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Tre Mason (4 Viewers)

Tried to trade T. Mason + 4.12 pick to the T. Gurley owner for the 2.01 pick in PPR league. Rejected.

Owner picked J. Ajaya with the 2.01.

So I tried to trade T. Mason + 4.08 and 4.12 pick for J. Ajaya. Rejected.

I give up. I must be overvaluing Mason. :kicksrock:

 
Lord of the Rings said:
Tried to trade T. Mason + 4.12 pick to the T. Gurley owner for the 2.01 pick in PPR league. Rejected.

Owner picked J. Ajaya with the 2.01.

So I tried to trade T. Mason + 4.08 and 4.12 pick for J. Ajaya. Rejected.

I give up. I must be overvaluing Mason. :kicksrock:
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One league I couldn't get reasonable value for Mason so I kept him. In another I traded him for the 2.6 (Mariota).

 
cstu said:
Lord of the Rings said:
Tried to trade T. Mason + 4.12 pick to the T. Gurley owner for the 2.01 pick in PPR league. Rejected.

Owner picked J. Ajaya with the 2.01.

So I tried to trade T. Mason + 4.08 and 4.12 pick for J. Ajaya. Rejected.

I give up. I must be overvaluing Mason. :kicksrock:
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One league I couldn't get reasonable value for Mason so I kept him. In another I traded him for the 2.6 (Mariota).
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I would do the latter in a heartbeat.

People tend to not want to roster too many players that it could take a few years to reap the dividends. Once Gurley is healthy, it greatly reduces the chance Mason is startable any time soon (after the expected beginning of the season window). And even at the end of the tunnell, no guarantee Mason starts with another team.

 
FF Ninja said:
DLR said:
If Gurley is the new Peterson then Mason is the new Chester Taylor.
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Sounds about right, but Chester could pass block. Cunningham will be playing the Chester Taylor role.
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Even as a rookie? I found this from right after he was drafted that indicates he needed to work on his blocking:

He does need to improve his presence in the passing game, as well as his blocking (always a key in the Billick/Cavanagh offense),
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Taylor was also 2 years older than Mason as a rookie.

 
Bob Magaw said:
Sorry for the long post,
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Don't apologize for the long post! Lost posts are your signature move!

So you think Quick is the #2? Before his injury, he sure looked like the #1 on that offense. There won't be a lot of passes, but I think the #1 WR on the Rams will present great redraft value, because they are both going really really late in drafts right now, like WR60-75 range. One of them is going to end up in the top 36 at the end of the year, probably top 24 unless they are truly 1a and 1b.

 
cstu said:
FF Ninja said:
DLR said:
If Gurley is the new Peterson then Mason is the new Chester Taylor.
Click to expand...
Sounds about right, but Chester could pass block. Cunningham will be playing the Chester Taylor role.
Click to expand...
Even as a rookie? I found this from right after he was drafted that indicates he needed to work on his blocking:

He does need to improve his presence in the passing game, as well as his blocking (always a key in the Billick/Cavanagh offense),
Click to expand...
Taylor was also 2 years older than Mason as a rookie.
Click to expand...
I was going with the analogy, so I obviously meant the year that Peterson was drafted. By that point Chester was probably pretty close to 30 and was a very good 3rd down back. But the analogy was pretty fitting because Chester was a good, not great starting RB - just had a nice season the year before. Then Peterson was drafted and Chester took a back seat, similar to Mason. Except, Chester still had a very active role as 3rd down back. In this case, Cunningham has that role on lockdown, leaving Mason as the guy who only comes in when Gurley needs a breather.

 
FF Ninja said:
Bob Magaw said:
Sorry for the long post,
Click to expand...
Don't apologize for the long post! Lost posts are your signature move!

