Tom Brady MVP? (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

Pats chances for the #1 seed looking good if the Chargers can finish this off.

Pats got a tough game coming up this week at Miami, where they always struggle. And then next week at Baltimore.

If they win the next 3 they'll get the #1 seed. This team is hungry and with the loss of Gronk I can see them really stepping up and playing their best football yet. Miami and the Ravens will be tough but it's certainly possible.

It's possible, definitely. But I think the odds are against them going 3-0. I'm a Pats fan but I just can't see them winning at Miami and at Baltimore given all the players they have lost. I hope I am wrong.

It's a longshot, but that's what makes Brady as MVP more interesting if he does it.

 

[Anarchy99]

Tom Curran suggested last night that NE without Brady would be 2-11 this year and that he was the huge reason for their success. Basically, he said you could look at 8 games that Brady seemingly won on his own. I don't see it that way, but that was his opinion.

 

[Phlash]

Tom Curran suggested last night that NE without Brady would be 2-11 this year and that he was the huge reason for their success. Basically, he said you could look at 8 games that Brady seemingly won on his own. I don't see it that way, but that was his opinion.

He has a point. The team Matt Cassell took over was a roster that had just gone undefeated in the regular season... this Patriots team is lacking talent on both sides of the ball. Brady is the only elite player on the offense who has consistently been there. He can't do it all alone though, as it's a team game, but his ability to play so methodically, being aggressive with the ball while avoiding mistakes, lets him do things even some other elite QBs struggle with. He has had times where he's thrown INTs at the end of games (usually on bombs, I hardly see him throw picks across the middle or on post routes), but if the game is winnable, his play is phenomenal.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Tom Curran suggested last night that NE without Brady would be 2-11 this year and that he was the huge reason for their success. Basically, he said you could look at 8 games that Brady seemingly won on his own. I don't see it that way, but that was his opinion.

He has a point. The team Matt Cassell took over was a roster that had just gone undefeated in the regular season... this Patriots team is lacking talent on both sides of the ball. Brady is the only elite player on the offense who has consistently been there. He can't do it all alone though, as it's a team game, but his ability to play so methodically, being aggressive with the ball while avoiding mistakes, lets him do things even some other elite QBs struggle with. He has had times where he's thrown INTs at the end of games (usually on bombs, I hardly see him throw picks across the middle or on post routes), but if the game is winnable, his play is phenomenal.

He's dead wrong. The defense pulled this team through at least 3 games by themselves DESPITE Brady. On top of that, there were games where Brady wasn't needed either.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Tom Curran suggested last night that NE without Brady would be 2-11 this year and that he was the huge reason for their success. Basically, he said you could look at 8 games that Brady seemingly won on his own. I don't see it that way, but that was his opinion.

That's asinine. No player EVER wins games on his own. Not Brady, not Manning, not anyone.

 

[Anarchy99]

Tom Curran suggested last night that NE without Brady would be 2-11 this year and that he was the huge reason for their success. Basically, he said you could look at 8 games that Brady seemingly won on his own. I don't see it that way, but that was his opinion.

That's asinine. No player EVER wins games on his own. Not Brady, not Manning, not anyone.

It's the media. They tend to exaggerate. His position was Brady "saved" them at the end of a ton of games.

The other oddity was Curran reviewed his Top 6 best coached seasons by Belichick in NE. This year only ranked 5th (which to me is way too low given all the injuries and changes on offense).

1 - 2003

2 - 2001

3 - 2010

4 - 2007

5 - 2013

6 - 2008

Not sure how 2007 trumps this year, as that team was STACKED. I guess Spygate was a distraction, but that team was loaded on both sides of the ball.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I wonder if Tom Curran also thinks Tebow was the MVP of the 2011 season since he "saved" the Broncos at the end of a bunch of their games as well.

Also, you could argue that this year is Belichick's best coaching job to date. Injuries all over the place, his HOF QB having an off year by his standards, and a tough schedule, yet they are 10-3? Someone like Andy Reid will get Coach of the Year, but if Belichick won it, I wouldn't argue.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

 

[Ghost Rider]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

If their coaches remain the same, that could be, but give Manning those WRs and Belichick as his coach, and I am pretty sure they'd be in a similar situation as the Patriots are right now.

