 8-22 for 101 yds really had anything to do with them winning against the eagles? Was it all 87 of his yards passing that won the game against houston? I know the 161 yds against the redskins were the most amazing 161 yds ever and all, but come on people stop drinking the kool-aid. for tennesee being such a bad team they somehow found a way to win when their qb went 8-22.remember when tony banks had 5td passes against the jaguars to lead the ravens to a victory in their super bowl year? Oh yeah he really had "it"................THAT ONE FREAKIN DAY.

:XThey'd have two wins, TOPS, with Collins at the helm.

how many would the raiders have though?

 

[Dt's Mules]

QB rating can sometimes be a good indication of qb play, but it often fails to take into account other good decisions made by a qb during the course of a game. For example, IIRC, completion % is a factor in its calculation. What about making a good decision by throwing the ball away instead of forcing it. What about running for the first down instead of taking the chance on throwing it. I'm just saying QB rating certainly isn't the be-all end-all when it comes to evaluating play.

Sure, VY has some growing to do to be an elite QB, but he's winning during the growth process which speaks volumes to me.

KID is a winner. PERIOD.

 

[RKMoney]

Did you actually watch the game or are you basing it on a summary and a box score?

The Giants made 2 or 3 BONEHEAD plays on 4th down that would have ended drives, on plays where Young looked average at best. (Kiwi's inability to wrap up for fear of a flag and Frank Walker's late hit out of bounds)

Had the Giants not made those plays the drive would have ended for Tenn and his stats would have ended around 175yds passing and 50 rushing (roughly).

So the short answer is... Yes, Young made some nice plays when given a second chance, but his initial effort was average. Most quarterbacks in the NFL will succeed (or at least make a better play than the 1st) if given a second chance, and Young is no different.

So to answer your question about him "single handedly" winning the game... he had a lot of help from big blue's mistakes. I do think he will be a very good player someday, but lets not blow this win out of proportion and start carving his bust for Canton just yet.

Fantsy football is killing the sport.

Vince Young is a winner. Anyone watch the Rose Bowl last year? Need I say anymore about this guy's leadership and all apround skills?

Vince Young is going to be a special player.

No doubt and this thread will prove it.

This thread and message board would not exist without fantasy football. Fantasy football has increased the popularity of the NFL by 1,000,000 times. Don't dis fantasy football.

Fantasy football is killing the sport. They aren't the same but people try to make them the same. Apples to oranges.

 

[moleculo]

Did you actually watch the game or are you basing it on a summary and a box score?

The Giants made 2 or 3 BONEHEAD plays on 4th down that would have ended drives, on plays where Young looked average at best. (Kiwi's inability to wrap up for fear of a flag and Frank Walker's late hit out of bounds)

Had the Giants not made those plays the drive would have ended for Tenn and his stats would have ended around 175yds passing and 50 rushing (roughly).

So the short answer is... Yes, Young made some nice plays when given a second chance, but his initial effort was average. Most quarterbacks in the NFL will succeed (or at least make a better play than the 1st) if given a second chance, and Young is no different.

So to answer your question about him "single handedly" winning the game... he had a lot of help from big blue's mistakes. I do think he will be a very good player someday, but lets not blow this win out of proportion and start carving his bust for Canton just yet.

Fantsy football is killing the sport.

Vince Young is a winner. Anyone watch the Rose Bowl last year? Need I say anymore about this guy's leadership and all apround skills?

Vince Young is going to be a special player.

No doubt and this thread will prove it.

This thread and message board would not exist without fantasy football. Fantasy football has increased the popularity of the NFL by 1,000,000 times. Don't dis fantasy football.

Fantasy football is killing the sport. They aren't the same but people try to make them the same. Apples to oranges.

how is opinion on a particular player killing the sport?

 

[parasaurolophus]

collins is trash. if we are comparing VY to collins, then my point is already made.

There are easily 25qbs who could have lead the titans to a 4-4 record so far in the last 8 games.

