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US Men's National Team (32 Viewers)

Ned said:
I was surprised nobody else griped about this more when discussing potential lineups.
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We must really be in a bind at LFB to pull Fab out of the midfield. I'll think the same thing if we have to use Cam at RCB instead of DM, where I really like his game on the national team.

Man, I hope we're competitive tonight. With footy popularity still so tenuous in this country a bad outcome in Copa could be a terrible setback.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Klinsy dropping some bombs on some young players in this WSJ Q and A.
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He makes some good points but he and USSoccer must take some of the blame for these kids failing. Especially when he says things like:

We drive an amazing amount of young talent in all different ways and then once they turn toward the professional level, from 17 or 18 until 22 or 23, that is where we kind of lose a lot of quality kids, because they don’t find their right footing.
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Ned said:
I was surprised nobody else griped about this more when discussing potential lineups.
Click to expand...
I think many people were concerned when the roster was built and we did not have a single club playing left back on the entire roster.

Chandler got hurt and was replaced with Castillo so we do now have one so JK does have an option but I don't think Castillo played at all in the friendlies.

I do agree that if we had a decent option on the roster at LB I would prefer to see Fab elsewhere, but it is worth noting that if he did move, it would not be in the midfield of this 4-3-3, he would likely move up front where Zardes is, which would be a nice upgrade.

 
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JaxBill said:
He makes some good points but he and USSoccer must take some of the blame for these kids failing. Especially when he says things like:
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We have a ton of kids in Europe at this age level.  Many of our top players from the U17's and U20's have signed deals. 

I hope this group can break the cycle.  Pulisic obviously is a good start but he may very well be an outlier.   Watching to see if the likes  of Hadji Wright or Josh Perez can break through will be more telling.

I kind of understand that kids are going to fail at a high rate in the big Euro leagues as the competition is so high, but what also concerns me is that so few young kids are pushing their way into MLS teams here you would think they would have a better chance.

 
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This is so awesome.  A World Cup for displaced peoples/unrecognized countries:

The framework for the World Football Cup #Abkhazia2016 is set and approved by the CONIFA board and the Abkhazian authorities!

Dates:

The tournament will start on the 28.05.2016 with an opening ceremony in the stadium “Dinamo” in Sukhum at 7 pm. All teams will attend this event and join a flag ceremony in the packed main stadium of the country.

The first group stage matches will be played on the 29.05.2016. The final match will be played the following Sunday, the 05.06.2016.

After the final match a closing banquett with all teams, CONIFA staff, selected guests and media, will close the event!

Teams:

The following 12 teams will play the World Football Cup #Abkhazia2016 to determine the World Champion outside FIFA*:

*Above links lead to the information about each team on CONIFA’s main homepage www.conifa.org

Venue:

All matches will be played in the “Dinamo stadium” in the Abkhazian capital of Sukhum.

Live coverage:

In cooperation, we will produce live pictures of all matches of the World Football Cup #Abkhazia2016 and the signal will be sold to interested TV channels all over the world by our TV rights partner SpringMedia and be streamed online via PPV through our streaming partner EverSport. The operator isn´t determined yet, more information will follow.
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Also, Fab + LM/LW options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fab + LB options.  It lets us get more good players on the field.  Same thing with Cameron at CB IMO.

 
roadkill1292 said:
We must really be in a bind at LFB to pull Fab out of the midfield. I'll think the same thing if we have to use Cam at RCB instead of DM, where I really like his game on the national team.

Man, I hope we're competitive tonight. With footy popularity still so tenuous in this country a bad outcome in Copa could be a terrible setback.
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I think too much is made of Fab playing fullback.  Lots of international clubs have to find ways to get their best XI on the field in a way that makes sense.  Howedes plays left back for Germany and he's a center back.  Same with Rojo for Argentina.  Alli is going to play CM for England with different responsibilities than the pressing CAM he was for Tottenham.  That's part of international football.  You can't get your sporting director on the line and say "find me a world class left back."

It's true that Fab played very well in midfield this year, but when he moved to Gladbach everybody thought that he was being misused by not being played at right back. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think too much is made of Fab playing fullback.  Lots of international clubs have to find ways to get their best XI on the field in a way that makes sense.  Howedes plays left back for Germany and he's a center back.  Same with Rojo for Argentina.  Alli is going to play CM for England with different responsibilities than the pressing CAM he was for Tottenham.  That's part of international football.  You can't get your sporting director on the line and say "find me a world class left back."

