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cockroach said:
Imagine lamenting the existence of social media while posting on a msg board.
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I get your point, but message boards like this aren't what people are talking about when they talk about the negative side of social media. This is a fairly small community of people who have "known" each other for a long time. This is nothing like the insane dopamine factory of Twitter or TikTok. Neither is Reddit, for example. There's a good reason why governments don't care what happens on those sites but actively colluded with the former management of Twitter.
 
cockroach said:
Imagine lamenting the existence of social media while posting on a msg board.
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Meh.....i'd probably agree with you if message boards were remotely similar to the algorithmic outlets. But they arent. If you find someone pissing and moaning about AOL Instant Messenger, youd likely be onto sometime.
 
The Commish said:
cockroach said:
Imagine lamenting the existence of social media while posting on a msg board.
Click to expand...
Meh.....i'd probably agree with you if message boards were remotely similar to the algorithmic outlets. But they arent. If you find someone pissing and moaning about AOL Instant Messenger, youd likely be onto sometime.
Click to expand...

The algorithm for message boards is more organic, but still exists, imo. You're not going to find a yoga pants thread on a knitting mb (well, you actually probably will but it will be a discussion over Lululemon vs Lalalettuice not oooweee look at that booty).
 
cockroach said:
The Commish said:
cockroach said:
Imagine lamenting the existence of social media while posting on a msg board.
Click to expand...
Meh.....i'd probably agree with you if message boards were remotely similar to the algorithmic outlets. But they arent. If you find someone pissing and moaning about AOL Instant Messenger, youd likely be onto sometime.
Click to expand...

The algorithm for message boards is more organic, but still exists, imo. You're not going to find a yoga pants thread on a knitting mb (well, you actually probably will but it will be a discussion over Lululemon vs Lalalettuice not oooweee look at that booty).
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The only algo on this board is the "related threads" section. The rest is 100% in your control in terms of what you see. They arent remotely similar.
 
The Commish said:
The only algo on this board is the "related threads" section. The rest is 100% in your control in terms of what you see. They arent remotely similar.
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Right, but the purpose of the algorhythms is to present you with other things you're probably interested in and keep you engaged. On reg ol msg boards that happens organically based on the community. Ie, I come to the FFA to check out the betting and stocks thread and then notice there's a Vegas thread and see what's going on in there, or w/e.
 
The ad revenue problem is for real, not going anywhere, and will not be fixed by engineering.

Competition for ad dollars has increased-the new streaming services-companies are also spending less, and Twitter was always at the back of the line anyway.

This was the reality before the last two weeks.

But now he needs to get this thing so it's losing as little as possible (becoming profitable is a joke, c'mon), so he needs to dramatically increase ad revenue. That's a tough ask.v
 
massraider said:
The ad revenue problem is for real, not going anywhere, and will not be fixed by engineering.

Competition for ad dollars has increased-the new streaming services-companies are also spending less, and Twitter was always at the back of the line anyway.

This was the reality before the last two weeks.

But now he needs to get this thing so it's losing as little as possible (becoming profitable is a joke, c'mon), so he needs to dramatically increase ad revenue. That's a tough ask.v
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It always blows my mind how these companies that basically never have and never will turn a profit get valued at such crazy numbers.
 
cockroach said:
The Commish said:
The only algo on this board is the "related threads" section. The rest is 100% in your control in terms of what you see. They arent remotely similar.
Click to expand...

Right, but the purpose of the algorhythms is to present you with other things you're probably interested in and keep you engaged. On reg ol msg boards that happens organically based on the community. Ie, I come to the FFA to check out the betting and stocks thread and then notice there's a Vegas thread and see what's going on in there, or w/e.
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On regular message boards, YOU have to choose what you look at as EVERYTHING is presented to you ALL the time. That's not remotely close to how the other platforms work. You're trying really hard to make these things similar when they really aren't. To put it another way, when you and I come to this board, we see the exact same thing (unless you have people on ignore etc). If you and I go to twitter, we will see VERY different things over time. Those platforms form an echo chamber for you in a way this place never could. For that reason alone they aren't really worthy of comparison.
 
The Commish said:
cockroach said:
The Commish said:
The only algo on this board is the "related threads" section. The rest is 100% in your control in terms of what you see. They arent remotely similar.
Click to expand...

