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US Men's National Team (26 Viewers)

Sebowski said:
Which is why you don't hide him at LB to begin with. Put him where he can make a difference. Because you know, he's a difference maker. 
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Good teams don't have to play guys out of position all over the pitch.  Good teams are two deep over most of the team.  It is what it is.

 
Jones is not going to stay on JK's Christmas list with these complaints about the game plan.   Although his complaints do explain why Fab looked so solid defensively against Cuadrado.

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“The game plan was the whole time that we double Cuadrado on the left side, and that was, for me, the main thing,” Jones said. “So I have to give a lot of energy to work back and help. . . . So I came away from my own game.”

Essentially, the US was so concerned about Cuadrado -- who played in 28 matches, starting 16, during Juventus’ Serie A championship-winning campaign last season -- that they abandoned the scheme that made them successful in the run up to this tournament.

“I think that we have to be more focused on us, play with that what we have,” Jones said. “We have three midfielders where I feel like if we have a good game plan, we can put a lot of pressure on other teams. Today was more focused on Colombia and on the left side to help Fabi, so we lost one guy in midfield. So it was tougher to play, yeah."

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I just don't see it with the USA team.  I don't see the ability to score goals against good teams.  Fortunately, I thought the defense played pretty well for the most part.  It's not as if Rodriguez and Cuadrado dominated, they were held in check relatively well and Colombia had no open play goals.

But on the other side, Wood and Zardes looked woefully out-matched.  I just don't think the USA can compete with the best teams in the world with such a lack of firepower, and I don't see how Klinnsman or any other manager would change that.

All in all, not the end of the world.  I felt Costa Rica was basically the "must win" game of this group. 

 
Random Nat thoughts...

There is no question in my mind that Bedoya and Wood need to be out and Pulisic and Nagbe need to be in. 

As for the back line, I think you have to stick with Cameron.

Also, Brooks had a pretty solid game...probably the only player that did.

Huge step back for Wood, just not good at all. 

Zardes had a good game for him.  No class in his game, but he had a great motor and provided consistent pressure.

Bradley has been spotty now for a few years...but we simply don't have anybody that can take his role so he continue to be a mainstay.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Jones is not going to stay on JK's Christmas list with these complaints about the game plan.   Although his complaints do explain why Fab looked so solid defensively against Cuadrado.

==============

“The game plan was the whole time that we double Cuadrado on the left side, and that was, for me, the main thing,” Jones said. “So I have to give a lot of energy to work back and help. . . . So I came away from my own game.”

Essentially, the US was so concerned about Cuadrado -- who played in 28 matches, starting 16, during Juventus’ Serie A championship-winning campaign last season -- that they abandoned the scheme that made them successful in the run up to this tournament.

“I think that we have to be more focused on us, play with that what we have,” Jones said. “We have three midfielders where I feel like if we have a good game plan, we can put a lot of pressure on other teams. Today was more focused on Colombia and on the left side to help Fabi, so we lost one guy in midfield. So it was tougher to play, yeah."

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You could tell Jones was irritated when coming off the pitch...and what he's saying here makes a ton of sense. 

It's amazing a country our size can't find a serviceable LB.

 
1. Knew nothing about Paraguay before watching them yesterday, but I think if that game is indicative of how they play, we're in for trouble.

2. Also got to see some of Haiti's game yesterday.  Don't know why but I like them even if they're not going to advance.

 
With the US being at home and CR being down not only their two best keepers but also a starting defender, I am really going to be bummed if we can't get 3 points on Tuesday.

 
NewlyRetired said:
With the US being at home and CR being down not only their two best keepers but also a starting defender, I am really going to be bummed if we can't get 3 points on Tuesday.
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Yeah. Look losing to the #3 team in the world 2-0 on a corner and penalty kick while showing some decent offense wasn't bad, not great but also not unexpected. It's games like Tuesday where we should get 3 points and not look back.

Why do I have the feeling that we will be trailing 1-0 within 10 minutes though.

