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Tom Brady and New England Split (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Some of this is in game thread. But it's probably worth it's own discussion.

There was talk about analyzing the post game meeting with Brady and Belichick.

Nobody needed a post game meeting to determine that. There are 3 books out currently that detail the relationship.

They got along enough. 

I thing Gurerrero nailed it. In the end, constantly ragging on your Hall of Fame QB as if he were Johnny Foxboro in high school just wears thin.  

That plus Brady looking around the league at teams realizing the importance of giving the most important player on the team pieces to work with while your front office keeps handing you deck furniture to throw to. 

He made a business decision. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
On the flip side, I see people gleefully ripping New England letting Brady get away as equal to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth calling the worst move in sports history.

I think that's ridiculous. 

Letting a 42 year old QB go is hardly controversial. Belichick did what he always did and put system over players. He played the odds.

For years, it had worked out in his favor. This time clearly it did not. 

But it's easy to see why he chose to go with the younger QB.

I'm guessing lots of Steelers fans right now are wishing their team had chosen a similar path. 

 

Boston

Footballguy
On the flip side, I see people gleefully ripping New England letting Brady get away as equal to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth calling the worst move in sports history.

I think that's ridiculous. 

Letting a 42 year old QB go is hardly controversial. Belichick did what he always did and put system over players. He played the odds.

For years, it had worked out in his favor. This time clearly it did not. 

But it's easy to see why he chose to go with the younger QB.

I'm guessing lots of Steelers fans right now are wishing their team had chosen a similar path. 


This touches on the one area that while discussed does not get enough discussion...what Brady is doing at his age is pure insanity, it makes no sense at all because it has never been done before...as a huge Brady supporter I had no issues with the Pats parting ways with him because 99.9% of the time that is the correct move for a franchise...this is the .01% where it did not work out and is just further evidence that Brady is the greatest (and in many ways most different) of all time...the issue I have with the Pats was they had to go with Cam last year and even though they are in very good shape with Mac they got real lucky with him because by not trading up they could have easily lost him to another team and if that had happened this franchise would be bad shape right...overall, I think BB and Brady have some issues with the breakup but I think that is normal for this type of scenario and I do think it will be forgotten pretty quickly because I don't think it is anything other then the business-side of football...now, about that O-line...  

 
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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This touches on the one area that while discussed does not get enough discussion...what Brady is doing at his age is pure insanity, it makes no sense at all because it has never been done before...as a huge Brady supporter I had no issues with the Pats parting ways with him because 99.9% of the time that is the correct move for a franchise...this is the .01% where it did not work out and is just further evidence that Brady is the greatest (and in many ways most different) of all time...the issue I have with the Pats was they had to go with Cam last year and even though they are in very good shape with Mac they got real lucky with him because by not trading up they could have easily lost him to another team and if that had happened this franchise would be bad shape right...overall, I think BB and Brady have some issues with the breakup but I think that is normal for this type of scenario and I do think it will be forgotten pretty quickly because I don't think it is anything other then the business-side of football...now, about that O-line...  


Agreed. Brady makes it look easy to the point I think people forget how insane this is. 

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
As I just posted in the other thread, Brady was no longer a Patriot because BB felt Tom was on the decline and would be unplayable in short order. That’s it. As someone already posted, for 99.9999% of NFL players over the history of the league, that was the case. Brady broke the mold playing this well this long. And had Brady stayed with NE, they would still have been a mediocre team because they are in a phase with some mediocre players. 

 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
I think Brady is in a great situation for himself. I do not see the Pats as SB contenders even with Brady at QB.

I think it was the right move for both. Pats needed to get started on their rebuild and Brady got to go to a team that was ready instead. 
 

I think they parted amicably. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
As I just posted in the other thread, Brady was no longer a Patriot because BB felt Tom was on the decline and would be unplayable in short order. That’s it. As someone already posted, for 99.9999% of NFL players over the history of the league, that was the case. Brady broke the mold playing this well this long. And had Brady stayed with NE, they would still have been a mediocre team because they are in a phase with some mediocre players. 


That may be the case for Belichick.

I don't have the definitive answer apparently like you do ;)  but my opinion is Brady no longer is a Patriot because he wanted to be somewhere where the team seemed able to get him weapons to win. And a coach that understood at some point, the disrespect eventually wears thin. 

One thing we do agree on is if if Brady had stayed in New England, I'm not sure they'd be much better. Brady wasn't able to overcome that abysmal roster in 2019. He didn't suddenly remember how to play Football in 2020. He went to a team that surrounded him with talent. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I think Brady is in a great situation for himself. I do not see the Pats as SB contenders even with Brady at QB.

I think it was the right move for both. Pats needed to get started on their rebuild and Brady got to go to a team that was ready instead. 
 

I think they parted amicably. 