You get 2 free wins vs Phi and WAS. Then you just have to pull out 2 more wins against a giants team that collapses, against an INDY team who only scored 14 points and the last 3 TEN drives were 3 and outs, against a baltimore team you lost to by 1 point where 7 of the last 8 drives were either punts or turnovers, and against houston where your defense/special teams score half your points.

Please, stop and put down the pipe you are killing me! If you follow the NFL at all you know there are NO FREE WINS.

This has to be the worst post of the week.

Well when you go 8-22 for 101 yds and your team wins 31-13 wtf would you call that? I would seriously like to hear how in the world vince young is the reason they beat the eagles.When you go 13-25 for a whopping 161 yds and your running back gives you 32 carries for 178 yrds and the other team turns it over twice, how does VY win that game for them?

When you go an even more amazing 7-15 for 87 yds and your whole team generates less than 200 yds but still gets 28 points because the defense and special teams scores 2 tds how the heck is it that VY wins that game?

What else can you call those games for a qb??? other than FREE WINS. They werent free for the other players who carried the team. they were FREE for VY.

Seriously guys...the "he is a winner" defense is the weakest thing i have ever heard. You can brush off a poor performance because you can say well he "led the team to a win". Frankly its horsecrap. Joe Montana was a leader. He was a leader because he was a great QB, plain and simple. He was smart and he made the right play almost every time. There arent too many 7-15 and 87 yds performances on his resume where HE got the credit for the win. People dont take you seriously in the NFL when you go 7-15 on a regular basis.

QBs that LEAD their teams to victory are the ones who have great games and their team wins. They have efficient mistake free games, and their team wins. Then when they have mediocre or poor games, their team loses. A qb that plays like crap and still eeks out a win, is flat out lucky, not a leader.

 

[Dt's Mules]

collins is trash. if we are comparing VY to collins, then my point is already made.

There are easily 25qbs who could have lead the titans to a 4-4 record so far in the last 8 games.

You get 2 free wins vs Phi and WAS. Then you just have to pull out 2 more wins against a giants team that collapses, against an INDY team who only scored 14 points and the last 3 TEN drives were 3 and outs, against a baltimore team you lost to by 1 point where 7 of the last 8 drives were either punts or turnovers, and against houston where your defense/special teams score half your points.

Please, stop and put down the pipe you are killing me! If you follow the NFL at all you know there are NO FREE WINS.

This has to be the worst post of the week.

Well when you go 8-22 for 101 yds and your team wins 31-13 wtf would you call that? I would seriously like to hear how in the world vince young is the reason they beat the eagles.When you go 13-25 for a whopping 161 yds and your running back gives you 32 carries for 178 yrds and the other team turns it over twice, how does VY win that game for them?

When you go an even more amazing 7-15 for 87 yds and your whole team generates less than 200 yds but still gets 28 points because the defense and special teams scores 2 tds how the heck is it that VY wins that game?

What else can you call those games for a qb??? other than FREE WINS. They werent free for the other players who carried the team. they were FREE for VY.

Seriously guys...the "he is a winner" defense is the weakest thing i have ever heard. You can brush off a poor performance because you can say well he "led the team to a win". Frankly its horsecrap. Joe Montana was a leader. He was a leader because he was a great QB, plain and simple. He was smart and he made the right play almost every time. There arent too many 7-15 and 87 yds performances on his resume where HE got the credit for the win. People dont take you seriously in the NFL when you go 7-15 on a regular basis.

QBs that LEAD their teams to victory are the ones who have great games and their team wins. They have efficient mistake free games, and their team wins. Then when they have mediocre or poor games, their team loses. A qb that plays like crap and still eeks out a win, is flat out lucky, not a leader.

ever think that those running holes are opened up in some way b/c of defensive players being forced to stay at home due to the threat of VY running?

 

[parasaurolophus]

collins is trash. if we are comparing VY to collins, then my point is already made.

There are easily 25qbs who could have lead the titans to a 4-4 record so far in the last 8 games.

You get 2 free wins vs Phi and WAS. Then you just have to pull out 2 more wins against a giants team that collapses, against an INDY team who only scored 14 points and the last 3 TEN drives were 3 and outs, against a baltimore team you lost to by 1 point where 7 of the last 8 drives were either punts or turnovers, and against houston where your defense/special teams score half your points.