Right, but the purpose of the algorhythms is to present you with other things you're probably interested in and keep you engaged. On reg ol msg boards that happens organically based on the community. Ie, I come to the FFA to check out the betting and stocks thread and then notice there's a Vegas thread and see what's going on in there, or w/e.
Click to expand...
On regular message boards, YOU have to choose what you look at as EVERYTHING is presented to you ALL the time. That's not remotely close to how the other platforms work. You're trying really hard to make these things similar when they really aren't. To put it another way, when you and I come to this board, we see the exact same thing (unless you have people on ignore etc). If you and I go to twitter, we will see VERY different things over time. Those platforms form an echo chamber for you in a way this place never could. For that reason alone they aren't really worthy of comparison.
Click to expand...

The analogy that comes to mind is a fancy restaurant where you're just served whatever courses the chef has set up vs a place you order off a menu. You can make the argument that they aren't worthy of comparison, but in the end you're sitting around a table eating and making convo.

Do you believe algorithms are inherently bad? I can't speak to the Twitter algo, but I find YT's pretty useful in presenting me stuff I'm interested in. There's plenty of duds too but it's easy enough to just block channels you don't like.

For a place the size of Twitter, I def think it's a necessary "evil". I shouldn't be seeing the same tweets as some middle aged housewife in the Midwest. We have completely different interests.

The problem is they pump the most divisive stuff because it's been determined that outrage is the best engager.

But again, the same effect happens in msg boards organically when the spicy convos keep getting replies bumping them to the top and eventually drawing more eyes.
 
cockroach said:
The Commish said:
cockroach said:
The Commish said:
The only algo on this board is the "related threads" section. The rest is 100% in your control in terms of what you see. They arent remotely similar.
Click to expand...

Right, but the purpose of the algorhythms is to present you with other things you're probably interested in and keep you engaged. On reg ol msg boards that happens organically based on the community. Ie, I come to the FFA to check out the betting and stocks thread and then notice there's a Vegas thread and see what's going on in there, or w/e.
Click to expand...
On regular message boards, YOU have to choose what you look at as EVERYTHING is presented to you ALL the time. That's not remotely close to how the other platforms work. You're trying really hard to make these things similar when they really aren't. To put it another way, when you and I come to this board, we see the exact same thing (unless you have people on ignore etc). If you and I go to twitter, we will see VERY different things over time. Those platforms form an echo chamber for you in a way this place never could. For that reason alone they aren't really worthy of comparison.
Click to expand...

The analogy that comes to mind is a fancy restaurant where you're just served whatever courses the chef has set up vs a place you order off a menu. You can make the argument that they aren't worthy of comparison, but in the end you're sitting around a table eating and making convo.

Do you believe algorithms are inherently bad? I can't speak to the Twitter algo, but I find YT's pretty useful in presenting me stuff I'm interested in. There's plenty of duds too but it's easy enough to just block channels you don't like.

For a place the size of Twitter, I def think it's a necessary "evil". I shouldn't be seeing the same tweets as some middle aged housewife in the Midwest. We have completely different interests.

The problem is they pump the most divisive stuff because it's been determined that outrage is the best engager.

But again, the same effect happens in msg boards organically when the spicy convos keep getting replies bumping them to the top and eventually drawing more eyes.
Click to expand...
Thats what I did...thats all I did. They arent similar enough for one to make the comparison you made in the post i replied to. Everything from technical function to end result is different in that context. The rest is a rabbit hole i didn't sign up for
 
The Commish said:
Thats what I did...thats all I did. They arent similar enough for one to make the comparison you made in the post i replied to. Everything from technical function to end result is different in that context. The rest is a rabbit hole i didn't sign up for
Click to expand...

Ok. I think there's more similarities than you chose to recognize because you utilize one and want to demonize the other.
 
bigbottom said:
BladeRunner said:
Dr. Octopus said:
supermike80 said:
Everyone needs to calm down. Seriously. It's been what a week? My god. Relax
Click to expand...
I don’t get your “schtick” in this thread.
Who is “freaking out”? People are discussing something in the news.
I guess disingenuous trolls like this is why the Political Forum had to go away and some people just miss it so much they can’t let go?
Click to expand...

Seriously, enough with the "people who don't act like me are trolls". His point was that everyone IS making this a big deal and he's only had the company for 1 week. The amount of glee and self-serving shots at Musk are unwarranted and are only done because now one side had the moderation gerrymandered in their favor for so long that they thought THAT is what actual moderation was.
Click to expand...

