Trip's Top 4 FF Rookie Busts (1 Viewer)

[TripItUp]

2. Devon Achane - seems like a nice gadget player but will never be able to handle the volume and physicality of the NFL to really matter for fantasy purposes. Hard pass on this scatback unless you are into low ceilings.

I think it is the floor, rather than the ceiling that is low on Achane. I think his FF production is going to be very TD dependant.

I could see him evolving into a useful PPR asset...but nothing worth getting too excited about.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

2. Devon Achane - seems like a nice gadget player but will never be able to handle the volume and physicality of the NFL to really matter for fantasy purposes. Hard pass on this scatback unless you are into low ceilings.

I think it is the floor, rather than the ceiling that is low on Achane. I think his FF production is going to be very TD dependant.

I would expect it to be PPR dependent myself.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

Too many poeple force positional need over talent in rookie drafts. I think it's the biggest mistake most FF dynasty players make in rookie drafts.

Agree with this.

Last year I forced myself to take Pierce when I should have taken Wilson...dumb decision by me.

Don't give up on Pierce yet. His ceiling is as high as ANY WR on the team.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Don't give up on Pierce yet. His ceiling is as high as ANY WR on the team.

I really like Pierce’s upside - his skill set is a really nice match with ARich’s ability to be accurate deep.

I’m in a 16-team start-up and I was pretty disappointed when I missed him. Went 2 picks before me.

 

[Da Franchise]

Think they were talking about Dameon. Can’t imagine anyone taking Alec Pierce over Garrett Wilson…even the OP lol

 

[TripItUp]

yeah, I meant Dameon

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Think they were talking about Dameon. Can’t imagine anyone taking Alex Pierce over Garrett Wilson…even the OP lol

Ah, yes that makes more sense. lol

 

[TripItUp]

Just listened to the fantasy points podcast...basically agreed with my sentiments on Charbonnet and to some degree Achane.

 

[sheerterror]

yeah, I meant Dameon

There's much worse misses out there and I think Dameon is in for a huge year, but I get that it sucks passing on a top 3-5 dynasty WR.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Anthony RIchardson screams bust to me. His passing stats in college were atrocious. Yes, he's physically gifted, but I just don't see him developing into a passer. If he can't pass he becomes a glorified Taysom Hill.

Edit to add: Even guys like Kyler, Lamar and Fields all had good to great passing stats in college.

Totally agree. In 5 years the Colts will be drafting another QB in the top 5.

ARich is going to be just fine. He has the perfect coaching staff to maximize his physical gifts, and enough talent around him + the arm talent to succeed.

A little coaching up, and he’s going to make a lot of naysayers eat their words.

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Totally agree. In 5 years the Colts will be drafting another QB in the top 5.

I think Richardson has a super wide range of outcomes....wouldn't shock me if he developed to be an MVP contender and wouldn't shock me if he's out of the league in 5 years.

A lot of really smart analysts like his chances.

I'm certainly not going to call him a potential bust yet.

Give it a few seasons...you will.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

 

[metoo]

Just listened to the fantasy points podcast...basically agreed with my sentiments on Charbonnet and to some degree Achane.

I see no reason why he can’t get 15-17 touches a game. Some are making the same mistake that they made with CMC.

He’s playing for the right coach to show his skills. I can’t wait for the season to begin.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Still, it's a rookie head coach with a rookie OC. It isn't like he was drafted into the Kyle Shanahan system or whatnot. There's a lot more questions here than solid answers.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

 

[Enzo....the Baker]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I love Waldman same as the next guy. He has some misses too. Not always gospel

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I love Waldman same as the next guy. He has some misses too. Not always gospel

I didn’t say he was gospel. I said I read his scouting report and was convinced. There’s a difference..

 

[Snotbubbles]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm not particularly enamored with any of them.

 

[TripItUp]

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm not particularly enamored with any of them.

Stroud is going to surprise some folks IMHO.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm not particularly enamored with any of them.

