Undocumented Immigrant Thread (2 Viewers)

[Lutherman2112]

The networks denied Obama airtime to talk about immigration reform a few years back.  The reason given then was that the topic was too political.  So, there is some precedent for denying.

Univision carried it live... I think they even postponed their Latin Grammy coverage.

 

[The Football Freak]

No, and I think it sets a very bad precedent if he's able to do it. 

Agreed. So, you think he can, but he should not. I thought that was your position, but I was confused by your last statement. 

I disagree with the wall, and all it entails, but I’m glad to see people on both sides agreeing that this would be a very wrong way to go about this.

 

[Osaurus]

Metaphors are serious business

 

[The Football Freak]

Or better yet, we can create a giant obstacle course like on American Ninja and if they can make it through, then we'll turn them into Navy Seals and they can earn their citizenship that way.

Two men enter, one American leaves.

 

[Sabertooth]

Here's hoping our President lays down the law to Congress.  My guess is that Democrats will be left outraged and dumbfounded.  He may very well announce a state of emergency and order the start of the wall.  

He should also decline Pelosi's invitation to give the State of the Union before Congress and give it from the oval office instead to the American People.  

The president don't want nothing to do with no laws right about now.  Dumbfounded is a great possibility.  Outraged is a certainty.  

I don't care where he gives his state of the Union from to be honest.  I'd like him to give it from a position of honesty and integrity.  Which would be a first for him.  But hey, its a new year.  I think this year is going to be awesome.  

 

[Sinn Fein]

Disagree. Just a few years ago 50% of dems were for a wall. This is all a political dance to deny Trump of his biggest campaign promise .

I think the number of "open boarder" Tim like folk is pretty small 

How does a politician’s stance on the subject affect whether the policy is effective?  A wall is not effective no matter who supports it...

and if its not effective, then its not in the national interest to condemn land to pursue it ...

 

[[scooter]]

Which Dems were for a 38 billion dollar wall?  How many years ago is a "few"?    I agree they Democrats are trying to denounce Trump's second biggest campaign promise.  His first though, was Lock Her Up!  

But yeah, they are denying him his vanity wall, of course.  If the Dems were for it, does that mean the Republicans were against it?  Why have they come around? 

26 dems voted for the smaller scale Fence Act of 2016 

So, you went from "50% of Democrats were for a wall" to "26 Democrats in the Senate voted for a bill that included some fencing along with lots of other things".

I mean, those two sentences aren't even close to being equivalent.

Also, Democrats in the House voted against the act by a margin of 132-64. So, the majority of Democrats in Congress didn't even vote for the Secure Fence Act, let alone support a wall.

 

[E Street Brat]

Agreed. So, you think he can, but he should not. I thought that was your position, but I was confused by your last statement. 

I disagree with the wall, and all it entails, but I’m glad to see people on both sides agreeing that this would be a very wrong way to go about this.

Yeah, I'm no Trump fan, but I also don;t think he's half as bad as most around here seem to think. 

I'm for a physical boarder of some type. But it should be done through congress. If not you risk President Oprah just knocking it down. 

 

[Skoo]

I realize this is common knowledge in these parts, but you know, we should be hearing this sentence a LOT more than we currently are in regards to this whole shutdown business:

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN STEADILY DECREASING FOR TWO DECADES NOW

 

[[scooter]]

I realize this is common knowledge in these parts, but you know, we should be hearing this sentence a LOT more than we currently are in regards to this whole shutdown business:

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN STEADILY DECREASING FOR TWO DECADES NOW

JUST THINK HOW MUCH MORE WE NEEDED THE WALL BACK BEFORE WE REALIZED HOW MUCH WE NEEDED THE WALL!!!

 

[butcher boy]

I realize this is common knowledge in these parts, but you know, we should be hearing this sentence a LOT more than we currently are in regards to this whole shutdown business:

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN STEADILY DECREASING FOR TWO DECADES NOW

your link isnt working

 

[E Street Brat]

How does a politician’s stance on the subject affect whether the policy is effective?  A wall is not effective no matter who supports it...

and if its not effective, then its not in the national interest to condemn land to pursue it ...

