werdnoynek
Footballguy
I missed that too.
He looked very good running the ball. He always looks so decisive running with burst through the hole. It looks like he's still in an Auburn jersey shredding SEC defenses.
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Tre Mason (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JackReacher
- Start date
He looked very good running the ball. He always looks so decisive running with burst through the hole. It looks like he's still in an Auburn jersey shredding SEC defenses.
Nero
Footballguy
Watched him again and realize I missed one in the first half.menobrown said:
With about 1:50 left in the first half I guess you could say he did an ok job. But he was high and outside the frame of the LB. If they had thrown a holding flag you would not have been able to complain.
At 14:12 third quarter, there was corner blitz. The corner came free and made the sack. The LB Mason picked up easily threw him to the side.
At 7:20ish third quarter LB blitz. Mason did a little better than the previous time, but the LB gets around him shortly after contact, but the sack is made by someone else.
At about 3:37 in the third, there was a speed out to TE out the back field. Mason was left to block the DE. He attempted to cut him, presumably to keep him from getting hands in the passing lane. He did not get the DE on the ground, but he did impede his up field progress enough to where he did not have an attempt to block the pass.
He is not physical at the point of contact. I doubt this game would give the coaching staff any reason to trust him in pass protection.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
let's not get ahead of ourselves..who's kidding who when it comes to Mason and his perceived lack of pass blocking technique??! Rams ranked 28th in pass/att , 27th in pass yards in '13...they were 17th in attemps the year before..what does that say? they didn't draft Robinson to be a pass blocker, the drafted him so that they could pound the living crap out of opposing defenses with his run-blocking style, and they'll be VERY successful at doing it..they're not going to have him in a passing downs..he's there to bull over defenders, not to block them on their way in to sack Bradford..
it's comical that people so intently focus on the lack of pass blocking on a guy who isn't there to pass block in the first place..
" in a combined 23 years of work (Fisher’s 17 as a head coach plus Schottenheimer’s six as the Jets’ OC), their teams ranked in the top 10 in rushing yardage 11 times and in the top five six times, with an average rank of 11th; over that same span their teams ranked in the top 10 in passing yardage just thrice, with an average rank of 19th. "
source,thehuddle.com
they're not going to try to pass the ball like Denver or New Orleans, they're going to run around, over, under, and through defenses..
here, let Grover show you what I mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKu3NE7Omkw
it's comical that people so intently focus on the lack of pass blocking on a guy who isn't there to pass block in the first place..
" in a combined 23 years of work (Fisher’s 17 as a head coach plus Schottenheimer’s six as the Jets’ OC), their teams ranked in the top 10 in rushing yardage 11 times and in the top five six times, with an average rank of 11th; over that same span their teams ranked in the top 10 in passing yardage just thrice, with an average rank of 19th. "
source,thehuddle.com
they're not going to try to pass the ball like Denver or New Orleans, they're going to run around, over, under, and through defenses..
here, let Grover show you what I mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKu3NE7Omkw
I guess we have different expectations. He's a RB, not an OL. His job is impede the progress of DL and LB's but he can't be expected to stonewall them or get them to the ground with any kind of consistency. I thought he was plenty physical and gave the coaching staff all kinds of reason to trust him in pass protection.
Here is an excerpt from the Rams beat writer for ESPN: Perhaps the most impressive play of his night was a blitz pickup in the second half when he stood up a pass-rusher as if he'd been doing it for years. That's one way to fast track himself onto the field more as a rookie. http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/10389/rams-rewind-preseason-opener
Also I'm not going back to re-watch and did not keep track of how many times he pass blocked but it seemed a lot more than 3. PFF has him down for 5 pass blocks, no sacks, no hurries, no hits, and a 100% PBE rating which pretty much matches up what I saw.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
and an uppercut to the jaws of Stacy owners.
oh, and funny how noone mentioned HOF'er Marshall Faulk OOZING in the booth about Mason the entire time he played. "a 25-30 touch back" he called him... "better as the game progresses"
But hey, we all see what we wanna see, right?
oh, and how long was his rush of his that got called back for a completely non related holding call? 20yds or so? nice.
