Tony Scheffler leaves game on crutches (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

shark move = Darrell Jackson.

 

[SSOG]

Scheffler is the #2 TE? Tell me again how Brandon Marshall isn't a top 5 WR..... I need a good laugh after ADP's puke puddle tonight. Your posts get more and more bizzare as the year goes on....

Ummm... Scheffler *IS* the #2 TE. He really, honestly, truly is. Here's the depth chart to prove it (where, oddly enough, Schef is listed as "A. Scheffler" - Anthony, perhaps?). Fdit: actually, that depth chart is absolute garbage. It's definitely supposed to be this year's depth chart, since the starting fullback (P. Hillis) is a rookie. It's not like they just never changed the depth chart from last year or anything... but that's so wrong it's scary. Eric Pears is listed as the starting RT- he's a weekly game-day inactive. Montrae Holland is listed as the starting RG- he's not even on the team! Here is a much better depth chart from the official team site. Notice Tony Scheffler right there at the #2 TE position.

Daniel Graham is the starting TE. He's the TE on the field in 1-TE sets. He's the TE that logs the most snaps of any TE on the entire roster. He's the #1 TE. Tony Scheffler is targeted more frequently in the passing game, but despite this, he is in fact the #2 TE. I never realized that it was bizarre to call a team's #2 TE their #2 TE, but I'm glad I could make your evening a little bit brighter.

Since you find it amusing when I state simple fact, here are a few more for you. Jay Cutler is Denver's starting QB. Eddie Royal is a rookie. Despite being a fullback, the team has given Spencer Larson some work at linebacker in practices and camps. Matt Prater has a pretty strong leg. Footballs are not, in fact, made out of pig skin. Rain is water that falls from the sky.

You can selectively use or disregard any stats you want, but fact is, Denver has an average rushing attack. So what if its because they have carried the ball a few times less than other teams? Maybe if there rushing game was better, they would run the ball more.

Once again, allow me to reference New England last season. I'm assuming you saw them in the playoffs. Was that the 13th best rushing offense in the league you saw? The rushing game can be very strong and still lightly used because the passing game is stronger still. Denver has a top 10 rushing attack, easily. Possibly top 5- we'll know more on that in the coming weeks.

You're drowning in semantics.In fantasy football, the guy that posts the most targets, receptions, yards, and TDs is the logical #1 TE, not the guy that logs the most snaps, throws the most blocks, or shows up first on some depth chart.

We aren't talking about Denver's FANTASY offense, though. We're talking about Denver's REAL-WORLD offense, and how much it'll be hurt. Specifically, we're talking about how much slack Denver's rushing offense will be able to pick up, and how much of its performance is a result of Denver's real-world passing game. Denver's REAL-WORLD offense lost its TE2. The running game would be more hurt by the loss of Graham than it would by the loss of Scheffler. That's why Graham is the TE1 and Scheffler is the TE2.Edit: The real-world passing game would probably be more hurt by the loss of Graham than the loss of Scheffler, as well. Scheffler is a dangerous target, but Graham is a big part of the reason why the team doesn't even bother laundering Jay Cutler's jersey after the game. An upright Jay Cutler will have an easier time finding an inferior target than a horizontal Jay Cutler would have finding a superior target. A lot of Denver's offensive success has had to do with the weapons Cutler has at his disposal, but a bigger part has to do with the fact that Cutler's only been truly sacked once in 5 games, and pressured not much more than that. Even bad receivers can get open if you give them enough time.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Guys, what's the play here? Will Graham remain in the game on passing downs, or will Jackson take over Scheffler's role?

And if Graham ends up playing the entire game, do we downgrade the running game (since he'll be going out for passes instead of blocking)?

 

[davearm]

Scheffler is the #2 TE? Tell me again how Brandon Marshall isn't a top 5 WR..... I need a good laugh after ADP's puke puddle tonight. Your posts get more and more bizzare as the year goes on....

Ummm... Scheffler *IS* the #2 TE. He really, honestly, truly is. Here's the depth chart to prove it (where, oddly enough, Schef is listed as "A. Scheffler" - Anthony, perhaps?). Fdit: actually, that depth chart is absolute garbage. It's definitely supposed to be this year's depth chart, since the starting fullback (P. Hillis) is a rookie. It's not like they just never changed the depth chart from last year or anything... but that's so wrong it's scary. Eric Pears is listed as the starting RT- he's a weekly game-day inactive. Montrae Holland is listed as the starting RG- he's not even on the team! Here is a much better depth chart from the official team site. Notice Tony Scheffler right there at the #2 TE position.