I guess I disagree on what the effectiveness would be.  I'm also against taking private land for the barrier. I

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

If he was such a smart business man he would build it out of cheap Chinese steel, and only sell our steel for a premium. 

 

[Skoo]

I realized we've been pretty desensitized already, but the fact the the POTUS is going to go on TV tomorrow and outright lie to the American people in the face of all factual information is still pretty insane.

We all know it, and it's still going to happen and be covered as if it's a perfectly reasonable idea.

 

[Sabertooth]

So, you went from "50% of Democrats were for a wall" to "26 Democrats in the Senate voted for a bill that included some fencing along with lots of other things".

I mean, those two sentences aren't even close to being equivalent.

Also, Democrats in the House voted against the act by a margin of 132-64. So, the majority of Democrats in Congress didn't even vote for the Secure Fence Act, let alone support a wall.

Why not a moat?  I mean, seriously you'd save a ton on the steel with the 25% tariff.   I play D and D once a week and my party struggles a lot more with moats than they do with walls.  Pretty hard to sneak over a moat.  There's splashing probably.  You could put snakes in the bottom of it.  Just have a bunch of the guys getting huge government checks for storm cleanup head over there for a few days.  Done.  

 

[E Street Brat]

So, you went from "50% of Democrats were for a wall" to "26 Democrats in the Senate voted for a bill that included some fencing along with lots of other things".

I mean, those two sentences aren't even close to being equivalent.

Also, Democrats in the House voted against the act by a margin of 132-64. So, the majority of Democrats in Congress didn't even vote for the Secure Fence Act, let alone support a wall.

I pulled the 50% from my ### but was thinking of all democrats, not just those elected to office, like Obama, Clinton. Biden and even Schumer  who all voted for it, 

 

[Don Quixote]

IRS and OMB say that refund checks will go out despite the shutdown.  It’s not clear to me how that’s legal, but nothing matters anymore.  

 

[Sabertooth]

I pulled the 50% from my ### but was thinking of all democrats, not just those elected to office, like Obama, Clinton. Biden and even Schumer  who all voted for it, 

I'm a Democrat.  I never supported or even knew about it.  It's almost like it wasn't such a big deal back then because, well it isn't much of a big deal.  When did Obama and Biden vote for it? 

Do Presidents vote for bills? 

 

[Sabertooth]

IRS and OMB say that refund checks will go out despite the shutdown.  It’s not clear to me how that’s legal, but nothing matters anymore.  

Mexico is going to pay for them. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The last emergency was declared September 14, 2001.  If those 33% really believe we're in the same kind of atmosphere, they should be shot into the sun. 

While being stung by bees?

 

[squistion]

Yamiche Alcindor‏@Yamiche 14m14 minutes ago

NEW:

Vice President Pence and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen just wrapped an hour long briefing with reporters. The bottom line is that the president is NOT budging from his demand for $5.7 billion a wall and the WH is accusing Dems of refusing to negotiate.

Vice President Pence said: This isn’t about base. This is about the American people. This is about the flow of illegal immigration, drugs, and the president's determination to address that issue with action and resources.

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1082371459375337474

 

[belljr]

he just wants the longest shutdown in history

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

are there any recent poll numbers on this whole wall / shutdown fiasco? 

I suspect someone isn't listening to the majority here ...

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't see how you step back from this.  Much like the blocking of Merric Garland, the Republicans have gone too far and no there is no going back.  They Democrats can't let Trump win, and he can't lose face.  Stalemate.  

I'll be pissed if the Democrats give him anything to be honest.  Nothing for the wall.  Nothing at all.  We don't negotiate with terrorists.  

 

[BobbyLayne]

are there any recent poll numbers on this whole wall / shutdown fiasco? 

I suspect someone isn't listening to the majority here ...

Around 55% oppose it

Believe the latest was around 85% registered Dems and 34% registered Rs

 

[[scooter]]

I pulled the 50% from my ### but was thinking of all democrats, not just those elected to office, like Obama, Clinton. Biden and even Schumer  who all voted for it, 

I'm a Democrat.  I never supported or even knew about it.  It's almost like it wasn't such a big deal back then because, well it isn't much of a big deal.  When did Obama and Biden vote for it? 