mason is a STUD
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socrates
Footballguy
I think you may be reading far too much into that blurb. It appears to me to be not an uppercut to Stacy owners, but perhaps more of a jab to Cunningham owners.
steveski
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
yeah, a handful of guys even smarter than the genius mason owners that outsmarted the brilliant stacy owners.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
How so? the loveseat coaches on this forum cannot get enough of how Mason cant pass protect, as if that's the main job of a RB.
said it before, and Ill say it again.. He is more than capable... and behind that 1st team o-line, pass protection isnt going to be a major concern. it's a brick wall.
mason is just the better runner. stacy is a good runner, Im not denying that. I own stacy. but I fully expect that within a few weeks, or in the chance of injury, Mason will be the lead dog in that backfield.
He's just too good.
socrates
Footballguy
The quote you responded to above acknowledges Stacy as the bellcow back and suggests Mason may be earning an increased role behind Stacy.
I think it is fair to stay that few astute fantasy owners believe Cunningham's role ahead of Mason is likely more than temporary.
You mention Mason is the better runner. What have you seen from Mason which you believe makes him the superior runner? What weaknesses have you seen in Stacy's game which suggest he will fall behind Mason on the RB depth chart?
I think it is fair to stay that few astute fantasy owners believe Cunningham's role ahead of Mason is likely more than temporary.
You mention Mason is the better runner. What have you seen from Mason which you believe makes him the superior runner? What weaknesses have you seen in Stacy's game which suggest he will fall behind Mason on the RB depth chart?
Homeboy is delusional. No point in trying to talk reason with him. He's always going to see what he wants to see. Confirmation bias out the wazoo.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
And I acknowledged that by stating that it would take a few weeks for Mason to supplant Stacy as the lead dog.
Hey, if Im wrong, Im wrong... I just continue to plug in Stacy at the RB spot in my dyno team
Soulfly3
Footballguy
socrates
Footballguy
I am a Tre Mason supporter, and I am hopeful I can grab him in my Dynasty League Draft. However, I am yet convinced he is going to surpass Stacy as the lead back any time soon. If Mason challenges Stacy this season, which I acknowledge is a possibility, what makes you think this will be anything more than a RBBC? IMHO, barring a Stacy injury, it would take either Stacy falling flat on his face or Mason emerging as a rare talent too good to remove from the lineup to force Stacy to the bench. I have seen no indication of either to this point. While I agree Mason is not 'JAG', he also has given me no reason to think he is going to be an elite talent at the position. For those on the Mason side of this argument, do you believe Mason is an elite RB?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Elite? Not sure.
Elite potential? Yes, absolutely.
I remember having arguments last year about Mason, and how he was apparently a product of Robinson. Well... here we are in the NFL, and who is he behind? Robinson. Oh, and a group of other guys that are monsters.
Zac Stacy did not impress me at all last year. Fantasy wise he was a good grab because of volume numbers. 3.9ypc doesnt get me excited.
Stacy has the chance to improve this season. Of course.... But let's say for arguments sake, that's what he is. a 3.9ypc runner.... Mason starts getting carries w the 1st team and starts popping at a better rate... it continues....
why wouldnt he get the lions share of carries?
Ive seen Stacy in the NFL, be it for only 1 year. Mason hasnt had a single carry yet in a meaningful game. We can only project. But watching Auburn all year long (that's my team), I love his talent, vision, power and ruthless attitude... I think he will be a better pro runner than Stacy.
But only time will tell.
Mason's interview during the game fired me right up: "I gotta eat... I'm a savage" (paraphrased). That's what I wanna hear. If he backs it up, he'll get more and more of that ball
Elite potential? Yes, absolutely.
I remember having arguments last year about Mason, and how he was apparently a product of Robinson. Well... here we are in the NFL, and who is he behind? Robinson. Oh, and a group of other guys that are monsters.
Zac Stacy did not impress me at all last year. Fantasy wise he was a good grab because of volume numbers. 3.9ypc doesnt get me excited.
Stacy has the chance to improve this season. Of course.... But let's say for arguments sake, that's what he is. a 3.9ypc runner.... Mason starts getting carries w the 1st team and starts popping at a better rate... it continues....
why wouldnt he get the lions share of carries?