The question is, even with that WR corps, would Peyton Manning, with Gronk at his disposal, have as many pitiful first halves as Brady did when he had Gronk this year?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

If their coaches remain the same, that could be, but give Manning those WRs and Belichick as his coach, and I am pretty sure they'd be in a similar situation as the Patriots are right now.

The question is, even with that WR corps, would Peyton Manning, with Gronk at his disposal, have as many pitiful first halves as Brady did when he had Gronk this year?

they play 2 halves, don't they?

guess it's unlikely you'd ever see a pitiful half from manning with all those great receivers, though......oh waitaminute.........

but, I agree with you about the impact gronk's had in the 6 and a half games we've been fortunate to have him play.

 

[devouredbychaos]

"Brady could steal MVP from Peyton"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/13/brady-could-steal-mvp-from-peyton/

 

[cstu]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

Honestly, I think they'd both be about the same. They both have been making the most of what they have IMO.

 

[msudaisy26]

There are a few games this year where Brady was awful but the team won because their defense pulled them through. If Brady rips it up the rest of the season, I still think he deserves consideration for MVP. Gronk really deserves it though.

I can see where youre coming from but MVP isn't for best team. Its a combination of value to the team, team record, and individual success to some extent. I know statistics could be inflated but in Manning's case they aren't. Manning has barely had more attempts than Brady passing, he's just done way better with his attempts. And one way to measure a QB's total success is passer rating and its not close.

Manning 114

Brady 88

I just don't get why if Brady is even considered then why isn't Russell Wilson?? Wilson>>>Brady in terms of being named MVP. This guy has had almost a perfect QBR in the last 3 weeks. He has had good stats, esp for the amount of throws made. The WR core around him would be considered worse or on par with Brady. AND he has the best record in football in the toughest division in football. He doesn't play the Bills, Jets and Dolphins twice a year.

I think most people don't just look at QB rating because Manning has has the best offensive supporting cast in the NFL, by far, and Brady lead the team to one of the best records in the NFL while throwing to nobodies.

who won MVP in 2007 when Brady was setting all kinds of records (which are about to be broken) with the best offensive supporting cast in the NFL by far?

Apple to oranges. Not only was Beady the best player in the league that year but he was also on the best team and I at the start of the year no one thought he had the best weapons in the league. Moss was under achieving and was with the Patriots for his first year, Welker was a nobody that was also in his first year with the team. Manning already had Decker and Thomas then they added Welker and found Julius Thomas and Moreno. Brady's tight ends were Kyle Brady and Ben Watson, his leading back was Maroney.

You could actually argue that several quarterbacks had more weapons that year then Brady, including Manning with Wayne, Clark, Harrison and Addai.

 

[msudaisy26]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

Honestly, I think they'd both be about the same. They both have been making the most of what they have IMO.

I agree with you both. I think Manning stats would like Brady's if he had those guys all year, but I don't think the Broncos would be any where near the playoffs with that cast because their defense is extremely bad.

 

[msudaisy26]

Tom Curran suggested last night that NE without Brady would be 2-11 this year and that he was the huge reason for their success. Basically, he said you could look at 8 games that Brady seemingly won on his own. I don't see it that way, but that was his opinion.

He has a point. The team Matt Cassell took over was a roster that had just gone undefeated in the regular season... this Patriots team is lacking talent on both sides of the ball. Brady is the only elite player on the offense who has consistently been there. He can't do it all alone though, as it's a team game, but his ability to play so methodically, being aggressive with the ball while avoiding mistakes, lets him do things even some other elite QBs struggle with. He has had times where he's thrown INTs at the end of games (usually on bombs, I hardly see him throw picks across the middle or on post routes), but if the game is winnable, his play is phenomenal.

He's dead wrong. The defense pulled this team through at least 3 games by themselves DESPITE Brady. On top of that, there were games where Brady wasn't needed either.