That's a great point, @STEADYMOBBIN 22

It seems we as society have to declare a "winner" for everything. Especially in "who won the divorce?" stuff like this. It's fun for people to laugh at Belichick and say they lost and Brady won and all that. 

In five years, I bet we see this quite a bit differently if Jones is who they think he is. 

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
That may be the case for Belichick.

I don't have the definitive answer apparently like you do ;)  but my opinion is Brady no longer is a Patriot because he wanted to be somewhere where the team seemed able to get him weapons to win. And a coach that understood at some point, the disrespect eventually wears thin. 

One thing we do agree on is if if Brady had stayed in New England, I'm not sure they'd be much better. Brady wasn't able to overcome that abysmal roster in 2019. He didn't suddenly remember how to play Football in 2020. He went to a team that surrounded him with talent. 
I'm not picking sides, but I have kept pretty close to what has been reported on all of this. Mind you, I realize that doesn't make it accurate.

By all accounts, Brady was mentally checked out in 2019. He wasn't happy, didn't want to be there anymore, and from plenty of reports he was no longer well liked in the locker room. He was said to have been moody, distant, and no longer engaged with his teammates. What the general public didn't know is he was also injured (knee). The last part is what contributed to Brady looking terrible the end of 2019 and what prompted people to wonder if he still had it.

Say what you want about NE not having good skill position players, they at least made an effort to bring in help. In the span of a year or two, they traded for Brandin Cooks and Trent Brown. They drafted Sony Michel, Isaiah Wynn, and N'Keal Harry in the first round. They signed Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown. They added Mohamad Sanu (who Brady asked them to go get). That's two OT, a RB, and 5 WR. They also had come to an agreement with Jared Cook at TE, but he would not sign unless Gronk had retired (and thus never did as Gronk waited another month to retire). 

So sure, NE had "an abysmal roster" in 2019 . . . but not for lack of trying. That same roster earlier in the year had Edelman (who got dinged up), AB (who had a civil suit in the works before he evened signed), and Gordon (suspended again) on it and added Sanu (who got hurt after one game on the team). Had they been able to roll those guys out every week, that should have been more than sufficient to win games with the defense they had that season.

Bottom line, the 2019 season didn't work out. It happens. No one was happy and the parties involved agreed it was best to break up rather they stay together. It happens. Brady went to a better team in Tampa. Things broke just the right way for them last year and they won the SB. NE was going to go through a rebuild with or without Brady as their recent draft picks had mostly flamed out. That happens too. Brady ended up in a better place (went to a better team) while BB had to try to right the ship (had a mediocre talent base to work with).

NE looks like they have found their QB of the future, so we will have to wait and see if BB can build a team around him (and what approach he takes to team building, player motivation, salary cap and roster management, drafting, etc.).

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I'm not picking sides, but I have kept pretty close to what has been reported on all of this. Mind you, I realize that doesn't make it accurate.

By all accounts, Brady was mentally checked out in 2019. He wasn't happy, didn't want to be there anymore, and from plenty of reports he was no longer well liked in the locker room. He was said to have been moody, distant, and no longer engaged with his teammates. What the general public didn't know is he was also injured (knee). The last part is what contributed to Brady looking terrible the end of 2019 and what prompted people to wonder if he still had it.

Say what you want about NE not having good skill position players, they at least made an effort to bring in help. In the span of a year or two, they traded for Brandin Cooks and Trent Brown. They drafted Sony Michel, Isaiah Wynn, and N'Keal Harry in the first round. They signed Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown. They added Mohamad Sanu (who Brady asked them to go get). That's two OT, a RB, and 5 WR. They also had come to an agreement with Jared Cook at TE, but he would not sign unless Gronk had retired (and thus never did as Gronk waited another month to retire). 

So sure, NE had "an abysmal roster" in 2019 . . . but not for lack of trying. That same roster earlier in the year had Edelman (who got dinged up), AB (who had a civil suit in the works before he evened signed), and Gordon (suspended again) on it and added Sanu (who got hurt after one game on the team). Had they been able to roll those guys out every week, that should have been more than sufficient to win games with the defense they had that season.

Bottom line, the 2019 season didn't work out. It happens. No one was happy and the parties involved agreed it was best to break up rather they stay together. It happens. Brady went to a better team in Tampa. Things broke just the right way for them last year and they won the SB. NE was going to go through a rebuild with or without Brady as their recent draft picks had mostly flamed out. That happens too. Brady ended up in a better place (went to a better team) while BB had to try to right the ship (had a mediocre talent base to work with).

NE looks like they have found their QB of the future, so we will have to wait and see if BB can build a team around him (and what approach he takes to team building, player motivation, salary cap and roster management, drafting, etc.).


Oh for sure. I didn't mean to imply they didn't try at all to get Brady weapons. I mean they were woefully inept at getting him weapons in the last years.

