UNC Football and bball LOL (1 Viewer)

[TobiasFunke]

What about McCants. Here is his transcript.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DIKq_mpRiiM/VII3xMY8dZI/AAAAAAAAASA/ihU-Y6P4AJg/s1600/McCants%2BAFAM%2BCore%2BCourses.jpg

He said he he never took a test, turned in a paper, or even attended some of those classes. There is your proof. From one of your own PLAYERS. BOOM.

Hmmm, crickets from Tobias. Figures....

I was away for the long weekend/snow, but I'm always happy to reply to such a courteous, insightful and fair-minded poster:

As you almost certainly know already, McCants refused to speak with investigators about those allegations. This of course is not a case where he's refusing to speak to protect himself and the program from an obvious and significant violation that would cost the program a national title, as we see with Lance Thomas. This is a case where he's already made the statements publicly, so one would assume his sudden refusal to speak to investigators is because he likely knows his allegations won't stand up to questioning. Case closed. Enjoy tonight's battle of scholars.

 

[drfeelgood]

link

Report says UNC took advantage of grad school to extend eligibility of playersPosted by Kevin McGuire on March 1, 2015, 10:18 AM EST
Academic issues at the University of North Carolina continue to be dug up. This time it revolves around allegedly cutting corners to enroll players as graduate players in order to get them on the football field.

In the latest report compiled by The News & Observer, UNC kept several players eligible to play by placing them in graduate school by retroactively admitting some players and getting around other regulations for others between 2002 and 2010. The exact number of players supposedly kept eligible by this method is unconfirmed, although the report details the story of one football player and another basketball player at UNC. The information was shared to the North Carolina newspaper by a former graduate school admissions director, Cheryl Thomas, who also handed the documentation to support the claims over to the NCAA for review.

In one reported case, former UNC cornerback Michael Waddell (pictured) allegedly was placed in graduate school despite a low GPA, a lack of entrance exam score and being months past the deadline to be enrolled. Senior associate athletic director John Blanchard made a request to have Waddell admitted in the fall of 2003 before he was set to be ruled ineligible for a game against Syracuse. The request was made one day before UNC was scheduled to play Syracuse. Wadell had played in the 2003 season opener against Florida State the previous week. Blanchard’s request was reportedly submitted by UNC provost Robert Shelton, who passed on the request to graduate school dean Linda Dykstra.

Waddell went on to play his fourth year of eligibility at UNC before entering the NFL Draft. The News & Observer reports Waddell skipped classes and exams and failed out of UNC’s graduate school. But he was heading to the NFL anyway.

Thomas reportedly came forward with this information following the release of an investigative report on UNC’s affairs by Kenneth Wainstein last fall. Thomas claims to have submitted documentation to Wainstein, the NCAA and the commission that provides accreditation to UNC but three months have now passed and there has been no follow-up despite acknowledgment the documents have been received.

This latest story regarding UNC’s culture suggests UNC took advantage of graduate classes in order to extend a player’s eligibility, which supports to the idea UNC was putting athletics ahead of academics. For a university that is perceived to have gotten off lightly for past transgressions from the NCAA, this story will not sit well.

The NCAA continues to be investigating the issue of fake classes at UNC. How this relatively newer information will come into play is unknown at this point, although the NCAA did confirm to Thomas her information and documentation had been received.

 

[Archer]

what a freaking cesspool of cheaters. Its unbelievable they are still open for business. Of course some of their fans here are still saying they have done nothing wrong, asking for where the proof is, when in fact the truth is in the transcripts...with 500 altered grades, 3500 fake classes, and over 100 forged signatures over the last several decades to keep players eligible. <---- this is what their entire fan base should be wearing.

 

[chauncey]

I'm glad this thread didn't get sent go the archives.

 

[The Commish]

I'm glad this thread didn't get sent go the archives.

Easily one of my favorite in the FFA.

 

[The Commish]

link

Report says UNC took advantage of grad school to extend eligibility of playersPosted by Kevin McGuire on March 1, 2015, 10:18 AM EST
Academic issues at the University of North Carolina continue to be dug up. This time it revolves around allegedly cutting corners to enroll players as graduate players in order to get them on the football field.

In the latest report compiled by The News & Observer,

link

Report says UNC took advantage of grad school to extend eligibility of playersPosted by Kevin McGuire on March 1, 2015, 10:18 AM EST
Academic issues at the University of North Carolina continue to be dug up. This time it revolves around allegedly cutting corners to enroll players as graduate players in order to get them on the football field.

