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Toby Gerhart (1 Viewer)

Bruno2

Footballguy
I'd like to get people's thoughts on Toby Gerhart. Living out west I watch a lot of PAC-10 games and this kid is just tearing up the conference. (1395 yards, 5.26 ave, 19 TD) He's a big bruising tailback, but I'm not sure how his skills will translate in the NFL. What do you guys think? Will he be drafted as a fullback/ short yardage RB? Or does he have the skillset to be a successful tailback at the NFL level?

For what its worth he is the all-time leading high school rusher in California history and third all-time leading rusher in the nation. Yes I know its high school but history shows he's an outstanding athlete (he also plays on Stanford's baseball team) and no flash in the pan. I'm just not conviced when he gets to the next level that he can adjust to the speed of the game, and he most likely won't be able to run people over like he does on the college level. He also doesn't catch a lot of passes, he only has 8 receptions, does that mean he has hands of stone? Or just the Stanford offense? I'm not sure. As a dynasty owner he's an interesting prospect, where does he rank with the other college RBs right now?

If there's another topic discussing Gerhart I apologize, I'm too lazy to use the search function.

 
As a fellow Pac-10 guy (Oregon homer), I've seen my fill of this kid and he's an absolute beast.

IMO, he falls somewhere between a Brandon Jacobs and a Mike Alstott. I think he translates well to the NFL.

 
Will he be drafted as a fullback/ short yardage RB? Or does he have the skillset to be a successful tailback at the NFL level?
I was pondering this very same question while watching the game yesterday. He actually reminds me a little of Daryl Johnston.Tough to say how he would translate to the NFL as a big tailback. fasteddie_21 mentioned Jacobs and Alstott, but then you also have the Ron Dayne's of the world. As of right now, I would project Gerhart as a FB to go somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round.
 
Will he be drafted as a fullback/ short yardage RB? Or does he have the skillset to be a successful tailback at the NFL level?
I was pondering this very same question while watching the game yesterday. He actually reminds me a little of Daryl Johnston.Tough to say how he would translate to the NFL as a big tailback. fasteddie_21 mentioned Jacobs and Alstott, but then you also have the Ron Dayne's of the world. As of right now, I would project Gerhart as a FB to go somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round.
I don't think he runs anything like Dayne. He always takes what's there, effectively uses his size and falls forward consistently. I view him somewhere between a bigger Sammy Morris with a bit more upside and a smaller Jamal Lewis (who was a total beast coming out of TN) with less upside. I think he will be seen as RB who can see some FB sets. I seem him taken right about where a similar back- Shonn Greene- went this year; tail end of round two, top of round three. I think he can fit on a lot of teams; from the Saints and Patriots who like to spread it out, where you are forced to play a lot of nickel to a physical running team like Tennessee who uses him as a compliment to Johnson.
 
He has at least 6 runs of 25+ yards, has gotten at least 20 carries in every game but 1 (17 in that one), not fumbles in 262 carries and has not averaged less that 4.4 ypc in any single game this year.

Impressive stuff.

 
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runs too upright
I challenge you to actually watch him run. You see him running upright a lot because he is in a dead sprint to the end zone, on most highlight reels.Gerhart does a great job of lowering his pad level and absorbing the hit. He does not go down on the first hit either.Watch him again and you will see he does not run too upright.
 
Will he be drafted as a fullback/ short yardage RB? Or does he have the skillset to be a successful tailback at the NFL level?
I was pondering this very same question while watching the game yesterday. He actually reminds me a little of Daryl Johnston.Tough to say how he would translate to the NFL as a big tailback. fasteddie_21 mentioned Jacobs and Alstott, but then you also have the Ron Dayne's of the world. As of right now, I would project Gerhart as a FB to go somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round.
I don't think he runs anything like Dayne.
I wasn't comparing his running style. I was simply making a "big back" reference.
 
Will he be drafted as a fullback/ short yardage RB? Or does he have the skillset to be a successful tailback at the NFL level?
I was pondering this very same question while watching the game yesterday. He actually reminds me a little of Daryl Johnston.Tough to say how he would translate to the NFL as a big tailback. fasteddie_21 mentioned Jacobs and Alstott, but then you also have the Ron Dayne's of the world. As of right now, I would project Gerhart as a FB to go somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round.
This is actually spot on. I love the guy in college but he's a bit too lumbering to be considered a top end back. He's not super shifty or quick around the line, he picks his way through holes, which works now and gives the illusion of great vision however in the pros it probably equals a yard and a half a carry. Not sure what his blocking skills are like but a serviceable fullback would definitely be a more realistic outlook.
 