I can’t speak for others but I’m a huge Elon Musk fan. Not necessarily of his personality or character, but as an innovator I think his genius and drive is unparalleled. The advancements he has achieved already with SpaceX are mind boggling. Driving energy solutions with electric and solar, worldwide connectivity with Starlink, getting us to Mars, even ideas like the hyperloop and his involvement with Neuralink. And the many ideas and projects he has yet to come up with. Frankly, I can’t think of anyone alive today who will have achieved more for the human race in terms of innovation and advancement. So whatever he has in mind for Twitter I hope he either achieves or abandons it in short order so he can get back to making an impact on human history. Because fixing Twitter is a distraction.
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This. :goodposting:
 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Intentionally picking fights with Senators is the height of stupidity. On brand, for sure, but as Markey points out Musk's businesses are already under scrutiny. What does he think he's going to gain by making it personal?
Click to expand...
I must have missed his snappy comeback after that pharmacy company lost billions in stock value after the free insulin debacle.
 
cockroach said:
The Commish said:
Thats what I did...thats all I did. They arent similar enough for one to make the comparison you made in the post i replied to. Everything from technical function to end result is different in that context. The rest is a rabbit hole i didn't sign up for
Click to expand...

Ok. I think there's more similarities than you chose to recognize because you utilize one and want to demonize the other.
Click to expand...
Cant acknowledge what isnt there. I understand exactly where they are similar. The area you brought up, isnt one of those places. :shrug:

This message board is more similar to discord or chat rooms than it is facebook, YouTube or twitter. Its really silly to argue otherwise.
 
massraider said:
Social media is a symptom, not the problem.

It's not like if all social media disappeared tomorrow, everyone would be like, "well, guess I'll stop wasting time on my phone, I think I'll take up a 2nd language"
Click to expand...
if social media ended the stupid crap in our heads would at least stay in our heads again and not get spread all over the world and that would be a plus take that to the bank brohans
 
uwillbsoon said:
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Ilov80s said:
It’s going to be something weird every day

Click to expand...
Free speech absolutist.
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The guy told him he was wrong and then told him why it was slow. And he got fired.

Pissing on employees publicly is the worst thing a boss can do. Glad this guy stood up to him
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Pissing on your employer in public is also not a wise move. The whole work place has to be incredibly toxic right now.
 
kodycutter said:
No more free lunch program at Twitter. Is this a thing in tech, companies offer free lunch for employees?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - free lunches and happy hours once a week (with beer on tap or a fridge filled with them) are pretty normal still. Sometimes they have a "cafeteria" of sorts, sometimes an admin orders a big ole lunch for the office, and sometimes everyone just group orders on Doordash and it goes on the company tab. That was the biggest complaint a lot of my colleagues from a prior job had when Covid forced everyone to WFH - they'd have to pay for lunch ever day.
 
SFBayDuck said:
kodycutter said:
No more free lunch program at Twitter. Is this a thing in tech, companies offer free lunch for employees?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - free lunches and happy hours once a week (with beer on tap or a fridge filled with them) are pretty normal still. Sometimes they have a "cafeteria" of sorts, sometimes an admin orders a big ole lunch for the office, and sometimes everyone just group orders on Doordash and it goes on the company tab. That was the biggest complaint a lot of my colleagues from a prior job had when Covid forced everyone to WFH - they'd have to pay for lunch ever day.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but . . . we're talking about employers who expect grown adults to share an apartment because nobody can afford to buy their own housing in the Bay area. I get that there's a certain amount of prestige to working at place like this (no idea why, but w/e) but as they say, prestige doesn't pay the bills. I imagine little fringe benefits like free lunches and office happy hours represent one way to make this kind of job more materially tolerable to people.

That's not to say that ditching this benefit is bad. Just that it's easy to focus on one particular aspect of employment -- being given free food -- while losing sight of some of the massive downsides that are sitting there too.
 