It's true that Fab played very well in midfield this year, but when he moved to Gladbach everybody thought that he was being misused by not being played at right back. 
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very true, it's what Barca has done with Javier Mascherano 

 
This is VERY long but might be one of the better articles I have read on the topic.  It is well worth a read even if it takes a couple of bathroom breaks.

Christian Pulisic, his rise, and the truth it speaks about American soccer in 2016

The author provided one fun side anecdote that he did not put in the story.  Bob Lilly, who is the Rochester Rhinos head coach, is a family friend of the Pulisics. He was visiting the family one day and Mark (Christians dad) asked him to come out side to see his son.  Lilly could not believe that he was watching the kid dribble, shoot and pass and as Bob a player and coach could not figure out if Christian was a right footed player or a left footed player.  And Christian was 3 years old at the time.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Ned said:
I was surprised nobody else griped about this more when discussing potential lineups.
Click to expand...
I think many people were concerned when the roster was built and we did not have a single club playing left back on the entire roster.

Chandler got hurt and was replaced with Castillo so we do now have one so JK does have an option but I don't think Castillo played at all in the friendlies.

I do agree that if we had a decent option on the roster at LB I would prefer to see Fab elsewhere, but it is worth noting that if he did move, it would not be in the midfield of this 4-3-3, he would likely move up front where Zardes is, which would be a nice upgrade.

Edited 12 minutes ago by NewlyRetired
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exactly this.

Fab is our best LMF option- and like all of you, I'd prefer to see him play where he plays (and plays well) for his club. 

But unfortunately, he's also our best LB option, given this group. I think the drop off from him to some of these other guys is less in the MF than it is at LB... so that's the thinking IMO.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Watch JK troll us all and start Orozco at LB tonight :)   It would be so JK of him lol.
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                       Guzan

Yedlin      Birnbaum    Orozco      Besler

                      Beckerman

            Moreno   Jones    Kitchen

                           Bradley

                          Wondo

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
                       Guzan

Yedlin      Birnbaum    Orozco      Besler

                      Beckerman

            Moreno   Jones    Kitchen

                           Bradley

                          Wondo
Click to expand...
Gotta keep COL on their toes.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
                       Guzan

Yedlin      Birnbaum    Orozco      Besler

                      Beckerman

            Moreno   Jones    Kitchen

                           Bradley

                          Wondo
Click to expand...
 Moreno would be a good troll considering I don't think he is on the roster (unless he got added very late)


 
Very well, then.

                  Wondo

Wondo  Wondo Wondo  Wondo

                    Wondo

           Wondo         Wondo

                     Wondo

                Howard     Yedlin

 
JK: "How can we explain to people in U.S. that soccer is a player-driven game and the decisions are made by the player? Because once the game is rolling, you have barely any influence on it. You have you three subs, a little talk at halftime and you can scream as loud as you want on the sideline, but they can barely hear you. So our challenge is always to tell them you have to take the game into your own hands, you have to drive it."

==================================

Not that I disagree with him but it seems like a clear followup question would have been

"why is US Soccer paying you millions of dollars if you have such little influence on each game?"

 
I don't think a win against Colombia would be a shocking result.  They have good players, but they haven't been great since the World Cup.  Maybe James will be James, or maybe he'll be too busy pulling Madrid splinters out of his a** to dominate.  In any case, the FIFA ranking of #4 is a joke. 

 
Pretty excited for tonight. I've only had one drink since my tear drowning Europa final. Time to get back on track with a proper Manhattan :banned:

 
NewlyRetired said:
JK: "How can we explain to people in U.S. that soccer is a player-driven game and the decisions are made by the player? Because once the game is rolling, you have barely any influence on it. You have you three subs, a little talk at halftime and you can scream as loud as you want on the sideline, but they can barely hear you. So our challenge is always to tell them you have to take the game into your own hands, you have to drive it."

==================================

Not that I disagree with him but it seems like a clear followup question would have been

"why is US Soccer paying you millions of dollars if you have such little influence on each game?"
Click to expand...
I don't think that's hard to answer.  At the very least, Klinsmann has been a more visible manager than Bradley or Arena was.  The profile of the team has risen, even if that means there's been more criticism.  That's ultimately good for US Soccer.  Of course, the coach can have a huge impact during a game based on what he or she did before the game.  From selection, to preparation, to tactics.  Obviously, Klinsmann has rightly faced criticism at times for all of those things. 

 
JK really hammered on the lack of our 18-22 years making the push through to the big time.

