Undocumented Immigrant Thread (1 Viewer)

[stlrams]

Did the US put them in that situation as we did with these immigrants?

Also, that would likely not be a good place for conservatives to shine a light on the differences between the Republicans and Democrats when it comes to the social safety net.

Maybe - our country has turned its back on people with mental illnesses, drug addictions etc forcing many of them to be homeless.  This problem was created by all our politicians.    The worst homeless situation in our country is clearly San Francisco which is controlled by the democrats for last 50 years .  How’s that working for them?..

 

[sho nuff]

Maybe - our country has turned its back on people with mental illnesses, drug addictions etc forcing many of them to be homeless.  This problem was created by all our politicians.    The worst homeless situation in our country is clearly San Francisco which is controlled by the democrats for last 50 years .  How’s that working for them?..

Well see you are going abstract there rather than what our country did directly to separate these people and how they are being treated in these photos.

It would be easier to just say that it has nothing to do with the poor or homeless in this country and admit it was a bad attempt at some comparison.  Because it was.

 

[stlrams]

I don't know; I've pretty much been outraged my entire life about how homeless people live. In any case, wouldn't any decent person be outraged by both situations? I certainly am.

I agree but the focus and outrage is entirely on immigrants.

 

[sho nuff]

I agree but the focus and outrage is entirely on immigrants.

In a thread about the wall and immigration?  Yes

There have been others talking about finding and social issues and tax breaks for the rich that have shown outrage about those thkngsbtoo.

 

[timschochet]

I agree but the focus and outrage is entirely on immigrants.

At the border, sure. Unfortunately homeless and inner city problems are pretty much accepted by society. But I don't see any "either-or" argument: the beauty of America is that, at least potentially, the pie is unlimited.

 

[stlrams]

Well see you are going abstract there rather than what our country did directly to separate these people and how they are being treated in these photos.

It would be easier to just say that it has nothing to do with the poor or homeless in this country and admit it was a bad attempt at some comparison.  Because it was.

What do you propose solving this problem?  I’m comparing it becuase it’s relavent imo.  If we don’t want to provide proper resources to our homeless how would anyone expect to provide resources for an unexpected surge or immigrants?.

 

[sho nuff]

What do you propose solving this problem?  I’m comparing it becuase it’s relavent imo.  If we don’t want to provide proper resources to our homeless how would anyone expect to provide resources for an unexpected surge or immigrants?.

I addressed part of it above and referenced that it’s been discussed before (as far as the problem at the border).

If you want to talk about the homeless...start a thread about it rather than defending a pretty bad deflection from what’s going on at the border.

Amd again...it’s not liberals that don’t want to provide resources for the homeless.  

 

[stlrams]

In a thread about the wall and immigration?  Yes

There have been others talking about finding and social issues and tax breaks for the rich that have shown outrage about those thkngsbtoo.

I was providing an answer to Tim why some people feel indifferent to the pictures of immigrants so I don’t see your point..  my point is valid.

 

[stlrams]

I addressed part of it above and referenced that it’s been discussed before (as far as the problem at the border).

If you want to talk about the homeless...start a thread about it rather than defending a pretty bad deflection from what’s going on at the border.

Amd again...it’s not liberals that don’t want to provide resources for the homeless.  

Bad reflection is your opinion therefore using your words it’s a falsehood.  I never said the liberals didn’t want to provide resources, it’s our society but gave you a liberal bastion of San Francisco to prove that liberals don’t care about the homeless too.  

 

[stlrams]

I addressed part of it above and referenced that it’s been discussed before (as far as the problem at the border).

If you want to talk about the homeless...start a thread about it rather than defending a pretty bad deflection from what’s going on at the border.

Amd again...it’s not liberals that don’t want to provide resources for the homeless.  

If the liberals want to provide the resources for the homeless why can they fix the problem in San Francisco?  They have had at least 50 years to fix the problem but it’s only gotten worst...

 

[sho nuff]

I was providing an answer to Tim why some people feel indifferent to the pictures of immigrants so I don’t see your point..  my point is valid.

It would be valid if anyone was arguing one over the other.  But nobody is...in fact it was only brought up to deflect from what’s going on at the border.

 

[John Blutarsky]

It would be valid if anyone was arguing one over the other.  But nobody is...in fact it was only brought up to deflect from what’s going on at the border.

There was no deflection. A great drinking game would be how often you use the words "facts" and "deflect". 

 

[Mile High]

If the liberals want to provide the resources for the homeless why can they fix the problem in San Francisco?  They have had at least 50 years to fix the problem but it’s only gotten worst...

