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Looks to me like it's the only play the offense works on during the week.
I think they're just telling the center and tackles to wait a second after the snap count and the guards go right away. The defense can't move until the ball moves and most of them are staring directly at the ball so the center pausing has the effect of the guards going early.
I came here to post almost this exact thing. There is just no way you can give Hurts his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th effort on these scrums but that also not be a fumble.Most of the time the Tush Push teams gets to push forever, even well after the momentum of the play has stopped.
Not today. The Eagles fumbled the ball on the Tush Push. Whistle, end of play. No fumble.
Just when you think this play has hit rock bottom, it finds new ways to fail.
I hope you are correct. However, the Tush Push is like the blond brother in Die Hard. Just because we think it's over, it doesn’t mean that's it. We need to make sure before we reconnect with our significant other. Only when we know for sure can we get into the limo, go home, and celebrate with a legit Tush Push. Yippee-ki-yay Mother-Pusher!!
How dare you bring my son’s doppelgänger into the discussion!
I agree with this. I was resolved to the fact that I didn't like the play because my team wasn't the team that perfected it. So I accepted it as that. Now with the refs not calling any of the false start penalties and yesterday somehow the fumble was after the whistle I am completely out.I came here to post almost this exact thing. There is just no way you can give Hurts his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th effort on these scrums but that also not be a fumble.Most of the time the Tush Push teams gets to push forever, even well after the momentum of the play has stopped.
Not today. The Eagles fumbled the ball on the Tush Push. Whistle, end of play. No fumble.
Just when you think this play has hit rock bottom, it finds new ways to fail.
They can’t — but they will still try
Probably the smartest statement made regarding this play. Especially for the resaon why.
There hasn't been anybody in here defending the call from yesterday or the play. Maybe they will give up?
So pretty much like every game.
That pretty much doesn't do anything to shut up those that think the NFL is rigged.
I'm not here to defend the call, but it has little to do with this play. That was an egregious call by refs that made numerous egregious calls. The Dart "forward pass" overuling a fumble, the OPI that didn't really exist, just call after call went the wrong direction yesterday. That's a problem with the refs, not a problem with the play. I mean, I am a die hard Eagles fan and a strong proponent of the Tush Push. What happened on the "non-fumble" play was not difficult in the slightest to officiate. Jalen clearly fumbled the ball and it should have been called that way. Everyone I was watching with agreed. Everyone in the game thread agreed. All my friends in group chats agreed. Those refs should be fired, frankly.
The difficult is deciding when forward progress has been stopped. Typically there is an initial surge, then a second-3rd-4th-5th surge after what appears to be a stop in momentum. This is never officiated consistently. it's very difficult. The tush push is inherently going to have this setup. Much of the discourse is around the advantage given to the offense for this type of play and the "fumble" is a good example. The pushing team generally gets the benefit of the doubt in all manors for this. They get the multiple surge points to get the yard to gain but not when a fumble happens. This isn't the first time something like that has occurred but it was probably the easiest to see that the ruling was incorrect.
Your last statement says it all as to whether they should get rid of it.
I’m pretty sure they’ve been instructed to call a penalty when the o line goes before the ball is snapped. They just won’t
Nice deflection away from the tush push this thread is about.
I'm really kind of surprised another official didn't come in to help out on the OPI call....and have them pick up the flag....if nothing else there was hand fighting by both players and at one point the Eagle defender had a handful of jersey or undershirt and was holding/pulling him....game changer...as was the fumble....
It seems to me only the Eagles benefit from the bad officiating of this play. Correct me if I’m wrong.
if more teams ran it in terms of volume and style like the eagles.....more teams would probably reap the benefit....
Would that help the officiating of the play?
nope....still be tough to officiate....just more of them....
So you had to go back to last year, got it.
Looks like to me they are moving before the ball is snapped every time they run it.
I've posted elsewhere that while I didn't think the call egregious as his momentum had been stopped (a second time) the gap between when it had stopped and when the ball came out was too short. It should have been called a fumble. But it's the kind of miss we see in every game all the time. A judgment call that is a heck of a lot easier to question with the benefit of replay.
Assuming you're talking in the general sense and not just that play in that game...you're not quite accurate. Defenders are often in the neutral zone at the snap.
How many times have they been called for it vs how many times have they gotten away with it?
A divisional playoff game where the winning team gets to host the NFCCG. At the time the Eagles were up 1 point, in the 4th quarter. Seems like a much more important example to use than any regular season game. But your post didn't place a time limit on play, you can move the goalposts all you want. We both know your position isn't really that strong here.
Ignore the Tush push part of it for a minute. The NFL forward progress definition might be worse than the catch rule at this point. What is even the rule? If you get stopped for a second, then surge forward for the first down on ANY play, they call that second effort and give you a first down. If you get stopped for a second, but then go backwards, you get it up where you initially got stopped. If you get stopped for a second, but then fumble, ball to the offense. Is that roughly how its always called now? So essentially the refs are playing advantage like soccer, nothing after that initial stop can hurt you, you can gain more, but nothing bad can happen.
So they have been called once out of 178 times they ran it when it should be called probably closer to 50-60% of the times they run it?
A divisional playoff game where the winning team gets to host the NFCCG. At the time the Eagles were up 1 point, in the 4th quarter. Seems like a much more important example to use than any regular season game. But your post didn't place a time limit on play, you can move the goalposts all you want. We both know your position isn't really that strong here.
So they have been called once out of 178 times they ran it when it should be called probably closer to 50-60% of the times they run it?
A divisional playoff game where the winning team gets to host the NFCCG. At the time the Eagles were up 1 point, in the 4th quarter. Seems like a much more important example to use than any regular season game. But your post didn't place a time limit on play, you can move the goalposts all you want. We both know your position isn't really that strong here.
technically as soon as an official determines forward progress has stopped, the whistle is supposed to be blown....whats hard is often we as viewers never really know when the whistle is blown....as an official myself there is a point where even though the ball carrier may be "trying" to fight for extra yardage (second effort)....he just isn't getting any further so we are supposed to blow the whistle (to help avoid injury etc.) ....there is a little bit of a gray area and when to blow the whistle is a judgment call...it really comes down to an official having to decide if the defender has done enough to stop the play or does the ball carrier still have a chance to keep going forward....it's kind of hard to explain but it's a lot like pr0n....you know it when you see it....what causes problems is if an official doesn't put air in the whistle at the time they have determined forward progress to have stopped....and I think that is a problem at the NFL level because the officials are encouraged to let the play "play out" because they can always fall back on replay.....but if forward progress is determined to have stopped before a fumble....there is no replay...
The whistle was clearly blown after the fumble.
For a false start? It should be called 100% of the time.So they have been called once out of 178 times they ran it when it should be called probably closer to 50-60% of the times they run it?
A divisional playoff game where the winning team gets to host the NFCCG. At the time the Eagles were up 1 point, in the 4th quarter. Seems like a much more important example to use than any regular season game. But your post didn't place a time limit on play, you can move the goalposts all you want. We both know your position isn't really that strong here.
No, they've been called for false starts multiple times. Using the refs ability/inability to officiate false starts seems like a strange angle to take to ban a play. How many penalties would be acceptable for you. You can literally call holding on the offensive line every play, what is acceptable and what isn't?