Stroud is going to surprise some folks IMHO.

I agree with you here.

He’s the most polished QB with NFL size. I still don’t trust Young’s slender frame.

ARich has much higher upside than either due to his physical gifts, but is more risky for FF.

But if reports are true, Stroud took that draft stock hit due to a relatively new test that I’m not entirely ready to bank on as an end-all/be-all.

IMO he’s going to be a solid pro, and without a ton of growing pains.

Of course I could be wrong.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm not particularly enamored with any of them.

I like all 3 of Young, Stroud, & ARich.

I have significant concern about Young’s size.

Between Stroud & ARich, I prefer to not invest in HOU players until that organization shows me they’re capable of competence. I didn’t like that they traded up for a defender instead of drafting a receiver for Stroud.

And ARich has incredible upside - on a rebuilding team, that’s what I drafted for when I had my choice of the 3.

Then you have guys like Hooker & Levis, who might well both end up being decent QBs in the NFL, though health (Hooker) and polish (Levis) might mean waiting a year or so.

i feel this was a fairly strong QB class overall.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm not particularly enamored with any of them.

Stroud is going to surprise some folks IMHO.

He's the one I like the best out of this group.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1. Zach Charbonnet - I watch a lot of college ball and I have never understood the valuation of Charbonnet. Great collegiate RB, but a bust RB in the NFL IMHO. His BMI is terrible, his measurables are mediocre by star RB standards and his running style will not translate to the NFL IMHO. He profiles as a JAG rusher IMHO. Maybe he can find a niche as a 3rd down back, but I don't like his ceiling and consider Walker the vastly superior rusher.

2. Devon Achane - seems like a nice gadget player but will never be able to handle the volume and physicality of the NFL to really matter for fantasy purposes. Hard pass on this scatback unless you are into low ceilings.

3. Roschon Johnson - He's the third best RB on the Bears right now. Maybe he emerges in year 2, maybe he doesn't. Like Charbonet, he profiles as a JAG rusher for me. Herbert recently announced that this is a RBBC...so there's that too. This kid is unproven and buried on the depth chart in a RBBC which makes him a hard pass.

4. Josh Downs - He's small. Really small. And now he's going to be catching passes from Richardson, an unpolished QB to say the least. Listen to Zachariason's recent podcasts on rookie QBs and their impact on their respective supporting casts...here's a hint, it's not good...and most of us didn't need to listen to a podcast to know it. Additionally, Pittman and Pierce are strong WRs...at best tiny Downs is WR3 for the foreseeable future...yucky.

I don't see how anyone could get overly excited for any Bears RB at the moment so that's fair.
Josh who? Downs you say? Oh he plays on that Colts team with another FF ROOKIE BUST at QB, good find Trip
Zach Bluebonnet is firmly entrenched as the #2 RB in Seattle behind Kenny Walker III, i don't think most are expecting HUGE production out of him

And that leaves us with Achane, it's good that so many dismiss him.
If Miami brings in Cook then i might change my outlook for 2023 but with so many weapons surrounding him, what's not to like?
What RBs get 20+ carries on a week to week basis? You really think Achane has ZERO shot at cracking the Top 25?
31 yr old Mostert, Jeff Hands O'Stone Wilson, garbage at the RB3 and RB4 sots with Gaskin and Ahmed right now
Again, if Cook is signed then I would expect Gaskin and Ahmed to not even make the team and perhaps Mostert and Wilson fight it out for the last spot, maybe Miami can keep both just to have some fresh legs. Nightmare for FF participants, i can agree with that but I think this will shake out and you will see clear roles.
Achane also catches the ball very well, something Miami sorely lacked at RB last year.

Good thread idea Trip
ARich will be a BUST

 

[Ministry of Pain]

@Hot Sauce Guy
Don't you start with me


I know I know, you know a guy with much better credentials than myself
We can agree to disagree about ARich but let's not go back and forth again.