Maybe the good folks in the middle states could step up and help homeless people in San Francisco.  Bring them to their states and get them jobs and housing. 

 

[John Blutarsky]

Maybe the good folks in the middle states could step up and help homeless people in San Francisco.  Bring them to their states and get them jobs and housing. 

That would be great....what is your plan?

 

[Mile High]

That would be great....what is your plan?

Lots of cities already have programs to pay for bus tickets to send the homeless to places with families.. Go a step farther and set up a database to connect homeless people to places that need workers and provide jobs and housing. 

That only works if the homeless want to go to to those places.  I live in an area that alot of people move to and I know some who have come here with no home or jobs,  but choose to live in their cars instead of going back to where they came from. I have no idea how you can solve that.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Or the homeless you see living under overpasses in most major cities. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/02/americas-tent-cities-for-the-homeless/462450/

http://www.carvermuseum.org/homeless-camps-united-states/

Aren't you guys arguing that this *is* a national emergency, not just a social services management issue?

 

[sho nuff]

Aren't you guys arguing that this *is* a national emergency, not just a social services management issue?

And how nuts would the right go if Democrat in office declares the homeless problem a national emergency?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

And how nuts would the right go if Democrat in office declares the homeless problem a national emergency?

And then there's that. But not just that, if KD & Bluto do feel that way then perhaps they themselves are liberals and don't even know it if that's how they feel about the homeless situation.

 

[Herb]

Lots of cities already have programs to pay for bus tickets to send the homeless to places with families.. Go a step farther and set up a database to connect homeless people to places that need workers and provide jobs and housing. 

That only works if the homeless want to go to to those places.  I live in an area that alot of people move to and I know some who have come here with no home or jobs,  but choose to live in their cars instead of going back to where they came from. I have no idea how you can solve that.

Yup. 

Some people are willing to be homeless to live somewhere they like. I've met a number of people over the years living out of a car in San Diego or Phoenix. Why is it that homelessness is a much bigger problem on the west coast than it is in the upper midwest or northeast? Cuz it's freakin warmer! And the cities are nicer! If you gotta live out of a car or tent, where would you rather do it? Chicago? Or LA? Cleveland or San Fran?

 

[stlrams]

It would be valid if anyone was arguing one over the other.  But nobody is...in fact it was only brought up to deflect from what’s going on at the border.

Completely wrong.  I bought it up to Tim as a potential reason why some people maybe are indifferent to the plight of immigrants.  At this point you jump into the conversation and now you are questioning why ?  I suggest reading the thread first next time.  Thanks.

 

[John Blutarsky]

And how nuts would the right go if Democrat in office declares the homeless problem a national emergency?

It would be a time for the Democrats running those cities to figure what they keep doing wrong. 

 

[stlrams]

Maybe the good folks in the middle states could step up and help homeless people in San Francisco.  Bring them to their states and get them jobs and housing. 

Why?  Calif has the 5th largest economy in the world, major budget surplus, countless millionaires and billionaires yet you want middle America to help? Sounds totally unfair but that’s expected.  Plus it’s a low bar to clear when compared to San Francisco..

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

In a thread about the wall and immigration?  Yes

There have been others talking about finding and social issues and tax breaks for the rich that have shown outrage about those thkngsbtoo.

Your posts read like Trump's twitter 

 

[Mile High]

It would be a time for the Democrats running those cities to figure what they keep doing wrong. 

What are they supposed to do with people just keep coming to live in those cities over staying where they were?  They leave their smaller towns for the job opportunities  and more. Like Tyrion said to Jon Snow when asked why so many chose to live in KL. More jobs and the brothels are better. 

 

[Mile High]

Why?  Calif has the 5th largest economy in the world, major budget surplus, countless millionaires and billionaires yet you want middle America to help? Sounds totally unfair but that’s expected.  Plus it’s a low bar to clear when compared to San Francisco..

Not all of those people are native San Franciscans . They came/ come from all over looking for something better then they had.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Not all of those people are native San Franciscans . They came/ come from all over looking for something better then they had.

Okay.  The worlds 5th largest economy can't support them?

 

[John Blutarsky]

What are they supposed to do with people just keep coming to live in those cities over staying where they were?  They leave their smaller towns for the job opportunities  and more. Like Tyrion said to Jon Snow when asked why so many chose to live in KL. More jobs and the brothels are better. 

Oh, so we can’t blame Democrats for this but it’s ok to blame Trump for the surge at the border and how to handle it. 

