Venting on my part... (1 Viewer)

[bryhamm]

If I had a quarter for every parent massively upset about their kid's playing time in high school I'd be uber rich. Best thing he could do is toughen up and battle that kid in the post. If he's better, it will be obvious and he'll get playing time.

Moving one high school over in WI will not end his interaction with racism. He will come across it several times, no matter what school he goes to. It's how we reacts to it that's important. Does he speak up and stand up for what's right?

In the big picture I'm not a fan of running away from problems. If it were my son I'd want him to tough it out and try to turn both situations around. But if it's not possible, and he's miserable with grades slipping, then transferring makes sense.

He has 0 issue with the playing time. He did the right thing by approaching the coach at the start if the year and made sure to work harder in practice. He has earned more playing time.

His position is that:

1. This kid is not drastically better than him. The other kid starts, but usually has 2 fouls really quickly because he leaves his feet, is out of position offensively a lot and usually gets called 4-5 times for 3sec violations.

2. When the kid gets shut down is when he starts getting dirty and throwing elbows. My son said this happened tonight because he was doing what he was supposed to and shutting him down and making him bite on fake shots as usual. He and I are pissed tonight because of safety concerns of elbows flying and not doing anything as his nose is bleeding and his ear is ringing.

3. The varsity coach telling him he is just there to make this kid better. He knows they don't want him there or at least he is not in their plans going forward. That is incredibly crappy to say to a kid, and the opposite of whoever works hardest gets the minutes and the starts. He feels he was told day 1 specifically this is not the case.

I get it, I could very well be like every other pissed off whiny sport parent who thinks his kid is getting a raw deal. The fact that he was told that day 1, is still battling for minutes and taking this **** to finish his season tells me he is battling plenty and tougher than I expected or I am. 5-6 kids have quit this year, but he was not one.

I think I'm missing something. If the bolded is true, and you say the 2 rarely play together, then wouldn't your son be gaining PT because the other kid is in foul trouble and can't stay in the game? What am I missing?

 

[KarmaPolice]

If I had a quarter for every parent massively upset about their kid's playing time in high school I'd be uber rich. Best thing he could do is toughen up and battle that kid in the post. If he's better, it will be obvious and he'll get playing time.

Moving one high school over in WI will not end his interaction with racism. He will come across it several times, no matter what school he goes to. It's how we reacts to it that's important. Does he speak up and stand up for what's right?

In the big picture I'm not a fan of running away from problems. If it were my son I'd want him to tough it out and try to turn both situations around. But if it's not possible, and he's miserable with grades slipping, then transferring makes sense.

He has 0 issue with the playing time. He did the right thing by approaching the coach at the start if the year and made sure to work harder in practice. He has earned more playing time.

His position is that:

1. This kid is not drastically better than him. The other kid starts, but usually has 2 fouls really quickly because he leaves his feet, is out of position offensively a lot and usually gets called 4-5 times for 3sec violations.

2. When the kid gets shut down is when he starts getting dirty and throwing elbows. My son said this happened tonight because he was doing what he was supposed to and shutting him down and making him bite on fake shots as usual. He and I are pissed tonight because of safety concerns of elbows flying and not doing anything as his nose is bleeding and his ear is ringing.

3. The varsity coach telling him he is just there to make this kid better. He knows they don't want him there or at least he is not in their plans going forward. That is incredibly crappy to say to a kid, and the opposite of whoever works hardest gets the minutes and the starts. He feels he was told day 1 specifically this is not the case.

I get it, I could very well be like every other pissed off whiny sport parent who thinks his kid is getting a raw deal. The fact that he was told that day 1, is still battling for minutes and taking this **** to finish his season tells me he is battling plenty and tougher than I expected or I am. 5-6 kids have quit this year, but he was not one.

I think I'm missing something. If the bolded is true, and you say the 2 rarely play together, then wouldn't your son be gaining PT because the other kid is in foul trouble and can't stay in the game? What am I missing?

I also said he has gained pt through working in practice and his last game he did get a bit more because the other kid left his feet too many times. His PT on JV is not an issue, as I said said in the first part of that quote.

 

[wlwiles]

WOW. Reading the OP almost exactly described me in high school. Been having lots of flashbacks sitting here reading the comments and pondering your situation OP. I 100% believe that your kid's feelings are valid with regards to his spot on the team. I remember very vividly some of those feelings. I'll share my story a bit.

Small catholic school, I played basketball, I was 6'5" and tied for tallest kid in the school with a guy I'll call Cliff. Cliff was same height as me, had probably 30 lbs on me, and was by all accounts the Golden Child of the school. QB for the football team, the star forward in basketball, and starting shortstop and #1 pitcher for the baseball team. One of those naturally athletic guys who was always assumed to be the best player on whatever team he was on. But had the most fragile ego on the field/court, and all it took was one error or mistake or one trash talk comment and you'd be in his head and he couldn't recover. The way he'd recover in basketball was to, yep, throw elbows and up the physical game. Since he was always the biggest guy on the court, he'd get away with a lot too. Cliff had more talent than me at this game, no doubt. But I quickly learned how to get in his head. Block one shot in practice and he'd see red, and then he was just a bull in a china shop after that.

Day 1 of basketball my sophomore year, I show up to practice. Cliff is currently at football practice as that sport hadn't ended yet. Coach tells me my goal on this team is to rebound, and to push Cliff to be the best he could be because he had the talent to take us deep in the playoffs and to even play in college. I said "but coach I'm the 5 (center) and he's the 4 (power forward), we can both do well and work off each other and..." and coach said something to the effect of "I don't need you to score, I need you to rebound. If you can get me 5 or more offensive rebounds a game that's more scoring opportunities for us, and Cliff is our best scorer". Just like your kid, I was stunned. Then mad. Then hurt. Then wanted to quit. Why the hell would I want to keep playing three more years of basketball for a coach who only saw me as a training piece for Star Boy? Coach wasn't telling our PG to only pass to Cliff....he wasn't telling our guards to not take the 3, to dish inside to Cliff instead...

I remember coach ending one practice early because of an incident. I'd been up in Cliff's face most of the practice. Blocked one of his shots, and he was muscling me, elbowing some. We had an inbounds play under the goal, and I was throwing the ball in. Cliff standing/jumping/waving arms in front of me defending the inbounds. I faked a throw to the side and chucked the ball right over Cliff's head to our point guard deep. The problem was that Cliff didn't go for the fake and jumped up on the real pass and I nailed him directly in the face with it. Next thing I know he charges me and clocks me with a right hook, and I stumble backwards into the wall. I'd been taking his crap for the last hour so when he hit me I went for a bear hug and wrestled him down and went into full OH IT'S ON NOW mode. Coaches blowing whistles and everyone separated us. Cliff never said a word about that ever again, never apologized or acknowledged that it happened.

OP I wish I could tell you I had some magic answer for your situation, or something I did in my situation that made it all better. The only thing I did was talk to the coaches. A lot. I told them how I knew how to rile Cliff up, and that he'd react poorly. Then I'd do it, and give the coaches a "see I told you" look. Some opponent would do it in a game, get in his head and he'd start trying to jockey and elbow and I'd have to signal the coaches. Reminded them of the incident above in practice. Eventually they got it. Cliff and I maybe could have been friends, but we never were because we were never truly teammates first. And for a long time I always blamed the coaches for pitting us against each other, or pitting me against him at least. Not like Cliff was ever told to go make me better...