 
I still have a hard time believing that JK will get canned after surviving the debacle last year but so many people (media and fans alike) seem to be saying this game could determine his future, that it is going to add to this games importance in the grand scheme of things.

I was saying in the other thread how remarkable the difference was watching Ecuador in a game that mattered vs the tepid display in the friendly against the US.

JK must really treat results in friendlies more importantly than other coaches.  We rarely see such a large gap in quality and intensity between our friendlies and games that matter.

 
super busy this weekend, caught the game yesterday morning. thoughts....

First off, I was expecting Francisco the Man to stroll in, strum a ballad and have James float off into the ether in a cloud of those moths. Marquez aside... game thoughts...

Really liked the overall team shape of that 4-3-3. Colombia was always going to break the defense down- which they did, but not as much as I expected- the team held well throughout the field, IMO.

If you had told me that Colombia's goals would have come from Cam misplaying an offsides line and then completely losing his man on the ensuing corner, and Bradley giving the ball away incredibly cheaply in the defensive third- I would have chalked that more up to dumb luck than something wrong with the overall team play.

Offensively, I thought that formation should have given the US good opportunities- they played the ball around nicely until the final third and Deuce created a few. But overall, I wanted more from Bedoya and Jones to breakdown the opposition; a dribble here or a more telling, aggressive ball forward there would have made the difference, IMO. they played well but too cautious going forward- too many balls back to the defenders.

I was impressed that the team shape, movement and relatively quick passing did a nice job dictating the game against a world class team, but the lack of class on the ball consistently showed from the US, killing good possession and any attacks not with the ball at Deuce's feet.

Zardoz played fantastically well, IMO- incredible runs showing for the ball and into space, but of course Zardozed way too many of his first touches rendering all of that good work moot. Woods was similar, with better composure on the ball, but often too isolated- still waiting for him to combine better. Bradley belongs in the hole- had an up and down game controlling things but then giving a surprising amount of balls away- seems like the CO players started to read him adn pick off passes.Jones seemed a step off, but always love his fight.

I haven't read the rest of the comments here, but I'm going to guess there was a lot of hair-rending and gnashing of teeth over this result. I had the opposite feeling- thought the team looked really good aside from my comments above- gave me hope about this group going forward, regardless of their outcome in the copa. Can't really control their (lack of) control, but would like to see attacking guys take more chances- especially against teams over-committing on the high press. and viva the 4-3-3.

 
bagger said:
Yeah. Look losing to the #3 team in the world 2-0 on a corner and penalty kick while showing some decent offense wasn't bad, not great but also not unexpected. It's games like Tuesday where we should get 3 points and not look back.

Why do I have the feeling that we will be trailing 1-0 within 10 minutes though.
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Because, all too often, that's what the USMNT does in games that matter.

 
btw- how ugly was that Par v CR game.... was the poster-child of everything 'murican sports fans hate about soccer: diving, embellishment, diving, embellishment, diving, embellishment, no scoring.

I wonder if CR will keep that formation vs the US. if so, the US should dominate, but given the offensive touches from COL, struggle to score or create opportunities. It will come down to set pieces and keeping a grip on the CR counter.

Paraguay was bettter than I expected, but played like a less good Colombia. If US can keep their shape in that 4-3-3 the way they did against COL, I think they should be able to cope with them. It's going to come down to carving out chances to score and fininshing those chances.

 
oh- I"m sure it was discussed ad-nauseum, but was there a consensus on the Yedlin hand ball?

IMO, that one was a real 50/50. don't fault the ref for calling it- Yedlin's hand was up and away from his body directly stopping the ball from going to its intended target. but he had turned his back and the hand wasn't exactly extended far out... somewhat tight to his body. bleh. I've seen them called both ways- sucks that it went against the US here, but not a complete shock.

 
Steve Tasker said:
TripItUp said:
Random Nat thoughts...

Huge step back for Wood, just not good at all.
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I'm trying not to read too much into one poor game.  He was clearly out of position all day.
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he's had a few games like this. 

