werdnoynek
Footballguy
That is great to see... QB want's him in when the game is on the line and goes right to him. Music to my ears as a dynasty owner.
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U of Tennessee WR Justin Hunter (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
bonesman
Footballguy
Locker was up in his face on the sideline having what looked to be a very serious discussion after all the high fiving and celebrating was over... he was right in his ear and pounding on his shoulder pads.
az_prof
Footballguy
This is why Hunter has a high ceiling.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000248432/WK-3-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hunter-twists-the-dagger
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000248432/WK-3-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hunter-twists-the-dagger
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I'm not knocking the guy, and I didn't see the play, but I think the corner he beat was some guy they signed off the street last week
You've got to see the play, it is pretty ridiculous. The way he towers over the guy is Calvin Johnson / Randy Moss, esque.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Nice catch but Butler is a scrub who has never started an NFL game and has been on 5 teams in 4 years.
az_prof
Footballguy
Kool Aid makes a valid point. Butler is a journeyman who was just signed. So I do think you need to view the play with that lens in mind. Nevertheless, Hunter makes a great play, shows great concentration, good jumping and body position, and good hands, in a clutch situation.
I will want to see him do this again against better competition, but it is a big leap forward from where he was a few weeks ago. With a rookie WR I want to see glimpses of what he can do, and this is our first glimpse and I like it.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I agree that who he made the catch over takes a bit away from the catch.
But the best thing about it isn't even the catch. It's that his QB asked the coach to put him in over Britt and then immediately went to him down the field for the game-winning TD. He threw it up and let him make a play, and that builds the kind of confidence that a rookie (and his QB) feed off of.
But the best thing about it isn't even the catch. It's that his QB asked the coach to put him in over Britt and then immediately went to him down the field for the game-winning TD. He threw it up and let him make a play, and that builds the kind of confidence that a rookie (and his QB) feed off of.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I know it's rumored that he supposedly asked for the guy, but is it possible they went to him deep 'cuz they were attacking a scrub that got signed off the street last week?
I don't mean to upset anyone
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
You act like there aren't beat up secondaries around the league every week. Its not exactly an anomaly to attack a mismatch. But Locker asked for him and threw the ball up. That's all you can really ask for as an owner.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Hilarious how people are criticizing this kids first catch (game-winning catch) because who was covering him. Nothing better to do huh?
Cool moment for a rookie to win the game like that, still like the kid's future even though he has only been successful against inferior competition.
Cool moment for a rookie to win the game like that, still like the kid's future even though he has only been successful against inferior competition.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is upset. It just seems like Hunter has an unusually large set of critics in the Shark Pool.
-First he was a bust because his WR coach publicly criticized him in training camp.
-Then when he was inactive week 1, the AJ Jenkins comparisons started flying around.
-Then when activated week 2, it was only because Damian Williams was injured.
-Now when he makes a game winning TD catch, its because he did it against a journeyman corner.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I think there's a very high degree of sensitivity here for a football board
I'd say no offense, but I don't think that's possible.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
az_prof
Footballguy
Here is some more information about the end of the game and play.
http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Jake-Locker-Leads-94-Yard-Winning-Drive-Targets-Justin-Hunter-for-TD/9044ae37-db1a-49b7-95f1-40ff717bf5b9
It reinforces the claim above that this will instill confidence in Hunter and that it reflects the confidence Locker has in Hunter.
http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Jake-Locker-Leads-94-Yard-Winning-Drive-Targets-Justin-Hunter-for-TD/9044ae37-db1a-49b7-95f1-40ff717bf5b9
It reinforces the claim above that this will instill confidence in Hunter and that it reflects the confidence Locker has in Hunter.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I already did.Kool-Aid Larry said:
Pointing out over and over again how easily offended people are until someone responds in a way that you can interpret as being offended is terrible shtick, in case you were wondering.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Ladies...calm down.
:meow:
:meow:
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
BTW, no offense, just trying to explain things here since you asked...
this was excerpted from link in post 201 above...
