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Trump and the 16 women (1 Viewer)

Rove! said:
f you read her account, it infers there was a romantic or sexual interest prior to the attack
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By Trump. Carroll thought it hilarious and the making of a great New York story, and mocked him by suggesting he put lingerie on. He responded by attacking her.

 
Ranethe said:
Yep. And reasonable people would consequently draw conclusions about the moral character of those supporters, about their humanity. But in the interest of civility, we’re unable to do so. That’s what I find mind boggling. I mean, he was caught on tape bragging about using his celebrity to sexually assault women. I guess without video it’s all meaningless. Even video would unlikely be enough. Then we would get the rationalizations, the excuses. He is such a patently abhorrent individual but it’s all become a blur, it all gets reduced to the absurd “difference of opinion” nonsense.
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What he describes in the video is a hyperbolic description of a mutually consensual act.  

 
Rove! said:
https://quillette.com/2016/01/02/to-rape-is-to-want-sex-not-power/
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If rapists are primarily motivated by the desire for power and domination, then one would expect them to prefer middle-aged, career women. 
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What does that have to do with anything.

The reason most rapists target females is that a larger percentage of males are heterosexuals, not that they hate females. Homosexual men actually have as high an offense rate as heterosexual men. Gay men are just as likely to attack males as straight men are to attack females.
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THIS an argument for Rape is about sex instead of power? SOunds like 7th grade Social Studies.

Most date rapes occur during consensual sex when one partner, usually the man, wants to go further and the other does not. At the point of assault, men have an especially strong sexual drive. 
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Wow. This guy is a professor? Once again, this has nothing to do with his argument. Actually proves the opposite. He calls it an assualt and it is about forcing the women. That's power

Any explanation of sexual assault must account for why gay men commit the crime at least as often as straight men. It must explain why offenders, regardless of age and gender, overwhelmingly target young people.   Most importantly, it must be based on solid social scientific evidence, not feminist orthodoxy. The evidence is substantial and it leads to a simple conclusion: most rapists force victims to have sex because they want sex.
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Overwhelmingly target young people? Again what does this have to do with his argument.

What evidence? They are making statements that have nothing to do with the argument.

And that is why I called it BS.

 
badmojo1006 said:
What does that have to do with anything.

THIS an argument for Rape is about sex instead of power? SOunds like 7th grade Social Studies.

Wow. This guy is a professor? Once again, this has nothing to do with his argument. Actually proves the opposite. He calls it an assualt and it is about forcing the women. That's power

Overwhelmingly target young people? Again what does this have to do with his argument.

What evidence? They are making statements that have nothing to do with the argument.

And that is why I called it BS.
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They pore over the FBI stats to show that statistically, rape victim demographics overlap to a very statistically significant degree the demographics of thise whim society considers sexually attractive. 

 
Rove! said:
They pore over the FBI stats to show that statistically, rape victim demographics overlap to a very statistically significant degree the demographics of thise whim society considers sexually attractive. 
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Correlation/Causation?

Younger women are seen as more attractive.

Younger women also are more vulnerable (less experienced, savvy, etc) and/or are in settings which put them at risk.   

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Correlation/Causation?

Younger women are seen as more attractive.

Younger women also are more vulnerable (less experienced, savvy, etc) and/or are in settings which put them at risk.   
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Elderly woman are also vulnerable, probably less savvy, possibly compromised cognitively and may have dependencies on other members of society that would put them at risk, but there is no uptick for that group...

 
>>“He pushed me up against the wall, and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again,” Harth said, “and I had to physically say: ‘What are you doing? Stop it.’ It was a shocking thing to have him do this because he knew I was with George, he knew they were in the next room. And how could he be doing this when I’m there for business?”<<

Jill Harth.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
What in the actual hell is the point here? You’re arguing about Carroll’s point about how rape is perceived, not about whether Trump did what he’s accused of.
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I am arguing, and the research backs me up on this, that there is an element to the crime that the perpetrator considers his victim to be sexually attractive.  It is one of the reasons that “date rape” and “acquaintance rape” are the most common instances.  This DOES NOT make it sexy or a fantasy.  It’s still just as sick and horrific and violent.