But I'm not too worried about it either- it's a process to get our best team out there and playing together. he's still figuring out where the best fit is- especially when deuce is there too.

 
El Floppo said:
btw- how ugly was that Par v CR game.... was the poster-child of everything 'murican sports fans hate about soccer: diving, embellishment, diving, embellishment, diving, embellishment, no scoring.

I wonder if CR will keep that formation vs the US. if so, the US should dominate, but given the offensive touches from COL, struggle to score or create opportunities. It will come down to set pieces and keeping a grip on the CR counter.

Paraguay was bettter than I expected, but played like a less good Colombia. If US can keep their shape in that 4-3-3 the way they did against COL, I think they should be able to cope with them. It's going to come down to carving out chances to score and fininshing those chances.
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That game was awful.  I made it through about 30 minutes.  I watched more of the Haiti game than CR.

Key to converting an American sports fan is for that fan to watch a LOT of soccer and not focus on the USMNT.  

For instance, if I was trying to convert a soccer fan, I'd tell them to watch Germany, France, England, Spain, Argentina, Brazil and of course the US.  Try to watch as many games as possible and learn the players.

You gotta get someone to commit to investing themselves in watching 10-15 matches at least.  

Just like American football, some individual games just stink, which is the worry when a potential fan says "alright I'll give soccer a try and watch this ONE game".

 
Steve Tasker said:
I'm trying not to read too much into one poor game.  He was clearly out of position all day.
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I think that is one of the problems with the 4-3-3 with our current players. 

While the formation helps us defensively (especially if they sacrifice one of the midfielders to help the wing backs like Jones suggested happened), I think it hurts us offensively, at least with the roster JK has to choose from.

* Dempsey is not a target striker, so he naturally drifts back to receive the ball because any ball played long to him tends to be wasted.  It is an odd choice for the front point man but he does his best to make it work.

* The 4-3-3 also seems to be slightly stifling the wing backs from getting forward but some of this is likely due as much to tactics and it is to formation.

* Starting both Wood and Zardes in positions they are uncomfortable in makes things look a bit strange at times up top against better teams.

Personally I would say screw it with Dempsey in the middle.  Dempsey natural tendency is to roam, so let him do that and get him out of the middle.

I would try something like this up top to maybe get some players more comfortable (from left wing  to right wing)

...Dempsey.........Wood............Pulisic

Let Dempsey roam around which might open up the left channel for Fab to get forward.  Wood is not a prototypical target man but I think he is more comfortable in the middle of the field rather that attacking from a wide position.  Pulisic would naturally fit into the RW spot more than Zardes.

 
shader said:
That game was awful.  I made it through about 30 minutes.  I watched more of the Haiti game than CR.

Key to converting an American sports fan is for that fan to watch a LOT of soccer and not focus on the USMNT.  

For instance, if I was trying to convert a soccer fan, I'd tell them to watch Germany, France, England, Spain, Argentina, Brazil and of course the US.  Try to watch as many games as possible and learn the players.

You gotta get someone to commit to investing themselves in watching 10-15 matches at least.  

Just like American football, some individual games just stink, which is the worry when a potential fan says "alright I'll give soccer a try and watch this ONE game".
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I used to think this way but I am over it now.

We have more than enough Americans who watch soccer.  No matter how much the older press tries to pretend the sport is not big here the numbers do not lie. 

MLS attendance continues to grow.  Ratings for Liga MX and EPL continue to grow.  Ratings for Champions League and international tournaments are strong.

Soccer is hampered because there are so many events that cannibalize each other in the ratings that you really need to look at them as a whole to realize how strong the sport is.

We no longer need to beg people to convert.  There are 4 distinct groups IMO

1) Around WC time, new people will try it and like it and want more and get into the club games

2) Around WC time, new people will try it and like it but don't really have the time to get into the massive club game but will still enjoy watching the international country games and tournaments as they are easier to digest on a busy sports schedule

3) Around WC time, new people will try and decide they don't  like it.  No issues here, there is plenty not to like in soccer as there is in every sport

4) Around WC time, trolls in the media who have an agenda will try and make the sport look poor any way they can.  These are best to be ignored as they will soon be dying off.