 

[Mile High]

Okay.  The worlds 5th largest economy can't support them?

And the worlds greatest economy can't help support them. These are Americans from all over America moving there.

 

[John Blutarsky]

Your posts read like Trump's twitter 

And he doesn’t edit them. It’s hilarious.

 

[stlrams]

Not all of those people are native San Franciscans . They came/ come from all over looking for something better then they had.

I never said they were and agree but calif has more resources then all of middle America yet you want them to handle the homeless.  Why?

 

[John Blutarsky]

And the worlds greatest economy can't help support them. These are Americans from all over America moving there.

And a lot of illegals.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

And the worlds greatest economy can't help support them. These are Americans from all over America moving there.

But we can support wide open borders then?

 

[Mile High]

I never said they were and agree but calif has more resources then all of middle America yet you want them to handle the homeless.  Why?

To get them off the streets.  Get them into homes. Get  them jobs and into being helpful members of there community's. 

 

[John Blutarsky]

To get them off the streets.  Get them into homes. Get  them jobs and into being helpful members of there community's. 

So why aren’t the Democratic controlled cities changing this? You want sanctuary cities with no plans to help them. 

 

[Mile High]

So why aren’t the Democratic controlled cities changing this? You want sanctuary cities with no plans to help them. 

To help American citizens who are homeless? What does being a Sanctuary city have to do with that? 

 

[John Blutarsky]

To help American citizens who are homeless? What does being a Sanctuary city have to do with that? 

This sums it up.

 

[Mile High]

So why aren’t the Democratic controlled cities changing this? You want sanctuary cities with no plans to help them. 

Maybe ask why are so many Americans moving to Democratic controlled cities?

 

[The Commish]

What do you propose solving this problem?  I’m comparing it becuase it’s relavent imo.  If we don’t want to provide proper resources to our homeless how would anyone expect to provide resources for an unexpected surge or immigrants?.

This seems rather simple. add more resources at the border. Lawyers, judges, housing. Funding has been proposed many times for those things but the bipartisan bill was rejected because money for a walk(that wouldn't help at all to fix the things in those pictures) wasn't included. 

As for our citizens educating them and helping them get on their feet teaching them etc. Is necessary but a group in Washington DC makes it their mission to derail those sorts of programs. 

 

[John Blutarsky]

Maybe ask why are so many Americans moving to Democratic controlled cities?

Seriously? Link to this. Why are people leaving California ? And how is that working out for them moving to cities run by Democrats? 

 

[stlrams]

To get them off the streets.  Get them into homes. Get  them jobs and into being helpful members of there community's. 

This doesn’t exist in California?

 

[sho nuff]

Completely wrong.  I bought it up to Tim as a potential reason why some people maybe are indifferent to the plight of immigrants.  At this point you jump into the conversation and now you are questioning why ?  I suggest reading the thread first next time.  Thanks.

You didn’t bring up homelessness.  It was brought up...Tim responded asking a question of people were really doing that...and why.  You answered him sure...but weren't the origin of it in this thread.

In addition, I answered his question...where you then jumped in asking me my plan.

 I suggest you take your own advice and read the thread before claiming I’m wrong.

 

[stlrams]

This seems rather simple. add more resources at the border. Lawyers, judges, housing. Funding has been proposed many times for those things but the bipartisan bill was rejected because money for a walk(that wouldn't help at all to fix the things in those pictures) wasn't included. 

As for our citizens educating them and helping them get on their feet teaching them etc. Is necessary but a group in Washington DC makes it their mission to derail those sorts of programs. 

I think it’s been derail on the state level as well as federal.  

 

[John Blutarsky]

You didn’t bring up homelessness.  It was brought up...Tim responded asking a question of people were really doing that...and why.  You answered him sure...but weren't the origin of it in this thread.

In addition, I answered his question...where you then jumped in asking me my plan.

 I suggest you take your own advice and read the thread before claiming I’m wrong.

To quote yourself.....”deflection “ lmao

 

[timschochet]

I never said they were and agree but calif has more resources then all of middle America yet you want them to handle the homeless.  Why?

I’ve been gone for a few hours but I’d like to address this. 

First, you’re absolutely right that California should solve its own homeless issue. We do have an extremely wealthy economy and we shouldn’t rely on anyone else. Point taken. 