PAC-10 guy here.

Gerhart is a beast for sure. add his O-line, his bruiser fullback, and you have a hell of a road grader!

i think he will be pretty solid in the NFL. and Alstott kinda guy. maybe a little shiftier.

 
He reminds me a lot of Larry Csonka, a little bit of Craig James. He seems to have the toughness of a John Riggins or Mike Alstott, but also has the athleticism of a Paul Hornung.

 
Mr. Retukes said:
Chase Stuart said:
He reminds me a lot of Larry Csonka, a little bit of Craig James. He seems to have the toughness of a John Riggins or Mike Alstott, but also has the athleticism of a Paul Hornung.
You couldn't squeeze in a Brad Hoover reference there??
I detect a little sarcasm....Don't forget Heath Evans and Brian Leonard. Seriously though, Alstott was the first comparison that naturally came to mind, but Gerhart is not as big as him. I think if Gerhart gets drafted by a good team like Pittsburgh or New England he has a shot at the very least of splitting carries at tailback.
 
Good article from last year with the "Great White Hope" spin, though it's not specifically about Gerhart.

Many of us watch sports not caring if the men on the field are purple or magenta, as long as they produce. But watch sports long enough and you inevitably notice trends and rarities. One of them is that white tailbacks at the college and professional level have become virtually nonexistent.

In 2007, just 13 of the top 100 rushers in the Football Bowl Subdivision were white. The SEC and Pac-10 each have just one white starting tailback in their respective leagues, Vanderbilt's Jared Hawkins and Stanford's Toby Gerhart.

In the NFL, white tailbacks are even scarcer. Not one white player starts at tailback on any of the NFL's 32 teams. The last time a white tailback was taken in the first round of the NFL draft was 1974, when the Los Angeles Rams selected Penn State's John Cappelletti with the 11th overall pick.

With such a deeply entrenched trend, you wonder if ESPN college football analyst Craig James might be the last white player to rush for more than 1,000 yards in the NFL or if former Washington Redskins legend John Riggins will be the last white feature back to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

"Fans write me all the time calling me 'The Great White Hope,'" said James, who ran for 1,227 yards with the New England Patriots during the 1985 season. "One of these days, someone will come along."

It's difficult to tell whether the lack of white tailbacks is a result of nature or nurture. Are white athletes pursuing or being pushed into other positions because they're intimidated by the racial dynamics? Or is there something to the controversial theory that this is the merely the unraveling of genetic trends?

The answer is maybe … and maybe.

There's no doubt racial discrimination and exclusionist Jim Crow policies helped usher in "position profiling" in both the NFL and college football. For a long period of time, blacks were stereotyped as being intellectually incapable of playing certain positions, namely quarterback.

One position where African-Americans were welcomed was running back. After the NFL lifted its freeze on black players in 1946, one of the first players to reintegrate was Kenny Washington, a standout running back from UCLA. In his three NFL seasons, Washington averaged 6.1 yards per carry and was a top-five rusher in his second season.

Even then the NFL was a copycat league. After Washington and Marion Motley, the Hall of Famer who joined Cleveland in the All-America Football Conference in 1946 and averaged 5.7 yards per carry in his career, a wave of black runners entered the league in the 1950s and '60s.

Suddenly the black running back was en vogue. The dynamics of the position had changed dramatically, with speed in the backfield becoming a major emphasis. And as time passed, white feature backs became a rare sight.

Certainly some white tailbacks have had successful NFL careers after the explosion of black players, but not many. Mike Alstott, one of the few fullbacks given feature back responsibilities, retired as the Tampa Bay Bucs' all-time leader in touchdowns (71) and the No. 2 rusher in team history (5,088). In 1999, the six-time Pro Bowler was 51 yards away from the 1,000-yard mark, finishing with a career-best 949 rushing yards. Twice, Alstott led Tampa Bay in rushing.