And at this point, I think it takes a lot more than just a passable effort at trying. We saw in places like Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Buffalo, Dallas and others where teams don't just try but instead make it a priority to listen to and surround their QB with the tools he needs to win. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Oh for sure. I didn't mean to imply they didn't try at all to get Brady weapons. I mean they were woefully inept at getting him weapons in the last years.

And at this point, I think it takes a lot more than just a passable effort at trying. We saw in places like Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Buffalo, Dallas and others where teams don't just try but instead make it a priority to listen to and surround their QB with the tools he needs to win. 
There's a happy medium between what some teams do and what Belichick did for Brady, one thinks. I think KC drafting a running back in the first round in 2020 was a disaster, and they drafted pretty much just another guy at the position. I also think it was a function of listening to Mahomes when they had a glaring need for a WR2 and along their OL. 

I wasn't a fly on the wall, but it seemed that way, and it might have cost them a Super Bowl. There's probably a middle ground. 

Also, hope you're doing okay, Joe. Best. 

 

The Duff Man

Footballguy
It was reported that the Pats made a push to get Diggs. I believe the timing lines up that Brady pulled the trigger AFTER they missed out on that trade. What a different world if the Pats had coughed up what the Bills offered and Brady stayed 😬

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Oh for sure. I didn't mean to imply they didn't try at all to get Brady weapons. I mean they were woefully inept at getting him weapons in the last years.

And at this point, I think it takes a lot more than just a passable effort at trying. We saw in places like Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Buffalo, Dallas and others where teams don't just try but instead make it a priority to listen to and surround their QB with the tools he needs to win. 
As we may likely see in the future, there's a difference between being good for a couple of years and having a sustained 20 year stretch of being a top SB competitor every year. A lot of that has to do with the salary cap and selling out to make a run. The Seahawks and Rams are two teams that come to mind. Both were great with key guys on rookie contracts and then paid through the moon to sign them and they haven't been quite the same. We'll see if the Rams can make more noise with Stafford, but they still are carrying dead weight in terms of dead cap money and have some really expensive players. KC, Tampa, and Pittsburgh may have kicked the salary cap hit down the road for a lot of guys. Mahomes has a huge extension ready to kick in but for now is paid peanuts.

IIRC, we still haven't seen a team with a top paid QB win the SB. Cap hits for those guys are massive. Maybe that's a coincidence, maybe it's not. BUF and DAL look good now, but who knows where they will be in a year or two with some big contracts on the books.

As far as NE went, had they been able to consistently play Edelman / Brown / Gordon / Gronk or Cook / White / Michel with one of the best defenses in the league, NE could have won even more and Brady would likely still be there. That didn't happen, NE fell into some cap trouble because of it, and things started going the wrong way. There are any number of team in the league that have had to deal with this.

As you mentioned, we'll see where NE goes moving forward and if Jones can become "the guy" . . . and also which teams can stay at or near the top of the mountain for more than a couple of seasons.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
On the flip side, I see people gleefully ripping New England letting Brady get away as equal to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth calling the worst move in sports history.


I've not really seen any rational person saying this.  I'm sure it's out there, but not in any kind of prevailing way.  Most people understand how unlikely this all was.  We all laughed our butts off when Brady said he was going to play until he was 45, let alone play until 45 at this level.

A majority of the top QBs in history played for a different team at the end.  It's not unusual.

 
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jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
I only came to comment that I felt that the Patriots barely pausing the game to acknowledge Brady  becoming the all time leader in passing yards was pretty dismissive and disgraceful.  Regardless of Tom now being on a different team at this point in his career—he did enough for that fanbase and that organization to have deserved a better ceremony/acknowledgement of that moment.  It was pretty pathetic imo. 

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I only came to comment that I felt that the Patriots barely pausing the game to acknowledge Brady  becoming the all time leader in passing yards was pretty dismissive and disgraceful.  Regardless of Tom now being on a different team at this point in his career—he did enough for that fanbase and that organization to have deserved a better ceremony/acknowledgement of that moment.  It was pretty pathetic imo. 
Brady specifically requested both the Patriots and the NFL to NOT stop the game or make a big deal of it. They honored his request, so not sure you can hang that on NE.

 

Blackbear

Footballguy
I only came to comment that I felt that the Patriots barely pausing the game to acknowledge Brady  becoming the all time leader in passing yards was pretty dismissive and disgraceful.  Regardless of Tom now being on a different team at this point in his career—he did enough for that fanbase and that organization to have deserved a better ceremony/acknowledgement of that moment.  It was pretty pathetic imo. 
People were saying in the game thread he didn’t want a pause and ceremony.

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
Brady specifically requested both the Patriots and the NFL to NOT stop the game or make a big deal of it. They honored his request, so not sure you can hang that on NE.
I wasn’t aware of that—so that’s fair—but did they do any sort of video tribute before the game for him?  Even the Celtics did one for Kyrie and he hardly played there.   I just felt as though the Pats could have done a little more to show some sort of appreciation for his past there.    Anyhow—just my 2 cents. 