And while I hate to use this as a crutch, we have been a bit snake bitten with injuries.  Pelosi, Gyau, Boyd, Gatt, Rubin and others have all had some significant injury issues that have derailed progrss.

 
NewlyRetired said:
JK: "How can we explain to people in U.S. that soccer is a player-driven game and the decisions are made by the player? Because once the game is rolling, you have barely any influence on it. You have you three subs, a little talk at halftime and you can scream as loud as you want on the sideline, but they can barely hear you. So our challenge is always to tell them you have to take the game into your own hands, you have to drive it."

==================================

Not that I disagree with him but it seems like a clear followup question would have been

"why is US Soccer paying you millions of dollars if you have such little influence on each game?"
Click to expand...
I found that part interesting vis a vis the psychology of US kids and their relationship to US sports. specific plays being called in football, basketball and even baseball to a degree (although let's leave baseball with bowling and darts) infuse them with a innate need to "get the play" from the sidelines- so to look elsewhere for what to do rather than "just play". While I've always understood the distinction, I hadn't thought about it in terms of the psychology before.... find it interesting.

 
NewlyRetired said:
JK: "How can we explain to people in U.S. that soccer is a player-driven game and the decisions are made by the player? Because once the game is rolling, you have barely any influence on it. You have you three subs, a little talk at halftime and you can scream as loud as you want on the sideline, but they can barely hear you. So our challenge is always to tell them you have to take the game into your own hands, you have to drive it."

==================================

Not that I disagree with him but it seems like a clear followup question would have been

"why is US Soccer paying you millions of dollars if you have such little influence on each game?"
Click to expand...
I read that Chelsea was paying Mou $12 million a year and I texted a friend that "no coach in the U.S. is getting that kind of money." I know the developmental responsibilities are entirely different within the respective sports but that doesn't mean that I have a clue about evaluating managers. 

Coaches having minimal impact on the game flow itself, though, is one of the things I really like about footy. It's not the only sport that could do this and be better, imho. (Yes, I'm looking at you, college basketball)

 
roadkill1292 said:
I read that Chelsea was paying Mou $12 million a year and I texted a friend that "no coach in the U.S. is getting that kind of money." I know the developmental responsibilities are entirely different within the respective sports but that doesn't mean that I have a clue about evaluating managers. 

Coaches having minimal impact on the game flow itself, though, is one of the things I really like about footy. It's not the only sport that could do this and be better, imho. (Yes, I'm looking at you, college basketball)
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Club coaches have much more control than National Team coaches.  Club coaches have players every day.  National team coaches get them for two weeks or a month at a time. 

 
The Z Machine said:
I'll be sitting with the AO (or just behind them) with my brother for the USMNT / PAR group match in Philly.  Father's Day present!
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You dog!!!!  I've been sooooooo close to buying tickets for me and the kids to that game, but I'd never live it down if I pulled my kids out of their cousin's bday party that night.  (my sister)

:hot:  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Club coaches have much more control than National Team coaches.  Club coaches have players every day.  National team coaches get them for two weeks or a month at a time. 
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My point was more about how much Mourinho was making in relation to Coach K or Saban or Belichick, who also have wide ranging responsibilities for a program. But it is indeed important to note that JK also has wide ranging responsibilities for U.S. development, far beyond his management of the national team. 

As much as I enjoy the international matches, there's no denying a lack of cohesiveness and team identity in comparison to the best clubs.

 
El Floppo said:
I found that part interesting vis a vis the psychology of US kids and their relationship to US sports. specific plays being called in football, basketball and even baseball to a degree (although let's leave baseball with bowling and darts) infuse them with a innate need to "get the play" from the sidelines- so to look elsewhere for what to do rather than "just play". While I've always understood the distinction, I hadn't thought about it in terms of the psychology before.... find it interesting.
Click to expand...
We have a tendency in this country to try to control the progress of our talented kids in a lot of areas.  I hate generalizations about "Millenials" but I did notice that in law school, even extremely talented and bright students wanted to know the exact path to acing the class.  "Tell me exactly what needs to be on my exam answer."  And I see the same thing with young associates at firms.  You ask them to dive in and take ownership of part of a case, and you get 1000 questions back.  We don't have development philosophy, in any area, of "let's put kids in challenging conditions and see if they can figure it out."  And I think Klinsmann and the author of the Pulisic piece are both hinting that this is kind of the essence of a "better-than-good" soccer player. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
We have a tendency in this country to try to control the progress of our talented kids in a lot of areas.  I hate generalizations about "Millenials" but I did notice that in law school, even extremely talented and bright students wanted to know the exact path to acing the class.  "Tell me exactly what needs to be on my exam answer."  And I see the same thing with young associates at firms.  You ask them to dive in and take ownership of part of a case, and you get 1000 questions back.  We don't have development philosophy, in any area, of "let's put kids in challenging conditions and see if they can figure it out."  And I think Klinsmann and the author of the Pulisic piece are both hinting that this is kind of the essence of a "better-than-good" soccer player. 
Click to expand...
good stuff.

