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Tre Mason (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JackReacher
- Start date
steveski
Footballguy
The question isn't how many starters we get out of this RB class, but how we will rank them since every RB in this class is the best RB to ever play the game?
Bamac
Footballguy
That's because you own Stacy.
I agree with Brewtown ... as usual people are over thinking the situation.
If Fantasy Football did not exist there would be nothing to discuss here .... 90% of us would all agree that Mason is more talented then Stacy.
Stacy was a 5th round pick with limited talent. He ended up in a perfect situation but still only put up OK numbers.
Tre Mason would have been a 1st or 2nd round talent if RBs had not been so devalued ... put him in the same situation that Stacy was in last year and you will see some excellent all around #s
I had that opinion of Mason before the draft, sorry.
I think he can be good but i don't see a major talent difference between the two, not saying he is a scrub.
In leagues where i have Stacy i may target Mason as a handcuff but in other's he's not a guy i would draft ahead of other players in the top 11-15 picks.
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cstu
Footballguy
RBM
Footballguy
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Something tells me that their line is going to be pretty good: http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/54/files/2014/05/tre-mason-greg-robinson-nfl-st.-louis-rams-rookie-minicamp-590x900.jpg
#79 is a BAD man!!
#79 is a BAD man!!
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I don't own Stacy, own Mason in one league, and think Stacy will be the primary ball carrier this year. In the future, I don't think Mason is a slam dunk to dominate Stacy, but I do think he has the talent to possibly take over.monk said:
There is already a poll on this. Redraft (Stacy - 75%, Mason - 15%), Dynasty (Mason - 55%, Stacy - 25%), but even the latter is nowhere close to 90%. There are just as many Mason as Stacy owner's out there.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=707180&hl=%2Bstacy+%2Bmason
Stacy isn't completely bereft of talent. He led the SEC in rushing in 2012. His 40 time, 10/20 yard splits and shuttle were similar to Mason (not sure if Mason did the 3 cone drill, his VJ was much more explosive and impressive) and he weighs about 225 lbs. now.
He only played 12 games, but was pacing for about 1,300 yards and 10 TDs (the bad games at the end are priced in to the proration), with Kellen Clemens as his starting QB for 9/12 starts, in one of the most competive divisions since realignment/merger (NFC West out of division winning record of .750 was tied best since realignment, second-best since merger). There have been future Pro Bowl RBs that had a 3.9 yard per carry average or worse as rookie. They added one of the most dominant run blockers in recent memory with Robinson (that will of course help his Auburn teammate Mason as well), re-signed Saffold, who can be a great run blocker, making him one of the highest paid guards in the league. Their defense should be improved (Donald, Joyner, DC Williams).
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Despite having only one touch in the first four weeks last year, Stacy still almost put 1,000 yards, had 26 catches and scored 8 touchdowns, so despite the tough division, the potential is there for the Rams RB to do well, if one of them holds on to the job and gets the lion's share of the touches. And the Week 17 game at Seattle is after the fantasy season is over, so that helps, too.
This is laughable. Cherry picking recent success in that range means nothing unless you honestly believe a strong correlation exists between that range and NFL success (hint: it doesn't). Guys drafted much higher than those picks ended up busts. It is pure coincidence that those 3rd round guys panned out. Here's a comprehensive list of guys drafted in the third round or higher since 2010:
2010
Spiller (9) - 1 top 24 season (#7)
Mathews (12) - 2 top 24 seasons (#7 and #12)
Best (30)
McCluster (36)
Gerhart (51)
Tate (58)
Hardesty (59)
2011
Ingram (28)
R.Williams (38)
Vereen (56)
Leshoure (57) - 1 top 24 season (#20)
D.Thomas (62)
Murray (71) - 1 top 24 season (#8)
Ridley (73) - 1 top 24 season (#10)
A.Green (96)
2012
Richardson (3)
Martin (31) - 1 top 24 season (#3)
Wilson (32)
Pead (50)
L.James (61)
Hillman (67)
Pierce (84)
2013
Bernard (37) (#16)
Bell (48) (#15)
Ball (58)
Lacy (61) (#7)
Michael (62)
K.Davis (96)
----------------
Stacy (160) (#18)
TL;DR - Stacy has likely already had more top 24 seasons than Mason will have.