 

NE_REVIVAL

Footballguy
I'm not picking sides, but I have kept pretty close to what has been reported on all of this. Mind you, I realize that doesn't make it accurate.

By all accounts, Brady was mentally checked out in 2019. He wasn't happy, didn't want to be there anymore, and from plenty of reports he was no longer well liked in the locker room. He was said to have been moody, distant, and no longer engaged with his teammates. What the general public didn't know is he was also injured (knee). The last part is what contributed to Brady looking terrible the end of 2019 and what prompted people to wonder if he still had it.

Say what you want about NE not having good skill position players, they at least made an effort to bring in help. In the span of a year or two, they traded for Brandin Cooks and Trent Brown. They drafted Sony Michel, Isaiah Wynn, and N'Keal Harry in the first round. They signed Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown. They added Mohamad Sanu (who Brady asked them to go get). That's two OT, a RB, and 5 WR. They also had come to an agreement with Jared Cook at TE, but he would not sign unless Gronk had retired (and thus never did as Gronk waited another month to retire). 

So sure, NE had "an abysmal roster" in 2019 . . . but not for lack of trying. That same roster earlier in the year had Edelman (who got dinged up), AB (who had a civil suit in the works before he evened signed), and Gordon (suspended again) on it and added Sanu (who got hurt after one game on the team). Had they been able to roll those guys out every week, that should have been more than sufficient to win games with the defense they had that season.

Bottom line, the 2019 season didn't work out. It happens. No one was happy and the parties involved agreed it was best to break up rather they stay together. It happens. Brady went to a better team in Tampa. Things broke just the right way for them last year and they won the SB. NE was going to go through a rebuild with or without Brady as their recent draft picks had mostly flamed out. That happens too. Brady ended up in a better place (went to a better team) while BB had to try to right the ship (had a mediocre talent base to work with).

NE looks like they have found their QB of the future, so we will have to wait and see if BB can build a team around him (and what approach he takes to team building, player motivation, salary cap and roster management, drafting, etc.).
David I respect your opinion and agree with you most of the time but you can't claim you haven't picked a side when clearly you have and have trashed brady again and again. You continue to say derogatory "rumor" type things about Brady like he "checked out" in 2019; really? Look at the numbers he put up while surrounded by total chicken crap and look at the following year. Your opinion that Brady was a washed up bad apple is well documented as are my arguments for why I felt you were wrong. You thought Brady was all done; he wasn't 

I don't blame BB for believing Brady would likely fall off a cliff and for doing what BB always does which is whatever he "thinks" is in the best interest of the team. Sometimes he is right and sometimes he is wrong; clearly he is a much better HC than GM. 

BB is the greatest HC of all time and Brady is the greatest QB, I still like both of them; well I love Brady a bit more. BB didn't feel he needed or wanted Brady anymore and Brady felt similar. There split was like Lennon\Mccartney and almost inevitable imho.  I DON"T BLAME EITHER ONE.

Brady left and showed he didn't need BB as his genius HC to win a SB and now BB will try and show he doesn't need Brady (good luck with that Bill..). Some don't like that but that's the way it is.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I wasn’t aware of that—so that’s fair—but did they do any sort of video tribute before the game for him?  Even the Celtics did one for Kyrie and he hardly played there.   I just felt as though the Pats could have done a little more to show some sort of appreciation for his past there.    Anyhow—just my 2 cents. 
Yes, they did a video tribute before the game started.

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
Yes they did. Any other make-believe grievances to air?
I asked if they they did a video tribute because either they didn’t do one or I missed it.  The other poster was nice enough to answer my genuine question kindly.  Any reason why you chose to answer rudely or is that just part of your personality? And people ask me why I don’t spend as much time on these boards anymore. Enjoy your day. 

 

Blackbear

Footballguy
Yes they did. Any other make-believe grievances to air?
Did they cheer for Brady and do a “Brady! Brady! Brady!” chant? If not then it would be poor taste.

Doh! They did that too.

There must be something that they didn’t do…

🥴

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
David I respect your opinion and agree with you most of the time but you can't claim you haven't picked a side when clearly you have and have trashed brady again and again. You continue to say derogatory "rumor" type things about Brady like he "checked out" in 2019; really? Look at the numbers he put up while surrounded by total chicken crap and look at the following year. Your opinion that Brady was a washed up bad apple is well documented as are my arguments for why I felt you were wrong. You thought Brady was all done; he wasn't 

I don't blame BB for believing Brady would likely fall off a cliff and for doing what BB always does which is whatever he "thinks" is in the best interest of the team. Sometimes he is right and sometimes he is wrong; clearly he is a much better HC than GM. 

BB is the greatest HC of all time and Brady is the greatest QB, I still like both of them; well I love Brady a bit more. BB didn't feel he needed or wanted Brady anymore and Brady felt similar. There split was like Lennon\Mccartney and almost inevitable imho.  I DON"T BLAME EITHER ONE.