Daniel Graham is the starting TE. He's the TE on the field in 1-TE sets. He's the TE that logs the most snaps of any TE on the entire roster. He's the #1 TE. Tony Scheffler is targeted more frequently in the passing game, but despite this, he is in fact the #2 TE. I never realized that it was bizarre to call a team's #2 TE their #2 TE, but I'm glad I could make your evening a little bit brighter.

Since you find it amusing when I state simple fact, here are a few more for you. Jay Cutler is Denver's starting QB. Eddie Royal is a rookie. Despite being a fullback, the team has given Spencer Larson some work at linebacker in practices and camps. Matt Prater has a pretty strong leg. Footballs are not, in fact, made out of pig skin. Rain is water that falls from the sky.

You can selectively use or disregard any stats you want, but fact is, Denver has an average rushing attack. So what if its because they have carried the ball a few times less than other teams? Maybe if there rushing game was better, they would run the ball more.

Once again, allow me to reference New England last season. I'm assuming you saw them in the playoffs. Was that the 13th best rushing offense in the league you saw? The rushing game can be very strong and still lightly used because the passing game is stronger still. Denver has a top 10 rushing attack, easily. Possibly top 5- we'll know more on that in the coming weeks.

You're drowning in semantics.In fantasy football, the guy that posts the most targets, receptions, yards, and TDs is the logical #1 TE, not the guy that logs the most snaps, throws the most blocks, or shows up first on some depth chart.

We aren't talking about Denver's FANTASY offense, though. We're talking about Denver's REAL-WORLD offense, and how much it'll be hurt. Specifically, we're talking about how much slack Denver's rushing offense will be able to pick up, and how much of its performance is a result of Denver's real-world passing game. Denver's REAL-WORLD offense lost its TE2. The running game would be more hurt by the loss of Graham than it would by the loss of Scheffler. That's why Graham is the TE1 and Scheffler is the TE2.

The most bizarre definition of a TE1 yet.I guess that makes Brandon Manumaleuna the Chargers' TE1, not Gates.

As for which guy is more integral to the success of the Broncos' offense, most would argue that the value of a guy like Scheffler that can block OK but is a strong receiving threat, and thus will draw more attention from the defense (and keep the safeties out of the box), would be more valuable to both the passing and running games than is a guy who isn't much of a receiving threat at all, but can block well.

If that were not the case, and blocking skill was paramount at the TE spot, then teams would simply line up in their "jumbo" packages with an extra tackle or two more often. In fact that wouldn't be "jumbo" at all -- it would be the team's base alignment if your argument is to be believed.

 

[SSOG]

The most bizarre definition of a TE1 yet.I guess that makes Brandon Manumaleuna the Chargers' TE1, not Gates.As for which guy is more integral to the success of the Broncos' offense, most would argue that the value of a guy like Scheffler that can block OK but is a strong receiving threat, and thus will draw more attention from the defense (and keep the safeties out of the box), would be more valuable to both the passing and running games than is a guy who isn't much of a receiving threat at all, but can block well.If that were not the case, and blocking skill was paramount at the TE spot, then teams would simply line up in their "jumbo" packages with an extra tackle or two more often. In fact that wouldn't be "jumbo" at all -- it would be the team's base alignment if your argument is to be believed.

What's bizarre of the definition? The TE that is listed as #1 on the official depth chart, that starts the game, and that plays the majority of the team's offensive snaps is the TE1. That's Daniel Graham. Bizarre? If you say so.Most casual fans would argue the value of Scheffler, because he's the guy making the flashy plays. Graham is, iirc, the third-highest paid TE in the entire league. Denver didn't pay him like that to make him a footnote, and he hasn't been. Scheffler is basically a WR at the TE position. Graham is basically an LT at the TE position.Arguing that teams would just use tackles as TEs if blocking were so important misses two important facts. First, Graham is a very capable receiver. Second, TEs are eligible receivers and offensive linemen aren't. What's that mean? Linemen are by rule tied to the line of scrimmage during the entire play, while TEs are free to roam downfield. As a result, the skillset required for blocking TEs is different than the skillset required for LTs.

 

[Jackal King]

All I want to know is....how long is Scheffler out?

Anyone have some information?