“We have a lot of faith in Justin. Justin is going to be an extremely special player,” offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains said. “When we had to have it, that's a guy that Jake wanted in, that's a guy that we wanted in as a coaching staff. We knew we were gonna give him a jump ball, and there was an extreme mismatch no matter who was covering him. He was gonna go up above them and catch the ball.”
seems to confirm "rumor", coming from OC?
the play is fairly short, maybe 10 seconds, you should check it out (if you haven't already since you said you hadn't), than you could get back with your actual impressions...
the last play was reportedly one in which four WRs went on vertical routes to stress the secondary (ex charger SS rodney harrison was beside himself on why CB didn't have over the top help from safety in cover two shell, but that is the point, they don't call it cover four, aren't four safeties over the top to keep the lid on all four vertical routes)...
you can read into above quote what you will, but it sounds like the plan was to get the ball to hunter, regardless of who was covering him, if he had single coverage (even if it had been pro bowl safety weddle?)...
an important takeaway point, they have a lot of confidence in him to win jump balls... so the same reason they drafted him, is the reason they went to an unproven rookie in a critical, potentially game winning situation at end of a game... the questions you have asked are logical, but we also need to acknowledge going to him in this situation represented a breakthrough in his former use in first two weeks... and he did come through with the game winner, so that increases the chance they will continue to feature him in such situations if he keeps coming through, and possibly accelerate the time table of his development (maybe if he makes more plays in beginning and middle of games, they won't need to count on last second game savers)...
if another WR had been wide open with no defender within 30 yards of him, i'm guessing he would have gone there, unless locker was too locked on to hunter, so in that sense, no, i don't think who was defending him had as much to do with locker looking in his direction as you suggested as a possibility...
the short answer to your question is that locker probably was looking for him because he is 6'4", runs a 4.4 and has 40"+ VJ... before 2011 knee injury he elicited moss comparisons... even since, still limited, he was compared to AJ green... he outplayed teammate cordarrelle patterson at tennessee in 2012 (as a WR, patterson dynamic all purpose weapon)... that is what i would do? it isn't like he hasn't done this before... in college he made other spectacular catches highpointing the ball, even in between two defenders at times (freeze frame below highlight approx 21 second mark)... dude has the catching radius of a winnebago!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFykvxt0Cg8
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az_prof
Footballguy
As for whether or not Locker specifically requested Hunter (over Britt, by implication) to be in the game on that last play or not, and why (Kool Aid suggests it may be because he saw single coverage by a bad CB), I found these two links.
This is the post game interview with Locker; he discusses the play at 1:45 and then he discusses the question of whether he asked for Hunter specifically to be in the game on that play at 5:25.
http://www.titansonline.com/media-center/videos/Jake_Locker_on_Titans_Victory_Over_Chargers/64096e36-c20f-49fb-8dfe-3d4072119619
As I hear it, he doesn't dispute the claim that he asked the coaches to play Hunter. He looks down and hesitates a bit in answering. My guess is that he knows a team issues is being brought out into the public--namely, his preference for Hunter over Britt. He doesn't say anything about Britt, diplomatically, but he does say that he thought Hunter's leaping ability would be an advantage in that situation. Of course, Britt can leap too...right? He definitely doesn't say anything about the defensive back. The KEY takeaway from this interview is that Locker did in fact ask for Hunter in that situation--if he hadn't, he would have said so when asked about it. His failure to disavow the suggestion confirms the rumor (started by the OC and reported in twitter).
This links discusses the Hunter over Britt question: it sounds like the story initially was leaked by an interview with the OC.
http://www.titansreport.com/topic/11009-jake-locker-asked-for-hunter-to-play-instead-of-britt/
This is the post game interview with Locker; he discusses the play at 1:45 and then he discusses the question of whether he asked for Hunter specifically to be in the game on that play at 5:25.
http://www.titansonline.com/media-center/videos/Jake_Locker_on_Titans_Victory_Over_Chargers/64096e36-c20f-49fb-8dfe-3d4072119619
As I hear it, he doesn't dispute the claim that he asked the coaches to play Hunter. He looks down and hesitates a bit in answering. My guess is that he knows a team issues is being brought out into the public--namely, his preference for Hunter over Britt. He doesn't say anything about Britt, diplomatically, but he does say that he thought Hunter's leaping ability would be an advantage in that situation. Of course, Britt can leap too...right? He definitely doesn't say anything about the defensive back. The KEY takeaway from this interview is that Locker did in fact ask for Hunter in that situation--if he hadn't, he would have said so when asked about it. His failure to disavow the suggestion confirms the rumor (started by the OC and reported in twitter).