 
IMO, dempsey starts to roam when he's starved of service. I thought he got ok, not great service against Colombia and roamed less.

it seemed to me that there weren't enough second runs from him to help zardoz and woods.

 
El Floppo said:
IMO, dempsey starts to roam when he's starved of service. I thought he got ok, not great service against Colombia and roamed less.

it seemed to me that there weren't enough second runs from him to help zardoz and woods.
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Dempsey is an odd player at this point in his career but some of it could be who he is partnered with.

Watching him and Martins in Seattle last year was at time like watching a dance partnership.  They always looked to each other and the ball kept moving.

Dempsey on the national team does not have that dance partner and at times, the ball just seems glued to his feet while he looks around.  It slows the US attack way down but ironically, he also picks up a ton of fouls by doing this sometimes giving the US scoring chances on set pieces.

 
El Floppo said:
he's had a few games like this. 

But I'm not too worried about it either- it's a process to get our best team out there and playing together. he's still figuring out where the best fit is- especially when deuce is there too.
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I mean, it's Bobby Wood.  He's been a German second division player (yes I know he just made the jump to the Bundesliga)....I'm not sure anyone expects him to set the world on fire here.

 
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El Floppo said:
Really liked the overall team shape of that 4-3-3. Colombia was always going to break the defense down- which they did, but not as much as I expected- the team held well throughout the field, IMO.

If you had told me that Colombia's goals would have come from Cam misplaying an offsides line and then completely losing his man on the ensuing corner, and Bradley giving the ball away incredibly cheaply in the defensive third- I would have chalked that more up to dumb luck than something wrong with the overall team play.

Offensively, I thought that formation should have given the US good opportunities- they played the ball around nicely until the final third and Deuce created a few. But overall, I wanted more from Bedoya and Jones to breakdown the opposition; a dribble here or a more telling, aggressive ball forward there would have made the difference, IMO. they played well but too cautious going forward- too many balls back to the defenders.

I was impressed that the team shape, movement and relatively quick passing did a nice job dictating the game against a world class team, but the lack of class on the ball consistently showed from the US, killing good possession and any attacks not with the ball at Deuce's feet.
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I wasn't willing to put my Pollyanna hat on in public, but this is almost exactly what I thought after the game as well.

If they play like that minus the especially egregious unforced errors (which they were punished harshly for) they'll be fine.  Especially if there's a bit more spark from the two forward mids.

 
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The USA-Colombia game averaged 1,536,000 viewers, making it the second most-watched men's national team game on Fox Sports 1. Only the USA-Mexico game for the Concacaf Cup in October 2015 drew more viewers on FS1 (1,561,000).

By comparison, the USA-Honduras game on FS1 to open the 2015 Gold Cup averaged 986,000 viewers.

National viewing figures for USA-Colombia on Univision, UniMas and UDN were not yet available. Univision did report that the USA-Colombia was the most-watched network program during its time frame in eight key markets, including New York and Los Angeles.

2016 U.S. Men's English-Language Viewers:
AVERAGE GAME (NETWORK)
1,536,000 USA-Colombia (FS1, June 2016)
954,000 USA-Guatemala (ESPN2, March 2016)
531,000 USA-Iceland (ESPN2, January 2016)
454,000 USA-Bolivia (FS1, May 2016)
429,000 USA-Ecuador (ESPN2, May 2016)
304,000 Puerto Rico-USA (FS1, May 2016)
294,000 USA-Canada (FS1, February 2016)
162,000 Guatemala-USA (BeIN Sports, March 2016)

 
really glad I don't listen to these yabos calling the game. 

but worse, is the coverage on-screen. they don't know when to zoom or when to pull back and they don't know when to show replays or what to show. it's like the directors were given a list of a few main players and just decided "we'll show them whenever possible, regardless of what's happening on the field... oh@! wow! look- it's 'the wave'... show the #### out of that!".