Brady left and showed he didn't need BB as his genius HC to win a SB and now BB will try and show he doesn't need Brady (good luck with that Bill..). Some don't like that but that's the way it is.
Funny how both sides say I am on the other side pretty much all the time. Go back through and look at all the posts over the years where I said Brady had produced like no other QB and that initially two halves of his career were HOF worthy and now each third of Brady's career is HOF worthy. The numbers are the numbers . . . and the numbers show that over the second half of 2019, Brady ranked last in the league in all sorts of categories (completion%, QB rating, YPA, etc.). The fact that I posted those numbers doesn't mean I trashed him . . . it only shows that his numbers were horrible. I was not aware that he was injured. There are plenty of reports that circulated that things were bad on all sides that season . . . not exactly news there.

As I have already posted and pointed out, the team made a concerted effort to improve the offense in 2017/18/19. Things happened and things didn't work out. But the narrative that NE made no effort to get Brady help is flat out not true. By the mid point of 2019 when Gronk had retired, AB was gone, Gordon was gone, Edelman was hurt, and Sanu was hurt, the trade deadline had already passed. They were already short on cap room to begin with and they did what they could do.

As far as BB the coach vs. BB the GM, remaining competitive in the salary cap era is no easy task and he has been able to do it for 20+ years. For every early draft pick that didn't work, he found a late round gem AND an UDFA. So sure, I agree the last few drafts have been spotty at best. But to suggest he isn't a good GM is missing a lot of what he has done to bring in players and manage the roster under the cap.

 

Blackbear

Footballguy
I asked if they they did a video tribute because either they didn’t do one or I missed it.  The other poster was nice enough to answer my genuine question kindly.  Any reason why you chose to answer rudely or is that just part of your personality? And people ask me why I don’t spend as much time on these boards anymore. Enjoy your day. 
It’s all good. Just having a little fun with you. I think it was fine. Belichick even spent 20 minutes in the Tampa Locker room with Brady after the game. So this media driven “they are enemies” seems exaggerated. 

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I asked if they they did a video tribute because either they didn’t do one or I missed it.  The other poster was nice enough to answer my genuine question kindly.  Any reason why you chose to answer rudely or is that just part of your personality? And people ask me why I don’t spend as much time on these boards anymore. Enjoy your day. 
Part of the problem these days in the era of social media and media scrutiny is that some of this stuff didn't get reported on, so there are people posting that NE treated Brady's return poorly (not suggesting you did . . . but there are folks out there that were not exactly kind to NE on the subject). From potentially not stopping the game, not really acknowledging passing Brees, to not seeing a video tribute, to BB and TB not interacting right after the game, etc. 

It didn't happen that way, but I can see that people who didn't know that they played a video tribute, that Brady didn't want the game stopped, and that BB and TB agreed to meet up after the game and spent 25 minutes together behind closed doors could get the wrong impression.

 

Gally

Footballguy
There's a happy medium between what some teams do and what Belichick did for Brady, one thinks. I think KC drafting a running back in the first round in 2020 was a disaster, and they drafted pretty much just another guy at the position. I also think it was a function of listening to Mahomes when they had a glaring need for a WR2 and along their OL. 

I wasn't a fly on the wall, but it seemed that way, and it might have cost them a Super Bowl. There's probably a middle ground. 

Also, hope you're doing okay, Joe. Best. 
Was drafting a RB a disaster or was drafting CEH a disaster?  Those are two different things.  If they took Swift instead would that narrative still be the same?  Like it is for any draft, it's not so much what position you take in the draft necessarily it's more whether or not you take the right player when you draft regardless of position.  If you take a guy that isn't right (even if it's the "right" position) the results will be the same - a wasted draft pick.  

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
Part of the problem these days in the era of social media and media scrutiny is that some of this stuff didn't get reported on, so there are people posting that NE treated Brady's return poorly (not suggesting you did . . . but there are folks out there that were not exactly kind to NE on the subject). From potentially not stopping the game, not really acknowledging passing Brees, to not seeing a video tribute, to BB and TB not interacting right after the game, etc. 

It didn't happen that way, but I can see that people who didn't know that they played a video tribute, that Brady didn't want the game stopped, and that BB and TB agreed to meet up after the game and spent 25 minutes together behind closed doors could get the wrong impression.
I live in Huntington Beach.  I don’t know if you’ve seen the news lately—but on Saturday night—there was reports of a giant oil spill off our coast (literally a 5 minute walk from where i live) and crude oil and dead animals were washing up on shore and going into our wetlands. Literally yesterday—the tv stations were giving live updates of the situation—so it’s very possible that the tribute occurred while the stations where I live were doing “breaking reports”.  That’s why I appreciate you actually answering my question instead of jumping to the conclusion that I was just looking for something to complain about. 