So you think Quick is the #2? Before his injury, he sure looked like the #1 on that offense. There won't be a lot of passes, but I think the #1 WR on the Rams will present great redraft value, because they are both going really really late in drafts right now, like WR60-75 range. One of them is going to end up in the top 36 at the end of the year, probably top 24 unless they are truly 1a and 1b.
Click to expand...
Like I said elsewhere, if I could squeeze in all the points I wanted to make by saying, Gurley run good and Mason run not as good, I would. :)

Good point about who is the #1 WR, I thought you might raise it. First of all, if we stipulate Quick as #1 (he did better before the injury, as you have noted) and Britt #2, it doesn't really change my earlier point that Parker relegating whoever the #2 WR to backup status is no different than Gurley doing so to former #1 RB Mason. Perhaps we have moved past this point, just putting it out there for the record to the rest of the thread.

I think Fisher thinks of Britt as the #1 WR, but that isn't the same necessarily as who will do best (again, 2014 case in point). Who knows who Foles will bond with, or if he will with several WRs (or if he will stay healthy, or be with the Rams beyond 2015)? Some things Britt has going for him:

1) Fisher knew him previously in TEN.

2) Vet with more experience, knows the position better.

3) Signed to a two year contract in the offseason (though it could end up being one year, team friendly deal)

4) Quick was (rightly, imo) considered a bust going into his third season breakout, may have snuck up on teams, if so, that dynamic might be harder to repeat in 2015

Can't really cite pedigree, because virtually identical, low first and high second.

It won't surprise me to see a repeat in 2015 where Quick surpasses Britt, but there is some uncertainty associated with the severity of his shoulder injury. Hopefully he does great and they extend or re-sign him, I like to retain internal talent and ADD incoming talent (via free agency, draft and trade) to THAT. Adding a guy but losing one can just be a lateral move, and the Rams, as perennial cellar dweller, need to do better than tread water.

You could be right that a WR shines, though they could distribute receptions. After Britt and Quick, I think Austin, while clearly overdrafted for how they intended to use (or not use, as the case may be) him, could still have untapped potential and upside if Cignetti isn't as inept finding ways to use him as Schottenheimer was. Bailey may run the best routes and have the best hands on the team (300 yards in four game stretch last year, once the Quick injury gave him the opportunity) and imo is severely underrated. Cook is one of the highest paid TEs in the league and led the team in receptions in 2013, and they also throw to the re-signed Kendricks (Kendricks is somewhat improbably among the top 5 highest paid players on the team with Cook, he turned down more money to join ATL and I think led the team in TD receptions last year, though admittedly they probably value him, more than for his receiving, instead for his versatility to line up at TE, H back and even FB out of the backfield, and especially for his run blocking ability). And Gurley is a good receiver out of the back field.

The Rams could also run more (Gurley, drafting four huge, powerful run blocking OL). They probably wanted to in the past, but are now better equipped to do so. It helps if the game is close, and they got behind early a lot in recent years. The defense had a terrible start (NFL record low 1 sack through first five games), but in the second half were top 5 statistically, last season. This is the second year in Williams scheme, so they should be more familiar, comfortable and able to play faster. Chris Long was hurt last year. They return all 11 starters. Relative to the beginning of 2014, in 2015 they now START Defensive Rookie of the Year Donald (I think PFF or Football Outsiders had him as the top DT in the league by some metrics, not the best ROOKIE, but period, even better than Suh, who just became the highest paid defensive player in the league/history?). Also available from the beginning of the season are former top half of the first round defenders, SS Barron and DT Fairley, as well as high second LB Ayers (didn't overlap with Williams in TEN, I don't think, but did with a few Rams coaches, including LB).

 
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FF Ninja said:
cstu said:
FF Ninja said:
DLR said:
If Gurley is the new Peterson then Mason is the new Chester Taylor.
Click to expand...
Sounds about right, but Chester could pass block. Cunningham will be playing the Chester Taylor role.
Click to expand...
Even as a rookie? I found this from right after he was drafted that indicates he needed to work on his blocking:

He does need to improve his presence in the passing game, as well as his blocking (always a key in the Billick/Cavanagh offense),
Click to expand...
Taylor was also 2 years older than Mason as a rookie.
Click to expand...
I was going with the analogy, so I obviously meant the year that Peterson was drafted. By that point Chester was probably pretty close to 30 and was a very good 3rd down back. But the analogy was pretty fitting because Chester was a good, not great starting RB - just had a nice season the year before. Then Peterson was drafted and Chester took a back seat, similar to Mason. Except, Chester still had a very active role as 3rd down back. In this case, Cunningham has that role on lockdown, leaving Mason as the guy who only comes in when Gurley needs a breather.
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You've been watching football for a long time. If you had to guess, what percentage of rookie RBs need to improve their pass protection? I'm pretty sure it's almost all of them. The vast majority seem to pick it up by year 2. Is there a reason you think Mason can't become a good pass protector?