So by that theory Manning isn't an MVP candidate at all. They didn't need him in the Philly, Oakland, Baltimore, Giants, Redskins, Jaguars, Titans games.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

If their coaches remain the same, that could be, but give Manning those WRs and Belichick as his coach, and I am pretty sure they'd be in a similar situation as the Patriots are right now.

The question is, even with that WR corps, would Peyton Manning, with Gronk at his disposal, have as many pitiful first halves as Brady did when he had Gronk this year?

Your Brady haterade has reached new lows, now you give Belichick all the credit? Just stop. Manning has never excelled with the weak receiving corps Brady has had to contend with this season. Your assumption that Manning would do just as well as Brady if he he was in his shoes is baseless.

 

[Anarchy99]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

If their coaches remain the same, that could be, but give Manning those WRs and Belichick as his coach, and I am pretty sure they'd be in a similar situation as the Patriots are right now.

The question is, even with that WR corps, would Peyton Manning, with Gronk at his disposal, have as many pitiful first halves as Brady did when he had Gronk this year?

Your Brady haterade has reached new lows, now you give Belichick all the credit? Just stop. Manning has never excelled with the weak receiving corps Brady has had to contend with this season. Your assumption that Manning would do just as well as Brady if he he was in his shoes is baseless.

Does last year not count for Manning? DThomas had been hurt and not as proven and Decker hadn't done much yet either in the limited time they were in the league. Granted, Thomas had some big games with Tebow, but neither one of these two was Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

 

[Ghost Rider]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

If their coaches remain the same, that could be, but give Manning those WRs and Belichick as his coach, and I am pretty sure they'd be in a similar situation as the Patriots are right now.

The question is, even with that WR corps, would Peyton Manning, with Gronk at his disposal, have as many pitiful first halves as Brady did when he had Gronk this year?

Your Brady haterade has reached new lows, now you give Belichick all the credit? Just stop. Manning has never excelled with the weak receiving corps Brady has had to contend with this season. Your assumption that Manning would do just as well as Brady if he he was in his shoes is baseless.

Your assumption that Manning wouldn't do as well as Brady is baseless.

And yeah, how dare I give credit to one of the best coaches of all-time? If you don't think this season is one of Belichick's best coaching jobs ever, then you probably need to start paying attention a little more so you understand the ins and outs of football.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

let's face it --- give brady d thomas, j thomas, decker and welker and he runs roughshod over the league.

meanwhile, manning with edelman, thompkins, boyce, and matthew mullignan doesn't make the playoffs

If their coaches remain the same, that could be, but give Manning those WRs and Belichick as his coach, and I am pretty sure they'd be in a similar situation as the Patriots are right now.

The question is, even with that WR corps, would Peyton Manning, with Gronk at his disposal, have as many pitiful first halves as Brady did when he had Gronk this year?

Your Brady haterade has reached new lows, now you give Belichick all the credit? Just stop. Manning has never excelled with the weak receiving corps Brady has had to contend with this season. Your assumption that Manning would do just as well as Brady if he he was in his shoes is baseless.

Your assumption that Manning wouldn't do as well as Brady is baseless.

And yeah, how dare I give credit to one of the best coaches of all-time? If you don't think this season is one of Belichick's best coaching jobs ever, then you probably need to start paying attention a little more so you understand the ins and outs of football.

You don't understand what baseless means. You need to prove your case, being "pretty sure" on your opinion of what would happen in your impossible to prove hypothetical is the very definition of baseless.

 

[Workhorse]

Since 2010, Brady has more double digit comeback wins than any QB in the NFL and tied a record for 3 straight wins down double digits in the second half. Peyton is still the MVP but that #12 kid is pretty good.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Bump

 

[SacramentoBob]

Bump

You sure you meant to bump this?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Since 2010, Brady has more double digit comeback wins than any QB in the NFL and tied a record for 3 straight wins down double digits in the second half. Peyton is still the MVP but that #12 kid is pretty good.

He's right up there with Marino as one of the best QBs never to win a SB. (Without cheating).

 

[bostonfred]

Loss today almost certainly ends his mvp candidacy, although manning could still put him back in the conversation.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Loss today almost certainly ends his mvp candidacy, although manning could still put him back in the conversation.