 
Rove! said:
I am arguing, and the research backs me up on this, that there is an element to the crime that the perpetrator considers his victim to be sexually attractive.  It is one of the reasons that “date rape” and “acquaintance rape” are the most common instances.  This DOES NOT make it sexy or a fantasy.  It’s still just as sick and horrific and violent.
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Trump is *lying about her not having been attractive to him.

 
Rove! said:
I am arguing, and the research backs me up on this, that there is an element to the crime that the perpetrator considers his victim to be sexually attractive.  It is one of the reasons that “date rape” and “acquaintance rape” are the most common instances.  This DOES NOT make it sexy or a fantasy.  It’s still just as sick and horrific and violent.
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I hope you are not considering that link you posted as research. All he does is make random quotes and has nothing to back it up.

 
Rove! said:
I am arguing, and the research backs me up on this, that there is an element to the crime that the perpetrator considers his victim to be sexually attractive.
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Oh. So when the perpetrator doesn't consider the victim to be sexually attractive, that means that the perpetrator didn't rape that victim. Is that how the argument works?

 
[scooter] said:
Oh. So when the perpetrator doesn't consider the victim to be sexually attractive, that means that the perpetrator didn't rape that victim. Is that how the argument works?
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Not quite.  The perpetrator *claims that he doesn’t (or didn’t) consider the victim sexually attractive.  

The compulsive liar perpetrator.   

 
Rove! said:
If you read her account, it infers there was a romantic or sexual interest prior to the attack

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape

So, when he says that she is not his type, he is refuting that there could even be an initial sexual or romantic encounter leading up to the rape.
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Yeah,  right.  I guess it was the same after Jessica Leeds said that Trump groped her on an airplane in the 1980s, he said “believe me, she would not be my first choice.” 

The excuses people make for this guy blow my mind.  It is okay, you can still be a Trump supporter and admit it when he says stuff that he shouldn't. 

 
Bumping this thread for the Trump supporters in the Epstein thread who seem to be having trouble finding it.  I'm a little busy this afternoon but if any of you would like to discuss the many allegations of sexual misconduct by President Trump in detail later this week I'd be happy to do so!

 
Max Power said:
It's not like she dropped off page 1.  There is hardly any mention of her in the last week. 
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it's been usurped by other stories. that's the speed of the news cycle now. we were focused on Trump's 4th of July thing last week. this week it's Epstein. the only thing that is truly evergreen in the border crisis with camps and worsening conditions. 

 
saintfool said:
it's been usurped by other stories. that's the speed of the news cycle now. we were focused on Trump's 4th of July thing last week. this week it's Epstein. the only thing that is truly evergreen in the border crisis with camps and worsening conditions. 
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Not a good look for the media IMO.

 
Max Power said:
saintfool said:
it's been usurped by other stories. that's the speed of the news cycle now. we were focused on Trump's 4th of July thing last week. this week it's Epstein. the only thing that is truly evergreen in the border crisis with camps and worsening conditions. 
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Not a good look for the media IMO.
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On the contrary, I think the media is acting fairly responsibly here. It's not their job to be a cheerleader for a particular cause. Once the cycle of a story has completed its natural course (reporting the story, then the response to the story, then the follow-up interviews, etc.), then it's perfectly appropriate to allow the story to be dormant until new evidence justifies another follow-up.

On the other hand, if Jean Carroll is asking to be interviewed and none of the major media outlets will talk to her, then yes I would say that it's not a good look for the media. But I haven't really seen evidence of that.

 
Max Power said:
Not a good look for the media IMO.
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i'm sure they'd give it a deeper dive or a longer shelf life if there wasn't a crisis every single day because of the White House and it's media strategy of deflection and distraction. two weeks ago we were talking about the Iranians and Trump visiting North Korea. 