This links discusses the Hunter over Britt question: it sounds like the story initially was leaked by an interview with the OC.
http://www.titansreport.com/topic/11009-jake-locker-asked-for-hunter-to-play-instead-of-britt/
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cstu
Footballguy
I don't see anything wrong with pointing out when a play is against inferior competition. No one is taking anything away from Hunter and I think you Hunter owners are being way too sensitive about this.King of the Jungle said:Hilarious how people are criticizing this kids first catch (game-winning catch) because who was covering him. Nothing better to do huh?
Cool moment for a rookie to win the game like that, still like the kid's future even though he has only been successful against inferior competition.
az_prof
Footballguy
This is hilarious.Kool-Aid Larry said:
But seriously, Kool Aid's first point--that we need to take into account the competition is valid.
However, the second claim--that somehow Locker wanted him in the game rather than Britt has something to do with the competition makes no sense and doesn't match the interview evidence.
One play doesn't not make a career. But up to this point we have been parsing Hunter's career on practice and hear say evidence; now we finally have some real, NFL game action, and he looks good. That's reassuring and promising. That's all.
az_prof
Footballguy
This is probably just some sort of injury, but interesting that Britt didn't practice today. Makes me wonder if there isn't a hubhub going on behind the scenes over last Sunday. PURE speculation, but if I were his agent and I heard the team was trying to trade him mid-season (say to Detroit), I would have him sit out practice.
Kenny Britt, WR Questionable Sep 25 Comment: Britt (unspecified injury) did not practice Wednesday, Jim Wyatt of the Tennessean reports.
Kenny Britt, WR Questionable Sep 25 Comment: Britt (unspecified injury) did not practice Wednesday, Jim Wyatt of the Tennessean reports.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
With Britt seemingly out of the way, better play from Locker, the story about Locker wanting Hunter in the game, and Hunter's execution of the play, I think that means Hunter is now 3rd in the pecking order for targets. I did not expect that to happen this season, so unless Britt somehow redeems himself and gets more playing time (keeping Hunter bench) I would bump Hunter up with other WR who are fighting for that position in targets.
I am not convinced Locker has turned the corner yet and the team is still primarily about running the ball. So those are negatives that remain.
The defensive back got turned out early on in the route.. he was beat pretty much right away because he beat himself. Hunters speed I am sure has something to do with that.
I am not convinced Locker has turned the corner yet and the team is still primarily about running the ball. So those are negatives that remain.
The defensive back got turned out early on in the route.. he was beat pretty much right away because he beat himself. Hunters speed I am sure has something to do with that.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yep. I think we saw a bit of that with Trent Richardson. Still did not think of that before the trade. Just that the snap counts really didn't make sense compared with the stated intentions for his role in the offense.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
forgot to mention earlier, but not facing the top CB will probably be the norm, not an isolated case (at first)...
as noted, if hunter will probably be third in line for targets for a while (perhaps he is pushed to top for potentially game winning-type situations like sunday against chargers?), behind nate washington and kendall wright, he will probably routinely be tasked with beating second or third best CB (depending on who shifts to inside as nickel CB)...
so the point raised by larry, while initially raised as possible reason for scepticism (meant neutrally), could from another perspective be a reason to like him even more (if and/or until a sustained high level of play, like as WR1 or WR2, begins to consistently command better caliber CBs in the future)...
of course, he could climb up the depth chart by 2014 if not sooner by attrition... looking increasingly like britt won't be around next year... washington is 30 and uncertain if he will be back, his job was reportedly not guaranteed leading up to this season (like they were for wright, hunter and britt)...
as noted, if hunter will probably be third in line for targets for a while (perhaps he is pushed to top for potentially game winning-type situations like sunday against chargers?), behind nate washington and kendall wright, he will probably routinely be tasked with beating second or third best CB (depending on who shifts to inside as nickel CB)...
so the point raised by larry, while initially raised as possible reason for scepticism (meant neutrally), could from another perspective be a reason to like him even more (if and/or until a sustained high level of play, like as WR1 or WR2, begins to consistently command better caliber CBs in the future)...
of course, he could climb up the depth chart by 2014 if not sooner by attrition... looking increasingly like britt won't be around next year... washington is 30 and uncertain if he will be back, his job was reportedly not guaranteed leading up to this season (like they were for wright, hunter and britt)...