Yeah, not even a conversation if the Patriots don't wrestle the #1 seed away, which became very unlikely after today.

Stil, if Amendola holds on to that ball, such a big swing.

 

[ffldrew]

What's his record when it 60degrees or warmer?

Maybe Canadien league is a better place for him to play.

 

[drummer]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

 

[pizzatyme]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

As soon as he beats the top team in his division, he gets in the picture.

 

[MDSkinner]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

Crazy game for him today. With 18 minutes to play he is sitting with 20 yards rushing + a TD and 187 yards receiving with 4 TD's. Unreal. No one else on the Chiefs can even catch the ball these days (I feel bad for Smith) but Charles is a one man wrecking machine there today.

 

[drummer]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

As soon as he beats the top team in his division, he gets in the picture.

Yeah but without him, KC doesn't have that regular season record IMO.

 

[pizzatyme]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

As soon as he beats the top team in his division, he gets in the picture.

Yeah but without him, KC doesn't have that regular season record IMO.

Sure, but the same can be said for Manning, Brady, and 20 other players.

 

[drummer]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

As soon as he beats the top team in his division, he gets in the picture.

Yeah but without him, KC doesn't have that regular season record IMO.

Sure, but the same can be said for Manning, Brady, and 20 other players.

Sheesh. Ugly troll job here.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Since 2010, Brady has more double digit comeback wins than any QB in the NFL and tied a record for 3 straight wins down double digits in the second half. Peyton is still the MVP but that #12 kid is pretty good.

He's right up there with Marino as one of the best QBs never to win a SB. (Without cheating).

Elway

Brady

Marino

?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Gronk made another great case today.

 

[pizzatyme]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

As soon as he beats the top team in his division, he gets in the picture.

Yeah but without him, KC doesn't have that regular season record IMO.

Sure, but the same can be said for Manning, Brady, and 20 other players.

Sheesh. Ugly troll job here.

WTH are you talking about? Any of these teams would be far worse record-wise without their star players:

McCoy

Big Ben

Luck

Rivers

Peyton

Wilson

Stafford

Peterson

Palmer

Dalton

Flacco

Need I go on?

 

[drummer]

Bump for Jamaal Charles

As soon as he beats the top team in his division, he gets in the picture.

Yeah but without him, KC doesn't have that regular season record IMO.

Sure, but the same can be said for Manning, Brady, and 20 other players.

Sheesh. Ugly troll job here.

WTH are you talking about? Any of these teams would be far worse record-wise without their star players:

McCoy

Big Ben

Luck

Rivers

Peyton

Wilson

Stafford

Peterson

Palmer

Dalton

Flacco

Need I go on?

Yeah, keep going!

 

[PatsWillWin]

Palmer

Dalton

Flacco

Need I go on?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Gronk made another great case today.

I find it interesting it's always the Defense's credit for winning games and never giving up the lead like they did on Sunday. Oh unless someone is talking about Manning then people have no problem blaming their defense.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Since 2010, Brady has more double digit comeback wins than any QB in the NFL and tied a record for 3 straight wins down double digits in the second half. Peyton is still the MVP but that #12 kid is pretty good.

He's right up there with Marino as one of the best QBs never to win a SB. (Without cheating).

Elway

Brady

Marino

?

Elway won two SBs.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

He's a good game manager at this point -- basically Alex Smith with a better brand and 7 more attempts per game.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Since 2010, Brady has more double digit comeback wins than any QB in the NFL and tied a record for 3 straight wins down double digits in the second half. Peyton is still the MVP but that #12 kid is pretty good.

He's right up there with Marino as one of the best QBs never to win a SB. (Without cheating).

Elway

Brady

Marino

?

Elway won two SBs.

Not without cheating. I'm following your rules here Ivan. The least you can do is follow them too.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Gronk made another great case today.

I find it interesting it's always the Defense's credit for winning games and never giving up the lead like they did on Sunday. Oh unless someone is talking about Manning then people have no problem blaming their defense.