IvanKaramazov said:
SFBayDuck said:
kodycutter said:
No more free lunch program at Twitter. Is this a thing in tech, companies offer free lunch for employees?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - free lunches and happy hours once a week (with beer on tap or a fridge filled with them) are pretty normal still. Sometimes they have a "cafeteria" of sorts, sometimes an admin orders a big ole lunch for the office, and sometimes everyone just group orders on Doordash and it goes on the company tab. That was the biggest complaint a lot of my colleagues from a prior job had when Covid forced everyone to WFH - they'd have to pay for lunch ever day.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but . . . we're talking about employers who expect grown adults to share an apartment because nobody can afford to buy their own housing in the Bay area. I get that there's a certain amount of prestige to working at place like this (no idea why, but w/e) but as they say, prestige doesn't pay the bills. I imagine little fringe benefits like free lunches and office happy hours represent one way to make this kind of job more materially tolerable to people.

That's not to say that ditching this benefit is bad. Just that it's easy to focus on one particular aspect of employment -- being given free food -- while losing sight of some of the massive downsides that are sitting there too.
Click to expand...

I hear you, but it's not only in the Bay Area. My last company was based in Cambridge, MA, so not cheap but not SF. Same thing goes for tech companies in Austin. But your point remains, tech companies competing for talent will throw in those perks, along with equity comp, to try and compete for talent above and beyond just salary.

I've been remote for almost 15 years so not a big deal to me. I've largely missed out on that stuff by only being in an office a few days a year.
 
IvanKaramazov said:
SFBayDuck said:
kodycutter said:
No more free lunch program at Twitter. Is this a thing in tech, companies offer free lunch for employees?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - free lunches and happy hours once a week (with beer on tap or a fridge filled with them) are pretty normal still. Sometimes they have a "cafeteria" of sorts, sometimes an admin orders a big ole lunch for the office, and sometimes everyone just group orders on Doordash and it goes on the company tab. That was the biggest complaint a lot of my colleagues from a prior job had when Covid forced everyone to WFH - they'd have to pay for lunch ever day.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but . . . we're talking about employers who expect grown adults to share an apartment because nobody can afford to buy their own housing in the Bay area. I get that there's a certain amount of prestige to working at place like this (no idea why, but w/e) but as they say, prestige doesn't pay the bills. I imagine little fringe benefits like free lunches and office happy hours represent one way to make this kind of job more materially tolerable to people.

That's not to say that ditching this benefit is bad. Just that it's easy to focus on one particular aspect of employment -- being given free food -- while losing sight of some of the massive downsides that are sitting there too.
Click to expand...

They serve another purpose as well: keep employees in the office more. Instead of leaving to grab lunch or heading home at the end of the day, now you’re grabbing the free lunch and eating out your desk, or staying a bit later to grab that free beer.
 
GroveDiesel said:
IvanKaramazov said:
SFBayDuck said:
kodycutter said:
No more free lunch program at Twitter. Is this a thing in tech, companies offer free lunch for employees?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - free lunches and happy hours once a week (with beer on tap or a fridge filled with them) are pretty normal still. Sometimes they have a "cafeteria" of sorts, sometimes an admin orders a big ole lunch for the office, and sometimes everyone just group orders on Doordash and it goes on the company tab. That was the biggest complaint a lot of my colleagues from a prior job had when Covid forced everyone to WFH - they'd have to pay for lunch ever day.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but . . . we're talking about employers who expect grown adults to share an apartment because nobody can afford to buy their own housing in the Bay area. I get that there's a certain amount of prestige to working at place like this (no idea why, but w/e) but as they say, prestige doesn't pay the bills. I imagine little fringe benefits like free lunches and office happy hours represent one way to make this kind of job more materially tolerable to people.

That's not to say that ditching this benefit is bad. Just that it's easy to focus on one particular aspect of employment -- being given free food -- while losing sight of some of the massive downsides that are sitting there too.
Click to expand...

They serve another purpose as well: keep employees in the office more. Instead of leaving to grab lunch or heading home at the end of the day, now you’re grabbing the free lunch and eating out your desk, or staying a bit later to grab that free beer.
Click to expand...

Totally. When I started in tech back during the dotcom boom I was at Oracle HQ. They had cafeterias in every building (not free but subsidized), dry cleaning drop off/delivery, a mobile dentist and mobile oil change (separate trailers!) that would come by once a week, photo developing (that's how long ago I was there), and a full gym/pool/basketball court that was way nicer than the YMCA I belonged to in SF. You could even order up dinner to go to take home for your family, further justifying staying late. Everything except the gym cost money, but the whole point was to provide those conveniences to keep you there for those extra few hours.