Ive seen Stacy in the NFL, be it for only 1 year. Mason hasnt had a single carry yet in a meaningful game. We can only project. But watching Auburn all year long (that's my team), I love his talent, vision, power and ruthless attitude... I think he will be a better pro runner than Stacy.
But only time will tell.
Mason's interview during the game fired me right up: "I gotta eat... I'm a savage" (paraphrased). That's what I wanna hear. If he backs it up, he'll get more and more of that ball
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Did you happen to watch the Rams before Stacy started getting the football (with or without Bradford)? If you did, then you know that the Rams' offense was among the most rudderless units in the NFL. They were lost at sea. Then Zac Stacy came along and their entire offensive suddenly had an identity as a ground & pound as if Fischer had crafted it back in TN. But the difference, and most people acknowledged this, was Stacy's role.
Any shoes in that offense tat Mason fills for Stacy were created by Stacy; which makes it all the less likely that Mason would replace him in all but injury situations. 3.9 YPC was, in fact, pretty damn impressive given who the quarterback was and that there were 8 in the box routinely.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Mason had a commendable, explosive 20 yard run.
But we should put the balance of his game in perspective. Is pointing out he had 31 yards in his other 14 carries, for slightly better than 2 yards per carry, against reserves a haymaker or Chuck Norris roundhouse kick to the head (more importantly, can we make a point without hokey pugilistic/martial arts references shtick
).
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
Mason looked good, but I want to see him w the 1s before I make any definitive statements.Mason had a commendable, explosive 20 yard run.
But we should put the balance of his game in perspective. Is pointing out he had 31 yards in his other 14 carries, for slightly better than 2 yards per carry, against reserves a haymaker or Chuck Norris roundhouse kick to the head (more importantly, can we make a point without hokey pugilistic/martial arts references shtick
I dont think running behind the 2/3s on the online did him many favors - he was tackled sometimes in unison w when he received the ball. we both saw that more than once
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
Interesting take.
Especially considering that the 2 previous years to Stacy's arrival, the Rams #1 RB ran for 4.1 and 4.4ypc.
Both BETTER than wait Stacy did last season.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
You raise some good points.
First of all, Mason could unexpectedly be a quick study at pass blocking despite the Auburn scheme-related technical rawness relative to even other rookies (same with Greg Robinson).
STL may have passed less with Clemens, it sounds like they were middle of the pack in pass attempts in 2012. SEA and SF had about a 50/50 pass/run split, which I think were the most run heavy in the league on a percentage basis. Without referencing it, STL was closer to a 55/45 pass/run split for the year. So if they get closer to a 50/50 split like their divisional rivals, that is a 5% difference in the amount of fewer passes relative to total plays (though a 10% difference relative to 2013 pass play percentage - still, even 50% still leaves a lot of passes).
Bob Henry might have the most optimistic Bradford projection, about 3,600 yards and 26 TDs.
The problem with only running and never passing when Mason is in the game (if I am interpreting you right) is that would be a massive tell to the defensive play caller.
Even if STL becomes a run-heavy offense (which I expect), they still need to pass the ball to take the offense to the next level and be more competitive in the division. They need to discourage defenses from stacking the box excessively through play action.
Some, myself included, may have focused too much on pass blocking (and again, he may prove a quick study and render the point moot). On the other hand, some have been cavalier and reckless, imo, if they dismiss this matter as trivial and of no possible depth chart consequence. Maybe Mason will be so much better as a runner that it won't matter at all, anything is possible. But given that Bradford isn't that mobile, and coming off a torn ACL, I can also see possibilities in which pass protection is a partially determining factor in reps and playing time, especially if Stacy is better at it. Whoever plays RB, whether in a feature or subordinate RBBC role, will need to block, imo.
Pass protection could ultimately play a small role. If we break down Stacy and Mason as runners, Mason does seem to have superior explosiveness and lateral agility (he should, being 207 lbs. compared to 225 lbs.). But there is a lot more that goes into being a successful RB in the NFL than having elite explosiveness and lateral agility (power, contact balance, vision, instincts, etc.).