I am actually very excited that so many see ARich as a Top 8-10 QB his rookie year in 2023, that kind of info actually helps when you are putting together THE LIST!
It does for me anyways, it opens up the board and you start to see places or rounds in the Draft where you can Zig as others Zag and vice versa.

You're not alone on your ARich opinion, in fact I would say MoP is in the minority on this, certainly won't be the first time that has happened.

Cheers!

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't see how anyone could get overly excited for any Bears RB at the moment so that's fair.

Someone in that backfield is going to provide RL & FF value. Seems a bit early to throw the entire baby out with the bathwater. The bears have been a pretty effective rushing team historically, and with Fields rushing & a seemingly improved offense I would think someone will emerge there. I don’t mind people making speculative adds in the hope they land “the guy”. Not sure who “the guy” is yet, but Herbert has shown flashes.

Josh who? Downs you say? Oh he plays on that Colts team with another FF ROOKIE BUST at QB, good find Trip

I’m not that excited about Downs given the rushing nature & relative unknowns about the new colts offense, and I will honor your request and not demand that you explain your opinion on ARich, which is clearly quite strong.

Zach Bluebonnet is firmly entrenched as the #2 RB in Seattle behind Kenny Walker III, i don't think most are expecting HUGE production out of him

According to whom? Link?

I mean, you might be right, but when you say things like “firmly entrenched as the #2 RB” that seems like an absolute statement of fact, when really you’re just speculating wildly, right?

Respectfully, I wouldn’t think the Seahawks would have spent a 2nd round pick on a backup. That would be fairly unusual in the modern NFL. Was there really no defensive or OL player on the board that could have helped the Seahawks at that point in the draft more than a guy they’ll “firmly entrench” as a RB2?

Might there be a possibility that they have a role in mind for Charbonnet?

And that leaves us with Achane, it's good that so many dismiss him.
If Miami brings in Cook then i might change my outlook for 2023 but with so many weapons surrounding him, what's not to like?
What RBs get 20+ carries on a week to week basis? You really think Achane has ZERO shot at cracking the Top 25?
31 yr old Mostert, Jeff Hands O'Stone Wilson, garbage at the RB3 and RB4 sots with Gaskin and Ahmed right now
Again, if Cook is signed then I would expect Gaskin and Ahmed to not even make the team and perhaps Mostert and Wilson fight it out for the last spot, maybe Miami can keep both just to have some fresh legs. Nightmare for FF participants, i can agree with that but I think this will shake out and you will see clear roles.
Achane also catches the ball very well, something Miami sorely lacked at RB last year.

Good thread idea Trip

So the MIA player is the one non-bust. Not homerish at all.

lol

ARich will be a BUST

Again, biting my tongue per your request my friend. We have agreed to disagree.

 

[TripItUp]

Someone in that backfield is going to provide RL & FF value.

Why are you sold on this idea? Is it possible that nobody will provide great ff value in the Miami backfield?

Personally I like Wilson the most right now.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I love Waldman same as the next guy. He has some misses too. Not always gospel

I give him some credit for being out in front of the RB Stud Theory and advancing the cause, I dismissed it at first but looking back 10-15 years...he was on to something.
I was a strong conservative drafter for many years, always trying to grab 2-3-4 RBs in the first 2-3-4 rounds but over time I realized I needed to evolve with the NFL or perish.
And I watch these others who compete and they typically have 2-3 RBs, 2-3 WRs and their QB/TE combo by about Rounds 6-7-8, nice balanced team and what I'm really getting at is the mind set of many and that is where I do credit Waldman and taking on the SP and trying to show other ways to compete.

It's mostly a spin on VBD, flipping the rounds or boards so that you can feast early on sure bets and take risks or even a couple back ups you strongly feel are going to see a lot of playing time, especially at RB where injuries tend to sink teams that are not prepared. I have not drafted a RB in the 1st Rd for several years, even when I am supposed to take a RB near the top of the Draft, I still tend to shy away from them. Not always but more often than I ever though possible 10-15 years ago.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Someone in that backfield is going to provide RL & FF value.

