butcher boy
Footballguy
That's pretty drastic, but I think they should take the President and his agenda a bit more seriously and recognize him as the face of the party rather than trying to split it into two.
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Undocumented Immigrant Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Skoo
Footballguy
If "the people" wanted a wall to be built, they wouldn't have just flipped 40 house seats to the Democrats.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
What about a river? We can start with maybe half the southern border and see how it goes.
The Commish
Footballguy
Does Trump have any responsibility in making sure things stay together and everyone is on the same page?butcher boy said:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I agree. Those 15,000 people want that wall built.
That's almost as many people as there were in that sex cult, The Family of Love.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Knowing Trump, there would definitely be Spongetech ads on that thing.Da Guru said:
Amused to Death
Footballguy
From the link:
“If the 63 million people who voted for Trump each pledge $80, we can build the wall.” That equates to roughly 5Billion Dollars, even if we get half, that's half the wall. We can do this.
From Business Insider:
In January, Trump wanted $25 billion for his wall, but Congress shot him down and provided just $1.6 billion.
An internal report that Reuters obtained in February 2017 said the wall would cost as much as $21.6 billion. Other estimates have placed the costs higher, with Democrats asserting it could reach $70 billion to build.
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-fish-
Footballguy
well, sure. but that way they can just hand the drugs through the fence so people don't get hit on the head.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Jordan tags it with #dowhatwesaid He wants a shutdown? Followed by Pelosi being speaker? Talk about not having your hand on the pulse of what the public wants. Yikes
-fish-
Footballguy
That one guy
Footballguy
“Mexico will pay for the wall! The new trade deal is gonna make us so much money that they’re effectively funding it! Congress just needs to get their act together and give us the money to make the wall that the Mexicans are paying for! Imma give money to this non-government associated individual who I just found out about from the interwebs (HE’S A VET!) to pay for this wall that Mexico is paying for to be built maybe”
:MugatuCrazyPillsGIF:
yak651
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
This is why Democrats suck... 70 billion to build a 25 billion dollar wall. We'll never get out of debt with those aholes in office.From the link:
“If the 63 million people who voted for Trump each pledge $80, we can build the wall.” That equates to roughly 5Billion Dollars, even if we get half, that's half the wall. We can do this.
From Business Insider:
In January, Trump wanted $25 billion for his wall, but Congress shot him down and provided just $1.6 billion.
An internal report that Reuters obtained in February 2017 said the wall would cost as much as $21.6 billion. Other estimates have placed the costs higher, with Democrats asserting it could reach $70 billion to build.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
saintfool
Dead sexy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I looked into it, turns out there are ways to cross a river. Some genius invented something called a "boat" that floats on top of the water and can bear the weight of several humans. What will they think of next, right?
A wall should do the trick, though. I'd love to see those tech geeks in Silicon Valley come up with a way to get over or under a wall!
That one guy
Footballguy
Has there been a national pole that indicates how many supporters believe/expect it to be an actual wall across the entire boarder with Mexico?
timschochet
Footballguy
There may be.a shutdown- Republicans in the House are balking over the CR.
Trump however is moving the goalpost- now he’s saying that infrastructure will be tied to the wall. Sure OK.
Trump however is moving the goalpost- now he’s saying that infrastructure will be tied to the wall. Sure OK.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
That one guy
Footballguy
It’s almost like some sort of weird backlash against the NY AG dismantling the Trump charity foundation: “oh, yeah, you think can prevent Trump Inc from swindling us?!? Hold my beer, we'll do it to ourselves in his name! MAGA!!”
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
KCitons
Footballguy
Isn't this the same argument that we shouldn't ban guns because criminals will still find a way to gain access to guns?