Mason is very talented. I just differ with some in thinking Stacy isn't a slug, and his 3.9 yards per carry average has to be viewed in context. Mason is lauded for how well he did at Auburn. What would Stacy have done, since he led the SEC the prior year without an OL that featured future 1.2 overall pick and dominant run blocker Robinson. Would Mason have done as well at Vanderbilt?
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
I guess you can call me delusional as well because I'm a believer. I don't expect mason to top Stacy this year. Next year is a different story.
Nero
Footballguy
I'll first start by saying I am a believer in Tre Mason. I thought he was the best of this year's class. I'm also one of the few who thought Stacy was the best of last year's class. I can agree that Mason has the ability to overtake Stacy, but I don't think its happening. I think the predraft bias against Stacy has the masses undervaluing him greatly(my bias is in the opposite direction though I have a healthy fear of Mason). I think the size difference will keep Stacy as the lead back. An improved supporting cast is going to produce better numbers for Stacy.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
please... explain to me how Stacy, at 3.9ypc, 970yds rushing and 141yds rec made the Rams find their identity as ground and pound kings
when the two previous seasons, SJax rushed for:
4.4ypc, 1145yds rushing, 333yds receiving and 4.1ypc, 1045yds / 321yds
Please... Im dying to hear this.
Here's a little context to add to the 3.9 YPC: Stacy started to be featured in week 5 of 2013. The question is whether the Rams were so run focused that one could not expect to churn out +/-4.5 YPC when Clemens is your QB and you face 8 in the box.
please... explain to me how Stacy, at 3.9ypc, 970yds rushing and 141yds rec made the Rams find their identity as ground and pound kings
when the two previous seasons, SJax rushed for:
4.4ypc, 1145yds rushing, 333yds receiving and 4.1ypc, 1045yds / 321yds
Please... Im dying to hear this.
So did the Rams become relatively one-dimensional versus that of before the first quarter of the season? How about versus previous seasons?
Percent of yards from rushing:
Before week 5, 2013: 16% (therefore 84% passing)
After week 5, 2013: 43% (57% passing)
Obviously, Stacy's sudden presence had a salient impact. Anybody watching the games closely (as I did, every week) saw this as clear as crystal The stats actually back it up more strikingly than I thought they would.
How about versus previous years?
In 2012, the Rams run/pass bias was favored to the pass by 16% versus post week 5 2013 and 24% in 2011!
Soulfly3's theory that Stacy's YPC post-week-5 should some correlate to previous Rams years is as logical as saying that Stacy's stats should correlate to the Edmonton Eskimos in 1982. The Rams 2011/2012/early 2013 offenses were completely unrecognizable vs that of post week 5 2013.
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: )
And Im not trying to say that Mason cant go gangbusters. He might; I dont know. I just wouldnt base the theory on Stacy's YPC b/c there were some reasons for that level of YPC that can be evidenced in the fairly radical change in offensive approach in October that came about for various good reasons.
If anything we, as FF observers, should think about what will happen to the both Stacy and Mason given that it is more likely that the offense will return to the mean and run a lot less frequently in 2014. Though it will likely lead to defense playing honest against the run (a good thing vs last year) that would lead to things like higher YPC, will it be more than offset by having fewer opportunities?
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Admittedly, I was a defender of Trent last year after what he did his rookie year. I lost faith. Was able to trade him in all 3 of my leagues. Could Stacy be a similar situation? It's not out of the question. Mason was drafted much higher. Stacy isn't anything special. I think Mason is a more special talent.........without a doubt.
Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
I don't see why it has t be one or the other, the Rams are going to run the ball a lot so it seems like both are going to have their moments and then there is Benny Cunningham who is no slouch.
Is the prize worth all the fuss? 3.9 ypc, one of the bottom 10 starting QBs in the NFL right now, very little pizzazz at WR for the moment, certainly not much with a track record.
Murderous division with 3 games vs SF/Sea weeks 6, 7, 9, all bye weeks so you are gonna have to suck it up those weeks. Even if this becomes a solid position of return in 2014, can we really say with a straight face we see potential top 10 numbers here?
