Today's Offensive Systems (1 Viewer)

[dgreen]

The IDP threads discussing the different schemes had me wondering about offensive systems.

Walsh's "West Coast Offense" is well-documented and we know of his disciples like Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan, and many more.

Coryell's "West Coast Offense" is also well-documented with guys like Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Mike Martz, Al Saunders, and Cam Cameron.

What else is there? Does Parcells have his own tree? Do Charlie Weiss and Sean Peyton run something different than Walsh's and Coryell's disciples? Are there any other established trees or are there some just sprouting up?

 

[Doug B]

Good article here. They menton an "Ehrhardt-Perkins" system as a separate system in current NFL use. Run-&-Shoot is also mentioned, though not used in the pros anymore as an exclusive system.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

"Zone Blocking" or Denver/ShanahanA Gibbs running system but their passing is WCO

 

[Sidewinder16]

What else is there? Does Parcells have his own tree? Do Charlie Weiss and Sean Peyton run something different than Walsh's and Coryell's disciples? Are there any other established trees or are there some just sprouting up?

Here's a Wiki article on NFL coaching trees.

 

[DawnBTVS]

One could make the argument that all teams still use "Run and Shoot" concepts... but not the actual "Run and Shoot" football method prevalent in the early to mid 1990's.

- Choice Routes (WR makes the read based on the defensive coverage)

- Motion

- Spread Formations (4 WR and 5 WR sets)

 

[dgreen]

Does this look right?

Walsh WCO

Philadelphia - Andy Reid

Green Bay - Mike McCarthy

Minnesota - Brad Childress

Tampa Bay - Jon Gruden

Washington - Jim Zorn and the mystery HC

Seattle - Mike Holmgren

Houston - Gary Kubiak

Tennessee - Mike Heimerdinger

Denver - Mike Shanahan

Coryell

Dallas - Jason Garrett

St. Louis - Al Saunders

San Francisco - Mike Martz

Baltimore - Cam Cameron

San Diego - Norv Turner

Erhardt-Perkins

New York Giants - Tom Coughlin

New Orleans - Sean Peyton

New England - Josh McDaniels - This one seems hard to put here since the EP is also referred to as "smashmouth" football. But, McDaniels is linked to Belichick who is linked to Parcells.

Miami - Parcells is in charge now.

Buffalo - **** Jauron is from Parcells.

Then there's a bunch that I'm not sure where to put them

Chicago

Detroit

Carolina

Atlanta

Arizona

New York Jets

Indianapolis

Jacksonville

Pittsburgh

Cincinnati

Cleveland

Oakland

Kansas City

 

[dgreen]

What else is there? Does Parcells have his own tree? Do Charlie Weiss and Sean Peyton run something different than Walsh's and Coryell's disciples? Are there any other established trees or are there some just sprouting up?

Here's a Wiki article on NFL coaching trees.

The tough part about that is a lot of those are defensive guys, like most of the Schottenheimer tree. I'm not sure what offense they use.

 

[Tanner9919]

Dallas - Does Garrett run EP from his Parcells influence or Coryell from his Zampese influence?

Coryell/Zampese.

 

[Bri]

**successful** 3 WR set, Spurrier in USFL, Gibbs was next in NFL

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The colts play tom moore's O.

Which the lions ran afte the run n shoot.

 

[dgreen]

The colts play tom moore's O.Which the lions ran afte the run n shoot.

Is Moore influenced by anyone or does he run his own thing? He spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh under Noll.

 

[Doug B]

Some systems seem to be hybrids, too. I don't think any team today runs exactly the offense that the early-80s Chargers or Niners ran. Stuff has been added or taken away by different coaches (the Gibbs zone-blocking schemes being a prime example).

Also, the Run-&-Shoot had a definite influence on both pro and college offenses though it's rarely run in a pure form anymore. Dawn in post #5 above has got it right.