In the latest report compiled by The News & Observer, UNC kept several players eligible to play by placing them in graduate school by retroactively admitting some players and getting around other regulations for others between 2002 and 2010. The exact number of players supposedly kept eligible by this method is unconfirmed, although the report details the story of one football player and another basketball player at UNC. The information was shared to the North Carolina newspaper by a former graduate school admissions director, Cheryl Thomas, who also handed the documentation to support the claims over to the NCAA for review.

In one reported case, former UNC cornerback Michael Waddell (pictured) allegedly was placed in graduate school despite a low GPA, a lack of entrance exam score and being months past the deadline to be enrolled. Senior associate athletic director John Blanchard made a request to have Waddell admitted in the fall of 2003 before he was set to be ruled ineligible for a game against Syracuse. The request was made one day before UNC was scheduled to play Syracuse. Wadell had played in the 2003 season opener against Florida State the previous week. Blanchard’s request was reportedly submitted by UNC provost Robert Shelton, who passed on the request to graduate school dean Linda Dykstra.

Waddell went on to play his fourth year of eligibility at UNC before entering the NFL Draft. The News & Observer reports Waddell skipped classes and exams and failed out of UNC’s graduate school. But he was heading to the NFL anyway.

Thomas reportedly came forward with this information following the release of an investigative report on UNC’s affairs by Kenneth Wainstein last fall. Thomas claims to have submitted documentation to Wainstein, the NCAA and the commission that provides accreditation to UNC but three months have now passed and there has been no follow-up despite acknowledgment the documents have been received.

This latest story regarding UNC’s culture suggests UNC took advantage of graduate classes in order to extend a player’s eligibility, which supports to the idea UNC was putting athletics ahead of academics. For a university that is perceived to have gotten off lightly for past transgressions from the NCAA, this story will not sit well.

The NCAA continues to be investigating the issue of fake classes at UNC. How this relatively newer information will come into play is unknown at this point, although the NCAA did confirm to Thomas her information and documentation had been received.

I've been accused by putting words in people's mouths, so I'm going to make sure I understand the issue as seen by the FFA faithful. The issue is allowing someone who didn't have the grades to get into graduate school on their academic merit into graduate school, correct? It isn't because the person was getting to use a last year of eligibility because they were admitted to graduate school. I have this correct?

by retroactively admitting some players and getting around other regulations for others between 2002 and 2010. The exact number of players supposedly kept eligible by this method is unconfirmed, although the report details the story of one football player and another basketball player at UNC. The information was shared to the North Carolina newspaper by a former graduate school admissions director, Cheryl Thomas, who also handed the documentation to support the claims over to the NCAA for review.

In one reported case, former UNC cornerback Michael Waddell (pictured) allegedly was placed in graduate school despite a low GPA, a lack of entrance exam score and being months past the deadline to be enrolled. Senior associate athletic director John Blanchard made a request to have Waddell admitted in the fall of 2003 before he was set to be ruled ineligible for a game against Syracuse. The request was made one day before UNC was scheduled to play Syracuse. Wadell had played in the 2003 season opener against Florida State the previous week. Blanchard’s request was reportedly submitted by UNC provost Robert Shelton, who passed on the request to graduate school dean Linda Dykstra.

Waddell went on to play his fourth year of eligibility at UNC before entering the NFL Draft. The News & Observer reports Waddell skipped classes and exams and failed out of UNC’s graduate school. But he was heading to the NFL anyway.

Thomas reportedly came forward with this information following the release of an investigative report on UNC’s affairs by Kenneth Wainstein last fall. Thomas claims to have submitted documentation to Wainstein, the NCAA and the commission that provides accreditation to UNC but three months have now passed and there has been no follow-up despite acknowledgment the documents have been received.

This latest story regarding UNC’s culture suggests UNC took advantage of graduate classes in order to extend a player’s eligibility, which supports to the idea UNC was putting athletics ahead of academics. For a university that is perceived to have gotten off lightly for past transgressions from the NCAA, this story will not sit well.

The NCAA continues to be investigating the issue of fake classes at UNC. How this relatively newer information will come into play is unknown at this point, although the NCAA did confirm to Thomas her information and documentation had been received.

