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Tony Scheffler and Ernie Sims being traded? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ramblin Wreck
- Start date
Nice call!! That would be sweet.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
i agree with this...sims is an age where if he thrives in the new setting, PHI could retain him.maybe they would have taken a guy like weatherspoon (though they don't have a history of taking LBs high), but can take prospect like pouncey or mays...after weatherspoon, i don't think this is going to be a good year for OLBs (bradley returning at MLB, as it was a pre-season injury, he will have had a year of recovery/rehab)... even in a good year, what are the chances a 5th rounder would have the upside of sims?like this move a lot for the eagles (and sims, too, for that matter)...
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
Stafford and the running game probably don't stand a chance if they ask Scheff to block. Scheffler is a very good receiving TE, a nice way to create mismatches but he's not a complete TE. His inability to block resulted in the infamous Richard Quinn move last year imo.
identikit
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
What does Denver lose?
If a 5th is market value, nothing I guess. Good point
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Games starting in September.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I think Denver got about all they could hope for in this deal.
You knew it was coming...
You knew it was coming...
gianmarco
Footballguy
They only gave up Scheffler, a TE who is not a McDaniels guy (who is at this point, anyway) who honestly has never lived up to the hype and/or used correctly. No way Scheffler fetches any higher value and no way Scheffler is the key to getting the Broncos to the promised land.Oh, and he was a FA after 2010.
Futz
Footballguy
I hate to rain on the Philly parade here but Sims is undersized, overpursues, and can't shed a block. A wonderful combination for a LB. He's living off a #9 pick overall reputation. Let me remind you of who picked him: Matt Millen.
Scheffler is a viable pass catching threat and insurance for Pettigrew. Line em both up and the middle of the field gets open for CJ. Lions also get their 4th 7th round pick out of the deal. Not bad at all for them.
Denver gets rid of their headache and earns a decent pick. I like it for them.
Scheffler is a viable pass catching threat and insurance for Pettigrew. Line em both up and the middle of the field gets open for CJ. Lions also get their 4th 7th round pick out of the deal. Not bad at all for them.
Denver gets rid of their headache and earns a decent pick. I like it for them.
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Young 8
Footballguy
ROTFLthey are all "headaches".....Cutler......Marshall.......Scheffler.......maybe Nolan too
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money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher? 
Maybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
I believe you missed the point.30 rec. 346 yards and 2 TD's in 11 games.. over an offensive lineman that was the pick IMOMaybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
Sinrman
Footballguy
At first I was thinking "What the heck...!?" I like Sims and he's better than some people here give him credit for. However, the injury issue and the fact that he was going into the last year of his contract and unlikely to be re-signed by Detroit makes it not such a bad deal. Not crazy about Scheffler, but if he can help that offense, I'm for it...
You're going to the Pro Bowl for monday morning QBs, well done.I believe you missed the point.30 rec. 346 yards and 2 TD's in 11 games.. over an offensive lineman that was the pick IMOMaybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
Your sarcasm lacks any substance.You're going to the Pro Bowl for monday morning QBs, well done.I believe you missed the point.Maybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
30 rec. 346 yards and 2 TD's in 11 games.. over an offensive lineman that was the pick IMO
You draft a "franchise" QB #1 overall and pay him $60,000,000 it's not rocket science that you'd want to protect him instead of taking a TE.
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I believe you missed the point, they did take a TE. End of story.Your sarcasm lacks any substance.You're going to the Pro Bowl for monday morning QBs, well done.I believe you missed the point.Maybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
30 rec. 346 yards and 2 TD's in 11 games.. over an offensive lineman that was the pick IMO
You draft a "franchise" QB #1 overall and pay him $60,000,000 it's not rocket science that you'd want to protect him instead of taking a TE.
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
we're done here.
Prob. a good move to get rid of Sims.. cant stay healthy and in last year of contract..doesnt fit scheme anymore. And seemed Eagles had trouble with LB depth after Bradley went out. Sims can play some Middle if they needed.
Only knock besides health is his lack of big plays.. you'd think with his speed/athleticism he'd make more plays. Defense thrives on getting to the QB so could see in big play stats if he's on the field.
Prob. a good move to get rid of Sims.. cant stay healthy and in last year of contract..doesnt fit scheme anymore. And seemed Eagles had trouble with LB depth after Bradley went out. Sims can play some Middle if they needed.