I'll be praying for you and your kid @KarmaPolice to find some way to work through this situation. I guess my only advice is to talk to the coaches, tell them everything, tell them how you feel, how your kid feels, and show them that you want to be a good teammate and all that. I just loved to play and so I put my head down and worked at it. Some days I'd find it fun to get in Cliff's head and get him pissed off and then shoot the "some things never change" look to the coaches. Some days I'd just avoid him and worry about me instead. It's a tough situation for sure. If he truly wants to transfer out then give it some serious consideration.

 

[Godsbrother]

In the big picture I'm not a fan of running away from problems. If it were my son I'd want him to tough it out and try to turn both situations around. But if it's not possible, and he's miserable with grades slipping, then transferring makes sense.

Same for me. My son was 2nd in batting on the JV team and had batted > .300 on his at-bats with the varsity team as as sophomore. He was started off well his junior year but during the season he had a serious illness and lost about 25-30 pounds.

A new manager and coaching staff pretty much ignored him the next season because they weren't going to be in contention and presumably wanted to focus on the younger players. Still my son showed up for every practice and workout, worked hard and didn't complain. He finished with only a handful of at-bats that season and one appearance as the starting pitcher in his final game.

Not the same situation but I liked the way my son approached it -- and I kept my nose out of it.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

He's had a rough semester because he had appendix surgery in Mid-October around his birthday. Ended up being an ordeal - it ruptured, they were late getting antibiotics, he developed abscesses, he was in the hospital for almost 2 weeks.

I don't want to let this pass without comment. Post-surgical depression is a very real thing. That, combined with school stress and puberty, might be having its own effect. You might want to talk to his doctor about this.

 

[Hawks64]

He's had a rough semester because he had appendix surgery in Mid-October around his birthday. Ended up being an ordeal - it ruptured, they were late getting antibiotics, he developed abscesses, he was in the hospital for almost 2 weeks.

I don't want to let this pass without comment. Post-surgical depression is a very real thing. That, combined with school stress and puberty, might be having its own effect. You might want to talk to his doctor about this.

It definitely seems like he would benefit from a few sessions with a counselor/therapist, at least IMO.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Something about HS basketball, man.

It's the sport with the most participation and the smallest lineup. Everybody's been playing since they were little, thinks they're really good, wants to be on varsity... but there's only 5 starters. And there's enough ambiguity about what makes a good player that anyone halfway decent can convince themselves they deserve to be one of those 5.

6'6" and lithe? Get him into swimming. Even if he's not a great swimmer, a coach will find a way to get that length to be competitive at the HS level. Plus, most swimmers are smart and cling together socially, so he'll have instant friends.

Definitely recommend sports like swimming, cross country, etc. For one, they're pure meritocracy. You're as good as the clock says you are, end of discussion. And even if that isn't very good, you've got your own time to compete against and improve on. Plus there's so much positivity. If you finish the 500 free two minutes after everyone else, that's two minutes that everyone in the pool is cheering you on. Way more rewarding than sitting on the bench hoping the kid who keeps elbowing you in the face will foul out.

 

[KarmaPolice]

WOW. Reading the OP almost exactly described me in high school. Been having lots of flashbacks sitting here reading the comments and pondering your situation OP. I 100% believe that your kid's feelings are valid with regards to his spot on the team. I remember very vividly some of those feelings. I'll share my story a bit.

Small catholic school, I played basketball, I was 6'5" and tied for tallest kid in the school with a guy I'll call Cliff. Cliff was same height as me, had probably 30 lbs on me, and was by all accounts the Golden Child of the school. QB for the football team, the star forward in basketball, and starting shortstop and #1 pitcher for the baseball team. One of those naturally athletic guys who was always assumed to be the best player on whatever team he was on. But had the most fragile ego on the field/court, and all it took was one error or mistake or one trash talk comment and you'd be in his head and he couldn't recover. The way he'd recover in basketball was to, yep, throw elbows and up the physical game. Since he was always the biggest guy on the court, he'd get away with a lot too. Cliff had more talent than me at this game, no doubt. But I quickly learned how to get in his head. Block one shot in practice and he'd see red, and then he was just a bull in a china shop after that.

Day 1 of basketball my sophomore year, I show up to practice. Cliff is currently at football practice as that sport hadn't ended yet. Coach tells me my goal on this team is to rebound, and to push Cliff to be the best he could be because he had the talent to take us deep in the playoffs and to even play in college. I said "but coach I'm the 5 (center) and he's the 4 (power forward), we can both do well and work off each other and..." and coach said something to the effect of "I don't need you to score, I need you to rebound. If you can get me 5 or more offensive rebounds a game that's more scoring opportunities for us, and Cliff is our best scorer". Just like your kid, I was stunned. Then mad. Then hurt. Then wanted to quit. Why the hell would I want to keep playing three more years of basketball for a coach who only saw me as a training piece for Star Boy? Coach wasn't telling our PG to only pass to Cliff....he wasn't telling our guards to not take the 3, to dish inside to Cliff instead...

I remember coach ending one practice early because of an incident. I'd been up in Cliff's face most of the practice. Blocked one of his shots, and he was muscling me, elbowing some. We had an inbounds play under the goal, and I was throwing the ball in. Cliff standing/jumping/waving arms in front of me defending the inbounds. I faked a throw to the side and chucked the ball right over Cliff's head to our point guard deep. The problem was that Cliff didn't go for the fake and jumped up on the real pass and I nailed him directly in the face with it. Next thing I know he charges me and clocks me with a right hook, and I stumble backwards into the wall. I'd been taking his crap for the last hour so when he hit me I went for a bear hug and wrestled him down and went into full OH IT'S ON NOW mode. Coaches blowing whistles and everyone separated us. Cliff never said a word about that ever again, never apologized or acknowledged that it happened.

OP I wish I could tell you I had some magic answer for your situation, or something I did in my situation that made it all better. The only thing I did was talk to the coaches. A lot. I told them how I knew how to rile Cliff up, and that he'd react poorly. Then I'd do it, and give the coaches a "see I told you" look. Some opponent would do it in a game, get in his head and he'd start trying to jockey and elbow and I'd have to signal the coaches. Reminded them of the incident above in practice. Eventually they got it. Cliff and I maybe could have been friends, but we never were because we were never truly teammates first. And for a long time I always blamed the coaches for pitting us against each other, or pitting me against him at least. Not like Cliff was ever told to go make me better...

I'll be praying for you and your kid @KarmaPolice to find some way to work through this situation. I guess my only advice is to talk to the coaches, tell them everything, tell them how you feel, how your kid feels, and show them that you want to be a good teammate and all that. I just loved to play and so I put my head down and worked at it. Some days I'd find it fun to get in Cliff's head and get him pissed off and then shoot the "some things never change" look to the coaches. Some days I'd just avoid him and worry about me instead. It's a tough situation for sure. If he truly wants to transfer out then give it some serious consideration.

Thanks. I guess one thing I am thankful for is I guess I avoided the crap coaches. So my experiences with sports was mostly positive, team first experience. It's one of the reasons I kept pushing him in sports, but we've encountered nothing like that with him since about 3rd grade when he was in soccer.

That said, what also clicked more talking to my wife and reading the first part of what Spartans wrote above is that I wasn't a good team player, so I gravitated to the "other" sports - tennis, golf, swimming. Way different dynamic, which I have always underestimated it seems in my thoughts about his coaching and experiences.