Second from what I’ve seen homelessness, which is never good anywhere, is worst of all in San Francisco and Berkeley. In the city of Berkeley they have their own newspaper, and unofficial political representatives. There are, quite literally, homeless on every major street and corner of Berkeley. They’re everywhere, and they’re the main reason neither of my daughters decided to apply at Cal, even though they both loved the campus. 

But what to do about it? Both San Francisco and Berkeley have attempted tons of programs, spent lots of money. The result has been more homeless, not less, as the programs attract them. Now Rudy Giuliani infamously had an opposite approach: as mayor, he had the police intimidate, scare, and chase homeless away and made them feel unwelcome. Their civil rights were violated, but the result is that ever since Time Square in NYC is a nice safe place to take your family, and Union Square in San Francisco is not. I acknowledge that fact. But morally I can’t go along with what Rudy did and I’m glad that California isn’t doing it. 

So this is a tough issue. I don’t have good answers. For me the situation at the border is a lot easier and I already told you how I’d handle that. 

 

[stlrams]

I’m guessing some are agruing that our homeless population that are us citizens living in similar conditions but get a lot less media attention and outrage.  

You didn’t bring up homelessness.  It was brought up...Tim responded asking a question of people were really doing that...and why.  You answered him sure...but weren't the origin of it in this thread.

In addition, I answered his question...where you then jumped in asking me my plan.

 I suggest you take your own advice and read the thread before claiming I’m wrong.

Here’s my response to Tim bringing up homelessness and you were not involved in conversation.   Not sure what you are talking about or reading..  

 

[The Commish]

I think it’s been derail on the state level as well as federal.  

sure....now what?  We have the solutions, now we vote for those who will implement the solutions and vote OUT those who stand in the way of the social programs.  We do that, we can start to help people out  

 

[stlrams]

I’ve been gone for a few hours but I’d like to address this. 

First, you’re absolutely right that California should solve its own homeless issue. We do have an extremely wealthy economy and we shouldn’t rely on anyone else. Point taken. 

Second from what I’ve seen homelessness, which is never good anywhere, is worst of all in San Francisco and Berkeley. In the city of Berkeley they have their own newspaper, and unofficial political representatives. There are, quite literally, homeless on every major street and corner of Berkeley. They’re everywhere, and they’re the main reason neither of my daughters decided to apply at Cal, even though they both loved the campus. 

But what to do about it? Both San Francisco and Berkeley have attempted tons of programs, spent lots of money. The result has been more homeless, not less, as the programs attract them. Now Rudy Giuliani infamously had an opposite approach: as mayor, he had the police intimidate, scare, and chase homeless away and made them feel unwelcome. Their civil rights were violated, but the result is that ever since Time Square in NYC is a nice safe place to take your family, and Union Square in San Francisco is not. I acknowledge that fact. But morally I can’t go along with what Rudy did and I’m glad that California isn’t doing it. 

So this is a tough issue. I don’t have good answers. For me the situation at the border is a lot easier and I already told you how I’d handle that. 

Great post thanks.  There’s no easy answers in either situation.  Regarding the border , I think it’s very difficult to estimate the need until it’s too late so it really a catch situation right now.  

 

[sho nuff]

Are people really making the argument: no big deal, our homeless have it just as bad! ? Even supposing for a moment this were true, what is the point of such an argument?

Here is the post you responded to...which was in response to people bringing up pictures of homeless people and talking about trailer parks on response to the pictures posted of people detained at the border.  He was questioning why people were trying to compare the two.

Here’s my response to Tim bringing up homelessness and you were not involved in conversation.   Not sure what you are talking about or reading..  

I responded to Tom two posts before you did there...so yes I was involved.  In fact, it was my response to Tim that you chimed in on asking me what my plan was.

So...not sure what problem you are having following a threaded topic that makes it easy to see...but yeah, you were not the one who brought up homeless here.

 

[Mile High]

This doesn’t exist in California?

Of course it does but not enough.  We need to figure out why someone is homeless if a person is homeless because of mental illness/ bad luck/ it's on every American to shoulder the load. If it's because they would rather  live somewhere over somewhere else. I don't know how you solve that problem 

 

[stlrams]

Here is the post you responded to...which was in response to people bringing up pictures of homeless people and talking about trailer parks on response to the pictures posted of people detained at the border.  He was questioning why people were trying to compare the two.

I responded to Tom two posts before you did there...so yes I was involved.  In fact, it was my response to Tim that you chimed in on asking me what my plan was.

So...not sure what problem you are having following a threaded topic that makes it easy to see...but yeah, you were not the one who brought up homeless here.

What ever dude.  You just like to argue and are never wrong.  Got it.