 

[Archer]

Cheaters gonna cheat

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Cheaters gonna cheat

Archer,

Don't you worry a little bit about something like this coming out about your Blue Devils? Do you really think that at a prestigious institution like Duke, where the average SAT score is some 20% lower for male athletes compared to non-athletes, that those athletes are successfully completing the regular academic program without some MAJOR "help"? Heck, Sean Dockery entered Duke with a high school GPA of 2.3 and an ACT score of 17 (after being stuck on 15 for a long while), yet he was able to be academically successful at a top level institution??? C'mon man!

Now I'm not saying all of this to pick on Duke...I'm just using them for this example because they are your team. I'm sure the same could be said about many universities. You act outraged and appalled that there could be some academic fraud at UNC, but deep down don't you have to wonder if something like this isn't going on at your school as well???

 

[Archer]

Zero worry about the level of record breaking cheating we've seen at UNC happening at Duke. This isn't an issue of "easy classes" which I'm sure happens at hundreds of campuses. Besides if Duke had been cheating like this the last 25 years don't you think our football would have looked a little better prior to Cutcliff's arrival?

 

[The Commish]

Cheaters gonna cheat

Archer,

Don't you worry a little bit about something like this coming out about your Blue Devils? Do you really think that at a prestigious institution like Duke, where the average SAT score is some 20% lower for male athletes compared to non-athletes, that those athletes are successfully completing the regular academic program without some MAJOR "help"? Heck, Sean Dockery entered Duke with a high school GPA of 2.3 and an ACT score of 17 (after being stuck on 15 for a long while), yet he was able to be academically successful at a top level institution??? C'mon man!

Now I'm not saying all of this to pick on Duke...I'm just using them for this example because they are your team. I'm sure the same could be said about many universities. You act outraged and appalled that there could be some academic fraud at UNC, but deep down don't you have to wonder if something like this isn't going on at your school as well???

It's "degrees of cheating" which I personally think is Cheating is cheating as far as I'm concerned. There is no question in my mind that the bold happens on every campus in America. Does it make it right? Nope. But that's the reality. It's been interesting to watch the "new levels" UNC took this to, especially given the high horse "UNC way" I've had crammed down my throat my whole life. Focus on the athletic side and punishing the athletic programs is completely missing the gift UNC has given us though IMO.

It would probably have much more staying power if the media didn't approach it from a sports angle. This was bigger than the basketball team getting in trouble. It's pretty clear how this started and how it grew. There are really only two groups of people that seem to "care" about this scandal though. The rest of the country doesn't. Yeah, you'll get some click bait here and there, but that's expected isn't it?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Ok, now I am LOLing...

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/25088642/ncaa-says-it-has-no-legal-responsibility-for-unc-academic-fraud

 

[The Commish]

Ok, now I am LOLing...

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/25088642/ncaa-says-it-has-no-legal-responsibility-for-unc-academic-fraud

Well, I was wondering what would help pass my afternoon today...bring on the This is gonna be good.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Ok, now I am LOLing...

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/25088642/ncaa-says-it-has-no-legal-responsibility-for-unc-academic-fraud

Well, I was wondering what would help pass my afternoon today...bring on the This is gonna be good.

I mean, how do you argue that you don't have legal responsibility for ensuring that student-athletes fulfill their education requirements, then turn around and punish a school for not fulfilling the student-athlete's education requirements?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Oh sure, I'm not saying they can't still punish UNC. I'm just saying it looks even worse, or there can be more avenues to argue, based on this legal stance. They just keep looking less and less necessary or potent.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Ok, now I am LOLing...

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/25088642/ncaa-says-it-has-no-legal-responsibility-for-unc-academic-fraud

Well, I was wondering what would help pass my afternoon today...bring on the This is gonna be good.

I mean, how do you argue that you don't have legal responsibility for ensuring that student-athletes fulfill their education requirements, then turn around and punish a school for not fulfilling the student-athlete's education requirements?

Not sure I see the problem here. Punishing someone for failure to do something adequately doesn't equate to liability for failing to make sure that everyone does everything adequately. For example they punish schools and students if they accept money on the grounds that they're protecting students from predatory agents or some other nonsense; that doesn't mean that if you sign a bad deal with an agent you can sue the NCAA over it.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

You deleted your post. See mine above.

 

[TobiasFunke]

You deleted your post. See mine above.