Brandon Jackson was a pretty bad RB that played for the Packers and Browns a few years ago. When he arrived in GB, he was a borderline awful pass protector. Year 2 he was good at it, and by year 3, it was his best attribute. I don't think that is all that uncommon.

 
All young RBs need to improve, but Mason started from a more remedial place. As did teammate, #2 overall LT Greg Robinson, and for the exact same reason. Auburn is a freak scheme so run skewed that their recent alumni have little chance to work on pass pro to prepare for the NFL (even in practice). Robinson only played two years, and of the four Rams rookie OL, three (2nd Havenstein, 3rd Brown and 6th Wichmann) were three year starters, with Havestein tied for most games in Wisconsin history [54?], and Wichmann two away from Fresno State's start record [he had 50?], so Robinson could still be behind them in pass pro, technically. If he hadn't left early, Robinson could have been a senior at Auburn in 2015.

It doesn't mean Mason can't do it, but he has further to go to close the gap from his atypical (even by low collegiate standards) inexperience to NFL competence.

 
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Bob Magaw said:
Perhaps we have moved past this point
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Yeah, I had moved past it. Was just jumping on a tangent that has been on my mind a lot lately. Just drafted Britt AND Quick in SSL1. I know they don't intend to pass a lot, but have a feeling one of them will put up good numbers each week. Great, cheap combo for a best ball league.

Kitrick Taylor said:
You've been watching football for a long time. If you had to guess, what percentage of rookie RBs need to improve their pass protection? I'm pretty sure it's almost all of them. The vast majority seem to pick it up by year 2. Is there a reason you think Mason can't become a good pass protector?

Brandon Jackson was a pretty bad RB that played for the Packers and Browns a few years ago. When he arrived in GB, he was a borderline awful pass protector. Year 2 he was good at it, and by year 3, it was his best attribute. I don't think that is all that uncommon.
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I see what you're doing there trying to carefully phrase things, but this isn't a binary "check this box if needs to improve" type of situation.

Look, all rookies need to improve in all facets of the game. The idea being that they don't plateau as a rookie. However, some guys come in with distinct deficits. Of the guys with notable deficits, some of those guys have the ability but haven't learned yet, and others just don't have what it takes. Mason had a deficit in pass blocking. He didn't just need to improve. He needed to improve a lot. Maybe he'll learn, maybe he won't. For those of us who primarily play redraft and/or don't own him in dynasty, this is a moot point as Mason is currently the opposite of a person of interest. Maybe as a Mason owner you've lost the war and are looking to win a battle, but even if you win this battle and he becomes the best pass blocker in the league, he's still on your bench as an injury flyer.

 
Rotoworld:

The Rams' official website expects Tre Mason to "still play a significant role" in 2015, and believes it's "more probable" Mason starts Week 1 than Todd Gurley.

Writer Myles Simmons believes Gurley will be brought along slowly, and reminds that coach Jeff Fisher "almost always likes to be conservative with rookies." This is true, but the fact that Gurley is avoiding the PUP list to begin camp — and therefore the season — suggests an early-season return, and a big role along with it. Even if he makes a few early-season starts, Mason is best regarded as an RB3/handcuff.