At the end of the day, I think we just need to realize we are dealing with a program with subpar coaching - no emphasis on fundamentals, no emphasis on team, etc..

 

[TLEF316]

Something about HS basketball, man.

It's the sport with the most participation and the smallest lineup. Everybody's been playing since they were little, thinks they're really good, wants to be on varsity... but there's only 5 starters. And there's enough ambiguity about what makes a good player that anyone halfway decent can convince themselves they deserve to be one of those 5.

6'6" and lithe? Get him into swimming. Even if he's not a great swimmer, a coach will find a way to get that length to be competitive at the HS level. Plus, most swimmers are smart and cling together socially, so he'll have instant friends.

Definitely recommend sports like swimming, cross country, etc. For one, they're pure meritocracy. You're as good as the clock says you are, end of discussion. And even if that isn't very good, you've got your own time to compete against and improve on. Plus there's so much positivity. If you finish the 500 free two minutes after everyone else, that's two minutes that everyone in the pool is cheering you on. Way more rewarding than sitting on the bench hoping the kid who keeps elbowing you in the face will foul out.

Yeah, totally agree on the issues regarding basketball at this level. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and with only 5 guys playing.....the coach holds all the power.

I was a captain on my HS basketball team (suburban NJ. Big HS but we weren't anything special) for my leadership and work ethic....but the coach just didn't like my game (and i had a 6'6 guy in front of me. I was a shooting guard). So I barely got any burn. Thought I was getting screwed but stuck it out to the end. I don't regret it, but it hurt for sure. Being a captain and getting DNP's some nights was pretty damn embarrassing.

Looking back on it 20 years later, I'm sure I wasn't as good as I thought I was. But I still say with a straight face that I should have played more. The coach thought different. He was the boss.

But playing time is a whole different issue then "I'm just gonna use you to develop this other guy" and letting that other guy use your kid as a punching bag any time he gets frustrated in practice. That's BS and a safety issue.

 

[Todem]

How much does your son love the game, love the school, love his coach and teammates.

Tons of factors.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I'm beating an old dead horse here for me but I'll say again I think we'd be so much better off in this country if sports were completely de-coupled from schools top to bottom. Its a terrible shame whenever we hear a story about a kid - high school or college - who's athletic troubles end up affecting his education, or vice versa. If he were at a club, like he'd be in any other country in the world, this would not be a problem. Yes, club sports have politics, favorites, crappy coaches and the like, but its easy to change clubs and everyone understands when a kid moves to a different club for one reason or another. It sucks when this bleeds over to affect a kid's academics which is so much more important for 99.9% of all student athletes. Thankfully, most sports are finally trending hard toward the club model in our country but there will never be a clean break in our lifetimes, especially not for big college programs.

GL to your son Karma. The good news is he will get through this, time heals, and in the end it will almost certainly be a positive. We all face issues similar to this throughout our lives and having this experience and learning from it will benefit him later.

 

[General Malaise]

Something about HS basketball, man.

It's the sport with the most participation and the smallest lineup. Everybody's been playing since they were little, thinks they're really good, wants to be on varsity... but there's only 5 starters. And there's enough ambiguity about what makes a good player that anyone halfway decent can convince themselves they deserve to be one of those 5.

6'6" and lithe? Get him into swimming. Even if he's not a great swimmer, a coach will find a way to get that length to be competitive at the HS level. Plus, most swimmers are smart and cling together socially, so he'll have instant friends.

Definitely recommend sports like swimming, cross country, etc. For one, they're pure meritocracy. You're as good as the clock says you are, end of discussion. And even if that isn't very good, you've got your own time to compete against and improve on. Plus there's so much positivity. If you finish the 500 free two minutes after everyone else, that's two minutes that everyone in the pool is cheering you on. Way more rewarding than sitting on the bench hoping the kid who keeps elbowing you in the face will foul out.

Excellent post and perspective. Things may have changed, but you select three events each meet - maybe relays bump that total up - but there's a lot of down time at meets where you just hang with your teammates and socialize. I made and retained a lot of friends through swimming in HS and even though we were all a little quirky/nerdy it was a lot of fun. A LOT of hard work, too, but SR is right - you're competing against yourself and there are a lot of life lessons to learn through that.

Also, the opportunities that came to me through swimming included lifeguarding and later teaching swim lessons privately at a country club. I made enough money each summer that I didn't have to work in college unless I wanted extra scratch (and I'd lifeguard at the college pool too in the spring - NOT. A. BAD. JOB!!!!).

 

[Todem]

I sent this to @KarmaPolice personally but figured I would post it here. Every situation is different.....but here was my own experience with a difficult high school sports situation and I am not going to go into every hardship and detail my own son faced.....but here is the gist of it.

Hey Karma….so my son is a senior in high school now and plays baseball. He was recruited to play in college and starts up in Raleigh NC at William Peace University this upcoming Fall of 2023.

The reason I mention this is my son plays for the 3 time National Champion Stoneman Douglas Eagles (2016, 2021, 2022).

The program is rigorous and extremely competitive. It is run like a D1 Power 5 baseball program at the high school level. My son endured a ton of crap and without going into details he could have transferred almost anywhere inside a 15 mile vicinity and started all 4 years anywhere else. But he never wanted to leave because of his competitive nature and the fact this program is so prestigious. Obviously it paid off but I believe in my heart he would have been recruited regardless of his high school pedigree, as summer showcase baseball is where all college recruiting is done anyway. The amount of politics and mental abuse he endured…..dude…you have no idea. If I could do it all again I would have pulled him as a Freshman and made the executive decision for his overall well being. Now don’t get me wrong….on the positive side he got incredible training, practiced and played with guys who have been drafted into the MLB and 75% are D1 recruits and most importantly has a 4.2 GPA and has a good group of friends. I pay heavy property taxes to live in Parkland FL for him to attend an A rated public school. He has been in public school K-12.

So the most important things in making a transfer decision is:

How good is this program your son is taking all this crap for, how good is this coaching staff and are they simply boneheads at the high school level (which is 90% of high school coaches).

Is your son really serious about basketball and honestly looking at him can you see him being a student athlete at the next level.

Having fun is definitely important, and playing time is always ideal. But it’s not everything.

Hope everything works out.

 

[Van Dyman]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

 

[PIK95]

If I had a quarter for every parent massively upset about their kid's playing time in high school I'd be uber rich. Best thing he could do is toughen up and battle that kid in the post. If he's better, it will be obvious and he'll get playing time.

Moving one high school over in WI will not end his interaction with racism. He will come across it several times, no matter what school he goes to. It's how we reacts to it that's important. Does he speak up and stand up for what's right?

In the big picture I'm not a fan of running away from problems. If it were my son I'd want him to tough it out and try to turn both situations around. But if it's not possible, and he's miserable with grades slipping, then transferring makes sense.

My son was by far the best player on the high school teams, was the leader, and most fit. The coach didn't like us for whatever reason. Could have (probably was) been racism, I'm not totally sure. Anyway my son passed up some major opportunities to play his senior year and lead his pals, and now we totally regret he did. So yeah, some situations you just can't work your way out of.

 

[GordonGekko]

He has 0 issue with the playing time. He did the right thing by approaching the coach at the start if the year and made sure to work harder in practice. He has earned more playing time.

His position is that:

1. This kid is not drastically better than him. The other kid starts, but usually has 2 fouls really quickly because he leaves his feet, is out of position offensively a lot and usually gets called 4-5 times for 3sec violations.