Please, stop and put down the pipe you are killing me! If you follow the NFL at all you know there are NO FREE WINS.

This has to be the worst post of the week.

Well when you go 8-22 for 101 yds and your team wins 31-13 wtf would you call that? I would seriously like to hear how in the world vince young is the reason they beat the eagles.When you go 13-25 for a whopping 161 yds and your running back gives you 32 carries for 178 yrds and the other team turns it over twice, how does VY win that game for them?

When you go an even more amazing 7-15 for 87 yds and your whole team generates less than 200 yds but still gets 28 points because the defense and special teams scores 2 tds how the heck is it that VY wins that game?

What else can you call those games for a qb??? other than FREE WINS. They werent free for the other players who carried the team. they were FREE for VY.

Seriously guys...the "he is a winner" defense is the weakest thing i have ever heard. You can brush off a poor performance because you can say well he "led the team to a win". Frankly its horsecrap. Joe Montana was a leader. He was a leader because he was a great QB, plain and simple. He was smart and he made the right play almost every time. There arent too many 7-15 and 87 yds performances on his resume where HE got the credit for the win. People dont take you seriously in the NFL when you go 7-15 on a regular basis.

QBs that LEAD their teams to victory are the ones who have great games and their team wins. They have efficient mistake free games, and their team wins. Then when they have mediocre or poor games, their team loses. A qb that plays like crap and still eeks out a win, is flat out lucky, not a leader.

ever think that those running holes are opened up in some way b/c of defensive players being forced to stay at home due to the threat of VY running?

That is certainly a possible argument. But it also goes to stress my point. If a quarterback is really a good QB it is really easy to find the good things he does. There arent phantom numbers tossed around or theories about this or that. Trent Dilfer was highly regarded as a bum and is still regarded as a bum by most people. However he won a lot of games in tampa and he won a super bowl in baltimore. Now he has dissapeared and can't even start for the 49ers. Well did he have "it". Did he manage the game so well that the ravens won the SB? Or maybe he was just a guy who happened to be in the right place at the right time. For a qb to complete 7 passes in a game only and have only 4 carries(granted he did get 11 yds a carry) is hardly having a huge effect on the game IMO. i mean that is only 131 total yds. Pretty low numbers.

oh and btw the game where henry had 178 yds, VY had 7 carries for 9 yards.(although i think 2 were kneel downs) I am betting the defense wasnt really very afraid of him running.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Did you actually watch the game or are you basing it on a summary and a box score?

The Giants made 2 or 3 BONEHEAD plays on 4th down that would have ended drives, on plays where Young looked average at best. (Kiwi's inability to wrap up for fear of a flag and Frank Walker's late hit out of bounds)

Had the Giants not made those plays the drive would have ended for Tenn and his stats would have ended around 175yds passing and 50 rushing (roughly).

So the short answer is... Yes, Young made some nice plays when given a second chance, but his initial effort was average. Most quarterbacks in the NFL will succeed (or at least make a better play than the 1st) if given a second chance, and Young is no different.

So to answer your question about him "single handedly" winning the game... he had a lot of help from big blue's mistakes. I do think he will be a very good player someday, but lets not blow this win out of proportion and start carving his bust for Canton just yet.

Fantsy football is killing the sport.

Vince Young is a winner. Anyone watch the Rose Bowl last year? Need I say anymore about this guy's leadership and all apround skills?

Vince Young is going to be a special player.

No doubt and this thread will prove it.

This thread and message board would not exist without fantasy football. Fantasy football has increased the popularity of the NFL by 1,000,000 times. Don't dis fantasy football.

Fantasy football is killing the sport. They aren't the same but people try to make them the same. Apples to oranges.

Of course you're entitled to an opinion... even if it's completely wrong.

Answer me this, if you didn't play fantasy football, would you really care about a game like Oakland vs. Houston? Would you watch it? I wouldn't, but since I'm playing the Raider defense this week, I'll be watching it.