I wonder though- Millenials.. yeah. but I think this predates them, and encompasses the way american kids have approached sports in general even in our day.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
We have a tendency in this country to try to control the progress of our talented kids in a lot of areas.  I hate generalizations about "Millenials" but I did notice that in law school, even extremely talented and bright students wanted to know the exact path to acing the class.  "Tell me exactly what needs to be on my exam answer."  And I see the same thing with young associates at firms.  You ask them to dive in and take ownership of part of a case, and you get 1000 questions back.  We don't have development philosophy, in any area, of "let's put kids in challenging conditions and see if they can figure it out."  And I think Klinsmann and the author of the Pulisic piece are both hinting that this is kind of the essence of a "better-than-good" soccer player. 
Click to expand...
First, like this observation.

All of our major sports are geared towards a military-like cohesivesness wherein the coach becomes the most important spoke in the wheel. If everybody will just do exactly what he says, goes general opinion, then the team will have its best chance of winning. I'm not necessarily indicting the people who coach; it's more a result of the kinds of sports which have become the most popular here. "Cult of the coach" is a real thing in the U.S. and I hate it.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
We don't have development philosophy, in any area, of "let's put kids in challenging conditions and see if they can figure it out."  And I think Klinsmann and the author of the Pulisic piece are both hinting that this is kind of the essence of a "better-than-good" soccer player. 
Click to expand...
I think it is a fair statement, and yet it is a scary one too given the general make up of your typical 17-18 year old American male.

Pulisic is going to be the poster child for this but even in arguably our most successful endevor ever in the "throw into the deep end and seen if he can swim" philosophy, he was inches away from leaving Germany and likely going to college at which point who knows what happens to him.

Pulisic was extrodinarily lucky that his parents were willing to live apart to support him.  I really believe if his dad was not there with him in Dortmund, he would have returned home.  Very few American kids are going to have this luxury.

 
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roadkill1292 said:
First, like this observation.

All of our major sports are geared towards a military-like cohesivesness wherein the coach becomes the most important spoke in the wheel. If everybody will just do exactly what he says, goes general opinion, then the team will have its best chance of winning. I'm not necessarily indicting the people who coach; it's more a result of the kinds of sports which have become the most popular here. "Cult of the coach" is a real thing in the U.S. and I hate it.
Click to expand...
It's particularly pronounced in youth sports where we have parents insisting on winning at the U11 level.  This isn't just a soccer thing.  I've heard Stan Van Gundy just rail on youth basketball coaches for playing zone defenses with 10 year olds. 

I really do want to try to get into some youth coaching in the next few years.  But I'm not sure how parents will handle me telling them, "I don't care if it loses us the game, everybody is going to be put in the position to get on the ball and nobody gets to hide."  Otherwise, I won't be doing my job. 

 
it's not like coaches don't dictate things in soccer. a mou team is certainly different than an arsene team which is different than a sir al team... etc, etc. tactics, player-selection, formation, method of inspiration, etc, all vary team to team and have profound affect on results and style of play.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Ok, this is a littl

I think it is a fair statement, and yet it is a scary one too given the general make up of your typical 17-18 year old American male.

Pulisic is going to be the poster child for this but even in arguably our most successful endevor ever in the "throw into the deep end and seen if he can swim" philosophy, he was inches away from leaving Germany and likely going to college at which point who knows what happens to him.

Pulisic was extrodinarily lucky that his parents were willing to live apart to support him.  I really believe if his dad was not there with him in Dortmund, he would have returned home.  Very few American kids are going to have this luxury.
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As a father of two young boys that are very passionate about soccer.... I loved seeing that story about his dad. :thumbup: :thumbup:

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I really do want to try to get into some youth coaching in the next few years.  But I'm not sure how parents will handle me telling them, "I don't care if it loses us the game, everybody is going to be put in the position to get on the ball and nobody gets to hide."  Otherwise, I won't be doing my job. 
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:wub:  

 
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