Why are you sold on this idea? Is it possible that nobody will provide great ff value in the Miami backfield?

Personally I like Wilson the most right now.

I was referring to Chicago in the quote you posted here. That’s why I mentioned Herbert

As for MIA, I also like Wilson to be the sneaky value play in MIA for FF. Provided Cook isn’t there of course.

But yeah, I was talking about Chicago.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm Here'not particularly enamored with any of them.

I like all 3 of Young, Stroud, & ARich.

I have significant concern about Young’s size.

Between Stroud & ARich, I prefer to not invest in HOU players until that organization shows me they’re capable of competence. I didn’t like that they traded up for a defender instead of drafting a receiver for Stroud.

And ARich has incredible upside - on a rebuilding team, that’s what I drafted for when I had my choice of the 3.

Then you have guys like Hooker & Levis, who might well both end up being decent QBs in the NFL, though health (Hooker) and polish (Levis) might mean waiting a year or so.

i feel this was a fairly strong QB class overall.

RE: HOU vs IND organization
You mean the same organization that fired Frank Reich after 8 games and hired Jeff Saturday? HOU is by no means a stable franchise, but let's not pretend that IND is a stalwart of stability either.

My $.02 is that Stroud is probably the best QB out of this draft class, in a class that's frankly, not great. Stroud is rumored to have performed poorly on the S2 cognition test. Here's some info from the creator of the S2 on 'leaked scores'.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/s2-co-founder-says-two-scores-that-were-leaked-are-not-accurate

I think Young will have significant issues at QB given his size. I think RIchardson will have significant issues in the NFL due to an inability to throw an accurate ball. His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up. I suspect the Colts will give him every chance to work it out, but ultimately I think he'll be out of the league or a gadget player in 3-4 years.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm Here'not particularly enamored with any of them.

I like all 3 of Young, Stroud, & ARich.

I have significant concern about Young’s size.

Between Stroud & ARich, I prefer to not invest in HOU players until that organization shows me they’re capable of competence. I didn’t like that they traded up for a defender instead of drafting a receiver for Stroud.

And ARich has incredible upside - on a rebuilding team, that’s what I drafted for when I had my choice of the 3.

Then you have guys like Hooker & Levis, who might well both end up being decent QBs in the NFL, though health (Hooker) and polish (Levis) might mean waiting a year or so.

i feel this was a fairly strong QB class overall.

RE: HOU vs IND organization
You mean the same organization that fired Frank Reich after 8 games and hired Jeff Saturday? HOU is by no means a stable franchise, but let's not pretend that IND is a stalwart of stability either.

Let’s also not pretend that the Jeff Saturday hire wasn’t anything but hooking a brother up & tanking for a top draft pick.

I mean, if we’re keeping it here.

My $.02 is that Stroud is probably the best QB out of this draft class, in a class that's frankly, not great. Stroud is rumored to have performed poorly on the S2 cognition test. Here's some info from the creator of the S2 on 'leaked scores'.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/s2-co-founder-says-two-scores-that-were-leaked-are-not-accurate

I think Young will have significant issues at QB given his size. I think RIchardson will have significant issues in the NFL due to an inability to throw an accurate ball. His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up. I suspect the Colts will give him every chance to work it out, but ultimately I think he'll be out of the league or a gadget player in 3-4 years.

You’re preaching to the choir about Stroud. I’ve been on here for over a year touting him as the guy I believe will have the most immediate success in the NFL.

I’ve also been on here talking about Young’s size issues for a similar amount of time.

We can agree to disagree about ARich & the Colts. The fun thing there is that in a few months we’ll actually be able to see if coaching helps him with his footwork.

If I’m wrong, I’ll eat crow. Wouldn’t be the 1st time. Heck, I was totally down on ARich (my posts are still all over the ARich topic, by all means go check) and ate crow because after reading the RSP, then watching a ton of film on ARich, then seeing his monster combine, I came around on him.