2. When the kid gets shut down is when he starts getting dirty and throwing elbows. My son said this happened tonight because he was doing what he was supposed to and shutting him down and making him bite on fake shots as usual. He and I are pissed tonight because of safety concerns of elbows flying and not doing anything as his nose is bleeding and his ear is ringing.

3. The varsity coach telling him he is just there to make this kid better. He knows they don't want him there or at least he is not in their plans going forward. That is incredibly crappy to say to a kid, and the opposite of whoever works hardest gets the minutes and the starts. He feels he was told day 1 specifically this is not the case.

I get it, I could very well be like every other pissed off whiny sport parent who thinks his kid is getting a raw deal. The fact that he was told that day 1, is still battling for minutes and taking this **** to finish his season tells me he is battling plenty and tougher than I expected or I am. 5-6 kids have quit this year, but he was not one.

Trying to lobby for more minutes based on throwing another kid under the bus is not a display of leadership.

Fatherhood, by default, is a leadership position. You don't help young men by teaching them to commiserate. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on right here. You say the kid has no issues with his playing time, but it's an issue with you, it's clearly an issue with him and it's turned into an entirely family issue.

Do you know how you actually "earn" more playing time? You don't earn it. You "take" it. If all you get is 2 minutes a game, then light everyone up for 2 minutes. Make those two minutes into something cinematic. You aren't fighting to be the starter, you are fighting for three minutes next time. Then four, then five. Guys who carve out a real role in anything get 2 minutes somewhere, then keep producing to the point where it's impossible to play anyone else.

In practical terms, your son might need additional coaching. Find higher level coaches and see if they'll work with your son. Find former pros in your area, if any are there, to work with your son. If working hard in practice isn't enough, then work hard out of practice.

You want this coach to "give" your son something. Wrong attitude. Teach your son to go and "take" it if he wants it bad enough. And if he wants it bad enough, his actions will reflect that.

Maybe this coach is an idiot. Maybe he's not. Either way, he's not giving your son anything and that doesn't seem to be likely to change soon. Your son's only choice is to go out and take it.

Make a list of things you can do to help your son in practical terms

- Get together a phone list and see whom you can call to get your son more coaching
- Take film of your son playing and go over it with a more seasoned coach or someone OUTSIDE the existing system currently at stake, and go over the kid's weaknesses.
- Effort how to address those weaknesses
- Find the resources or personnel to address those weaknesses
- Set up the logistics to make all that happen. If it means money or more commute or cutting a deal or finding a former pro, etc, etc.

Effort the problem. Don't teach the kid how to commiserate. Even if you are being treated unfairly and robbed blind, don't complain, just out work everyone else. Leave no stone unturned.

In most cases like this, the kid doesn't want it bad enough.

In most cases like this, the parents don't care as much as they say they do ( otherwise their actions would be relentless in nature to work the current problem)

Talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. Some people think everything is going to be solved by picking a new victim and starting another conversation. That the only way up is to drag someone else down first and demand a comparison.

People talk like you do because it makes them feel better, in a warped kind of way, but it doesn't actually make the situation better. Efforting the problem in practical terms with direct action is how you make things better. If you aren't out with your son each night until it's gets dark, setting him up for free throws and pushing him through mobility drills, then what are you even talking about here?

 

[GordonGekko]

I also have plenty of kids approach me "what can I do to get more pt". The answer 99% of the time is "beat the kid in front of you" if all things are equal, talent wins out. Hard work is great, but high school jobs now depend on wins. Make sense?

Diane Court : Nobody thinks it will work, do they?

Lloyd Dobler : No. You just described every great success story.



**********


People who overcome adversity usually share one core trait at the beginning of their journey. They are defiant.

Someone says "No" to them and they refuse that answer. They won't accept it. Then they do anything and everything to find a way to continue on their journey. How badly does Karma Police's son want it?

Most people aren't willing to be uncomfortable to move forward. There's always a reason. They are too tired from work to do some late night drills with their kid on his footwork. They don't have the time. There isn't enough money. We are too busy. This is the part of the year for work when things get hectic and I can't deal with it right now. And on and on and on.

Many people complain and make excuses because it soothes their fragility. It's a lie they tell themselves to say to the world that they really did care when reality says something different.

Moving forward is an action. Rejection is better than regret. Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory lasts forever.

Fortune does not favor the bold, it favors momentum.

 

[KarmaPolice]

****, I knew I shouldn't have clicked on that last post. Now I am crabby, oh well.

If you think I am asking a coach to "give" my son something, I am either not relaying my thoughts well or people aren't reading my posts.

The basketball stuff was mostly me being pissed my son was taking elbows in practice for no reason. That combined with the doosh coach telling him he is just on the team to improve the other kid along with the horrible sense of "team" on this team are my beefs with the basketball program at his school. That's it. I don't expect my kid be "given" something he is not working at or whatever nonsense I've see in the thread.

But, it's likely all a moot point, so no need for more replies about that. He got hurt a couple weeks ago during a game, is shut down for this season. During our talks this last month he is still sticking with the stance that if he is still going to school at this HS he is not playing for this program any more, so I am oddly mourning likely seeing my son's last HS basketball game. Not something I was prepared to think about, or knew I was watching a couple weeks ago, but it's hitting me hard this week. I think it's more that and him saying during our talks that nothing else interests him, so I am worried about him not having a sport or club to possibly take his mind off other b.s. going on in teen land.

 

[PIK95]

Your son is in high school, there is absolutely no reason for the parent to get involved. If he wants to transfer because of athletics, you're doing it wrong.

Strongly disagree

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

As far as this - he did talk to the coach twice about that, and the elbows stopped. Now the rest of the team largely ignores him at school. Less shot at a concussion or injury, but now school sucks even more. Yippie.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Your son is in high school, there is absolutely no reason for the parent to get involved. If he wants to transfer because of athletics, you're doing it wrong.

Strongly disagree

And he also didn't want to transfer because of sports. We talked about that and he new full well he might not make the team in the other HS. More it was the racism, teachers not doing anything about that, and the terrible teachers he is encountering at our school.

 

[PIK95]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

As far as this - he did talk to the coach twice about that, and the elbows stopped. Now the rest of the team largely ignores him at school. Less shot at a concussion or injury, but now school sucks even more. Yippie.

Dude, you shouldn't even be listening to some of the people in here. Especially you know who. Im5 aguy that has coached for thirty years, and ran clubs. Some coaches suck, it is what it is. Run away if a better option is available. It never gets better. Go with your gut.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

As far as this - he did talk to the coach twice about that, and the elbows stopped. Now the rest of the team largely ignores him at school. Less shot at a concussion or injury, but now school sucks even more. Yippie.

Dude, you shouldn't even be listening to some of the people in here. Especially you know who. Im5 aguy that has coached for thirty years, and ran clubs. Some coaches suck, it is what it is. Run away if a better option is available. It never gets better. Go with your gut.

Good to see you in general, PIK. Hope all is well with you.

I just found it odd that they are acting like they already know who the starters for Varsity are going to be when they are Sophomores and these kids ain't Anthony Davis or anything.

 

[PIK95]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

As far as this - he did talk to the coach twice about that, and the elbows stopped. Now the rest of the team largely ignores him at school. Less shot at a concussion or injury, but now school sucks even more. Yippie.