While Joe Gibbs was on the Coryell tree, I always thought the use of the H-back kind of defined the Gibbs' offenses apart from Air Coryell. Jeff Fisher used to run an offense like that in the mid-to-late 90s ... not sure what tree Norm Chow is from. Hard to tell when the Titans' offense funnels through Vince Young.

 

[dgreen]

Some systems seem to be hybrids, too. I don't think any team today runs exactly the offense that the early-80s Chargers or Niners ran. Stuff has been added or taken away by different coaches (the Gibbs zone-blocking schemes being a prime example).Also, the Run-&-Shoot had a definite influence on both pro and college offenses though it's rarely run in a pure form anymore. Dawn in post #5 above has got it right.While Joe Gibbs was on the Coryell tree, I always thought the use of the H-back kind of defined the Gibbs' offenses apart from Air Coryell. Jeff Fisher used to run an offense like that in the mid-to-late 90s ... not sure what tree Norm Chow is from. Hard to tell when the Titans' offense funnels through Vince Young.

I agree things have evolved and mixed. But, what does it take to be considered a new offense? For example, I wouldn't say Gibbs' h-back gave him a new offense, it was just an added wrinkle. Joe Gibbs is also known for shifting and motion and bunch formations. Is that stuff he created, too? If so, those things might be bigger signs of a different offense. Alex Gibbs' zone run blocking might be something more along the lines of being worthy of naming a new system, too, but the passing game in Denver remained WC.

 

[Doug B]

The colts play tom moore's O.Which the lions ran afte the run n shoot.

Is Moore influenced by anyone or does he run his own thing? He spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh under Noll.

It looks to me like Moore's current system is a gradually-built custom job, with heavy influence of the Run-and-Shoot-based Silver Stretch offense from when he was in Detroit. It is noteworthy that his offenses have often produced elite WRs (John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Louis Lipps, Herman Moore, Marvin Harrison, etc.) even with highly-variable QB play (from Bradshaw and Manning down to Mark Malone, Cliff Stoudt, Eric Kramer, Scott Mitchell, etc.).

 

[dgreen]

The colts play tom moore's O.Which the lions ran afte the run n shoot.

Is Moore influenced by anyone or does he run his own thing? He spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh under Noll.

It looks to me like Moore's current system is a gradually-built custom job, with heavy influence of the Run-and-Shoot-based Silver Stretch offense from when he was in Detroit. It is noteworthy that his offenses have often produced elite WRs (John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Louis Lipps, Herman Moore, Marvin Harrison, etc.) even with highly-variable QB play (from Bradshaw and Manning down to Mark Malone, Cliff Stoudt, Eric Kramer, Scott Mitchell, etc.).

His offense definitely seems to value shotgun, no huddle, finding the play that best works against a given D (Spurrier?), and a good receiving RB that can also pick up tough yards. It doesn't seem to favor short passes over deep passes or deep passes over short passes. It uses the whole field in the passing game.

 

[Despyzer]

When you consider that Walsh was also a Coryell disciple, doesn't it blow your mind that Don isn't in the Hall of Fame?

 

[dgreen]

When you consider that Walsh was also a Coryell disciple, doesn't it blow your mind that Don isn't in the Hall of Fame?

Walsh came from Paul Brown.Coryell came from Sid Gillman.But, I agree that Coryell probably deserves more consideration than he gets.

 

[Despyzer]

When you consider that Walsh was also a Coryell disciple, doesn't it blow your mind that Don isn't in the Hall of Fame?

Walsh came from Paul Brown.

Walsh was an assistant coach under Coryell. Coryell was the very first offensive strategist to utilize throwing to points on a field instead of to a receiver. There would be no WCO without it.

 

[Despyzer]

Coryell came from Sid Gillman.

Coryell never worked for Gillman. Coryell just happened to be coaching a college team in the same town.

 

[dgreen]

When you consider that Walsh was also a Coryell disciple, doesn't it blow your mind that Don isn't in the Hall of Fame?

Walsh came from Paul Brown.

