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Undocumented Immigrant Thread (5 Viewers)

The Commish said:
I don't know if anyone else saw the 60 minutes piece but it was a pretty fair assessment of what's going on at the border.  It's definitely a crisis.  There is no way to walk away from that segment and think that holding out for a wall in lieu of more judges, more agents, more lawyers and more facilities is the smart play.  A wall isn't going to get people processed.  A wall isn't going to be a place where people can sleep.  A wall isn't going to keep the drugs from flowing through the points of entry.  There isn't a single issue outlined as part of the crisis in that piece that a wall would address.
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I'm going to check this out.  Thanks.

Of course a wall is not the answer to any of the problems (as you noted).  But, talking about effective measures other than a Wall doesn't play to the base.  And that is all that Trump cares about.  He's not interested in actually solving the crisis.  Trump only cares about trump and winning.  And he needs the Wall to whip up the base to help him achieve that objective.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
Since my satirical response was hidden, here's the correct response:

DJT and his stupid ideas when it comes to the southern border. 

Keep threatening to shut it down and we'll continue to see increases in all types of immigration - legal, illegal, asylum. If real people, in desperate life-threatening situations think that their window of opportunity to make it into America is closing rapidly they will act quickly. They are. Same goes for anyone trying to make it here as an immigrant. 

eta: there was nothing in my satirical response that required hiding unless someone was sensitive to the truth.
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This is 100% right. I was just wondering if any of the Trump-guys would admit it.   Mr. Tough-on-Immigration has caused it to skyrocket.

 
JuniorNB said:
This is 100% right. I was just wondering if any of the Trump-guys would admit it.   Mr. Tough-on-Immigration has caused it to skyrocket.
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I had to substitute the word "stupid" for the dreaded "r-word" in fear of getting banned again for being even more truthful. Oh well

No, DJT-folks won't admit it. They just want a wall or to completely shut down immigration. Period. They're fine with him exacerbating a humanitarian crisis

 
JuniorNB said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
Since my satirical response was hidden, here's the correct response:

DJT and his stupid ideas when it comes to the southern border. 

Keep threatening to shut it down and we'll continue to see increases in all types of immigration - legal, illegal, asylum. If real people, in desperate life-threatening situations think that their window of opportunity to make it into America is closing rapidly they will act quickly. They are. Same goes for anyone trying to make it here as an immigrant. 

eta: there was nothing in my satirical response that required hiding unless someone was sensitive to the truth.
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This is 100% right. I was just wondering if any of the Trump-guys would admit it.   Mr. Tough-on-Immigration has caused it to skyrocket.
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Mr. Tough-On-Immigration wants to protect immigrants by putting them in sanctuary cities where they can't be apprehended by the Feds.

 
Summer Wheat said:
That should be a question for all of us no matter who we support.  I am not a Trump guy but I do want answers as to why the border crisis is getting so out of control.
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It's simple supply and demand.  Restrict supply (access) and demand goes up. 

Plus I've always believed it's human nature to do the opposite of what you are told to do.

 
Sheriff Bart said:
It's simple supply and demand.  Restrict supply (access) and demand goes up. 

Plus I've always believed it's human nature to do the opposite of what you are told to do.
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With his state of emergency nonsense, everyone is saying it's now or never to escape the oppression. Trump has actually made it a state of emergency to Central America.  Keep in mind, immigration was the lowest it's been in 45 years until Trump decided to work his magic on it.

 
[scooter] said:
Mr. Tough-On-Immigration wants to protect immigrants by putting them in sanctuary cities where they can't be apprehended by the Feds.
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He doesn't really want to do that either. That whole thing was to try and embarrass the Democrats with a gotcha moment. But that blew up in his face but Trump being Trump he goes to a rally and lies to his supporters. 