 

Gally

Footballguy
On the flip side, I see people gleefully ripping New England letting Brady get away as equal to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth calling the worst move in sports history.

I think that's ridiculous. 

Letting a 42 year old QB go is hardly controversial. Belichick did what he always did and put system over players. He played the odds.

For years, it had worked out in his favor. This time clearly it did not. 

But it's easy to see why he chose to go with the younger QB.

I'm guessing lots of Steelers fans right now are wishing their team had chosen a similar path. 
I am not so sure that it did not work out in BB's favor.  Brady on this team wouldn't be doing what he did with NE.  Based on the way BB builds teams it was the right decision to part with Brady regardless of how Brady played after leaving NE.  I think both sides would do the same thing 100 times out of 100 given the opportunity to replay that decision.  

 

Jewell

Footballguy
It’s all good. Just having a little fun with you. I think it was fine. Belichick even spent 20 minutes in the Tampa Locker room with Brady after the game. So this media driven “they are enemies” seems exaggerated. 
Exactly. Is Belichick publicly warm & fuzzy with anyone? When Bill publicly acts the exact same toward Brady as he does to seemingly everyone people read into it ill-will toward Tom. In reality, none of us really know what Belichick is thinking or what was said during his private meeting with Brady post-game. Numerous people have noted that Belichick is a different person in public than private, and a different person when coaching and when outside football.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Was drafting a RB a disaster or was drafting CEH a disaster?  Those are two different things.  If they took Swift instead would that narrative still be the same?  Like it is for any draft, it's not so much what position you take in the draft necessarily it's more whether or not you take the right player when you draft regardless of position.  If you take a guy that isn't right (even if it's the "right" position) the results will be the same - a wasted draft pick.  
I think it's both, actually. I think they drafted the wrong position of need and compounded it by not getting the best player for their system. I mean, Antonio Gibson went in the third, so it's not like the Chiefs couldn't have waited on a running back. 

I also question first-round running backs for anybody without having the attendant pieces. Their O-Line, even though it's because it was banged up, helped cost them a Super Bowl, as did not having another viable wideout. 

But I take your point. If they pick D'Andre Swift or even Taylor or Akers or Dobbins, you wouldn't hear such foul cries, I guess. 

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Exactly. Is Belichick publicly warm & fuzzy with anyone? When Bill publicly acts the exact same toward Brady as he does to seemingly everyone people read into it ill-will toward Tom. In reality, none of us really know what Belichick is thinking or what was said during his private meeting with Brady post-game. Numerous people have noted that Belichick is a different person in public than private, and a different person when coaching and when outside football.
I know people that are friends with BB, and I have heard a ton of stories from former players. In "real life," Bill is said to have a personality, cracks jokes all the time, and is fun to be around. I know that sounds impossible and incongruous to the Bill we see at press conferences, but the behind closed doors BB is completely different than the persona we see at the podium in front of a camera.

 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
On the flip side, I see people gleefully ripping New England letting Brady get away as equal to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth calling the worst move in sports history.

I think that's ridiculous. 

Letting a 42 year old QB go is hardly controversial. Belichick did what he always did and put system over players. He played the odds.

For years, it had worked out in his favor. This time clearly it did not. 

But it's easy to see why he chose to go with the younger QB.

I'm guessing lots of Steelers fans right now are wishing their team had chosen a similar path. 


In reality most HCs like BB are probably thinking after the age of 35 the bottom has to drop out eventually on a QB. One more year, one more year, one more year.  When will it happen?   Wait a year too long?  

It was probably time for a split for both parties as it probably would not have ended well in NE for Brady.

Brady to Tampa was the best possible landing spot with all the offensive weapons so he could keep performing at a high level with talent around him. now Brady to Detroit or Chicago would have ended in a disaster.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
In reality most HCs like BB are probably thinking after the age of 35 the bottom has to drop out eventually on a QB. One more year, one more year, one more year.  When will it happen?   Wait a year too long?  

It was probably time for a split for both parties as it probably would not have ended well in NE for Brady.

Brady to Tampa was the best possible landing spot with all the offensive weapons so he could keep performing at a high level with talent around him. now Brady to Detroit or Chicago would have ended in a disaster.
In Wickersham's upcoming book, he claims Brady's first choice was to go to the Niners but they said no.

 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
Agreed. Brady makes it look easy to the point I think people forget how insane this is. 
I dealt him away in dynasty superflex for a decent package his last year in NE. His numbers weren't great (bad team around him) and he was 42 or 43. I was brimming with confidence that I'd made a great trade. 

That he threw 42 TDs the following  year, and what he's doing this year, are so far beyond the pale. Unimaginable. Yet here we are. 

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Joe Montana wearing the wrong color red & taking the Chiefs to the playoffs says hi. :cry:
At least the Niners had Steve Young. The Patriots had Section 104, Row 12, Seat 17 to replace Brady. That's the biggest WTF moment involving BB. What exactly was the secession plan once Brady left town? It's not like they didn't know he was old. He had long passed "getting old." I can't really believe the plan was Stidham (at least I hope not).