But Alstott has proved to be little more than an aberration among feature backs. The last team to win the Super Bowl with a white back leading the team in rushing yards was the 1983 Redskins with Riggins. A white back hasn't led the NFL in rushing since Green Bay's Jim Taylor in 1962. The last white player to lead his NFL team in rushing was Nick Goings, with the Carolina Panthers in 2004.

"I don't ever want to put a spin on it and say it's profiling," said Floyd Keith, the executive director of the Black Coaches Association. "I think it has a lot to do with the quality of player."

But there is evidence -- some of it anecdotal -- to suggest there is a degree of profiling when it comes to white runners.

"It used to be for the athletes playing in high school, if you were African-American and playing quarterback, the assumption was they were going to put you at wide receiver," James said. "That trend has been reversed and there's not a perception [African-Americans] can't play quarterback, but there is a perception that if you're a white guy and a running back, you need to move your position."

Gerhart, a junior at Stanford, said opponents used to express surprise when they realized he was the feature back.

"There were definitely times after games, the DBs, safeties or linebackers would say, 'God man, you can move for a white guy,'" said Gerhart, who ranks 15th in the nation in rushing yards among FBS players. "Even at the college level, my freshman year I played some and after they tackled me, they'd say, 'Man, you run good for a white guy' or 'You're my favorite white running back.'"

Recently, according to Gerhart, one of his friends was playing an NCAA video game and created a player with Gerhart's speed and dimensions (6-foot-2, 230 pounds, 4.43 in the 40-yard dash). When his friend made the player white, the game automatically described the video version of Gerhart as "power back." When his friend changed the skin color to black, he became an "all-purpose back."

"Maybe it's just basic stereotypes," Gerhart said. "Even now you're described as a 'power back.' They still discredit speed."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080926I'll go on record as saying Gerhart can absolutely be successful at the next level as a feature tailback. He's fast enough, and his power is devastating. How do you not love a guy who runs over anything in his path? That style won't make for a very long career, but God bless him.

 
I think that Brock Forsey is a little bit sad that in another couple of years he's no longer going to be the answer to the trivia question.

 
Good article from last year with the "Great White Hope" spin, though it's not specifically about Gerhart.

I'll go on record as saying Gerhart can absolutely be successful at the next level as a feature tailback. He's fast enough, and his power is devastating. How do you not love a guy who runs over anything in his path? That style won't make for a very long career, but God bless him.
he's fast enough (although i call bull#### on him running a 4.43), but his agility is well below average relative to starting RBs in the NFL right now. Though he's the closest thing to the Great White Hope as there's been in a while imo.
 
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I was going to say that he reminds me of a little bigger Shonn Greene but then I realized Greene is black.

 
I see Alstott when I see him play. Hope he lands in the right situation because I definitely think he can be productive as a tailback in the league.

I think he'd be a nice fit in Seattle to pair with Forsett.

 
as a ND homer, last night was the first I have seen this kid run. I was skeptical at first, and I stereotyped him, beforehand....typical white, slow, plodding Tommy vardell type.

what I saw last night was shiftiness, nice change of direction, great balance, great strength, stamina, always falling forward. That kids a stud.

ND D is not that great, however, that kid can play at the next level. Theres a spot for him in the NFL. would love to see him as an H Back

 
If he won the heisman would he be te first white RB to do so ....
Well there was Charles White USC in 1979, but i don't think thats what you meant. The last was John Cappelletti 1973. Prior to Ernie Davis 1961, the First African American to win the Heisman, I assume they were all white.
 
as a ND homer, last night was the first I have seen this kid run. I was skeptical at first, and I stereotyped him, beforehand....typical white, slow, plodding Tommy vardell type.what I saw last night was shiftiness, nice change of direction, great balance, great strength, stamina, always falling forward. That kids a stud.ND D is not that great, however, that kid can play at the next level. Theres a spot for him in the NFL. would love to see him as an H Back
Vardell wasn't slow and plodding. He had no wiggle thats why he failed at the next level. He also was a specialist at the NCAA level so what do you expect of a guy who was only that in college. Other white backs were very good to good college players ie Leonard and Hester. He has been dominating. To be good to very good you at least need to be dominating at the NCAA level. Even then there are no guarantees ie Dayne, Blair Thomas.
 