Yeah sorry about that- I thought the NCAA comment was from a court filing but then realized it wasn't, which made that whole post irrelevant.

Anyway I don't really get the problem here. It makes for a bad sound bite, and it's fun to make fun of the NCAA, and lord knows I love to make fun of the NCAA. But they're right- nothing they do puts them on the hook for making sure athletes get a certain quality of education.

 

[The Commish]

You deleted your post. See mine above.

Yeah sorry about that- I thought the NCAA comment was from a court filing but then realized it wasn't, which made that whole post irrelevant.

Anyway I don't really get the problem here. It makes for a bad sound bite, and it's fun to make fun of the NCAA, and lord knows I love to make fun of the NCAA. But they're right- nothing they do puts them on the hook for making sure athletes get a certain quality of education.

Correct. These lawsuits should be filed against the schools the students have issue with, not the NCAA.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Again, I was LOL at the absurdity. Not saying it was a smoking gun. Just laughing, as the thread title implies.

 

[BassNBrew]

Cheaters gonna cheat

Archer,

Don't you worry a little bit about something like this coming out about your Blue Devils? Do you really think that at a prestigious institution like Duke, where the average SAT score is some 20% lower for male athletes compared to non-athletes, that those athletes are successfully completing the regular academic program without some MAJOR "help"? Heck, Sean Dockery entered Duke with a high school GPA of 2.3 and an ACT score of 17 (after being stuck on 15 for a long while), yet he was able to be academically successful at a top level institution??? C'mon man!

Now I'm not saying all of this to pick on Duke...I'm just using them for this example because they are your team. I'm sure the same could be said about many universities. You act outraged and appalled that there could be some academic fraud at UNC, but deep down don't you have to wonder if something like this isn't going on at your school as well???

It's "degrees of cheating" which I personally think is Cheating is cheating as far as I'm concerned. There is no question in my mind that the bold happens on every campus in America. Does it make it right? Nope. But that's the reality. It's been interesting to watch the "new levels" UNC took this to, especially given the high horse "UNC way" I've had crammed down my throat my whole life. Focus on the athletic side and punishing the athletic programs is completely missing the gift UNC has given us though IMO.

It would probably have much more staying power if the media didn't approach it from a sports angle. This was bigger than the basketball team getting in trouble. It's pretty clear how this started and how it grew. There are really only two groups of people that seem to "care" about this scandal though. The rest of the country doesn't. Yeah, you'll get some click bait here and there, but that's expected isn't it?

I talked with a Duke grad

Cheaters gonna cheat

Archer,

Don't you worry a little bit about something like this coming out about your Blue Devils? Do you really think that at a prestigious institution like Duke, where the average SAT score is some 20% lower for male athletes compared to non-athletes, that those athletes are successfully completing the regular academic program without some MAJOR "help"? Heck, Sean Dockery entered Duke with a high school GPA of 2.3 and an ACT score of 17 (after being stuck on 15 for a long while), yet he was able to be academically successful at a top level institution??? C'mon man!

Now I'm not saying all of this to pick on Duke...I'm just using them for this example because they are your team. I'm sure the same could be said about many universities. You act outraged and appalled that there could be some academic fraud at UNC, but deep down don't you have to wonder if something like this isn't going on at your school as well???

I talked with a Duke grad last week. Her comment was that it was pretty typical to look around the first day of class and try to determine if any stud athletes were in your class. If there were it was common knowledge that the entire class would be easier than it would have been otherwise and would be catching an easy grade. I do have to give Duke credit. Rather than risking get caught bending the rules for athletes, they just dumb down the material for everyone. it's really kind of brilliant when you think about it.

 

[The Commish]

I talked with a Duke grad last week. Her comment was that it was pretty typical to look around the first day of class and try to determine if any stud athletes were in your class. If there were it was common knowledge that the entire class would be easier than it would have been otherwise and would be catching an easy grade. I do have to give Duke credit. Rather than risking get caught bending the rules for athletes, they just dumb down the material for everyone. it's really kind of brilliant when you think about it.

I'm not sure it's a secret that the hardest part of going to Duke (and a lot of other "elite" schools) is getting in.

 

[Johnny Rock]

Why is North Carolina in the NCAA Tournament?

 

[BassNBrew]

Why is North Carolina in the NCAA Tournament?

Why is water wet?

 

[Frostillicus]

Why is North Carolina in the NCAA Tournament?