 

[moleculo]

The most bizarre definition of a TE1 yet.I guess that makes Brandon Manumaleuna the Chargers' TE1, not Gates.As for which guy is more integral to the success of the Broncos' offense, most would argue that the value of a guy like Scheffler that can block OK but is a strong receiving threat, and thus will draw more attention from the defense (and keep the safeties out of the box), would be more valuable to both the passing and running games than is a guy who isn't much of a receiving threat at all, but can block well.If that were not the case, and blocking skill was paramount at the TE spot, then teams would simply line up in their "jumbo" packages with an extra tackle or two more often. In fact that wouldn't be "jumbo" at all -- it would be the team's base alignment if your argument is to be believed.

What's bizarre of the definition? The TE that is listed as #1 on the official depth chart, that starts the game, and that plays the majority of the team's offensive snaps is the TE1. That's Daniel Graham. Bizarre? If you say so.Most casual fans would argue the value of Scheffler, because he's the guy making the flashy plays. Graham is, iirc, the third-highest paid TE in the entire league. Denver didn't pay him like that to make him a footnote, and he hasn't been. Scheffler is basically a WR at the TE position. Graham is basically an LT at the TE position.Arguing that teams would just use tackles as TEs if blocking were so important misses two important facts. First, Graham is a very capable receiver. Second, TEs are eligible receivers and offensive linemen aren't. What's that mean? Linemen are by rule tied to the line of scrimmage during the entire play, while TEs are free to roam downfield. As a result, the skillset required for blocking TEs is different than the skillset required for LTs.

isn't Graham a team captain?

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Daniel Graham has long been one of the most under appreciated and misunderstood NFL players, in terms of his impact on the game, by guys on FF boards. I can't tell you how many times I have seen him been labeled a bust or overpaid. Utter nonsense. He is a very smart and very tough guy, knows every TE route, a tremendous blocker who often handles quality pass rushers straight up to allow the tackle to cheat to middle of the OLine. This alleviates pressure up the middle- he was a huge reason why Brady had time to make guys like Givens, Caldwell etc actually look like decent NFL receivers. His receiving became more consistent (early in his career, he had the same problems that plague Ben Watson- would make highlight catches but too often muff a routine one) every yeaR. There was a reason NE traded up to get him in round 1. There is also a reason that both Denver and Seattle were willing to throw a bunch of money at him the moment he became a free agent.

Edit: NE sorely missed him when their OLine was being violated in the Super Bowl last year.

 

[3C's]

shark move = Darrell Jackson.

If Royal is out, good possibility but it sounds like Royal will play.

 

[moleculo]

shark move = Darrell Jackson.

If Royal is out, good possibility but it sounds like Royal will play.

agreed. Above post was made under assumption Royal would be out for a couple of weeks.

 

[Xue]

shark move = Darrell Jackson.

If Royal is out, good possibility but it sounds like Royal will play.

agreed. Above post was made under assumption Royal would be out for a couple of weeks.

I'd rather have Brandon Stokley.

 

[SSOG]

All I want to know is....how long is Scheffler out?Anyone have some information?

He's missing this week for sure. It's possible that he'll be back as soon as the week after.

 

[PatrickT]

Did we ever get confirmation on the sports hernia rumor either way?

 

[captbly]

Did we ever get confirmation on the sports hernia rumor either way?

someone in my league panicked and cut him...oh well.. his loss my gain. I have Witten so I am good till week 10 (Hope Johnson likes Witten like Romo)http://cbs4denver.com/sports/scheffler.inj...r.2.834176.html

Scheffler Says He Won't Be Out Too Long

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By Arnie Stapleton, AP Sports Writer

DENVER (AP) ― It appears that Tony Scheffler's groin injury isn't nearly as serious as the one that knocked out fellow tight end Nate Jackson last season.

Scheffler said it was unlikely he'd play Sunday against Jacksonville but didn't speculate about how long he'll be sidelined.

He said he didn't have a sports hernia.

 

[skillz]

I've been hanging onto him in a small roster league but the fact that he plays his next game on Monday night v NE is a problem. If he is a game time decision, then folks will be forced to start another TE option instead of waiting for the final decision on Monday night. Also, since he has a bye in week 8 it wouldn't surprise me if he sits out again this week so the team can give him three weeks to heal his groin injury.

 

[SSOG]

Who said anything about an individual RB? Denver ranks 15th in rushing yards per game. That tells me their running attack has been average, not "strong". Their yards per carry is high because of a great passing game, if the passing game suffers, so will the YPC.

Also, their 5 rushing TD's is 5th in the league? That is 1 per game, 15 other teams have averaged 1 or more rushing TD's per game.