Mason could be a good RB, but if you are betting on him, you are betting on some long odds. If I had Mason, I'd do what I could to acquire Stacy. If I had Stacy, I'd acquire Mason if the price is right, but there's at least a 75% chance he's nothing more than an injury handcuff at best. Would not be shocked to see Cunningham have a better career than Mason. Just being realistic. Go back farther than 2010 if you want. The odds of a 3rd rounder finding NFL success aren't as good as recent history suggests.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The reason is likely because he's the more explosive back and many people equate "excitement level" with talent. I like Mason a lot, but Stacy is a very solid back, that is good in all aspects of the game. He's not flashy, but then neither were guys like Curtis Martin or Eddie George. Mason is the type of back that can accumulate stats (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way) if he has the faith of his coaching staff.
There are many "talents" to playing RB that don't pop out at viewers like vision (to see holes and follow blockers, balance, strength, subtly avoiding big hits, etc.) - Stacy excels at many of these traits. Mason is likely to make more highlight type plays, but a coach like Fisher is ok with a grinder type back like Stacy.
I agree with the poster above, where "time will tell" on this one. I know that stance isn't any fun and perhaps not all that valuable on a fantasy football message board but sometimes we just have to accept it. Rostering both if feasible is probably the best approach right now.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He produced like he had [SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Clemmens playing QB ... averaging under 4 yard per carry despite leading the league in carries per game.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]It's all about the opportunity ... the more attempts you get the more likely you are to produce. A more talented back like Mason will produce much better numbers given the same oopprotunity [/SIZE]
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Do you disagree with that statement or are you trying to imply I said something that I didn't say?
cstu
Footballguy
Stacy could be a a good RB too. Carrying the ball a lot for a below average YPC and being a poor a receiver doesn't signal to me that he has a firm hold on the starting job long-term. I do expect him to keep the starting job this year but he's shown me little so far other than he can handle a lot of carries.
Not great, but Cunningham did at least show potential last year in his limited opportunities. And I think he was once a highly touted recruit. I should be more versed on this than I am, but I recall reading some information about him that gave me the takeaway that I should not dismiss him as some UDFA hack going forward - that he's at least worth keeping an eye on. Sorry I don't have better recollection.
C'mon. This has all been previously addressed. It's been a couple month since this information was fresh on my mind, but these quips about ypc and ypr are foolish.
YPC: Stacy played in one of the toughest divisions, if not the toughest, for running backs. During his 12 games, his team ranked 31st in passing. Not really doing much to alleviate the stacked boxes he was facing. Plenty of extremely good/successful RBs have had worse YPC in their first year or two.
YPR: This statistic is highly variable for RBs. It is also dependent on the type of passes they are catching. Bell was running routes downfield last year whereas Stacy was just catching dump offs near the LoS. That doesn't make him a poor receiver. Usage matters as much or more than ability when talking about YPR.
But look, you're going to see what you want to see. If you have Mason, you are going to ignore the factors against Stacy last year and say he's a plodder and that a 5th round pick is nothing and you're going to look at Mason, who is only a few hundredths of a second faster than Stacy while being smaller, and say he's a homerun hitter and that a third round pick is an early draft pick.
I recall last year people were saying that, historically, a 2nd round RB had about a 25% hit rate, yet people here talk about Mason as if he's a sure thing. He ran behind a great o-line in the SEC... He's got to be legit, right? So did Ingram and Richardson who were drafted in the first round and can be had for pennies on the dollar now. If you believe in Mason, probably best to avoid him this year and trade for him next year. He's not big, he runs a 4.50, he can't pass block, and he's starting behind a young back who has shown the ability to play at the NFL level.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
To be fair, STL has a pretty rocking o-line, and he'll also be running behind future HoF'r Greg Robinson.... whom he already has a fantastic understanding with at Auburn. I dont think that connection should be underestimated
Now, yes... Stacy will also be running behind that line, but he just isnt as talented as the Masonic Temple, imo.