President Trump claimed undocumented migrants are being sent to sanctuary cities. But he provided no evidence and his own White House disagreed. (Meg Kelly/The Washington Post)

By Salvador Rizzo 

April 30, 2019 at 3:00 AM EDT

“Last month alone, 100,000 illegal immigrants arrived at our borders, placing a massive strain on communities and schools and hospitals and public resources like nobody’s ever seen before. Now we’re sending many of them to sanctuary cities, thank you very much. They’re not too happy about it. I’m proud to tell you that was actually my sick idea, by the way. No. Hey, hey, what did they say? ‘We want them.’ I said: ‘We’ll give them to you. Thank you.’ They said, ‘We don’t want them.’

”“We’re releasing them into sanctuary cities almost exclusively. You know, sanctuary cities want them. But once we started releasing them, they didn’t want them. So, you know, they want them, they talk — they talk a good game. But once you start saying: ‘Okay. Congratulations. Here are some.’ And they don’t want them. And they fight very hard. So, the whole sanctuary city thing is a big scam.”

The Pinocchio Test

There’s no evidence that Trump’s plan to release undocumented immigrants into sanctuary cities is being implemented.

We asked all the relevant Trump administration officials to confirm the president’s claims. The silence coming from DHS, ICE and White House staff is deafening.

Let’s not forget, the White House previously said of Trump’s plan: “This was just a suggestion that was floated and rejected, which ended any further discussion.” ICE officials balked at and rejected the idea. As it stands, immigration officials mostly release immigrants in Arizona and Texas, where there are no sanctuary cities.

Trump made this claim twice in recent days, so it seems deliberate. He also claimed that sanctuary cities are turning back migrants, but the one example mentioned on his Twitter feed — Oakland — continues to welcome them.

The policy may not be real, but the Four Pinocchios are.

Four Pinocchios

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/30/president-trumps-claim-that-migrants-are-being-sent-sanctuary-cities/%3foutputType=amp

 
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In 2018 89% of asylum seekers were able to pass the initial screening that they faced significant harm in their home country. Under Trump only 17% were granted asylum.  

I don't know how people that support this can sleep at night.  All with face the Judgement of God and will beg for entrance into His Heavenly Kingdom. 

 
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People that support this just do not care about the atrocities these asylum seekers endure. They don't want those people coming here and stealing all the jobs they should be given......yadda, yada, yada.....

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
People that support this just do not care about the atrocities these asylum seekers endure. They don't want those people coming here and stealing all the jobs they should be given......yadda, yada, yada.....
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All the ones we can't fill without immigrant workers?  I thought the farmers were choosing to let the crops rot in the fields.  Is that not correct?

 
It was just reported there are 7.5 million job openings in the US.  Since we can't allow people that don't want to starved, raped, tortured and murdered in their home country, in the US, to help fill these positions, maybe lazy Americans need to take a second job. 

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
In 2018 89% of asylum seekers were able to pass the initial screening that they faced significant harm in their home country. Under Trump only 17% were granted asylum.  

I don't know how people that support this can sleep at night.  All with face the Judgement of God and will beg for entrance into His Heavenly Kingdom. 
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I think most Trump supports are good, God fearing people so they must not see it the same way otherwise they'd be spending every minute of every day on their knees praying.

 
Yeah, we don't have any Americans committing terrorist acts on American soil issue in this country. Not. At. All.

 
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timschochet said:
CNN has obtained photos of conditions at one of the border camps, which were sneaked out by someone shocked and outraged at how our government is treating these people: 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/14/americas/gallery/border-patrol-station-mcallen-texas/index.html?no-st=9999999999

Hope you have a strong stomach...
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This is why I push back on the "this isn't a crisis" shtick around here.  People conflate events happening down there and these pictures are a the result.  It's absurd.  There is absolutely a crisis going on.  Not one that a wall will fix, but there is absolutely one going on down there.

 
The Commish said:
This is why I push back on the "this isn't a crisis" shtick around here.  People conflate events happening down there and these pictures are a the result.  It's absurd.  There is absolutely a crisis going on.  Not one that a wall will fix, but there is absolutely one going on down there.
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Are we looking at the same pictures? What's worse in these pictures than what is found in almost any trailer park or most inner cities?