Related: Todd Gurley

Source: stlouisrams.com

Jul 28 - 7:12 PM
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Rotoworld:

According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, second-year RB Tre Mason is expected to get the "lion's share" of the Rams' "early-season carries."
Per beat writer Jim Thomas, the "last thing" the Rams want to do is "rush" Todd Gurley, who avoided the NFI list to open training camp, but isn't necessarily assured of a major early-season role, or to be active at all on game days when the season begins. Thomas suggests Gurley will play a "limited role" early in the year, and the Rams will increase his workload depending on his ACL recovery, stamina, and effectiveness. Gurley remains a high-risk investment in the first four rounds of drafts, while Mason could prove a useful value pick in the middle rounds.

Related: Todd Gurley

Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Jul 29 - 1:17 PM
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, second-year RB Tre Mason is expected to get the "lion's share" of the Rams' "early-season carries."

Per beat writer Jim Thomas, the "last thing" the Rams want to do is "rush" Todd Gurley, who avoided the NFI list to open training camp, but isn't necessarily assured of a major early-season role, or to be active at all on game days when the season begins. Thomas suggests Gurley will play a "limited role" early in the year, and the Rams will increase his workload depending on his ACL recovery, stamina, and effectiveness. Gurley remains a high-risk investment in the first four rounds of drafts, while Mason could prove a useful value pick in the middle rounds.

Related: Todd Gurley

Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Jul 29 - 1:17 PM
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Not sure I agree with this analysis. Fisher used Cunningham quite a bit along with Mason last year, particularly in passing situations. I don't see any reason it wouldn't be RBBC until Gurley is ready.

 
I drafted Mason as a rookie and was a big believer in him, but I did not bring him back this year. I was able to get the first pick in my draft for Gurley so I'm excited about him. But, I still can't help but feel bad and frustrated that Mason is not going to get his chance. I really wish another team took Gurley.

 
RBM said:
I drafted Mason as a rookie and was a big believer in him, but I did not bring him back this year. I was able to get the first pick in my draft for Gurley so I'm excited about him. But, I still can't help but feel bad and frustrated that Mason is not going to get his chance. I really wish another team took Gurley.
Click to expand...
As a Gurley owner there may be no better coach for him than Fisher. With that defense it can be a lethal combo.

 
jurb26 said:
Who's the guy to have if Mason is a no go, outside of Gurley of course? Cunningham?
Click to expand...
Cunningham for sure. He is actually a pretty capable guy, but I'm pretty wary of the Rams' young Oline. It may be that no Ram is startable against good Ds for at least the first 1/3-1/2 of the season, if not longer.

 
Lott said:
jurb26 said:
Who's the guy to have if Mason is a no go, outside of Gurley of course? Cunningham?
Click to expand...
Cunningham for sure. He is actually a pretty capable guy, but I'm pretty wary of the Rams' young Oline. It may be that no Ram is startable against good Ds for at least the first 1/3-1/2 of the season, if not longer.
Click to expand...
They got Saffold back at right guard so there's at least one experienced guy there now.

 
Lott said:
jurb26 said:
Who's the guy to have if Mason is a no go, outside of Gurley of course? Cunningham?
Click to expand...
Cunningham for sure. He is actually a pretty capable guy, but I'm pretty wary of the Rams' young Oline. It may be that no Ram is startable against good Ds for at least the first 1/3-1/2 of the season, if not longer.
Click to expand...
Those defenses they play early in the year are tough, I have to imagine 95% of the owners in FF would have a better option than the 3rd string Rams RB.

 
Rotoworld:

Coach Jeff Fisher said Tre Mason (hamstring) will likely be a game-time decision for Sunday's Week 1 opener against the Seahawks.

Mason had to leave the Rams' third preseason game early with a "mild" hamstring strain. He's been on the shelf ever since. We'll have to monitor Mason's practice reps this week, but there's a real chance he doesn't practice at all ahead of Sunday. Benny Cunningham could be in for a huge role versus Seattle.

Source: Nick Wagoner on Twitter
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Rotoworld:

Rams coach Jeff Fisher says Tre Mason (hamstring) is "feeling better."

We'll get a pretty good idea of Mason's Week 2 status when the Rams release their injury report on Wednesday. The Rams sprung their Week 1 upset of the Seahawks in spite of their running game. Mason would be in the RB2 conversation if he returns and Todd Gurley (knee) remains sidelined.