I've been to Google's HQ a few times over the years, although it's been awhile now. But they took all of that stuff to another level, along with a ton of cool outdoor spaces to hang out in, sand vollebyball, etc. I remember thinking on a nice summer day I'd want to just hang out there!
 
IvanKaramazov said:
SFBayDuck said:
kodycutter said:
No more free lunch program at Twitter. Is this a thing in tech, companies offer free lunch for employees?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - free lunches and happy hours once a week (with beer on tap or a fridge filled with them) are pretty normal still. Sometimes they have a "cafeteria" of sorts, sometimes an admin orders a big ole lunch for the office, and sometimes everyone just group orders on Doordash and it goes on the company tab. That was the biggest complaint a lot of my colleagues from a prior job had when Covid forced everyone to WFH - they'd have to pay for lunch ever day.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but . . . we're talking about employers who expect grown adults to share an apartment because nobody can afford to buy their own housing in the Bay area. I get that there's a certain amount of prestige to working at place like this (no idea why, but w/e) but as they say, prestige doesn't pay the bills. I imagine little fringe benefits like free lunches and office happy hours represent one way to make this kind of job more materially tolerable to people.

That's not to say that ditching this benefit is bad. Just that it's easy to focus on one particular aspect of employment -- being given free food -- while losing sight of some of the massive downsides that are sitting there too.
Click to expand...
They give you free food so that you feel compelled to live at work. My brother's old company had studio apartments in the office and provided free dinner to their employees. He eventually realized that while he was well compensated, it wasn't worth the perks to be expected to stay in the office into the night.
 
uwillbsoon said:
Juxtatarot said:
New Platformer article is a doozy: https://www.platformer.news/p/elon-only-trusts-elon
Click to expand...
I wonder what the code freeze is. Seems unusual.
Click to expand...
Could be any number of things. Twitter is still under a long-standing FTC order that requires certain security/privacy guarantees on new features. Pretty much everything Elon has rolled out has almost certainly violated that order. Maybe he finally realized that and put a freeze on everything until he can figure out what he even is required to do since either fires everyone who knew or they resigned.

Or it could have something to do with him turning off all microservices in a completely incompetent attempt to speed up Twitter for people in certain third world countries. In doing so he also managed to break 2 factor authentication for Twitter.
 
uwillbsoon said:
fatness said:
Firing 80% of your contractors without notification, some of whom are involved in content moderation, does not seem like a visionary idea.
Click to expand...
Is it common for tech companies to have that many contractors? Seemed like a lot. Nearly as many contractors as employees?
Click to expand...
Contractors are cheaper, all things considered. For example, a lot of current truck drivers are "contractors" rather than employees of trucking companies because the companies can pay them less and are required to give them fewer benefits. Same with miners.
 
uwillbsoon said:
fatness said:
Firing 80% of your contractors without notification, some of whom are involved in content moderation, does not seem like a visionary idea.
Click to expand...
Is it common for tech companies to have that many contractors? Seemed like a lot. Nearly as many contractors as employees?
Click to expand...

Probably not a good idea when there's fake accounts coming up. Twitter had to suspend their sub for blue checkmarks do to fake accounts causing some companies to have stock go down

www.democracynow.org

Twitter Lays Off More Workers, Forced to Halt “Checkmark” Subscription as Fake Accounts Flood Site

Twitter put on hold its recently launched $8 “blue checkmark” subscription service Friday after fake accounts inundated the site. Among the imposter accounts, a fake Eli Lilly account posted a tweet announcing they would make insulin free, causing the pharmaceutical company’s stock to take a...
www.democracynow.org
 
GroveDiesel said:
uwillbsoon said:
Juxtatarot said:
New Platformer article is a doozy: https://www.platformer.news/p/elon-only-trusts-elon
Click to expand...
I wonder what the code freeze is. Seems unusual.
Click to expand...
Could be any number of things. Twitter is still under a long-standing FTC order that requires certain security/privacy guarantees on new features. Pretty much everything Elon has rolled out has almost certainly violated that order. Maybe he finally realized that and put a freeze on everything until he can figure out what he even is required to do since either fires everyone who knew or they resigned.

Or it could have something to do with him turning off all microservices in a completely incompetent attempt to speed up Twitter for people in certain third world countries. In doing so he also managed to break 2 factor authentication for Twitter.
Click to expand...
This guy has no clue what he's doing. He's trying so hard to be tech CEO with these "look at me" technical posts. So ridiculous.
 
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