The scouts will have a tough time forecasting TG's NFL role, but my lord, this kid is, imo, by a good margin...the most dominating offensive force in college football. I wasn't sold until I watched him break 40 tackles and run over defender after defender versus Notre Dame. This isn't much of a stretch, you rarely see a defense get run over like Notre Dame did versus TG. After noticing that I had a few Stanford games Tivo'ed, I watched TG do it again...simply put, TG is a stud, and should be the offensive favorite for the Heisman Trophy.. In a perfect/logical world, the top two are Suh from Nebraska, and Gerhart. Don't get me wrong, Mark Ingram has been great, and Colt McCoy deserves a few votes as well, but Gerhart does the most given his surrounding talent.

As for his NFL position...he will be what Brian Leanord was supposed to be, an HB/FBV hybrid that DOES scare/intimidate/tire NFL defenses. If an NFL teams wants to convert him to LB, I have no doubt he has pro-bowl potential burried there as well...

 
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Glanced through the thread. I realize the sample size is probably small but how well does he pass block?

 
While I love his toughness and vision, I actually don't think he'll be much more than a goal line FB in the pros. He'll get killed going up against bigger tougher linebackers. I don't know what his speed is like, but he doesn't look like a burner.

 
he won't play in the nfl. he will be drafted to play baseball and play that sport. just my opinion.
He leaned that way out of high school according to some, though I don't think he's ever been quoted preferring either sport. Last year, when he was eligible for the baseball draft, he suggested a high pick and a big bonus would send him into the minors. He basically told MLB after a nice college WS effort, here's your chance, daft me, sign me right, and I'll play baseball. He went undrafted. His dad thought they might have put too much pressure on baseball teams to take him "high in the draft or else", and otherwise he would have been drafted. Maybe. Maybe he's not that great of a baseball prospect though. In 55 games last year he hit .288 with 7 homeruns and had some defensive struggles with the glove. The year before that he batted .240 with 7 more HRs. Not exactly what you seek from a 240 pound centerfielderr. He recently said he was getting ready for the Combine (working on his 40 time). I'm 95% certain he's going to the NFL. Here's a recent quote:
TV: Will you continue playing baseball this year? TG: I think so. Not 100 percent certain yet, but it's gonna be dependent upon where my draft stock is for the NFL draft. So, once the bowl game is done, I'll get evaluated, and if it's high enough then I'll just give up baseball and train for the combine and shoot for professional football.
I'm not sure what "high enough" is for him but that's a major statement considering he loves playing baseball for a championship caliber team in the outfield with his best friend and roommate.
 
Looks like Dayne a little which means he is fast enough for college but too slow for the NFL. I think he could work well between the tackles however as vision is more important that speed in those settings.

 
Looks like Dayne a little which means he is fast enough for college but too slow for the NFL. I think he could work well between the tackles however as vision is more important that speed in those settings.
Dayne was never the thumper Toby is. Dayne was soft for his size. He relied on his agility not his size. Toby has decent lateral skills but he runs with power and has always relished contact.
 
Looks like Dayne a little which means he is fast enough for college but too slow for the NFL. I think he could work well between the tackles however as vision is more important that speed in those settings.
Dayne was never the thumper Toby is. Dayne was soft for his size. He relied on his agility not his size. Toby has decent lateral skills but he runs with power and has always relished contact.
:) Two completely different running styles and Gerhart's is far more conducive to the NFL.
 
I have only seen highlights, but he sure reminds me of Alstott (yes, I'm aware both are white, that is not the reason why he reminds me of him). Alstott had a very good 10 yr NFL career. I don't see why he can't be similar to Mike.

Alstott Career Stats:

Rush 1359 for 5088

Rec 305 for 2284

71 Career TDs

Pretty damn impressive. Tied for 75th all time in TDs. In the top 200 all time in yards from scrimmage.

 
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There aren't many power backs in the NFL any more and I'm sure there are a lot of teams looking at Toby to team him with a speedster.

 
I watched most of the bowl game against OK and thought he did a decent job running in space but not with much power between the tackles as he was probably too upright and didn't hit the hole.

To me, it seemed that he got up to "full speed" (which wasn't great) pretty quickly, especially on a few outside runs. He definitely ran hard once he was past the line of scrimmage and had a nose for the end zone. I wasn't paying attention to his blocking ability although I'd assume Harbaugh (being a QB) probably puts a lot of emphasis on that aspect.

I think a more valid recent comparison based on size and ability is Beanie Wells.