Source: Nick Wagoner on Twitter

Sep 15 - 7:48 PM
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Deamon said:
drop cunningham in non ppr?
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Reports indicate Gurley probably won't play this week, but Mason probably will. Unless there's an immediate need, I'd hold Benny until something more definitive comes out...which will probably be Sunday morning inactive list.

 
I know Gurley is the long term answer in St. Louis, with that being said I believe owners are forgetting how good Mason was the last half of the year. When Gurley comes back will he be on a snap count? Will there we a RBBC In St. Louis going forward like 70% of the teams in the NFL today.

Either way I will embrace Mason as a RB2/Flex the remainder of the season assuming he stays healthy.

 
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Long Ball Larry said:
VandyMan said:
Deamon said:
drop cunningham in non ppr?
Click to expand...
Reports indicate Gurley probably won't play this week, but Mason probably will. Unless there's an immediate need, I'd hold Benny until something more definitive comes out...which will probably be Sunday morning inactive list.
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Do you have a link about Gurley? Thought he was likely.
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It's from yesterday, but here

Mason wasn't the only Rams running back listed as a full participant in practice. Rookie Todd Gurley (knee) also had that designation and will continue to get reps through the week before a decision is made on his status. It still seems likely that he's probably not going to debut in Washington but coach Jeff Fisher still isn't ruling him out.
Click to expand...
 
Long Ball Larry said:
VandyMan said:
Deamon said:
drop cunningham in non ppr?
Click to expand...
Reports indicate Gurley probably won't play this week, but Mason probably will. Unless there's an immediate need, I'd hold Benny until something more definitive comes out...which will probably be Sunday morning inactive list.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link about Gurley? Thought he was likely.
Click to expand...
It's from yesterday, but here

Mason wasn't the only Rams running back listed as a full participant in practice. Rookie Todd Gurley (knee) also had that designation and will continue to get reps through the week before a decision is made on his status. It still seems likely that he's probably not going to debut in Washington but coach Jeff Fisher still isn't ruling him out.
Click to expand...
 
While Gurley is rounding into game shape and knocking the rust off, Mason could certainly have value. If/when Gurley takes over, imo it would be hard for Mason to have RB2-type value (maybe flex?). Mason is a good player, but Gurley is special. They didn't take him #10 overall to split time. Many scouts think Gurley is one of the best RB prospects in the past decade, and I don't think that was ever said about Mason.

As to Cunningham, it depends on roster size. If Mason carries the load in the interim while Gurley is being prepped for a bigger role (remember that Stacy and Mason didn't start for the first month of their respective rookie seasons, and they weren't coming off torn ACLs), Cunningham's window may already have closed barring a setback of one of the two RBs ahead of him. If there are limited roster spots, and depending on who else is available, it would be a shame to pass on a good WW pick up, imo. If there isn't much on the waiver wire, that kind of makes the decision for you.

 
FBGs news/updates page incorrectly states:

Rams | Tre Mason full practice again Thu Sep 17, 03:16 PM

St. Louis Rams RB Tre Mason (thigh) put in a full practice for the second straight day Thursday, Sept. 17.
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The Rams did not practice on Thursday. They are testing out a new practice schedule which gives their players Thursdays off instead of Tuesday. Fisher said they'll stick with it if it works. So, assuming they stick with it and FBGs doesn't fix their automated news blogger, don't believe anything they report about STL players practicing (or missing practice) on Thursdays.

 
Tre Mason (hamstring, questionable) was a full participant at Friday's practice.
Mason returned to full practice on Wednesday and hasn't suffered any setbacks. Though he's listed as questionable, we'd expect Mason to suit up against the Redskins on Sunday.
 
Soulfly3 said:
Tre Mason (hamstring, questionable) was a full participant at Friday's practice.
Mason returned to full practice on Wednesday and hasn't suffered any setbacks. Though he's listed as questionable, we'd expect Mason to suit up against the Redskins on Sunday.
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hes in my line up

 
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