 

Flying Elvis

Footballguy
Seems to me it was the best of a bad situation on both sides.

Brady was aware of the lack of talent around him and was noticeably frustrated with the situation in 2019. He no-showed OTA and all non-mandatory work despite having young WRs that needed reps with him. He was constantly looking sulky and didn't seem to be the same "all-in" guy he'd always been to that point. He made the right decision to move on and it is looking great for him for a few years. He clearly has the best workout routine of anyone, ever, and continues to look great now that his attitude and focus are back on football without the distraction that comes with being the GOAT while the team around you is poor.

BB made the reasonable call in preparing to move on. The cap situation, Brady's age, and general state of the team made 2020 a very obvious year for the rebuild to truly begin during a cap-hell year that had no real fix, aside from dumping the huge salary of an ancient QB who has no business defying father time the way he's done.

It's great to see Brady doing so well. It would have been even greater to have secured the win last night. I'll take the result overall, as Mac Jones looked incredible and seems to have a very bright future. Though I do have serious concerns about BB's ability to scout, attract, and draft/sign WR talent.

 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
At least the Niners had Steve Young. The Patriots had Section 104, Row 12, Seat 17 to replace Brady. That's the biggest WTF moment involving BB. What exactly was the secession plan once Brady left town? It's not like they didn't know he was old. He had long passed "getting old." I can't really believe the plan was Stidham (at least I hope not).
True - I believe the plan was JimmyG, but they traded him to SF. 

I am still not sure what went down there, but IIRC, Hoodie wasn't happy about it. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
In Wickersham's upcoming book, he claims Brady's first choice was to go to the Niners but they said no.


Surely, that can't be correct. Twitter has repeatedly told me Shanahan and the 49er front office are the smartest people in all of sports...

 
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Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
In Wickersham's upcoming book, he claims Brady's first choice was to go to the Niners but they said no.
They have spoken about this and Shanahan had just gotten to the SB with Jimmy G as their QB, he didn't view Brady as any kind of upgrade. 

-I think Bruce Arians was the absolute right coach and recognized he needed to try and let Tom do his thing and take his suggestions and ideas for the offense especially, take them seriously if you want to try and win with him. 

-Does MoP believe in the TB12 diet...doesn't matter because Tom obviously does and he is now 44 and still grinding. My opinion matters very little, in fact I'll say NONE here.  

Results Results Results and I don't care how you want to spin hat Brady has done and believe me I have been as big a critic, called him an open cheater with deflate gate but the facts are the facts and he has 7 Lombardis now over 2 teams in BOTH Conferences, you/we just sound pathetic finding fault with Brady. 

 
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NE_REVIVAL

Footballguy
I'm not picking sides, but I have kept pretty close to what has been reported on all of this. Mind you, I realize that doesn't make it accurate.

By all accounts, Brady was mentally checked out in 2019. He wasn't happy, didn't want to be there anymore, and from plenty of reports he was no longer well liked in the locker room. He was said to have been moody, distant, and no longer engaged with his teammates. What the general public didn't know is he was also injured (knee). The last part is what contributed to Brady looking terrible the end of 2019 and what prompted people to wonder if he still had it.

Say what you want about NE not having good skill position players, they at least made an effort to bring in help. In the span of a year or two, they traded for Brandin Cooks and Trent Brown. They drafted Sony Michel, Isaiah Wynn, and N'Keal Harry in the first round. They signed Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown. They added Mohamad Sanu (who Brady asked them to go get). That's two OT, a RB, and 5 WR. They also had come to an agreement with Jared Cook at TE, but he would not sign unless Gronk had retired (and thus never did as Gronk waited another month to retire). 

So sure, NE had "an abysmal roster" in 2019 . . . but not for lack of trying. That same roster earlier in the year had Edelman (who got dinged up), AB (who had a civil suit in the works before he evened signed), and Gordon (suspended again) on it and added Sanu (who got hurt after one game on the team). Had they been able to roll those guys out every week, that should have been more than sufficient to win games with the defense they had that season.

Bottom line, the 2019 season didn't work out. It happens. No one was happy and the parties involved agreed it was best to break up rather they stay together. It happens. Brady went to a better team in Tampa. Things broke just the right way for them last year and they won the SB. NE was going to go through a rebuild with or without Brady as their recent draft picks had mostly flamed out. That happens too. Brady ended up in a better place (went to a better team) while BB had to try to right the ship (had a mediocre talent base to work with).

NE looks like they have found their QB of the future, so we will have to wait and see if BB can build a team around him (and what approach he takes to team building, player motivation, salary cap and roster management, drafting, etc.).
Like most everyone here on the board I respect your Pats thoughts and opinions the vast majority of the time, but u know that you and I disagree big time on Brady. You have said (on more than 1 occasion) that both sides claim you are on other side, but in the Brady threads you and I have been in, on this subject since 2019, I have never seen it and you have consistently again and again over a long period of time trashed both Brady's abilities and work habits.  