I could see him being a 2nd/3rd round pick in an RBBC situation matched up with a smaller 3rd back on a team.

 
Looks like Dayne a little which means he is fast enough for college but too slow for the NFL. I think he could work well between the tackles however as vision is more important that speed in those settings.
Dayne was never the thumper Toby is. Dayne was soft for his size. He relied on his agility not his size. Toby has decent lateral skills but he runs with power and has always relished contact.
:lol: Two completely different running styles and Gerhart's is far more conducive to the NFL.
I don't agree with either statement.
 
I was at the game yesterday. Not his best outing, but Oklahoma has a good rushing D highlighted by DT Gerald McCoy and they were able to sell out against the run because Andrew Luck's backup isn't much of a passing threat.

I've gone on record as saying Toby is somewhere between a 2nd-4th round value in the NFL draft. I think he will be most effective getting 10-15 carries per game in a committee with a quick back like Sproles or Washington. He's a big kid. Very thick lower body. Routinely bounces off of arm tackles. Always keeps his legs churning. What separates him from the typical 230+ pound college plodder is his quickness. He's not going to break anyone's ankles in the secondary, but he can shift his weight and make quick adjustments behind the line of scrimmage. He's a lot more nimble than most people realize. I don't agree with most of the comparisons I've heard (Alsott, Greene, Dayne, etc). I don't see any recent players who offer a perfect parallel. I would say he's comparable to a less gifted Jamal Lewis. Not quite as big. Not quite as fast. Similar strengths, weaknesses, and playing style.

I can't see anyone drafting him ahead of the top 4 backs in the draft (Mathews, Spiller, Best, Dwyer). I think he has a chance to be the fifth back drafted though. I watched some of the Tennessee game last night and came away thinking Toby is definitely > Hardesty.

 
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Will he be drafted as a fullback/ short yardage RB? Or does he have the skillset to be a successful tailback at the NFL level?
I was pondering this very same question while watching the game yesterday. He actually reminds me a little of Daryl Johnston.Tough to say how he would translate to the NFL as a big tailback. fasteddie_21 mentioned Jacobs and Alstott, but then you also have the Ron Dayne's of the world. As of right now, I would project Gerhart as a FB to go somewhere in the 3rd or 4th round.
I don't think he runs anything like Dayne. He always takes what's there, effectively uses his size and falls forward consistently. I view him somewhere between a bigger Sammy Morris with a bit more upside and a smaller Jamal Lewis (who was a total beast coming out of TN) with less upside. I think he will be seen as RB who can see some FB sets. I seem him taken right about where a similar back- Shonn Greene- went this year; tail end of round two, top of round three. I think he can fit on a lot of teams; from the Saints and Patriots who like to spread it out, where you are forced to play a lot of nickel to a physical running team like Tennessee who uses him as a compliment to Johnson.
Funny I was thinking Shonn Greene too.There are a lot of references to melanin content here; I think the greater prejudice is towards any Pac10 RB not from USC or Oregon. Maybe throw in Or St. since Steven Jackson went there in 2004, but Gerhart isn't that much of a dominator.Wait - Greene is 5'11" 235. SJax is 6'2" 235. Gerhart is 6'1" 235.Rushing only:743/3625/39 TD = SJax at "inferior" Or. St.671/3522/43 TD = Gerhart at "inferior" StanfordSuch stat based comparisons are silly, right????
 
The guy that I find most comparable, insofar as NFL guys are concerned, is Marion Butts. Patient at the point of attack with nice vision, and attacks with a vengeance once he chooses his spot.

I think, in the right place at the right time, Gerhart could put up a big season or two. But I can't see him having much of a shelf life without a major retooling of his game.

 
How about Bettis? Is the style similar?

I have not seen a lot of Gerhart's games, so the next statement may (will) sound ludicrous, but what little I have seen of him, I can see a little Jerome in the runs.

 
The guy that I find most comparable, insofar as NFL guys are concerned, is Marion Butts. Patient at the point of attack with nice vision, and attacks with a vengeance once he chooses his spot.I think, in the right place at the right time, Gerhart could put up a big season or two. But I can't see him having much of a shelf life without a major retooling of his game.
Well, having just went and checked out more of his runs .. no. Nothing like Bettis. Faster. Much faster. Damn, what did I see the first time? (Cough) okay, move on. Nothing to see here. :thumbdown:
 

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