They won enough game against the right teams and didn't lose very many.

 

[TPW]

UNC cited for lack of institutional control

NCAA notice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRCTzkwSjps

 

[Sammy3469]

Specifically, individuals in the academic administration on campus, particularly in the college of arts and sciences, did not sufficiently monitor the AFRI/AFAM and ASPSA departments or provide appropriate supervision for these academic units and their staffs. The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses thatwent unchecked for 18 years. This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball. Although the general student body also had access to the anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses, student-athletes received preferential access to these anomalous courses, enrolled in these anomalous courses at a disproportionate rate to that of the general student body and received other impermissible benefits not available to the general student body in connection with these courses.

The summaries give lip service to some of the details in the report.

 

[The Commish]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

 

[TPW]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

Those professors didn't invent the bogus courses in question in a vacuum. If so, what possibly did they have to gain by placing their entire academic career at risk? It's not logical.

There was certainly coordination between athletic and academic personnel given that this took place in a systematic fashion over 18 years. That interaction may not be provable given the lack of cooperation of several key former UNC employees but anybody with two working brain cells knows that it took place at some level.

As for how the NCAA handles charges specifically leveled against academic members of an institution instead of athletics, I don't know. It might give the lawyers for UNC an opening for a legal challenge. Given their mutual propensity for conniving behavior, maybe they should hire former law grad, John Edwards.

 

[pantherclub]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

Those professors didn't invent the bogus courses in question in a vacuum. If so, what possibly did they have to gain by placing their entire academic career at risk? It's not logical.

There was certainly coordination between athletic and academic personnel given that this took place in a systematic fashion over 18 years. That interaction may not be provable given the lack of cooperation of several key former UNC employees but anybody with two working brain cells knows that it took place at some level.

As for how the NCAA handles charges specifically leveled against academic members of an institution instead of athletics, I don't know. It might give the lawyers for UNC an opening for a legal challenge. Given their mutual propensity for conniving behavior, maybe they should hire former law grad, John Edwards.

Based on the WR and the emails that most certainly is true. Pretty much indisputable. Wayne Walden, Roys right hand man, is blistered in both the NOA and WR.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

They attempted to make it an athletics problem by turning the easy classes/grades into "impermissible benefits" and thus an NCAA violation. I think they did the same thing with Syracuse. I suspect UNC will challenge that particular allegation, and that their defense will obviously be that non-athletes took the classes and got the grades too. Anyway, if they do rule there were impermissible benefits to athletes they can punish just as they would if an athlete got a "normal" impermissible benefit like a free pair of shoes or payment for his signature or whatever.

As to your second question- no athlete that took any of the questionable classes is still at UNC and playing sports. The problematic classes were from 2002-2011 I think.

 

[TPW]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

They attempted to make it an athletics problem by turning the easy classes/grades into "impermissible benefits" and thus an NCAA violation. I think they did the same thing with Syracuse. I suspect UNC will challenge that particular allegation, and that their defense will obviously be that non-athletes took the classes and got the grades too. Anyway, if they do rule there were impermissible benefits to athletes they can punish just as they would if an athlete got a "normal" impermissible benefit like a free pair of shoes or payment for his signature or whatever.

As to your second question- no athlete that took any of the questionable classes is still at UNC and playing sports. The problematic classes were from 2002-2011 I think.

Which is exactly why the university has stonewalled as long as possible. It's the "What difference, at this point, does it make?" defense.

"We'd only be hurting current athletes by administering punishment. Besides, everybody does it."

 

[pantherclub]

Tobias has been great this thread. Outstanding in fact.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

They attempted to make it an athletics problem by turning the easy classes/grades into "impermissible benefits" and thus an NCAA violation. I think they did the same thing with Syracuse. I suspect UNC will challenge that particular allegation, and that their defense will obviously be that non-athletes took the classes and got the grades too. Anyway, if they do rule there were impermissible benefits to athletes they can punish just as they would if an athlete got a "normal" impermissible benefit like a free pair of shoes or payment for his signature or whatever.

As to your second question- no athlete that took any of the questionable classes is still at UNC and playing sports. The problematic classes were from 2002-2011 I think.

Which is exactly why the university has stonewalled as long as possible. It's the "What difference, at this point, does it make?" defense.

"We'd only be hurting current athletes by administering punishment. Besides, everybody does it."