And I could be wrong again. I don’t claim to be psychic.

But I did draft him 1.02 in my superflex rebuild, so at least I put my money where my mouth is.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up

One bone I’ll pick though is this quote. In fact, since much of this is based on footwork, this is *precisely* the sort of thing you can fix with coaching up.

It worked for Hurt, and it worked for Herbert. Of course the obvious connection there is Steichen is the same dude who coached them up.

So respectfully, I disagree with this statement.

 

[JohnnyU]

Watching film <> YouTube highlights

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm Here'not particularly enamored with any of them.

I like all 3 of Young, Stroud, & ARich.

I have significant concern about Young’s size.

Between Stroud & ARich, I prefer to not invest in HOU players until that organization shows me they’re capable of competence. I didn’t like that they traded up for a defender instead of drafting a receiver for Stroud.

And ARich has incredible upside - on a rebuilding team, that’s what I drafted for when I had my choice of the 3.

Then you have guys like Hooker & Levis, who might well both end up being decent QBs in the NFL, though health (Hooker) and polish (Levis) might mean waiting a year or so.

i feel this was a fairly strong QB class overall.

RE: HOU vs IND organization
You mean the same organization that fired Frank Reich after 8 games and hired Jeff Saturday? HOU is by no means a stable franchise, but let's not pretend that IND is a stalwart of stability either.

Let’s also not pretend that the Jeff Saturday hire wasn’t anything but hooking a brother up & tanking for a top draft pick.

I mean, if we’re keeping it here.

My $.02 is that Stroud is probably the best QB out of this draft class, in a class that's frankly, not great. Stroud is rumored to have performed poorly on the S2 cognition test. Here's some info from the creator of the S2 on 'leaked scores'.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/s2-co-founder-says-two-scores-that-were-leaked-are-not-accurate

I think Young will have significant issues at QB given his size. I think RIchardson will have significant issues in the NFL due to an inability to throw an accurate ball. His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up. I suspect the Colts will give him every chance to work it out, but ultimately I think he'll be out of the league or a gadget player in 3-4 years.

You’re preaching to the choir about Stroud. I’ve been on here for over a year touting him as the guy I believe will have the most immediate success in the NFL.

I’ve also been on here talking about Young’s size issues for a similar amount of time.

We can agree to disagree about ARich & the Colts. The fun thing there is that in a few months we’ll actually be able to see if coaching helps him with his footwork.

If I’m wrong, I’ll eat crow. Wouldn’t be the 1st time. Heck, I was totally down on ARich (my posts are still all over the ARich topic, by all means go check) and ate crow because after reading the RSP, then watching a ton of film on ARich, then seeing his monster combine, I came around on him.

And I could be wrong again. I don’t claim to be psychic.

But I did draft him 1.02 in my superflex rebuild, so at least I put my money where my mouth is.

It's all early June discussion here. It'll mean diddly squat in a few months!
I think a lot of people got enamored with Richardson after the combine. He measured off the charts for goodness sake! But I also think that a lot of people (including the Colts front office) disregarded the film for a chance to get a guy who's measurables were out of sight. I purposely did not draft Richardson in any of my rookie drafts because his risk/reward was just too high, especially given that he was often being drafted ahead of Stroud, Young, and occasionally Bijan.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up

One bone I’ll pick though is this quote. In fact, since much of this is based on footwork, this is *precisely* the sort of thing you can fix with coaching up.

It worked for Hurt, and it worked for Herbert. Of course the obvious connection there is Steichen is the same dude who coached them up.

So respectfully, I disagree with this statement.

He literally stunk at in/out routes and was even worse when scrambling. Those are timing routes, not footwork pieces, IMO.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

He literally stunk at in/out routes and was even worse when scrambling. Those are timing routes, not footwork pieces, IMO.

Guess we’ll see if coaching him up works or not soon then.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm Here'not particularly enamored with any of them.

I like all 3 of Young, Stroud, & ARich.