I've seen it ranked between 8th and 18th as far as run blocking, so yeah, it was good, not great. Cincy had a better line, weaker division, and much better passing attack, yet nobody bats and eye when Gio only puts up 4.1 ypc and they draft a RB in the 2nd round. Weird, huh?
cstu
Footballguy
Gio also caught 56 passes at 9.2 YPR. A far cry from Stacy's 26 at 5.4 YPR.
If Stacy had been a good receiver like Gio or Bell then I wouldn't have any questions about him keeping his job. As it is he looks like a two down back who could be replaced by a RB with better all-around skills.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Tre Mason - RB - Rams
Rams coach Jeff Fisher labeled rookie Tre Mason as a "change-of-pace back" following May's draft.
Mason could earn complementary carries off the bench this season, but rumors of him threatening bellcow Zac Stacy's starting job are unfounded. "Tre is a change-of-pace back," said Fisher. "Good zone runner, obviously the numbers speak for themselves. He was a guy we just couldn't pass up at that point." Pre-draft reports claimed Mason would need wrist surgery, but the Rams disagreed. "He may have to do something after the season but it was not a concern of ours, nor was it a concern of the doctors," Fisher said of the wrist.
Source: Montgomery Advertiser
Jul 23 - 12:11 PM
Rams coach Jeff Fisher labeled rookie Tre Mason as a "change-of-pace back" following May's draft.
Mason could earn complementary carries off the bench this season, but rumors of him threatening bellcow Zac Stacy's starting job are unfounded. "Tre is a change-of-pace back," said Fisher. "Good zone runner, obviously the numbers speak for themselves. He was a guy we just couldn't pass up at that point." Pre-draft reports claimed Mason would need wrist surgery, but the Rams disagreed. "He may have to do something after the season but it was not a concern of ours, nor was it a concern of the doctors," Fisher said of the wrist.
Source: Montgomery Advertiser
Jul 23 - 12:11 PM
Chimp Magnet
Footballguy
What the hell does this Fisher guy know? People in here have declared Mason the back of the future. That's enough for me.
False Start
Footballguy
Coaches always tell the truth, they never lie or deceive the media at all.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
This sounds like an old quote repackaged by that media source.
Since that time, STL has said it is an open competition to sort out the RB depth chart.
That said, health permitting, I think Stacy will get the bulk of the carries in 2014. Next year could be a different story.
Oh I do. I think they'll be improved. Looking back, I read it wrong. I thought he was talking about last year, attributing Stacy's success to the O-line. Their line last year was ranked 8th-18th in run blocking.
Yeah, the new line should be better as should the passing attack. That's why I like Stacy.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Sounds like a ploy to motivateTatum Mason...... errrrrr Tre MasonSkeletore Eh said:
Nero
Footballguy
I disagree with most everything you said here and I think Mason is the best back in this years' class. That is because I think Stacy was the best back in last years' class and Mason would not have had any better numbers. Given the circumstances, I think Stacy performance was impressive. If Bradford starts as he did last year, Stacy's job will be that much easier. The Rams have added Britt, and Givens was non-existent without Bradley, and Austin is a year wiser. I think Stacy is a top 15 lock with top 5 potential.
12punch
Footballguy
Sinrman
Footballguy
Stacy will certainly be the starter, and unless he fumbles a lot, is underwhelming after a bunch of games, or gets hurt, then I don't see Mason taking a lot away from him this season. I can see them easing Mason into things, and taking their time with him. As really any RB has to when they enter the NFL he has to get the picking up blitzes and such down first. If he can't even do that, he won't see the field much. If he does, then he'll get a little work here and there.
Top 5 isn't as special as it used to be when 300 carry backs were common. Moreno snuck in there last year. You either have to be a special player (5 ypc, 9 ypr), heavily used in the receiving game, or a goal line back. 1500 combined yards and 15 touchdowns should do the trick. From weeks 5-16, Stacy was on pace for 1559/12. With an improved line and better offense, it isn't a stretch of the imagination.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a top 5 finish, just pointing out that it isn't as special as you think. He would need health, over 300 total touches, and plenty of goal line work. Plus, there's usually an injury or two to the guys you are expecting to finish top 5.
bulger2holt
Footballguy
Tre Mason is the most talented RB on the Rams roster. He's going to be a stud. Has the "it" factor. Stacy will be the between tackles runner and goal line back.