 
El Floppo said:
oh- I"m sure it was discussed ad-nauseum, but was there a consensus on the Yedlin hand ball?

IMO, that one was a real 50/50. don't fault the ref for calling it- Yedlin's hand was up and away from his body directly stopping the ball from going to its intended target. but he had turned his back and the hand wasn't exactly extended far out... somewhat tight to his body. bleh. I've seen them called both ways- sucks that it went against the US here, but not a complete shock.
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Initially I was livid but a few bourbons and frustration with the match had something to do with it. After replays I still didn't think it was a HB but realized it was certainly close enough to call.  If it had been his left arm extended wide then it would have been a no doubter. However it was his right arm, crossed against his body that caught a piece of the ball. It certainly wasn't intentional and IMO wasn't an "unnatural position" so yeah...tough call IMO (but again...I can see the refs POV).

 
Buzzbait said:
Initially I was livid but a few bourbons and frustration with the match had something to do with it. After replays I still didn't think it was a HB but realized it was certainly close enough to call.  If it had been his left arm extended wide then it would have been a no doubter. However it was his right arm, crossed against his body that caught a piece of the ball. It certainly wasn't intentional and IMO wasn't an "unnatural position" so yeah...tough call IMO (but again...I can see the refs POV).
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glad it was (eta- oops!) NOT the determining goal in the game. aside from the breakaway due to the US pressing hard to get anything being down 2-0, I don't think it affected the outcome at all. ... well... goal differential aside.

 
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El Floppo said:
really glad I don't listen to these yabos calling the game. 

but worse, is the coverage on-screen. they don't know when to zoom or when to pull back and they don't know when to show replays or what to show. it's like the directors were given a list of a few main players and just decided "we'll show them whenever possible, regardless of what's happening on the field... oh@! wow! look- it's 'the wave'... show the #### out of that!".
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I have no idea whether Fox really is doing the feeds or whether its like the World Cup where everyone gets the FIFA feed.  I have no problem with Strong on the call.  I think he's probably better than Darke (the best of ESPN's big tourney crew is Jon Champion IMO).  Maybe Strong can fake an English accent or something.  Freidel, for whatever reason, has been a disaster as a color guy since moving to Fox.  And that's after I've heard him be excellent with Martin Tyler.  I don't know if he's concentrating too hard on suppressing his accent or if he's being given typical storyline "notes" but he's just not natural in the role. 

I think JP and Cobi Jones have done a decent job for Fox. 

 
:shrug:

I don't listen.

as much a product of watching the games late after everybody's gone to sleep as it is not wanting to hear them say stupid ####. JP has improved a lot over the last few decades, but even the sound of voice just reminds me of what he nimrod he was about the game in the old days. Schoen is the absolute worst. who has brian dunseth? one of my favorite color/commentary guys out there.

 
wdcrob said:
If they play like that minus the especially egregious unforced errors (which they were punished harshly for) they'll be fine.
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They pretty much always have the egregious unforced errors...

 
and sometimes I do love espn...

I was in Milan for this, watching on a large screen in the piazza del duomo with several thousand other people- it wasn't "live" per se, but it felt live surrounded by all those people... and we all went ape-#### over this goal. one of the best I've ever seen.

eta: going to leave it here. too many threads right now.

 
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Nagbe seems like the only guy we have who can hold onto the ball - Bradley used to be that guy, but he is too erratic with his touch and passes right now.

Plus, Jones seems a step or two slow.  If he plays, probably better suited to the holding role, with instruction to get the ball to Nagbe/Bradley.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Nagbe seems like the only guy we have who can hold onto the ball - Bradley used to be that guy, but he is too erratic with his touch and passes right now.

Plus, Jones seems a step or two slow.  If he plays, probably better suited to the holding role, with instruction to get the ball to Nagbe/Bradley.
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BOOM?

 
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