I have significant concern about Young’s size.

Between Stroud & ARich, I prefer to not invest in HOU players until that organization shows me they’re capable of competence. I didn’t like that they traded up for a defender instead of drafting a receiver for Stroud.

And ARich has incredible upside - on a rebuilding team, that’s what I drafted for when I had my choice of the 3.

Then you have guys like Hooker & Levis, who might well both end up being decent QBs in the NFL, though health (Hooker) and polish (Levis) might mean waiting a year or so.

i feel this was a fairly strong QB class overall.

RE: HOU vs IND organization
You mean the same organization that fired Frank Reich after 8 games and hired Jeff Saturday? HOU is by no means a stable franchise, but let's not pretend that IND is a stalwart of stability either.

Let’s also not pretend that the Jeff Saturday hire wasn’t anything but hooking a brother up & tanking for a top draft pick.

I mean, if we’re keeping it here.

My $.02 is that Stroud is probably the best QB out of this draft class, in a class that's frankly, not great. Stroud is rumored to have performed poorly on the S2 cognition test. Here's some info from the creator of the S2 on 'leaked scores'.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/s2-co-founder-says-two-scores-that-were-leaked-are-not-accurate

I think Young will have significant issues at QB given his size. I think RIchardson will have significant issues in the NFL due to an inability to throw an accurate ball. His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up. I suspect the Colts will give him every chance to work it out, but ultimately I think he'll be out of the league or a gadget player in 3-4 years.

You’re preaching to the choir about Stroud. I’ve been on here for over a year touting him as the guy I believe will have the most immediate success in the NFL.

I’ve also been on here talking about Young’s size issues for a similar amount of time.

We can agree to disagree about ARich & the Colts. The fun thing there is that in a few months we’ll actually be able to see if coaching helps him with his footwork.

If I’m wrong, I’ll eat crow. Wouldn’t be the 1st time. Heck, I was totally down on ARich (my posts are still all over the ARich topic, by all means go check) and ate crow because after reading the RSP, then watching a ton of film on ARich, then seeing his monster combine, I came around on him.

And I could be wrong again. I don’t claim to be psychic.

But I did draft him 1.02 in my superflex rebuild, so at least I put my money where my mouth is.

It's all early June discussion here. It'll mean diddly squat in a few months!
I think a lot of people got enamored with Richardson after the combine. He measured off the charts for goodness sake! But I also think that a lot of people (including the Colts front office) disregarded the film for a chance to get a guy who's measurables were out of sight. I purposely did not draft Richardson in any of my rookie drafts because his risk/reward was just too high, especially given that he was often being drafted ahead of Stroud, Young, and occasionally Bijan.

I tend to give NFL coaching staffs more credit than this.

Of course there’s always busts, so maybe I’m too generous in my estimation. Look at Lance, Jamarcus Russell, etc, etc.

 

[JohnnyU]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

I think that speaks more to the QBs in this draft. I'm Here'not particularly enamored with any of them.

I like all 3 of Young, Stroud, & ARich.

I have significant concern about Young’s size.

Between Stroud & ARich, I prefer to not invest in HOU players until that organization shows me they’re capable of competence. I didn’t like that they traded up for a defender instead of drafting a receiver for Stroud.

And ARich has incredible upside - on a rebuilding team, that’s what I drafted for when I had my choice of the 3.

Then you have guys like Hooker & Levis, who might well both end up being decent QBs in the NFL, though health (Hooker) and polish (Levis) might mean waiting a year or so.

i feel this was a fairly strong QB class overall.

RE: HOU vs IND organization
You mean the same organization that fired Frank Reich after 8 games and hired Jeff Saturday? HOU is by no means a stable franchise, but let's not pretend that IND is a stalwart of stability either.

Let’s also not pretend that the Jeff Saturday hire wasn’t anything but hooking a brother up & tanking for a top draft pick.

I mean, if we’re keeping it here.