 
The Commish said:
This is why I push back on the "this isn't a crisis" shtick around here.  People conflate events happening down there and these pictures are a the result.  It's absurd.  There is absolutely a crisis going on.  Not one that a wall will fix, but there is absolutely one going on down there.
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When President Trump claimed that it was a crisis back in November, when he was trying to get Republicans re-elected, it was not a crisis. Now it is a crisis. But it wouldn't be, IMO, if we dealt with these people properly. It's a crisis because our government doesn't want them here and is therefore doing the absolute mimimum required by law to process them. 

 
Gawain said:
Are we looking at the same pictures? What's worse in these pictures than what is found in almost any trailer park or most inner cities?
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Granted the trailer parks in WI may be different from where you are from, but I've never seen people sitting outside with insulation blankets at a trailer park.  Also never seen groups gathered under a shelter like shown unless it was for a birthday or other party.  Who knows, maybe these pictures were taken when they were celebrating the departure of Kirstjen Nielsen?

 
timschochet said:
When President Trump claimed that it was a crisis back in November, when he was trying to get Republicans re-elected, it was not a crisis. Now it is a crisis. But it wouldn't be, IMO, if we dealt with these people properly. It's a crisis because our government doesn't want them here and is therefore doing the absolute mimimum required by law to process them. 
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No....there was a crisis.  It might not have been as large as it is now, but as soon as people started getting backed up at the border, it became a crisis.  You'll also notice several saying we desperately needed more bodies in the form of judges, housing, lawyers and enforcement to deal with it.  The pictures you see now are why.

 
The Commish said:
No....there was a crisis.  It might not have been as large as it is now, but as soon as people started getting backed up at the border, it became a crisis.  You'll also notice several saying we desperately needed more bodies in the form of judges, housing, lawyers and enforcement to deal with it.  The pictures you see now are why.
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OK. I can acknowledge all of this. 

 
Are people really making the argument: no big deal, our homeless have it just as bad! ? Even supposing for a moment this were true, what is the point of such an argument?

 
timschochet said:
Are people really making the argument: no big deal, our homeless have it just as bad! ? Even supposing for a moment this were true, what is the point of such an argument?
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To downplay how bad this administration has screwed things up and try and defend it by claiming others are supposedly hypocrites for caring about this.

 
timschochet said:
Are people really making the argument: no big deal, our homeless have it just as bad! ? Even supposing for a moment this were true, what is the point of such an argument?
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I’m guessing some are agruing that our homeless population that are us citizens living in similar conditions but get a lot less media attention and outrage.  

 
stlrams said:
I’m guessing some are agruing that our homeless population that are us citizens living in similar conditions but get a lot less media attention and outrage.  
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Did the US put them in that situation as we did with these immigrants?

Also, that would likely not be a good place for conservatives to shine a light on the differences between the Republicans and Democrats when it comes to the social safety net.

 
stlrams said:
I’m guessing some are agruing that our homeless population that are us citizens living in similar conditions but get a lot less media attention and outrage.  
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This might have some merit if the people making the argument were people that generally try to help our homeless through social programs instead of people who generally fight those efforts.

 
stlrams said:
I’m guessing some are agruing that our homeless population that are us citizens living in similar conditions but get a lot less media attention and outrage.  
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I don't know; I've pretty much been outraged my entire life about how homeless people live. In any case, wouldn't any decent person be outraged by both situations? I certainly am.

 
stlrams said:
Not sure but you can some ideas on how to fix the problem. 
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Well it’s been discussed beforehand far as more judges to handle the cases.  Pretty much the opposite of this administration wanting to put more limits on legal immigration.

Which has almost zero to do with what was being discussed.

 
stlrams said:
Not sure but you can some ideas on how to fix the problem. 
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We've covered it in this thread. Spend the money: get as many judges down there as you need to process these poor people. Treat them humanely in the meantime. Give them food, shelter, medical care. Don't separate them. Tell them that we welcome refugees here, and that if they're not criminals or bad people they can stay.

 
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