This is not true at all. Both the athletic teams-especially men's basketball- and the university would benefit from quick resolution of this so they can move past it. Assuming the sanctions aren't too bad- and nobody thinks they will be for men's basketball or football, although women's basketball is a different story- the teams are better off taking their medicine quickly rather than having a black cloud lingering overhead. One five star recruit basically said he would have gone to UNC but for the possibility of sanctions- he ended up picking Duke instead. The men's basketball team doesn't have any blue chip recruits in this incoming class.

 

[TPW]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

They attempted to make it an athletics problem by turning the easy classes/grades into "impermissible benefits" and thus an NCAA violation. I think they did the same thing with Syracuse. I suspect UNC will challenge that particular allegation, and that their defense will obviously be that non-athletes took the classes and got the grades too. Anyway, if they do rule there were impermissible benefits to athletes they can punish just as they would if an athlete got a "normal" impermissible benefit like a free pair of shoes or payment for his signature or whatever.

As to your second question- no athlete that took any of the questionable classes is still at UNC and playing sports. The problematic classes were from 2002-2011 I think.

Which is exactly why the university has stonewalled as long as possible. It's the "What difference, at this point, does it make?" defense.

"We'd only be hurting current athletes by administering punishment. Besides, everybody does it."

This is not true at all. Both the athletic teams-especially men's basketball- and the university would benefit from quick resolution of this so they can move past it. Assuming the sanctions aren't too bad- and nobody thinks they will be for men's basketball or football, although women's basketball is a different story- the teams are better off taking their medicine quickly rather than having a black cloud lingering overhead. One five star recruit basically said he would have gone to UNC but for the possibility of sanctions- he ended up picking Duke instead. The men's basketball team doesn't have any blue chip recruits in this incoming class.

Vacating big historical wins for ineligible athletes and present day post-season bans could hurt a lot more. The only quick resolution is for UNC to admit complete culpability and take whatever punishment the NCAA throws at them. I've seen nothing during the last four years of investigations to indicate that is the course of action it will take.

From the firing of whistleblowers to the sham Martin Report to the refusal of key witnesses to provide testimony, it's been obfuscation since day one.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

They attempted to make it an athletics problem by turning the easy classes/grades into "impermissible benefits" and thus an NCAA violation. I think they did the same thing with Syracuse. I suspect UNC will challenge that particular allegation, and that their defense will obviously be that non-athletes took the classes and got the grades too. Anyway, if they do rule there were impermissible benefits to athletes they can punish just as they would if an athlete got a "normal" impermissible benefit like a free pair of shoes or payment for his signature or whatever.

As to your second question- no athlete that took any of the questionable classes is still at UNC and playing sports. The problematic classes were from 2002-2011 I think.

Which is exactly why the university has stonewalled as long as possible. It's the "What difference, at this point, does it make?" defense.

"We'd only be hurting current athletes by administering punishment. Besides, everybody does it."

This is not true at all. Both the athletic teams-especially men's basketball- and the university would benefit from quick resolution of this so they can move past it. Assuming the sanctions aren't too bad- and nobody thinks they will be for men's basketball or football, although women's basketball is a different story- the teams are better off taking their medicine quickly rather than having a black cloud lingering overhead. One five star recruit basically said he would have gone to UNC but for the possibility of sanctions- he ended up picking Duke instead. The men's basketball team doesn't have any blue chip recruits in this incoming class.

Vacating big historical wins for ineligible athletes and present day post-season bans could hurt a lot more. The only quick resolution is for UNC to admit complete culpability and take whatever punishment the NCAA throws at them. I've seen nothing during the last four years of investigations to indicate that is the course of action it will take.

From the firing of whistleblowers to the sham Martin Report to the refusal of key witnesses to provide testimony, it's been obfuscation since day one.

I'm not sure what that has to do with stonewalling or whether the slow process helps or hurts the teams, and I'm starting to suspect you're more interested in ranting than discussing the actual notice of allegations and its impact.

 

[TPW]

And I'm starting to suspect that you're not being intentionally obtuse. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see what happens.

"Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;

The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,

And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout;

But there is no joy in Chapel Hill — the mighty Tar Heels have struck out."

 

[The Commish]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

There was certainly coordination between athletic and academic personnel given that this took place in a systematic fashion over 18 years. That interaction may not be provable given the lack of cooperation of several key former UNC employees but anybody with two working brain cells knows that it took place at some level.