Walsh was an assistant coach under Coryell. Coryell was the very first offensive strategist to utilize throwing to points on a field instead of to a receiver. There would be no WCO without it.

Where was Walsh a Coryell assistant? Walsh was an assistant under Brown in Cincinnati.

Coryell came from Sid Gillman.

Coryell never worked for Gillman. Coryell just happened to be coaching a college team in the same town.

Yeah, he didn't work for him. Poor wording on my part. Maybe saying Coryell was inspired by Gillman is more accurate?

 

[Despyzer]

Where was Walsh a Coryell assistant?

My mistake. Walsh was under Tommy Protho when he was a coach for the Chargers. Nonetheless, Walsh borrowed extensively from Coryell's system.

 

[dgreen]

Where was Walsh a Coryell assistant?

My mistake. Walsh was under Tommy Protho when he was a coach for the Chargers. Nonetheless, Walsh borrowed extensively from Coryell's system.

Could be. I read that Walsh was taught Gillman's system when he was assistant under Al Davis in Oakland.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Where was Walsh a Coryell assistant?

My mistake. Walsh was under Tommy Protho when he was a coach for the Chargers. Nonetheless, Walsh borrowed extensively from Coryell's system.

Could be. I read that Walsh was taught Gillman's system when he was assistant under Al Davis in Oakland.

This was always my understanding as well.

 

[obxlegends]

Where was Walsh a Coryell assistant?

My mistake. Walsh was under Tommy Protho when he was a coach for the Chargers. Nonetheless, Walsh borrowed extensively from Coryell's system.

Could be. I read that Walsh was taught Gillman's system when he was assistant under Al Davis in Oakland.

This was always my understanding as well.

I found this "Don Coryell, the coach at San Diego State University when Gillman was coaching the San Diego Chargers, would bring his team to Chargers' practices to watch how Gillman ran his practices. Coryell went on to coach in the NFL, and some of his assistants, influenced by the Gillman style, included coaches Joe Gibbs , Ernie Zampese and Russ A. Molzahn."

 

[Gamese7en]

There is no mention of Tom Landry and his disciples: **** Nolan ( taking the 49ers to 2 straight NFC Championship games ), Dan Reeves ( 4 Super Bowl appearances ), Mike Ditka ( 1 Super Bowl win ).

 

[dgreen]

There is no mention of Tom Landry and his disciples: **** Nolan ( taking the 49ers to 2 straight NFC Championship games ), Dan Reeves ( 4 Super Bowl appearances ), Mike Ditka ( 1 Super Bowl win ).

We're talking offensive systems here, not just coaching lineage. What offensive system did Landry lead to? The same would go for Schottenheimer. He has a large line of coaches, but they tend to be defensive.

 

[dgreen]

Where was Walsh a Coryell assistant?

My mistake. Walsh was under Tommy Protho when he was a coach for the Chargers. Nonetheless, Walsh borrowed extensively from Coryell's system.

Could be. I read that Walsh was taught Gillman's system when he was assistant under Al Davis in Oakland.

This was always my understanding as well.

I found this "Don Coryell, the coach at San Diego State University when Gillman was coaching the San Diego Chargers, would bring his team to Chargers' practices to watch how Gillman ran his practices. Coryell went on to coach in the NFL, and some of his assistants, influenced by the Gillman style, included coaches Joe Gibbs , Ernie Zampese and Russ A. Molzahn."

Who's Russ Molzahn?

 

[Despyzer]

What offensive system did Landry lead to?

Although it's not a system, per se, Landry was the first coach to take the offensive playcalling out of the quarterback's hands. I believe he may have also been the first to "script" plays for the beginning of the game, but I'm not positive about that.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

What offensive system did Landry lead to?

Although it's not a system, per se, Landry was the first coach to take the offensive playcalling out of the quarterback's hands. I believe he may have also been the first to "script" plays for the beginning of the game, but I'm not positive about that.

I thought that (scripting) was walsh.

 

[Despyzer]

I thought that (scripting) was walsh.

You could be right. For some reason I thought it was Landry.