You have done far more than just "post his numbers" when trashing him and its really disingenuous to imply as if that is what my criticism is based on. You have ripped him in the past and in the bolded above your attacking and smearing his character.  By checked out do you mean he knew that even with all he had done for that organization BB was ready to move on? Ok agreed, do you also mean he knew the team around him was hot garbage? Ok, agreed. But to impugn his character and not acknowledge that, considering what they had around him it is amazing that they scored as many points as they did.  On more than 1 occasion you have claimed\implied that the talent around him wasn't all that bad and the real reasons the offense suffered were his actions in TC, how he "had checked out", bad attitude and his talent had fallen way off etc.  Those are dog whistles for me and that is what my criticism is based on. That and you claiming you don't have a side when you clearly do. You are a BB company guy and im a Brady guy; it's all good, just own it.

Yes, Brady had bad numbers in 2019, where we disagree is the why (I say it was primarily due to the chicken crap around him) and you claim it was bad attitude and diminished skills (or at least you did for a very long time). 

I agree with u that the "NE made no effort to get talent at the end" is not true; they tried, they just failed at it (which for offensive players is undeniable pretty common for BB the GM) and they also had some really bad luck. On that we agree.

When you see what Brady did with Moss and now in Tampa at 43, it is fair to wonder what he could have done offensively had BB made a point and had similar success to drafting WRs like say the Steelers have had. 

I will close with what I wrote at the end of the post you responded to.

BB is the greatest HC of all time and Brady is the greatest QB, I still like both of them; well I love Brady a bit more. BB didn't feel he needed or wanted Brady anymore and Brady felt similar. There split was like Lennon\Mccartney and almost inevitable imho.  I DON"T BLAME EITHER ONE. 

Brady left and showed he didn't need BB as his genius HC to win a SB and now BB will try and show he doesn't need Brady (good luck with that Bill..). Some don't like that but that's the way it is.

 
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Anarchy99

Footballguy
When you see what Brady did with Moss and now in Tampa at 43, it is fair to wonder what he could have done offensively had BB made a point and had similar success to drafting WRs like say the Steelers have had. 
Not you specifically, but I have seen / heard the argument many times WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN if NE heavily invested in WR, whether it be through the draft or through free agency. From 2007 through 2018, Brady had some really good targets to throw to (Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk, Hernandez, Cooks, Lloyd, White, etc.) Had they gone crazy trying to bring in more top guys at WR, they would have been weaker at other positions. It's very possible that NE could have scored a lot of points, put up some inflated numbers, and still not won. They scored 500+ 4 times with Brady . . . and did not win a SB in any of those seasons. It could easily have been a case of a lot of empty calories.

Almost as much a signature as Brady being a jewel in NE, another Patriots staple has been their defense. The Pats ranked in the Top 10 in points allowed 17 times with TB there (including 8 times in the Top 5). It's not bashing Brady to suggest that he benefited greatly from the defenses BB built and those played an equally big role in them winning. In Brady's 7 SB winning seasons, his teams' defenses ranked 6, 7, 9, 8, 1, 7, 8 (that includes Tampa). 

The obvious answer to all of this is BB greatly benefited from TB and vice versa.

 
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massraider

Footballguy
History won't remember this. 

I get why it's interesting. But neither of these guys had their career hampered by a bad relationship. This isn't Jimmy/Jerry. Or even Walsh/Montana. It's on morning TV, and talk radio, and rabid Boston sports radio. And no one cares in three months. BB best coach ever, Brady is the best PLAYER ever, someone pointed out that he has had two Hall of Fame careers.  Absolutely has, has anyone else? 

The Pats weren't a Super Bowl team with Brady at the end. 

This move might cement Brady as a better player than Bill is a coach, for now, but who cares?

 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
I know people that are friends with BB, and I have heard a ton of stories from former players. In "real life," Bill is said to have a personality, cracks jokes all the time, and is fun to be around. I know that sounds impossible and incongruous to the Bill we see at press conferences, but the behind closed doors BB is completely different than the persona we see at the podium in front of a camera.
Honestly based on his press conferences I think he'd be a riot in real life.  Really dry and witty.

 

Harry Frogfish

Footballguy
On the flip side, I see people gleefully ripping New England letting Brady get away as equal to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth calling the worst move in sports history.

I think that's ridiculous. 

Letting a 42 year old QB go is hardly controversial. Belichick did what he always did and put system over players. He played the odds.

For years, it had worked out in his favor. This time clearly it did not. 

But it's easy to see why he chose to go with the younger QB.

I'm guessing lots of Steelers fans right now are wishing their team had chosen a similar path. 
Well put.

Letting Mookie Betts go was worse.

 

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