My stats were for the NFL coming into today, because the day's action wasn't yet over and couldn't yet be considered. Coming into today Denver ranked 5th in rushing TDs. They ranked 12th in rushing yards, but a large part of that was a result of them ranking 16th in rush attempts. Ranking running games by total yards is stupid, because the teams with the most yards are usually the teams with the most attempts. A better stat that raw yards is yards per carry, but that has its own limitations- for instance, Pittman has a low ypc because he's used primarily in short yardage... but he gets a first down more than 50% of the time when he gets the ball. A better stat than yards per carry is success rate, but that has its own limitations- for instance, a good success rate against a terrible run defense counts the same as a good success rate against a great run defense. A better stat than success rate is DVOA. Regardless, look at any stat other than total yards and Denver's running game has been very strong this season. VERY strong.Football Outsiders also ranks Denver 1st in adjusted line yards, a statistic designed to measure how consistently an offensive line is opening holes in the running game

You can selectively use or disregard any stats you want, but fact is, Denver has an average rushing attack. So what if its because they have carried the ball a few times less than other teams? Maybe if there rushing game was better, they would run the ball more.

So... not only did Scheffler and Royal miss time, but things were even WORSE for the Denver passing attack, as Stokley got injured in the second quarter. And despite this, Denver now ranks 7th in rushing yards (which seems to be your preferred method of measuring the quality of a running game) and 5th in yards per attempt. Denver averaged 5.7 yards per rush in its last game despite the passing game that was "keeping defenses honest" averaging only 5.2 yards per attempt.Is 7th above average? Is 5th? Is it possible that Denver's rushing attack was really good BEFORE the passing game tapered off, too, it just wasn't featured as heavily? Could this have possibly played out any truer to how I said it would? How highly would Denver rank in rushing yards right now if Shanahan hadn't been calling so many passing plays early in the season? Tune in for the answers to these questions and more as the season progresses.

 

[FUBAR]

Who said anything about an individual RB? Denver ranks 15th in rushing yards per game. That tells me their running attack has been average, not "strong". Their yards per carry is high because of a great passing game, if the passing game suffers, so will the YPC.

Also, their 5 rushing TD's is 5th in the league? That is 1 per game, 15 other teams have averaged 1 or more rushing TD's per game.

My stats were for the NFL coming into today, because the day's action wasn't yet over and couldn't yet be considered. Coming into today Denver ranked 5th in rushing TDs. They ranked 12th in rushing yards, but a large part of that was a result of them ranking 16th in rush attempts. Ranking running games by total yards is stupid, because the teams with the most yards are usually the teams with the most attempts. A better stat that raw yards is yards per carry, but that has its own limitations- for instance, Pittman has a low ypc because he's used primarily in short yardage... but he gets a first down more than 50% of the time when he gets the ball. A better stat than yards per carry is success rate, but that has its own limitations- for instance, a good success rate against a terrible run defense counts the same as a good success rate against a great run defense. A better stat than success rate is DVOA. Regardless, look at any stat other than total yards and Denver's running game has been very strong this season. VERY strong.Football Outsiders also ranks Denver 1st in adjusted line yards, a statistic designed to measure how consistently an offensive line is opening holes in the running game

You can selectively use or disregard any stats you want, but fact is, Denver has an average rushing attack. So what if its because they have carried the ball a few times less than other teams? Maybe if there rushing game was better, they would run the ball more.

So... not only did Scheffler and Royal miss time, but things were even WORSE for the Denver passing attack, as Stokley got injured in the second quarter. And despite this, Denver now ranks 7th in rushing yards (which seems to be your preferred method of measuring the quality of a running game) and 5th in yards per attempt. Denver averaged 5.7 yards per rush in its last game despite the passing game that was "keeping defenses honest" averaging only 5.2 yards per attempt.Is 7th above average? Is 5th? Is it possible that Denver's rushing attack was really good BEFORE the passing game tapered off, too, it just wasn't featured as heavily? Could this have possibly played out any truer to how I said it would? How highly would Denver rank in rushing yards right now if Shanahan hadn't been calling so many passing plays early in the season? Tune in for the answers to these questions and more as the season progresses.

Bully for you. They ran for 20 more yards in the game than Jacksonville gives up on average. They had a good game against an average defense. With the Broncos playing a bad run D this week, they should have more success.

Denver's running game is above average, but it's not as good as its current ranking.

 

[SSOG]

Denver's running game is above average, but it's not as good as its current ranking.

Time will tell, I suppose.