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EBF
Footballguy
I like Hunter okay and drafted him in one of my leagues, but that hail mary wasn't some kind of insane catch. He got away with offensive PI and barely had to jump for the ball. I think there are some arrows pointing up though with Britt fading out of the picture and Locker pushing to get Hunter on the field. If you're a believer this might be the last chance to get in cheap.
az_prof
Footballguy
I agree EBF on both the pass interference and also on the arrow pointing up if Britt is leaving the picture. With regard to the first, however, someone else pointed out that the nuanced way he created separation is actually a good thing--let's face it, these kinds of interference happen all the time. A good WR knows how to do it just subtly enough that he gets away with it more often than not. I rather fancy that interpretation.
And as for the window closing on acquiring him, I can say that two weeks ago I would have taken a late first in 2014 if offered. Last week I would have taken a WR3 or a flex RB. Now? Not so much. So I think you are right. Rationally I know that this was just one play, but the negative news was becoming overwhelming. And now, the door seems to be opening as Britt keeps shooting himself in the foot.
nyy45
Footballguy
I think this play is what makes this guy a value. People look at one play and they say oh that's only one play and then he gets undervalued.
Lets go to the video tape: http://youtu.be/HE6GXID2dXk
Justin Hunter
Calvin is:
Height: 6' 5"
Lets go to the video tape: http://youtu.be/HE6GXID2dXk
Justin Hunter
- Height: 6'4"
- Weight: 196 ( I think he's at 215 now)
- Arm Length: 33¼"
- Hand Size: 9⅜"
- 10 Yard Dash: 1.54
- 40 Yard Dash: 4.35
- Vertical Jump: 39½"
- Broad Jump: 136"
- 20 Yard Shuttle: 4.33
Calvin is:
Height: 6' 5"
- Weight: 239
- Arm Length: 33⅜"
- Hand Size: 9¼"
- 10 Yard Dash: 1.52
- 20 Yard Dash: 2.53
- 40 Yard Dash: 4.35
- Vertical Jump: 42½"
- Broad Jump: 139"
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I think a more apt comparison would be an A.J. Green-lite. Super skinny frame, plucking ability, deceptive deep speed. Not Megatron.
nyy45
Footballguy
I agree with that, Green and Hunter will add some LBS in muscle over the next 2 years though
Yeah, I got yelled at early in this thread for that same comparison (Calvin - Demaryius).
nyy45
Footballguy
If we're making comparisons after one play, I'll bite. I can see the A.J Green comparison, but that's a little premature. I see a Pittsburgh Steelers Plaxico Burress and after a few seasons and more muscle you'll see a NYG Plaxico Burress.
Good size, decent speed, good body control and concentration..
Career Floor: Jerome Simpson
Career Ceiling: Plaxico Burress
Edit to add: Just watched the youtube college compilation. Yep, I see a young Plaxico.
Good size, decent speed, good body control and concentration..
Career Floor: Jerome Simpson
Career Ceiling: Plaxico Burress
Edit to add: Just watched the youtube college compilation. Yep, I see a young Plaxico.
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I got to disagree with some of this.
First I think it's subjective at best he committed PI. But if you want to go there that's ok but you got to be fair about it. He got targeted one other time in the game. Blew by the corner and got picked up by Weddle in the end zone. If we are arguing PI I personally thought Weddle committed it on Hunter and it's prevented a long 40+ yard TD. Either way the PI calls in both cases are subjective, just don't think you can knock him for possibly committing one while ignoring the fact he possibly had one committed on him that prevented a TD.
I also don't think his catch was as easy as you make it seem but rather he makes it look easy. When you are 6-4 with a 40" vertica you can make things look easy other people can't. I also noticed he did a good job of posting up and getting proper position to make a play on the ball. So much so that as I watched that play I was thinking he must have had a extensive basketball background. So I checked and maybe some of you knew this already but in fact he did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkO0Bci0LM8
Forgive me if I get a part of this wrong as I'm relying on memory but I read around the draft time in the last 8 years of the NFL draft only 4 WR's have measured at least 6-3, with a 39 inch vertical, sub 4.5 forty and at least 11 foot broad jump. Calvin, Julio, Stephen Hill and Hunter.