Dude, you shouldn't even be listening to some of the people in here. Especially you know who. Im5 aguy that has coached for thirty years, and ran clubs. Some coaches suck, it is what it is. Run away if a better option is available. It never gets better. Go with your gut.

Good to see you in general, PIK. Hope all is well with you.

I just found it odd that they are acting like they already know who the starters for Varsity are going to be when they are Sophomores and these kids ain't Anthony Davis or anything.

Welcome to high school sports in 2023. Club isn't usually bad, but it cost. I can tell you some horror stories regarding school teams and our town unfortunately. I have been in the discord scene more, but I'm around here a lil. And I'm still on facebooks. Hope you are well.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

As far as this - he did talk to the coach twice about that, and the elbows stopped. Now the rest of the team largely ignores him at school. Less shot at a concussion or injury, but now school sucks even more. Yippie.

Dude, you shouldn't even be listening to some of the people in here. Especially you know who. Im5 aguy that has coached for thirty years, and ran clubs. Some coaches suck, it is what it is. Run away if a better option is available. It never gets better. Go with your gut.

Good to see you in general, PIK. Hope all is well with you.

I just found it odd that they are acting like they already know who the starters for Varsity are going to be when they are Sophomores and these kids ain't Anthony Davis or anything.

Welcome to high school sports in 2023. Club isn't usually bad, but it cost. I can tell you some horror stories regarding school teams and our town unfortunately. I have been in the discord scene more, but I'm around here a lil. And I'm still on facebooks. Hope you are well.

He did say after he is healed he is heading to the gym to bulk up and work on basketball stuff. I think he is still going to try to find a AAU team or club team or something.

After thinking about all our discussions, I have mentioned a few times that he should consider channeling some of this energy into coaching or volunteering. Maybe ask if they need an assistant for a younger team? Look into a Big Brother thing in the area? Something He said me might look into being a ref next year maybe as well. Who knows, maybe in a few months he will change his mind about school ball too. Time will tell.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

And he also didn't want to transfer because of sports. We talked about that and he new full well he might not make the team in the other HS. More it was the racism, teachers not doing anything about that, and the terrible teachers he is encountering at our school.

I'm going to take a slightly different tack than some of the other folks in this thread and say that all of this might be nothing to worry about.

I didn't play sports in high school and didn't encounter very many instances of overt racism, so I don't claim to have had the same HS experiences as your son, but I will be honest and say that I hated high school. Like, from the end of my freshman year on, I could not wait to get to college. I had friends and I enjoyed my time with speech and debate, but I pretty much hated every class I took. I had a small handful of excellent teachers, but I also had a very large number of mediocre-to-terrible teachers. I was able to graduate in the top 10% of my class while pretty much literally never cracking a book, and my 16 year-old self did not deal well with the lack of challenge. This was also about that time where I was starting to realize that I lived in a backwater, and I badly wanted to get away and live elsewhere for at least a little while. (I ended up never returning to my home town, and I'm pleased with that outcome.)

Maybe none of that stuff is relevant to your son, but I recognize the ennui that you're describing. It might be fixed simply by giving him a change of scenery in a couple of years. He just needs to put up with it for a little while longer.

 

[KarmaPolice]

And he also didn't want to transfer because of sports. We talked about that and he new full well he might not make the team in the other HS. More it was the racism, teachers not doing anything about that, and the terrible teachers he is encountering at our school.

I'm going to take a slightly different tack than some of the other folks in this thread and say that all of this might be nothing to worry about.

I didn't play sports in high school and didn't encounter very many instances of overt racism, so I don't claim to have had the same HS experiences as your son, but I will be honest and say that I hated high school. Like, from the end of my freshman year on, I could not wait to get to college. I had friends and I enjoyed my time with speech and debate, but I pretty much hated every class I took. I had a small handful of excellent teachers, but I also had a very large number of mediocre-to-terrible teachers. I was able to graduate in the top 10% of my class while pretty much literally never cracking a book, and my 16 year-old self did not deal well with the lack of challenge. This was also about that time where I was starting to realize that I lived in a backwater, and I badly wanted to get away and live elsewhere for at least a little while. (I ended up never returning to my home town, and I'm pleased with that outcome.)

Maybe none of that stuff is relevant to your son, but I recognize the ennui that you're describing. It might be fixed simply by giving him a change of scenery in a couple of years. He just needs to put up with it for a little while longer.

He is similar, but for me the biggest difference in the two situations is he is not doing well, needs structure and guidance from the teachers more, and I feel is closing doors on some options for after HS. It seems a big gripe about his ****ty teachers is that along with them being dicks, they aren't teaching them. He wants structure is more getting "I hate my job, here - read this while I largely F off" vibe from the teachers.

Appreciate your feedback. It sucks that so many people hate HS so much. I didn't love it, but I found my niche in swimming and at work. My major concern is that it feels like he doesn't even have that 1-2 things that gets him through currently. Basketball was one. Work he likes, but we work in the town up the road so work friends don't spill over into the school like it did for me either. Just want the kid to get a win or two in his HS years.

 

[AAABatteries]

Most of the time it's just hormones. You have to let them get it out, don't get too emotional about it, and then talk to them when their mind is in a better space later.

My Dad gave me this advice about my wife. She turns 50 this year so I’m hoping this year is the one!

 

[Spartans Rule]

I just found it odd that they are acting like they already know who the starters for Varsity are going to be when they are Sophomores and these kids ain't Anthony Davis or anything.

A baseball coach at my high school told my dad that my brother would never make varsity -- when he was 8! And he was good, too. The coach picked him for the 8-year-old all-star team, but had to make it clear that this wasn't an endorsement of him as a prospective high school player. It was baffling. Outside of identifying the Anthony Davis or Mike Trout types I really don't see the point of planning years in advance, but lots of high school coaches do it.

 

[jobarules]

And he also didn't want to transfer because of sports. We talked about that and he new full well he might not make the team in the other HS. More it was the racism, teachers not doing anything about that, and the terrible teachers he is encountering at our school.

I'm going to take a slightly different tack than some of the other folks in this thread and say that all of this might be nothing to worry about.

I didn't play sports in high school and didn't encounter very many instances of overt racism, so I don't claim to have had the same HS experiences as your son, but I will be honest and say that I hated high school. Like, from the end of my freshman year on, I could not wait to get to college. I had friends and I enjoyed my time with speech and debate, but I pretty much hated every class I took. I had a small handful of excellent teachers, but I also had a very large number of mediocre-to-terrible teachers. I was able to graduate in the top 10% of my class while pretty much literally never cracking a book, and my 16 year-old self did not deal well with the lack of challenge. This was also about that time where I was starting to realize that I lived in a backwater, and I badly wanted to get away and live elsewhere for at least a little while. (I ended up never returning to my home town, and I'm pleased with that outcome.)

Maybe none of that stuff is relevant to your son, but I recognize the ennui that you're describing. It might be fixed simply by giving him a change of scenery in a couple of years. He just needs to put up with it for a little while longer.

He is similar, but for me the biggest difference in the two situations is he is not doing well, needs structure and guidance from the teachers more, and I feel is closing doors on some options for after HS. It seems a big gripe about his ****ty teachers is that along with them being dicks, they aren't teaching them. He wants structure is more getting "I hate my job, here - read this while I largely F off" vibe from the teachers.

Appreciate your feedback. It sucks that so many people hate HS so much. I didn't love it, but I found my niche in swimming and at work. My major concern is that it feels like he doesn't even have that 1-2 things that gets him through currently. Basketball was one. Work he likes, but we work in the town up the road so work friends don't spill over into the school like it did for me either. Just want the kid to get a win or two in his HS years.