( is this what you meant to put behind the and?) and Mexico will pay for it. If the wall would get built with US taxpayer money he would not be fulfilling his campaign promise.butcher boy said:
A medieval wall that won't stop the flow of drugs. We need border security with technology...did you know most drugs arrive in this country through legal ports of entry? Only 1 of 5 vehicles are scanned and checked for drugs. Estimates are that for $300 million in additional scanners and more border agents we could scan all the vehicles. Did you know drugs can be and are flown over border walls with drones and dropped in this country? Being a opposed to a border wall does not mean you don't want border security. Republican Representative Will Hurd (TX) has more border with Mexico than any other Representative and opposes the wall. He said response time to illegal border crossings are measured in hours and days. Will a taller bigger wall really matter?
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Similar, yes. I don't think many Americans want a gun ban though. Also, from a practical purpose, the wall will cost us billions and billions of dollars.
KCitons
Footballguy
I don't think many Americans want to ban immigration either. A gun ban wouldn't be cheap either.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah, it's kind of the same. The difference would be the elasticity of the demand- very few people are as desperate to own a gun as border-crossers are to flee poverty and violence and seek a better life for themselves and their family. But banning guns is also stupid.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I didn't bring up banning immigration. You brought up banning guns- I was just going off of what you said.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Well that's the wrong analogy- you were analogizing the wall to the gun ban, not a full immigration ban.
Also you seem to have missed the news over the last three years. The president and presumably his tens of millions of supporters definitely want to ban immigration, or at least immigration by brown people which is like 90% of immigration.
KCitons
Footballguy
Right. But, I always here the comment posted "can't we do both"? This is a country of laws. Saying that we shouldn't pass laws to regulate guns because people will still find ways to get guns (see also the war on drugs) is the same as saying we shouldn't build a wall (or a moat) because people will still find ways to circumvent whatever we do.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect immigrants to comply with a point of entry if they want to come in to this country. It will prepare them for life in the U.S. where they have to stand in line at the Post Office, DMV, and any other places where this is required.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
On the first point- the effectiveness of "prohibition laws" always depends on a variety of factors, including elasticity of demand. There's no hard and fast rule that they work or don't work. I seriously doubt a gun ban would work, but you can't just apply the same rule across the board.
On the second point- the reason it's unreasonable because the Trump administration is drastically cutting the number of asylum seekers it will admit, and further narrowing other already very narrow paths to legal immigration. That in turn drastically alters the cost/benefit of various legal and illegal immigration options.
KCitons
Footballguy
If I'm understanding you correctly, the solution is crossing the border illegally? And you're okay with that?
butcher boy
Footballguy
Are the Dems really going to blow the opportunity to get billions towards their pet projects just to hold up a piddling $5 billion for the wall simply because they want to deny Trump a victory on his agenda? Trump has all the leverage here.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The solution to what?
I'm explaining why people are always gonna cross the border illegally. If you don't like people crossing the border illegally, there are three basic options: (1) spend an absurd amount of money to stop a lot more of them, diverting resources from other areas of need (a few extra billion and/or a wall isn't gonna do it); (2) improve the quality of life in prospective immigrants' home countries so fewer try to cross the border illegally; or (3) let a lot more people in legally.
Of these, only #3 is remotely practical IMO. #3 also comes with the added bonuses of being the right thing to do, good for our overall economic health (especially as compared to the other two) and more pupusas for everyone.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Even setting aside that troubling problem of Trump explicitly saying last week that he'd take the fall for a shutdown over border wall funding with lots of cameras on hand, there's still the problem of the Dems taking control of the House in two weeks.
Let's say the first thing the House Dems do is pass a clean funding bill with everything except the wall appropriations. Then the Senate Dems hold press conferences every day asking McConnell to take up the House bill and not let an unpopular president's unpopular border wall demands stall government services, keep people out of work and harm the economy.
And then of course there's the simplest argument of all- "why do you need billions from the taxpayers? I thought Mexico was gonna pay for the wall."
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KCitons
Footballguy
Basically #3 is an open border. Are we no longer vetting immigrants? Does this apply to all borders and all those that want to come in through International flights?
Sweet J
Footballguy
Jesus. You can't just take a statement like: "the sky is blue." And then re-state it falsely into: "Tobias is saying that the sky is red."
That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.
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