Only knock besides health is his lack of big plays.. you'd think with his speed/athleticism he'd make more plays. Defense thrives on getting to the QB so could see in big play stats if he's on the field.
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money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
Just some thoughts.. re-visiting that draft in context to why they'd make this move is all I was getting at.
mikel0254
Footballguy
The move doesn't make too much sense if they're stopping here, but I believe this is just the first move of many (or at least a few) the Lions will make between now and the draft. They'll either sign Bullock, trade for a veteran LB, or make some moves and trade out of the #2 spot. For a defense with too many holes, it makes no sense to create another hole a few days before the draft without having a plan to fill it soon
Just because one team did it doesn't mean it represents fair value. New Orleans once traded all of its draft picks for Ricky Williams- would you like for your favorite team to trade away all of its draft picks this year for C.J. Spiller? San Diego traded its 3rd string QB and a late 2nd rounder in exchange for an early 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder. Would you like your favorite team to offer a similar package for Tim Brandstater (Denver's #3 QB)?The bigger problem is that Scheffler is a quality weapon in the receiving game, and McDaniels just completely ignored him/refused to use him because Scheffler didn't fit "his system". Read the game threads from the past year and see how often Denver fans were wondering where Scheffler was, or noting how good things happened when the ball was thrown his way... which made it too bad that the ball was rarely thrown his way. A smart coach tailors his system to the players he has. If a run-first offensive coordinator inherited the Indianapolis Colts offense, he'd recognize the glut of talent he had in the passing game and he'd adapt by becoming a pass-first offensive coordinator. If Josh McDaniels inherited the Indianapolis Colts, he'd trade away Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne, put Dallas Clark on the bench before eventually trading him for a 5th rounder, draft Ryan Matthews and sign Julius Jones, and then go into the season talking about how he'd eventually be able to make a quality offense out of that mess if you just gave him a bit of time.
For such a genius, McDaniels sure did have an awfully hard time figuring out a way to get two of Denver's three most talented receivers involved in the passing game.
GordonGekko said:
These posts aren't the slightest bit fair to Tony Scheffler, who isn't a headcase, a headache, a problem child, or a malcontent. He's been a model employee for the Broncos organization and a hard worker for years. His only disciplinary problems came when McDaniels suspended him for a game for complaining about his playing time... IN PRIVATE. It's not that Scheffler wanted out of Denver, it's that McDaniels has been trying to get rid of him since the moment he was hired. That's partly what upset Cutler in the first place (since Scheffler is his old roommate)- McDaniels just came in and said "I don't use a TE, we're getting rid of Scheffler" rather than giving Scheff a chance. Then, McDaniels reluctantly decided to keep Scheffler around last season (more likely, he couldn't find anyone willing to pay fair value since McDaniels had basically announced he was running a firesale on him), and Scheffler played an entire season for an organization that didn't want him and refused to use him without once issuing a single negative comment. Scheffler is a class individual and a hard worker and I wish him nothing but the best with the Lions.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Denver only got him because he was already a Bronco.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie TE in 11 games, especially considering he's a very good blocker on top of that.But he's got a torn ACL. That means the Lions need a TE again.money.never.sleeps said:I believe you missed the point.30 rec. 346 yards and 2 TD's in 11 games.. over an offensive lineman that was the pick IMO39407 said:Maybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...money.never.sleeps said:Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I think they would have made this trade even if Pettigrew was healthy.Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie TE in 11 games, especially considering he's a very good blocker on top of that.But he's got a torn ACL. That means the Lions need a TE again.money.never.sleeps said:I believe you missed the point.30 rec. 346 yards and 2 TD's in 11 games.. over an offensive lineman that was the pick IMO39407 said:Maybe Pettigrew won't have to come out of the game for Scheffler? Mindblowing concept I know, if only someone could come up with some sort of formation like that...money.never.sleeps said:Didnt the Lions draft a TE in the 1st round last year instead of taking Oher?
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
When Ernie Sims was healthy, I thought he played well for Detroit. Playing fort the Detroit Lions, especially on defense for your entire career is enough to put you into a mental institution. I could see this working out well for Philly. If he stays healthy and buys into playing for a winning team, he could play very well.
I don't know if this is a win for Detroit like so many are saying. They just spent a NO. 1 draft pick on a TE last year and now before the draft of the next season they're trading for another TE? That's not a win in my mind.