I hated HS. Barely fit in. Had a few friends and none lived closed to me (I went to a specialized HS in Manhattan). Didnt play any sports. Didnt goto prom. Barely cared about my graduation. I understand how you feel but its not that important. I ended up meeting my wife during college and have made tons of great friends as an adult. Your son will be fine. Some kids take longer to find their niche in life. I think my son will be one of those.

 

[GordonGekko]

If you think I am asking a coach to "give" my son something, I am either not relaying my thoughts well or people aren't reading my posts.

The basketball stuff was mostly me being pissed my son was taking elbows in practice for no reason. That combined with the doosh coach telling him he is just on the team to improve the other kid along with the horrible sense of "team" on this team are my beefs with the basketball program at his school. That's it. I don't expect my kid be "given" something he is not working at or whatever nonsense I've see in the thread.

VIDEO: Basic Focus Mitt Drill - the 8 Count Jul 29, 2014

A basic focus mitt drill we use at Raja Academy Muay Thai in Greenville, SC. It teaches how strike and move fluidly and avoid being pinned down in one place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AwfbyoocDE



VIDEO: Advanced Boxing Body Protector Training | How To Padwork | 2X Olympian Shiva Thapa Jul 8, 2015

Coach Rick's Mittology Training ULTI-MiTT Technical Boxing Series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64qNQryjp-8



********


The best way to teach a young person on how to handle hard contact in sports is to teach them some boxing. Hold focus mitts for them. Then advance to a strike shield then with coaching body armor. Let the kid learn how to hit someone. Get comfortable hitting someone. Then put the armor on him and let him learn what it feels like to get hit. In a stable safe environment. After a while, being hit while under duress becomes normalized.

Boys are designed to fight. To wrestle. To get into scraps. To exert their aggression out on each other.

It's also a good bonding methodology. Much of what is taught about Father/Son interaction today is built around talking. Talking and more talking. There is some value in a good talk sometimes. But it's better to teach your son a very specific skill. Something you can work on together. And while in the process of doing it, it gives him an opportunity to talk about things he's got going on in his life. Like girls. Or school work. Or problems with friends. Also the interaction forces you to take both a problem solving mindset and a teaching mindset.

Holding mitts effectively is a skill. Learning good drills for him to run requires legwork.

If the kid can't take a hit, or some elbows, then teach him how to take a hit. And teach him how to dish it out. Don't tell him to give up on basketball if he loves it. Don't let him if he loves it. The problem with learning how to retreat all the time is life corners you into making a last stand somewhere when you are at your weakest. That's how real life chews up and spits out so many young men out there.

This is practical advice. If you aren't in a situation where you can afford this kind of training equipment as such, then reach out to me in private. That's your choice. Insult me in public if you wish, that's also your choice. But this advice is for your son's benefit. Solely for him. Not for you, not for me. You don't like me. So what. I don't like you. So what. I also don't respect you. So what. It's not about that. It's about a kid who needs help.

Enabling your son to quit something he loves, if he loves it, is "nonsense"

If the kid works hard at his basketball skills in his own time, but he is relentless and leaves no stone unturned, even if it doesn't work out the way he wants ( more playing time, more minutes, whatever), there's still a valuable life lesson there to be had. Sometimes life is going to disappoint you. But you have to do your best and understand what that really means. Sometimes, for some people, it means outworking everyone non stop. To burn 1000 times harder to get 1/1000th of what they get with no effort. Sometimes life isn't fair that way.

Part of this is teaching a young man how to lead himself, so one day if he has a family, he can lead others. What I'm talking about is a lesson you can't buy with money. It's time you will never get back with him.

Kid is going to have to learn to take a hit. And also give one. He can learn today with you. Or he can learn down the road on his own when it's forced upon him and it costs him a thousand times more in pain and regret. Your choice here.

 

[GordonGekko]

Dude, you shouldn't even be listening to some of the people in here. Especially you know who. Im5 aguy that has coached for thirty years, and ran clubs. Some coaches suck, it is what it is. Run away if a better option is available. It never gets better. Go with your gut.

Which part?

Working harder
Finding other coaching and training outside of the current school system
Working outside of practice, i.e. skill development
Getting actual "film" of the kid playing and getting someone more experienced to break it down and identify weaknesses and areas of improvement
Setting up the logistics to get help as need, to get the training needed
Taking the mindset that no matter what people tell you that you can't do, if you love it enough, put in the work with your hands and toil and keep trying to find a way.
Approaching people and being proactive in terms of finding other coaches, training and resources. Pay for it, barter if you need to, work something out.
That the kind of people who can help level up the kid are more likely to help someone who already trying to help himself. They want to see dedication and relentlessness before they invest.
Finding alternative methodologies like martial arts so a kid can learn to normalize hard contact and also dish it out

What's your advice here? Keep complaining, accept that everyone is going to screw you ( or are a racist) and then keep retreating? Is that what you taught kids for three straight decades?

This is problem solving. Effort the problem. Leave no stone unturned. Do your very best, beyond what limits you think you might have. If you love it enough, it won't feel like pain. Then if it doesn't work out as you hope, at least you can say you have no regrets. You can hold your head high and realize you gave it your all. Just showing up to practice is not giving it your all. That's not how life works.

Should people leave a toxic situation. Sure, when they've done their complete best. I mean all the way to the bone kind of effort. This kid is going to face idiots and messed up people in charge all his life. There is more than just basketball here, there are also valuable life lessons that can be learned. You need to bleed first before you understand that some hills aren't worth dying on. Are some of you allergic to a little blood?

If you spent thirty years doing this and all you have is talking about more retreating, then I don't know what to say to you. Life comes at you hard. Go hard back.

 

[quick-hands]

Short version - my son has had a terrible year, and approached us last week about the desire to transfer schools. 2 main reasons: the basketball program and overt racism he has witnessed in the school.


Longer version:

Basketball: He is on the JV team. At the start of the year he wasn't getting playing time. Rules of the basketball program are: the kid meets with the coach by themselves, if nothing is resolved then it's parents and coach (with kid), if still not meet with the head Varsity coach, then with the AD, etc.. So, he did the right thing - went to the coach after the first couple games of getting about 3mins of playing time and asked what he could do to get more time. The coach said he needed to show more hustle on the court, play with more aggression, etc.. He has slowly worked into a bit more playing time so that is improving a tad. BUT -- the backstory is he and the other kid are both 6'6" at 16. The other kid has about 50-60 pounds on him, and super long arms. He has low IQ on the court, get's called for 3sec violations constantly, usually looks lost on the court, and gets into foul trouble almost every game because he constantly jumps into the ball handler on pump fakes. Leaves his feet all the time. Also, when he gets upset he starts throwing elbows. Now, I agree 100% that my son is not as aggressive, but he has his abilities - mainly a high court IQ, good at identifying where to go with the ball and more accurately gets the ball to his teamates. Also much better shooter out of the paint. Also, when they play vs. each other my son has figured out how to shut him down and this makes him upset. Granted, this is from him from their time in practice and at the rec center - but I have seen that side of him on the court - getting pissed and throwing elbows.