 
Max Power said:
I'll stick with the claim that the media letting a rape allegation against our current president fall off the radar in less than two weeks is a bad look on them.
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But but but the MSM bias against Trump is real  :cry:  He's done nothing wrong ever and the masses of people with seemingly legitimate claims against him are all lying liars! The guy constantly spouting off verifiable lies on twitter is actually telling the truth in all these instances.

/s

 
Max Power said:
Hey I'm not going to argue.  If you're happy with the media coverage of this, I won't bring it up again.
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I just think it's a matter of "be careful what you wish for". If the media relentlessly hammers the Carroll story every single day (despite the lack of new developments), then A) the public is going to get bored with it, and B) Trump and the right wing media will go crazy about how the liberal media is obsessed with the President.

And that will make it less likely that people will be outraged by the next scandal.

 
[scooter] said:
I just think it's a matter of "be careful what you wish for". If the media relentlessly hammers the Carroll story every single day (despite the lack of new developments), then A) the public is going to get bored with it, and B) Trump and the right wing media will go crazy about how the liberal media is obsessed with the President.

And that will make it less likely that people will be outraged by the next scandal.
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Exactly how the Russian probe has completely backfired on the left and CNN.

 
zoonation said:
I don’t believe any Trump supporter in this forum genuinely believes that every single one of these women is lying about the sexual assault/rape allegations against Trump.  

They just overlook it.   
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timschochet said:
I just can’t get past that answer “She’s not my type.” Every woman I know that hears that cringes- including my step-mother in law, who has been a Trump supporter. She thinks he’s a pig though. 
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I feel like I need to start beating the 2-party system (as it currently stands) is not good for us drum again.  The reason this scenario is possible is somebody who has wrapped their identity and self worth around being a Republican is, in most cases, not going to “turn their back on the party” when they feel there’s too much to lose.  

 
And to be clear, I think the same could happen on the other side but I have a feeling we won’t see anything like Trump again ( hopefully I’m not being naive).

ETA - to clarify even further - a person that would take some extreme left-leaning stances and be a corrupt person.

 
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AAABatteries said:
I feel like I need to start beating the 2-party system (as it currently stands) is not good for us drum again.  The reason this scenario is possible is somebody who has wrapped their identity and self worth around being a Republican is, in most cases, not going to “turn their back on the party” when they feel there’s too much to lose.  
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IMO the positives of the two party system far outweighs the negatives. This is so despite the current strong tribalism that exists. 

 
timschochet said:
IMO the positives of the two party system far outweighs the negatives. This is so despite the current strong tribalism that exists. 
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I think you’ve said this before - can you list those?  You may be right but currently the tribalism doesn’t seem to be getting any better.

 
AAABatteries said:
I think you’ve said this before - can you list those?  You may be right but currently the tribalism doesn’t seem to be getting any better.
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Long term stability and avoidance of extremism are the most important attributes. I realize people might laugh at this at the current time because Trump is certainly the most extreme President we’ve ever had. But note that as much as he might like to, he can’t accomplish most of the extremist goals he desires because the system prevents him from doing so. On the other hand take a look at Israel: their multi-party system has given some extremist hardline conservatives power that they’d never have here to force their views into reality, often with disastrous results. 

 
timschochet said:
Long term stability and avoidance of extremism are the most important attributes. I realize people might laugh at this at the current time because Trump is certainly the most extreme President we’ve ever had. But note that as much as he might like to, he can’t accomplish most of the extremist goals he desires because the system prevents him from doing so. On the other hand take a look at Israel: their multi-party system has given some extremist hardline conservatives power that they’d never have here to force their views into reality, often with disastrous results. 
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The system is preventing his methodology/premise, not the ideas.  This administration's ineptitude is staggering, but saving the country from a lot worse results if say a Pence or Cruz were running the show.

 
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