I don't know if this is a win for Detroit like so many are saying. They just spent a NO. 1 draft pick on a TE last year and now before the draft of the next season they're trading for another TE? That's not a win in my mind.
identikit
Footballguy
(Rotoworld) The Lions reportedly plan to make Tony Scheffler "a big part of their offense," using him in a Dallas Clark-like role, and intend to sign him to a long-term contract eventually.
Analysis: The idea is to go heavy on two-tight end sets (they're fully counting on Brandon Pettigrew), limiting defenses' attention on Calvin Johnson after teams rolled coverage his way in the form of triple teams last year. The biggest winner in the deal may be Johnson. A pass-first offense remains quite possible, but we'd still be quite wary of counting on Scheffler as a TE1.
Analysis: The idea is to go heavy on two-tight end sets (they're fully counting on Brandon Pettigrew), limiting defenses' attention on Calvin Johnson after teams rolled coverage his way in the form of triple teams last year. The biggest winner in the deal may be Johnson. A pass-first offense remains quite possible, but we'd still be quite wary of counting on Scheffler as a TE1.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Looks like it. Plus the Lions have Will Hellar they just gave a new deal to who is a good pass catching TE but a little weak blocking as well.Pettigrew looks like a wasted first rd pick right now. Blocking TEs are a dime a dozen.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
SSOG said:
Futz
Footballguy
Let me rephrase so that you get me a little better. I never understood Denver's "issues" with Scheffler. I'd hardly call him a malcontent or problem child. For whatever reason, Denver soured on him,and has had him on the trading block for some time. So what I'm saying is that they get rid of their headache in the sense that they wanted to move on. I believe they'll miss him more than they currently realize.SSOG said:
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Yeah, I think some Lions fans are forgetting how good Sims was his first couple years and he's young enough to get back there. Also not a huge fan of Scheffler - he's a decent receiver but if you can't block that only gets you so far.
Futz
Footballguy
...and with all due respect, I think you are completely wrong about Sims. 2.5 sacks and 1 INT in 59 games played at a playmaking position like weak side LB is terrible. Forget the stats, watching him play every down of his career is more than enough for me to say that he's a complete bust for being a top 10 pick in this league.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I have read that Jermaine Gresham isn't much of a blocker but that hasn't stop any one from putting him in the 1st round of their mock drafts.
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delusional
Footballguy
whats funny is the current starters at LB for the eagles were a 7th and undrafted ( OLBs ). so in terms of pick value, he is a upgrade but seen alot of post already saying the guy is so so
I went to a couple lions games a few years back and like all the fans were enamoured with Sims. He was touted as their best player (perhaps besides calvin johnson). Tons of Sims jerseys everywhere. It's baffling to me to hear all the negative talk about him. I haven't watched many lions games the last year or two. He must've fallen off a steep cliff or else everyone was out to lunch on him earlier?
FavreCo
Footballguy
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
That's because Gresham is more than just a "decent" receiver.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
If that's true, he better learn to or he won't be worth that 1st round selection.
Holland Freeze
Footballguy
I would make the comparison when Urlacher had problems because of the DL in front of him. Chi's DL was better than what Sims has had in front of him the past 2 years. He started out with a lot of promise and I think if the talent around him improve he might have rebounded as well.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
It probably is appropriate to label him as a bust when looking at where the Lions drafted him and what he's produced. Keep in mind the Eagles aren't paying anything close to that for him. He's going to a good defensive team, something he's never been on. In fact, one could argue that he's played on the worst NFL defense of All Time. I saw him play a lot myself, and what I saw early on in his career impressed me. I never liked that he seemed to get hurt because of his hard hitting. All I'm saying is he could get turned on for playing with the Eagles, it'll be interesting to see. It won't shock me that a player who was once on the Lions, leaves the Lions and somehow becomes a solid player, we've seen it before. You remember Pat Swilling? He was good before he came, terrible here and then left here and was good again. There are a lot of examples like that, the Lions defense is a Black Hole.
CentralPA
Footballguy
Thats why I like the trade. For what they gave up to get him I am not expecting Ray Lewis. He seems like a guy that could fit in nice with the way the Eagles play defense. He also seems fragile but in a draft where they have too many picks already giving up a 5th on some potential I don't mind at all.With the Eagles blitz-fast defense, adding a guy with Sims speed for some of the blitz packages will be quite interesting.
Wyld Stallyns
Footballguy
It's worth noting that Pettigrew's surgery went well and that he's been running on the knee with minimal swelling for the past month or so... His recovery looks to be going well so far. Link from 04/09/10.