Now, tonight he got in the car visibly upset. Turns out he got drilled in face several times during practice from this kid enough so that he had a bloody nose and rattled enough that he said his ears were buzzing a bit. Yes, they were scrimmaging and he claims he was shutting the kid down. He said the coach saw it all and just told him to calm down (because he was getting upset about getting hit in the face). We started talking a bit about what I should do about this because while I get it's a rough sport, but IMO this is a bit much. He just shut down and shrugged and said it wouldn't matter. I pried more, and what he never told us was on day 1 after tryouts for JV the varsity coach during their 1 on 1 told him the only reason he made the team and was on the squad was to make this other kid better. I was furious at hearing this.

This is where my venting and desire for outside input comes in. Is this business as usual for HS sports, or am I justified in my anger. My opinion is that is should be up to the coaches to coach these kids and improve them and whoever is better for the team plays more. How in the world can he trust that any attempt to improve will be met with an honest assessment after that?

Maybe it's just me being an upset parent or having too much of a fluffy, team driven ideal for sports. We've been pretty disappointed in his experience in the program up to this point, and it's still a sport he loves and wants to play in general. But tonight he said that if we don't agree to the transfer, or it's not accepted as of now he has 0 plans to play on the team next year. I hate that idea, but I am starting to at least understand where he is coming from and wouldn't argue with him about it too much. My main concern there is that he doesn't do a ton else besides basketball and work so I hate to have 0 school activities on the resume.


School: We are in small town WI. We were randomly talking about race and things in the car while driving and him saying that he has witnessed people in the school calling a couple of the black kids (I believe there are only 3-4) the N-word to their face. He said it's happened in games, he said he's witnessed it being said around a teacher with the teacher only staring and not saying anything, etc.. Overall I think he is a bit miserable at the school and these things are adding up and really bringing him down. Mood is down, grades are plummeting, etc.. We work at the same place in a town up the road, and that is where he wants to attempt to transfer to. He gets along with the students who work there (I think he is the only kid from our town at the store right now), and thinks it's a better fit. Some of kids are on the basketball team as well and one of the kids happens to be black and he said he has been talking to them for a month or so and they can't believe what's going on either (again, I realize this is all filtered through him).


Anyway, I am just at a loss of where to begin with my anger and frustration. He has been letting this build and been hanging on to this for a few months now - to the point where he looked up the info about how to try to transfer. It really caught me off guard then, and I've been trying to rationally sort out what to do since then. My first instinct was that a transfer doesn't automatically solve the problems - there will still be ignorance at that school, crappy teachers, and he doesn't know how basketball will go. But after tonight talking to him, I was more open to the idea.

Any thoughts, questions, advice appreciated.

hold out for a better n.i.l. deal

 

[mr. furley]

Your son is in high school, there is absolutely no reason for the parent to get involved. If he wants to transfer because of athletics, you're doing it wrong.

terrible take

 

[mr. furley]

He did say after he is healed he is heading to the gym to bulk up and work on basketball stuff. I think he is still going to try to find a AAU team or club team or something.

forget where you are in WI, gb.

if you're near the Fox valley have you looked at https://www.team1848.com/ ?

 

[Manster]

Sounds like he may not get a fair shake with this coach. I'm not sure challenging this coach will get you very far. I would look into transferring for sure.

As for the racism, that sucks. There is a lot of racial tension in our country these days. We live in a really big school district with a fair amount of diversity. Our daughter has endured racism for being a "basic white girl". She's often told you can't be racist against white people because white people have the power. She has been accused of being racist for goofy/nonexistent things. It's as if it's the default thing to throw around now whenever someone is upset. No matter your skin color, it's not ok to use it against you, especially children. Racism is learned.

 

[Chadstroma]

Basketball: There is an abundance of bad coaches out there. A JV coach that has the mindset that he has X player on the team to make Y team better is exposing themselves as being one of those not good coaches. Even more so when you are talking about 6'6''ish 16 year olds. The right approach would be simply be "I need both of you to make each other better" and foster teamwork and a team first attitude. The bloody elbows being thrown on the other kids side and the "I can get into his head and shut him down" from your kid tells me that there is not a lot of team unity going on and if you are starting from a point of "You are here to make him better" that tells me it starts with the coach.

Personally, I would want that meeting with the coach and my son. I would want to know what the philosophy of the coach is, what the coach is thinking and seeing, what his plans are and I would flat out ask him about the "you are here to make the other kid better" thing. At this point, you are taking a 16 year old's word for everything. Giving your kid the benefit of the doubt, he could be telling the truth from his perspective but it may not be the whole picture. Plus, a 16 year old is just a ball of emotion and bad choices so that can complicate things even for a good kid telling the truth and then on top of that we all know kids don't always tell the truth or the whole truth etc.

Transferring: When I was in 8th grade my group of friends were basically a bunch of wanna be gang bangers and budding drug dealers. As you can surmise, it was not the best of situations. My Mom wanted and pushed me to spend more time with a friend of mine that I had met between 6th and 7th grade summer and was good friends with. He went to another school and my perspective was that that school had hotter girls. So, I decided I wanted to go there. I essentially manipulating the situation for what I wanted. I played my Mother's desire for me to get away from the other friends, agreed to go to a shrink for help but the only reason I did was that I knew that the transfer would be hard to get approved but if I had a shrink saying it would be beneficial to me then it would be a done deal. I played up what I figured the shrink wanted to hear and got the recommendation for the transfer. My 9th grade year was at the other school. I am not saying your son is manipulating you but I bring this up as a cautionary tale of how kids, even as young as 8th grade, can be very adept at getting what they want by telling parents things they want or don't want to hear and even professionals as well.

Racism: I got to say... I can't buy in that this will be a solution by transferring schools. Racism or the brand of youth racism isn't a school thing. It is just a thing. By brand of youth racism, I mean, a lot of it is simply you don't like person A and person A happens to be part of this demographic so then you use racial slurs to verbally assault them and it is more about being a weapon to use against that person that anything else. That said, racism exists, and if a particular area has it then likely the change of school will not change things.

No "do this" things to say but just giving some further feedback for you. I wish the best for your son and you on this.

 

[Chadstroma]

Sounds like he may not get a fair shake with this coach. I'm not sure challenging this coach will get you very far. I would look into transferring for sure.

As for the racism, that sucks. There is a lot of racial tension in our country these days. We live in a really big school district with a fair amount of diversity. Our daughter has endured racism for being a "basic white girl". She's often told you can't be racist against white people because white people have the power. She has been accused of being racist for goofy/nonexistent things. It's as if it's the default thing to throw around now whenever someone is upset. No matter your skin color, it's not ok to use it against you, especially children. Racism is learned.

Gawd... I hate that ignorant crap. Here is the thing, if you are being treated like crap simply because of your demographic you are in that by definition means you do not have power.

 

[KingPrawn]

Maybe I missed it, but did you ever go in yourself and talk to the coach, the teachers, etc.? Everything I've heard (and again, maybe I missed it) has been from your son's perspective. Seems like that would be a big part of it for me before I made any decisions about transfers. Is it the coaches and the teachers? Is it your son? Is it miscommunication or misunderstanding?

 

[Grahamburn]

I think your kid should say "Hey, coach. You saw that dude getting out of control and throwing elbows and just let it slide. So I'm out. No interest in practicing in that environment. Have a nice season, guy."

Quit culture continues.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Your son is in high school, there is absolutely no reason for the parent to get involved. If he wants to transfer because of athletics, you're doing it wrong.

terrible take

Yeah sure. And when he goes to college maybe mommy and daddy can talk to his professor for him when he gets a bad grade. And when he gets a job maybe mommy and daddy can go talk to his boss when he gets skipped over for a promotion.