I think the difference that you are missing is that Manning scores 4 TDs and the defense gives up 40 points then blame the defense. If Manning puts up 2 TDs and the defense only gave up 24 I don't think that is the case. You act like Brady lit it up and the defense let them down. NE scored, Miami scored. It went back and forth in a good defensive game and Tennihill made it count and Brady didn't. I blame the defense if they let the other team drive down and score with no time left. Brady had time left to score but couldn't.

 

[Anarchy99]

I think we have a handle on the Patriots this year. They are good enough and bad enough to be in every game, no matter who the opponent is, and will be in position to win or lose almost every game in the last few minutes. As we just saw against the Dolphins, you can't win every game with a last minute scoring drive. If NE loses to BAL this week (which is certainly a distinct possibility), Brady's MVP chances will take a major hit (and likely knock him completely out of the race).

 

[maf005]

I think we have a handle on the Patriots this year. They are good enough and bad enough to be in every game, no matter who the opponent is, and will be in position to win or lose almost every game in the last few minutes. As we just saw against the Dolphins, you can't win every game with a last minute scoring drive. If NE loses to BAL this week (which is certainly a distinct possibility), Brady's MVP chances will take a major hit (and likely knock him completely out of the race).

This isn't a race. Brady has a ~1% chance to win this award, and that's being generous

 

[Anarchy99]

I think we have a handle on the Patriots this year. They are good enough and bad enough to be in every game, no matter who the opponent is, and will be in position to win or lose almost every game in the last few minutes. As we just saw against the Dolphins, you can't win every game with a last minute scoring drive. If NE loses to BAL this week (which is certainly a distinct possibility), Brady's MVP chances will take a major hit (and likely knock him completely out of the race).

This isn't a race. Brady has a ~1% chance to win this award, and that's being generous

I never considered it a race either and never felt Brady was a real candidate. But with Manning losing to Brady and then on position to lose the top seed (and by extension Brady earning the top seed), some people and members of the media were making it out like Brady could win.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, but that was still a very small number of people, and besides, when it comes to the media, it is boring to talk like the race is over, so they'll talk up others to try and make it look like it's an actual race, when it isn't, just so they have something to talk about.

But the truth is, Peyton lapped the competition weeks ago, and barring a bad two weeks, he'll win it easily. Jamaal Charles, who should be 2nd on anyone's list right now, might have closed the gap this past week, but he is still a lap behind.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Yeah, but that was still a very small number of people, and besides, when it comes to the media, it is boring to talk like the race is over, so they'll talk up others to try and make it look like it's an actual race, when it isn't, just so they have something to talk about.

But the truth is, Peyton lapped the competition weeks ago, and barring a bad two weeks, he'll win it easily. Jamaal Charles, who should be 2nd on anyone's list right now, might have closed the gap this past week, but he is still a lap behind.

Writers have to fill column inches, and websites want to generate clicks. Writing "Peyton Manning: Still the MVP" every week accomplishes neither goal, which is why we get this Horse Race coverage. The political media is every bit as bad. As is the media responsible for covering the NFL draft (really, there aren't "risers" and "fallers" as much as there are "guys we've never heard of but that we discovered teams have always liked" and "guys who we thought were great but we discovered that teams didn't actually like them as much"). Really, let's just say the media, in all of its forms, just loves a good horse race. Where none exists, they'll do their best to create one.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think we have a handle on the Patriots this year. They are good enough and bad enough to be in every game, no matter who the opponent is, and will be in position to win or lose almost every game in the last few minutes. As we just saw against the Dolphins, you can't win every game with a last minute scoring drive. If NE loses to BAL this week (which is certainly a distinct possibility), Brady's MVP chances will take a major hit (and likely knock him completely out of the race).

This isn't a race. Brady has a ~1% chance to win this award, and that's being generous

I never considered it a race either and never felt Brady was a real candidate. But with Manning losing to Brady and then on position to lose the top seed (and by extension Brady earning the top seed), some people and members of the media were making it out like Brady could win.

I never really thought it'd happen, but I think if Amendola holds on to that ball the other day, it would've been a legit race.

 

[Raider Nation]

Nice time to throw up a dud. I blame Flacco.

 

[Run It Up]

Nice time to throw up a dud. I blame Flacco.

Who would have guessed Flacco isn't even as good of a game manager as Brady.