They voted for the Secure Fence Act in 2006. It authorized $1.4 billion to repair existing fencing and to erect 350 miles of new pedestrian fencing plus 300 miles of vehicle barriers. The bill was passed during a period when illegal immigration was significantly higher than it is right now.

 

[Snorkelson]

So the new season of programming starts tomorrow night, which networks likely already receiving ad money for the season premiere slots. I have a really hard time seeing them grant the president airtime short of real breaking news like declaration of war or killing of osama bin laden etc. I understand he’s the president and all, but if they air one of his campaign type speeches touting lies and home grown statistics instead of blackish I won’t be real happy. 

 

[E Street Brat]

I'm a Democrat.  I never supported or even knew about it.  It's almost like it wasn't such a big deal back then because, well it isn't much of a big deal.  When did Obama and Biden vote for it? 

Do Presidents vote for bills? 

In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283–138 on September 14, 2006.[2] On September 29, 2006, the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80–19.

Link

 

[joffer]

Technically I thought they were for Border Security.... not a wall   

I could be wrong

oh those are the same now

 

[sho nuff]

are there any recent poll numbers on this whole wall / shutdown fiasco? 

I suspect someone isn't listening to the majority here ...

Not listening to th majority, facts about drugs or terrorism or anything else.

Just flat out propaganda BS.

 

[msommer]

I can only imagine how convincing Trump’s address will be. If it’s written by Stephen Miller, you can bet it will be an ugly fear speech. 

Who else would he get to write it? Of course it will be Miller.

 

[msommer]

While being stung by bees?

Nah, we need the bees for pollenation

 

[[scooter]]

I'm a Democrat.  I never supported or even knew about it.  It's almost like it wasn't such a big deal back then because, well it isn't much of a big deal.  When did Obama and Biden vote for it? 

Do Presidents vote for bills? 

In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283–138 on September 14, 2006.[2] On September 29, 2006, the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80–19.

Link

As I pointed out before, Democrats in Congress opposed this act by a margin of 149-90.

And as I pointed out before, this act provided for fencing, not a wall.

So, the idea that Democrats supported a wall at anything close to a 50% rate is not based on the facts.

 

[JuniorNB]

I don't see how you step back from this.  Much like the blocking of Merric Garland, the Republicans have gone too far and no there is no going back.  They Democrats can't let Trump win, and he can't lose face.  Stalemate.  

I'll be pissed if the Democrats give him anything to be honest.  Nothing for the wall.  Nothing at all.  We don't negotiate with terrorists.  

DACA.  Dems offered his 25 billion last year in exchange for a path to citizenship for the Dreamers. I'd give then 5.7 now and let Trump think he won.  Until he sees on the news how he got played.

 

[timschochet]

Why not a moat?  I mean, seriously you'd save a ton on the steel with the 25% tariff.   I play D and D once a week and my party struggles a lot more with moats than they do with walls.  Pretty hard to sneak over a moat.  There's splashing probably.  You could put snakes in the bottom of it.  Just have a bunch of the guys getting huge government checks for storm cleanup head over there for a few days.  Done.  

How about sharks with laser beams on their heads?

 

[butcher boy]

Make it a wall of beehives.  Appease both sides.  We get our wall and the liberal environmentalists will support it because it saves the bees.  Added benefit of people staying away because no one's going to climb over a wall of bees.  

 

[The Commish]

I've never understood the argument that a physical barrier (where it makes sense) wouldn't be effective

I'm not sure I've seen this argument, ever.  The reported areas where he wants to use this money are areas where it wouldn't be effective.

 

[Banger]

he just wants the longest shutdown in history

BIGGEST AND BEST SHUTDOWN EVER!!!! MAGA!!!

 

[That one guy]

I got it!  Here me out...

We put up a bunch of signs along the boarder that read “Now Entering Guatemala”, but in Spanish obviously.  Make them Dodge Caravans think they went the wrong direction!!

So simple and crazy it just might work

 

[squistion]

are there any recent poll numbers on this whole wall / shutdown fiasco? 