My daughter plays high level softball and is currently in the recruiting process to play D1 in college. She won't allow me to speak to any coaches (both HS and Club), administrators or anyone who is even remotely close to the softball program or has any type of control or influence over it. Guess, we just raise them differently here. Best to try and stay away from helicopter parents.

 

[mr. furley]

Your son is in high school, there is absolutely no reason for the parent to get involved. If he wants to transfer because of athletics, you're doing it wrong.

terrible take

Yeah sure. And when he goes to college maybe mommy and daddy can talk to his professor for him when he gets a bad grade. And when he gets a job maybe mommy and daddy can go talk to his boss when he gets skipped over for a promotion.

My daughter plays high level softball and is currently in the recruiting process to play D1 in college. She won't allow me to speak to any coaches (both HS and Club), administrators or anyone who is even remotely close to the softball program or has any type of control or influence over it. Guess, we just raise them differently here. Best to try and stay away from helicopter parents.

raising kids isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition. you're apparently the kind of guy who forces their kids to suffer needlessly for no reason, and that's great fodder for your kid's therapists to work through down the road.

some of us prefer not to force our kids to suffer needlessly when there are options available to prevent unnecessary bad outcomes.

telling kids "get ####ed. suffer." isn't something that we're doing in 2023. hth.

 

[SWC]

As far as this - he did talk to the coach twice about that, and the elbows stopped. Now the rest of the team largely ignores him at school. Less shot at a concussion or injury, but now school sucks even more. Yippie.

Dude, you shouldn't even be listening to some of the people in here. Especially you know who. Im5 aguy that has coached for thirty years, and ran clubs. Some coaches suck, it is what it is. Run away if a better option is available. It never gets better. Go with your gut.

Good to see you in general, PIK. Hope all is well with you.

I just found it odd that they are acting like they already know who the starters for Varsity are going to be when they are Sophomores and these kids ain't Anthony Davis or anything.

Welcome to high school sports in 2023. Club isn't usually bad, but it cost. I can tell you some horror stories regarding school teams and our town unfortunately. I have been in the discord scene more, but I'm around here a lil. And I'm still on facebooks. Hope you are well.

He did say after he is healed he is heading to the gym to bulk up and work on basketball stuff. I think he is still going to try to find a AAU team or club team or something.

After thinking about all our discussions, I have mentioned a few times that he should consider channeling some of this energy into coaching or volunteering. Maybe ask if they need an assistant for a younger team? Look into a Big Brother thing in the area? Something He said me might look into being a ref next year maybe as well. Who knows, maybe in a few months he will change his mind about school ball too. Time will tell.

for aau i think this is important it doesnt matter if they are on an a team if they wont play i would much rather have a kid who played b or c ball all summer and got on the court and got acquainted with their game that is a lot more important than sitting on the bench for an a team and not getting any better i just pointing this out so when it comes time to make a decision on a team you have that thought from a guy who maybe knows a little about this when it comes to aau and getting better at bball you have to leave your ego outside the gym take that to the bank brohans

 

[SWC]

i have had some players not want their parents involved in their game but it was never because they were taught to not have mommy and daddy help or whatever that mother jazz is it was because the kids knew thier parents were a problem not an asset take that to the bank brohans

 

[SWC]

also let me say this many many colleges recruit families they want the whole picture and if you are a parent who wont help your kid or who sits in the stands yelling and being in general a disagreeable sob you are hurting your kids recruiting prospects take that to the bank bromigos

 

[Snotbubbles]

Your son is in high school, there is absolutely no reason for the parent to get involved. If he wants to transfer because of athletics, you're doing it wrong.

terrible take

Yeah sure. And when he goes to college maybe mommy and daddy can talk to his professor for him when he gets a bad grade. And when he gets a job maybe mommy and daddy can go talk to his boss when he gets skipped over for a promotion.

My daughter plays high level softball and is currently in the recruiting process to play D1 in college. She won't allow me to speak to any coaches (both HS and Club), administrators or anyone who is even remotely close to the softball program or has any type of control or influence over it. Guess, we just raise them differently here. Best to try and stay away from helicopter parents.

raising kids isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition. you're apparently the kind of guy who forces their kids to suffer needlessly for no reason, and that's great fodder for your kid's therapists to work through down the road.

some of us prefer not to force our kids to suffer needlessly when there are options available to prevent unnecessary bad outcomes.

telling kids "get ####ed. suffer." isn't something that we're doing in 2023. hth.

"Suffer needlessly?" The kid isn't getting playing time on his high school basketball team. Maybe we have different definitions of "suffering". I get it, Daddy, being an unbiased onlooker, thinks his kid, Lebron Junior, is better than the kid playing ahead of him.

Again, I'll use my real life example of my daughter. At 12u she was benched mercilessly by her club coach. Instead of pouting and quitting and changing teams, I told her to work harder and make the coach have to play her. You know what happened? She worked harder and the following season ended up becoming the #1 pitcher on her team, winning a 12u National Championship and then finishing second at 14u Nationals a couple years later. You see if I would have allowed her to move when the situation was hard, all she would have done was point fingers, make excuses and quit every time things didn't go her way. Now she's being recruited by D1 programs. It's a life lesson and you set expectations of future actions in everything you do in life with how you handle this situation.

 

[Snotbubbles]

also let me say this many many colleges recruit families they want the whole picture and if you are a parent who wont help your kid or who sits in the stands yelling and being in general a disagreeable sob you are hurting your kids recruiting prospects take that to the bank bromigos

Great post. I'll second this. College recruiters don't just recruit talent, they recruit families.

 

[JAA]

@KarmaPolice - found this thread through mine. Hope all is well with your son.

What did you end up doing?

 

[KarmaPolice]

@KarmaPolice - found this thread through mine. Hope all is well with your son.

What did you end up doing?

He ended up getting a spot on an AAU team over the summer and it was probably the best thing that's happened to him basketball-wise. It's all about the coach - he got one that worked with the kids, actually gave them print outs of what they do well and what they can do to improve. The coach pushed him and wanted him in the O more and it gave him quite the confidence boost. It put a little fire in him, and I've noticed he's been hitting the courts more and more since then. He saw the HS varsity coach over the summer, asked him what he wanted him to work on, and has been doing that in the ams by himself at school. He's been putting up 800-1000 3s a week, and working on other stuff there. Then he also goes to the rec center and works on post moves and footwork at night a few times a week. The HS season starts in about 3 weeks, so we will see then how the team dynamics are and how the tryouts go. Been proud of how he's handled this and the work he's been putting into it. Still doesn't like the coach, the team dynamic, or most of the players on his team, but we don't have much control over that part of the equation.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I would have put a tennis racket in his hands and shared how he can continue playing that sport forever
Nobody stops you or steals playing time in Singles

I'm just guessing he wants to play basketball all the way thru college, is that a real possibility?
Hundreds and Hundreds of schools have BBall programs so I would imagine he can find a spot but is he hoping for a scholarship?

The Summer program was good, why does he want to play for the school again and deal with all those headaches when he won't be treated fairly?
6 foot 6 and still growing you say?
Is there a reason he can't play TE in football, even a walk on at whatever University he chooses, i bet they'd love for him to try out.

Good luck to your son and good luck as his father, he's in good hands
You'll figure out together the best course for his future.