Is the prize worth all the fuss? 3.9 ypc, one of the bottom 10 starting QBs in the NFL right now, very little pizzazz at WR for the moment, certainly not much with a track record.
Murderous division with 3 games vs SF/Sea weeks 6, 7, 9, all bye weeks so you are gonna have to suck it up those weeks. Even if this becomes a solid position of return in 2014, can we really say with a straight face we see potential top 10 numbers here?
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Stacy is just built to pound the ball....period.
I already own stacy and im planning on trying to wrap up Mason also ...best of both worlds
I already own stacy and im planning on trying to wrap up Mason also ...best of both worlds
HarddTimezz
Footballguy
Mason must first fix that hesitation in the backfield in order to have an impact at this level. All this Mason hype will seem quite comical when Stacy steam rolls the entire league while winning the rushing title. Etch it in stone.
Those 7 games against top 8 run defenses should provide no obstacle to a guy with sub 4 ypc and a very likely rbbc behind him.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
I can't find a RB you don't like.
Except, of course, for all the starters playing in front of all the guys you like.
Who are these RBs you speak of:
1) Sankey
2) Mason
3) Hill
4) Hyde
...
That's a great RB class isn't it!
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
Don't see Mason stealing much time from Stacy outside of injury.
Nero
Footballguy
That hesitation is part of what makes Mason special. He is able to burst in any direction he wants.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
I'm not going to disagree with this for now. On the other hand, I see Mason getting his own. This team is going to run the ball a great deal.
Ha. I guess we are opposites. I avoided Trent last year, feeling he only had value in full PPR leagues and even then he wasn't a target. Don't let one guy ruin your frame of mind. Plenty of RBs in bad situations have improved linearly with their situations. Stacy was in an awful situation as has been stated many times. No passing game and rough division. The only positive was an above average but not great line. I think his situation has improved drastically, although I do not like the Schottenheimer hire for OC. Hopefully they can overcome that, but if the Rams offense sputters then I only have myself to blame for overlooking this.
But you do realize how silly it is to say Mason was drafted much higher than Stacy, right? Think about the success rate of third round rookies. It's awful. Stacy has already accomplished more than most third rounders do in their career. I'm more than happy to snag Stacy long or short term based solely on the odds of Mason being a bust. People can yammer about eyeball tests or their predraft rankings all they want, but most experts did not have him ranked that high and the fact is he fell to the third round which correlates to a long shot for success. I think Stacy has more going for him than just a backup who is unlikely to succeed, but for redraft that should be enough.
And let's not forget that Lacy and Bernard barely outpaced Stacy's 3.9 ypc while in vastly better situations. I know Bernard makes his living running routes, but it's not Stacy's fault that he was not targeted in the same manner. Bottom line is that Lacy and Bernard probably would've seen the same or worse ypc if they'd been drafted to StL yet are held in a much higher regard due to draft position and surrounding offense while Stacy is deemed to be on the verge of losing his job to a small 3rd round draft pick who runs a 4.5 forty and struggles with pass protection. Perception is everything.
And OMG Richardson went ~70 spots earlier, Foster went undrafted, and Brady went in the 6th. Are we supposed to be drawing conclusions from this? Anecdotal evidence is not helpful. I think Delone Carter had a better agility score than Mason. Go out and grab him immediately! Maybe Brandon Jackson and Chris Henry are available on your waiver wire, too.
Also, his official 40 time was 4.50... not sure where you are getting 4.45. Did you cherry pick an unofficial time? The point I was making is that Stacy ran an official 4.55 yet people make this 4.50 guy out to be the next Chris Johnson and they act like a third round pick is now some sort of high draft pick. FWIW, Stacy crushed the 3-cone drill (better than anyone in this draft class) and has basically the same 20 yard shuttle as Mason. You guys talk him down like he's a slug. It's pretty funny actually.
RBM
Footballguy
This thread is funny. There is no evidence that even remotely points to Mason climbing over Cunningham AND Stacy. And I like Mason but sometimes you just have to trust what you see, and I see a team that is pretty comfortable with their starting rb.