My $.02 is that Stroud is probably the best QB out of this draft class, in a class that's frankly, not great. Stroud is rumored to have performed poorly on the S2 cognition test. Here's some info from the creator of the S2 on 'leaked scores'.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/s2-co-founder-says-two-scores-that-were-leaked-are-not-accurate

I think Young will have significant issues at QB given his size. I think RIchardson will have significant issues in the NFL due to an inability to throw an accurate ball. His on target +/- in college was absolutely horrid. That isn't something you can just fix with coaching up. I suspect the Colts will give him every chance to work it out, but ultimately I think he'll be out of the league or a gadget player in 3-4 years.

You’re preaching to the choir about Stroud. I’ve been on here for over a year touting him as the guy I believe will have the most immediate success in the NFL.

I’ve also been on here talking about Young’s size issues for a similar amount of time.

We can agree to disagree about ARich & the Colts. The fun thing there is that in a few months we’ll actually be able to see if coaching helps him with his footwork.

If I’m wrong, I’ll eat crow. Wouldn’t be the 1st time. Heck, I was totally down on ARich (my posts are still all over the ARich topic, by all means go check) and ate crow because after reading the RSP, then watching a ton of film on ARich, then seeing his monster combine, I came around on him.

And I could be wrong again. I don’t claim to be psychic.

But I did draft him 1.02 in my superflex rebuild, so at least I put my money where my mouth is.

It's all early June discussion here. It'll mean diddly squat in a few months!
I think a lot of people got enamored with Richardson after the combine. He measured off the charts for goodness sake! But I also think that a lot of people (including the Colts front office) disregarded the film for a chance to get a guy who's measurables were out of sight. I purposely did not draft Richardson in any of my rookie drafts because his risk/reward was just too high, especially given that he was often being drafted ahead of Stroud, Young, and occasionally Bijan.

I tend to give NFL coaching staffs more credit than this.

Of course there’s always busts, so maybe I’m too generous in my estimation. Look at Lance, Jamarcus Russell, etc, etc.

Too early to call Lance a bust since he hasn’t really had a chance.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Too early to call Lance a bust since he hasn’t really had a chance.

That’s fair.

As a 49ers fan I’m comfortable with the moniker, but we’re a bitter bunch.

 

[zeeshan2]

Anthony RIchardson screams bust to me. His passing stats in college were atrocious. Yes, he's physically gifted, but I just don't see him developing into a passer. If he can't pass he becomes a glorified Taysom Hill.

Edit to add: Even guys like Kyler, Lamar and Fields all had good to great passing stats in college.

as a texans fan, I hope he does but he went to the perfect situation to develop him. Still the track record for a guy with a completion percentage in the 50's, starting only 12 games or so, and being a first round pick aren't good

 

[FBG Moderator]

I also tried KC Masterpiece BBQ. It's better than yours

Drop the stuff that's not football.

 

[dipandglide]

I agree with most of what was said in the OP.

I'd take Achane off the list. The weight thing has been hashed out for months and seems lazy (I'm tired of everyone's models). Achane has proven he isn't a "scatback" in the SEC, his tape is fun, and he went to the perfect situation. He might not be the mythical workhorse everyone seeks out. There are only a few of those unicorns in 2023. Achane can produce low RB1 in PPR leagues if he gets 15-18 touches and stay healthy.

 

[Tanner9919]

Anthony RIchardson screams bust to me. His passing stats in college were atrocious. Yes, he's physically gifted, but I just don't see him developing into a passer. If he can't pass he becomes a glorified Taysom Hill.

Edit to add: Even guys like Kyler, Lamar and Fields all had good to great passing stats in college.