I suspect someone isn't listening to the majority here ...

Nate Silver‏ @NateSilver538 3h3 hours ago

Trump approval rating:

Before shutdown: 42.2% approve / 52.7% disapprove (-10.5% net)

Current: 41.2% approve / 53.5% disapprove (-12.3% net)

Note that there have been very few traditional, high-quality live caller polls during this period. So it's possible that Trump's approval rating has shifted more than this — our tracker will be pretty conservative until it gets more of that data.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

 

[Jackstraw]

Yamiche Alcindor‏@Yamiche 14m14 minutes ago

NEW:

Vice President Pence and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen just wrapped an hour long briefing with reporters. The bottom line is that the president is NOT budging from his demand for $5.7 billion a wall and the WH is accusing Dems of refusing to negotiate.

Vice President Pence said: This isn’t about base. This is about the American people. This is about the flow of illegal immigration, drugs, and the president's determination to address that issue with action and resources.

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1082371459375337474

So as long as you FEEL REALLY STRONGLY about it. You can cripple government and/or subvert the democratic process completely.  

 

[Jackstraw]

So the new season of programming starts tomorrow night, which networks likely already receiving ad money for the season premiere slots. I have a really hard time seeing them grant the president airtime short of real breaking news like declaration of war or killing of osama bin laden etc. I understand he’s the president and all, but if they air one of his campaign type speeches touting lies and home grown statistics instead of blackish I won’t be real happy. 

Run on a 15 minute delay and fact check it pop up video style in real time. 

 

[Henry Ford]

So as long as you FEEL REALLY STRONGLY about it. You can cripple government and/or subvert the democratic process completely.  

What if I strenuously object?

 

[Sand]

Seriously how is this in the public's interest? 5 billion comes no way close to completing a wall or barrier across the southern border. So what does this accomplish?

It certainly allows human capital to be much more efficient in securing the border.  Most of the really bad stuff (drugs) come across at ports of entry.  A fence is a lever arm to help with the other issues down there.

 

[[scooter]]

So the new season of programming starts tomorrow night, which networks likely already receiving ad money for the season premiere slots. I have a really hard time seeing them grant the president airtime short of real breaking news like declaration of war or killing of osama bin laden etc. I understand he’s the president and all, but if they air one of his campaign type speeches touting lies and home grown statistics instead of blackish I won’t be real happy. 

Run on a 15 minute delay and fact check it pop up video style in real time. 

The really egregious lies could be bleeped out on the basis of being too indecent for general viewing.

 

[Banger]

Nate Silver‏ @NateSilver538 3h3 hours ago

Trump approval rating:

Before shutdown: 42.2% approve / 52.7% disapprove (-10.5% net)

Current: 41.2% approve / 53.5% disapprove (-12.3% net)

Note that there have been very few traditional, high-quality live caller polls during this period. So it's possible that Trump's approval rating has shifted more than this — our tracker will be pretty conservative until it gets more of that data.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

I still can't believe at this point that his approval rating would change...if over the past 2 years you thought he was great I find it hard to believe that THIS would be the issue to push you over the edge...

 

[Sheriff Bart]

The dems need to negotiate the way repubs do. Agree to the wall then when they take back power (hopefully) in 2020, defund the wall and bulldoze whatever small part of Trump’s wall has been built unless repubs agree to universal health care. 

 

[apalmer]

I got it!  Here me out...

We put up a bunch of signs along the boarder that read “Now Entering Guatemala”, but in Spanish obviously.  Make them Dodge Caravans think they went the wrong direction!!

So simple and crazy it just might work

Well, it would probably work if it was our President trying to sneak into the country, but I don't see anyone else falling for it.

 

[belljr]

Gotta say people that are currently working here are getting nervous.   

There is some clause after 30 days about reduction in force etc 

We all feel were going to get hosed spmehow

 

[apalmer]

The really egregious lies could be bleeped out on the basis of being too indecent for general viewing.

"Ethel, something's wrong with this durn tv! I'm trying to listen to President Trump and all I can hear is constant beeping!  Dag Nab it, try moving the rabbit ears for me!"