All that being said I unless Britt gets benched, traded or hurt his value this year is minimal and I think even if Britt was out of the picture Hunter would just get rotated in with the likes of Damian Williams. But the value in holding him is it seems like a mortal lock Britt's not coming back. He seems destined to assume that role next year and I think he's a huge upside player.
cstu
Footballguy
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
The Jets Defense will be much tougher, and Locker is going to see plenty of pressure
az_prof
Footballguy
This is a good comparison. And it did take Plaxico a couple of years to fully mature and become a dominant player who knew how to take advantage of his physical advantage.
socrates
Footballguy
I am interested in the game this weekend to watch two similar players, in my estimation: Justin Hunter and Stephen Hill. I ranked Hunter slightly higher coming out of college because I felt like he was a more complete receiver, but they both excel at getting the deep ball, both have shown lapses with their hands, both have long, lanky frames, both were broad jump champions, and both excel at competing for the jump ball.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
I'm as big a fan as Justin Hunter as there is around here, but the Burress comp isn't a good one. Burress was 6'6" 231lbs coming out of college. Hunter is 6'4" 196.
Comps to Sidney Rice (6'4" 200), AJ Green (6'4" 211) and Randy Moss (6'4" 197) are much closer from a physical standpoint anyway.
I suppose it's really easy to compare a 6'4 guy to every other 6'4 guy lol, but I'm just talking about his skill set. He's not showing me a stretch the field skill set, rather a solid possession guy. Plaxico was 230+ out of college but played like he was 180. His body type isn't a carbon copy of Plax but they look mirrored in the skill set IMO
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
cossell called hunter the top vertical threat in the draft....
the titans have said several times they drafted him for his ability to be a playmaker...
your view of him as a possession WR is definitely not the consensus from the scouting community...
the scouting community didn't come up with names like moss and green because of their similar bodies, but more importantly, due to his movement skills FOR HIS SIZE...
anyways, not sure where you got that burress wasn't a downfield threat, look at his career stats...
maybe the last two or three years his YPC average was more pedestrian, but he had some good years over about a decade long career...
he did have unusual length at 6'6", which he used to his advantage... he didn't have elite timed speed at 4.59 40, maybe he had build up speed and got faster the further he went downfield... he was long strider, and was an outstanding hurdler at 400 and 300 m distances...
hunter is significantly faster (4.44?)...
the game winning TD wasn't a possession-type play in sense of short/intermediate pass... locker made an over the top throw, gave hunter a chance to make a play, which he did...
another clue about hunter's possible future role and use... depending on if washington is around in 2014, hunter and kendall wright are likely to be the top two WRs next season (certainly britt isn't expected to be in the picture much longer?)...
though wright flashed more explosiveness at baylor, he has been the WR with the possession-like YPC average (he did have very respectable 64 receptions as rookie last year)... the titans have said they like him in the slot...
clearly hunter is an outside WR... what do you think he lacks to be a vertical threat... speed, explosiveness, hops? those are all attributes/traits he has in abundance... coupled with his height, elite body control and agility, he has what it takes to be a downfield weapon in the future with further physical maturation and development, barring injury.
the titans have said several times they drafted him for his ability to be a playmaker...
your view of him as a possession WR is definitely not the consensus from the scouting community...
the scouting community didn't come up with names like moss and green because of their similar bodies, but more importantly, due to his movement skills FOR HIS SIZE...
anyways, not sure where you got that burress wasn't a downfield threat, look at his career stats...
maybe the last two or three years his YPC average was more pedestrian, but he had some good years over about a decade long career...
he did have unusual length at 6'6", which he used to his advantage... he didn't have elite timed speed at 4.59 40, maybe he had build up speed and got faster the further he went downfield... he was long strider, and was an outstanding hurdler at 400 and 300 m distances...
hunter is significantly faster (4.44?)...
the game winning TD wasn't a possession-type play in sense of short/intermediate pass... locker made an over the top throw, gave hunter a chance to make a play, which he did...
another clue about hunter's possible future role and use... depending on if washington is around in 2014, hunter and kendall wright are likely to be the top two WRs next season (certainly britt isn't expected to be in the picture much longer?)...
though wright flashed more explosiveness at baylor, he has been the WR with the possession-like YPC average (he did have very respectable 64 receptions as rookie last year)... the titans have said they like him in the slot...
clearly hunter is an outside WR... what do you think he lacks to be a vertical threat... speed, explosiveness, hops? those are all attributes/traits he has in abundance... coupled with his height, elite body control and agility, he has what it takes to be a downfield weapon in the future with further physical maturation and development, barring injury.