I hear ya, and 2 of those three are total busts in the NFL. Neither murray or fields can hit the ocean with a beach ball. Murray is the best baseball player in the NFL, Fields is just another in a long line of Ohio St QB busts in the NFL, Richardson might be the same as both of these. Only thing I'm asking is what was Brady's stats in college that led him to being a 7th rounder? what about Jeff Hostetler? Frank Reich? What about Rich Gannon or some of these others? I know these are old school names. Mr Irrelevant took SF to within a injury in a championship game to going to the SB - clearly his college stats sucked too right? must've , but he won 7 straight games and looked like joe montana in those games. time will tell with AR but sooooooooo many people gushed about fields and murray it was flat-out sickening. let's see what happens with richardson.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Fields is just another in a long line of Ohio St QB busts in the NFL,

Are we sure of that at this point?

Seems premature.

 

[modogg]

AHHHH, Nightmare of a thread. All i see are all of my best ball teams on Underdog going reading this thread

 

[Streetduck]

Anthony RIchardson screams bust to me. His passing stats in college were atrocious. Yes, he's physically gifted, but I just don't see him developing into a passer. If he can't pass he becomes a glorified Taysom Hill.

Edit to add: Even guys like Kyler, Lamar and Fields all had good to great passing stats in college.

Being a Florida Gator fan I couldn’t agree more and yet I drafted ARich at 1.07 of my 1QB rookie draft because what if?

 

[wgoldsph]

Anthony RIchardson screams bust to me. His passing stats in college were atrocious. Yes, he's physically gifted, but I just don't see him developing into a passer. If he can't pass he becomes a glorified Taysom Hill.

Edit to add: Even guys like Kyler, Lamar and Fields all had good to great passing stats in college.

I hear ya, and 2 of those three are total busts in the NFL. Neither murray or fields can hit the ocean with a beach ball. Murray is the best baseball player in the NFL, Fields is just another in a long line of Ohio St QB busts in the NFL, Richardson might be the same as both of these. Only thing I'm asking is what was Brady's stats in college that led him to being a 7th rounder? what about Jeff Hostetler? Frank Reich? What about Rich Gannon or some of these others? I know these are old school names. Mr Irrelevant took SF to within a injury in a championship game to going to the SB - clearly his college stats sucked too right? must've , but he won 7 straight games and looked like joe montana in those games. time will tell with AR but sooooooooo many people gushed about fields and murray it was flat-out sickening. let's see what happens with richardson.

Are Murray and Fields busts? Fields is the reason Chi was in games last year and Murray played good enough to secure a huge contract playing for a college coach who stayed in the NFL for much longer than he should have.

 

[BassNBrew]

Huh? Anthony Richardson has a rookie head coach. A first time offensive coordinator. And a QB coach who coached up who...Kyler Murray? We have absolutely zero idea how the coaching staff will do with Anthony Richardson. To call it "perfect" seems a bit, premature.

Maybe you should google that rookie HC to see what QBs he’s worked with & get back to me.

Maybe you should look at those players passing capabilities in college, when they entered the NFL and then google Anthony Richardson and get back to me. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I have looked closely. Moreover I’ve read the Waldman RSP where he has ARich as the best QB prospect in the draft.

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Again, I have faith that the coaching structure in place will benefit ARich substantially.

Based on past results this would lead me to fade ARich.

 

[Chaka]

The issues with ARich (besides drops from his receivers) largely have to do with footwork/short passes.

That’s a very coach-able / fixable issue.

Okay first off let's not casually push blame to his WRs, as you could easily argue better ball placement leads to better outcomes.

More importantly accuracy and touch are two of the more difficult things to teach QBs. Particularly if you have to breakdown a lifetime of muscle memory (footwork, release etc) to do it.

When you start doing that you make the player think rather than react, that leads to hesitation and in the NFL he who hesitates is lost.

I love what Steichen did with Hurts but Jalen was already a highly accurate passer coming out of college. So the question is, can Steichen teach Richardson accuracy within the confines of what he already knows how to do?

I really like Richardson and think he has, by far, the biggest upside of this years QB crop, and maybe going back several years too. The Colts had to take the risk with that much physical talent. But he is also, by far, the biggest risk of any top QB.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Based on past results this would lead me to fade ARich.

*cough Mahomes cough*