As for how the NCAA handles charges specifically leveled against academic members of an institution instead of athletics, I don't know. It might give the lawyers for UNC an opening for a legal challenge. Given their mutual propensity for conniving behavior, maybe they should hire former law grad, John Edwards.

I think the professors answered it and the transcripts have been posted here several times as well as articles. Feel free to believe or disbelieve any/all/none as you see fit As such, I don't think it was an accident the NCAA worded their notice the way they did. My question still stands.

 

[The Commish]

So genuine question here. What's the recourse by the NCAA when they find that the academic side of an institution has run amuck? How do they punish? It's typically when the NCAA has found the athletic side running amuck. When that occurs, they "drop the hammer" on the sports team (usually well after the offenders are gone), but here it's a little different. Is any athlete that took any of these classes in any sport now exposing their team to possible penalties?

It's usually a punishment because the university couldn't keep the athletic program in check. Now it's flipped around the other way?

They attempted to make it an athletics problem by turning the easy classes/grades into "impermissible benefits" and thus an NCAA violation. I think they did the same thing with Syracuse. I suspect UNC will challenge that particular allegation, and that their defense will obviously be that non-athletes took the classes and got the grades too. Anyway, if they do rule there were impermissible benefits to athletes they can punish just as they would if an athlete got a "normal" impermissible benefit like a free pair of shoes or payment for his signature or whatever.

As to your second question- no athlete that took any of the questionable classes is still at UNC and playing sports. The problematic classes were from 2002-2011 I think.

That's what I figured...thanks. Will be interesting to see how this goes. We all know the NCAA doesn't have a positive reputation around consistency.

 

[TPW]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/05/sports/ncaafootball/north-carolina-charged-with-five-violations-by-ncaa.html?_r=0

— Former office administrator Deborah Crowder, one of two department staff members most directly linked to irregular courses in the department, did not cooperate with N.C.A.A. investigators.

— Former department chairman Julius Nyang’oro, the other staff member most directly linked to the department’s irregular courses, also declined to cooperate.

 

[tdoss]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/05/sports/ncaafootball/north-carolina-charged-with-five-violations-by-ncaa.html?_r=0

Former office administrator Deborah Crowder, one of two department staff members most directly linked to irregular courses in the department, did not cooperate with N.C.A.A. investigators.

Former department chairman Julius Nyangoro, the other staff member most directly linked to the departments irregular courses, also declined to cooperate.

Did they ever find Wayne Walden?

Last I checked in on this subject...the dude disappeared like Hoffa.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/05/sports/ncaafootball/north-carolina-charged-with-five-violations-by-ncaa.html?_r=0

Former office administrator Deborah Crowder, one of two department staff members most directly linked to irregular courses in the department, did not cooperate with N.C.A.A. investigators.

Former department chairman Julius Nyangoro, the other staff member most directly linked to the departments irregular courses, also declined to cooperate.

Did they ever find Wayne Walden?

Last I checked in on this subject...the dude disappeared like Hoffa.

East Endzone or West Endzone at the Meadowlands?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

And still laughing.

 

[TLEF316]

yeah.....UNC Men's basketball will escape without any significant punishment. The damage has kinda already been done on the recruiting trail, but they'll start bouncing back now.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

yeah.....UNC Men's basketball will escape without any significant punishment. The damage has kinda already been done on the recruiting trail, but they'll start bouncing back now.

Looks like they're really coming down hard on women's basketball in the NOA. Seems odd to me.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article22823382.html#storylink=cpy

Even NC State fans have to laugh at how over the top this column is. The Paterno comparison is my favorite part.

 

[pantherclub]

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article22823382.html#storylink=cpy

Even NC State fans have to laugh at how over the top this column is. The Paterno comparison is my favorite part.

um, that's not a column thats an op-ed

Do you think Roy is going to survive this?

 

[JohnnyU]

yeah.....UNC Men's basketball will escape without any significant punishment. The damage has kinda already been done on the recruiting trail, but they'll start bouncing back now.

I disagree. They will slap them pretty hard for this IMO.

 

[TPW]

UNC Finalizing New Contract for Roy Williams

Interesting timing. It's a big 'f-you' to all of their detractors. No humility at all in these folks.

 

[The Commish]

I love this thread

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I love this thread

It is the thread that keeps on giving.