dgreen
Footballguy
I think some people are overestimating how much the average NFL customer will care about this in a couple years.
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Vick accepts plea deal (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Colin Dowling
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suchislife
Footballguy
Let's think this thru...his last meaningful NFL play was December 2006. If he's sentenced to ONLY 18 months in prison, he gets out June 2009. Then assume ONLY a one year ban from the NFL, he won't be eligible until June 2010 - 3 1/2 years since he last put on pads.How much would he have left?
Norwood...Wide Right!
Footballguy
I'm not agreeing or disagreenig w/ your response, but do we have any empirical data to support such a conclusion in the NFL?
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Vinny Testaverde can make smart decisions and throw a football accurately.I'm thinking just maybe Vick's strengths aren't quite so timeless.Got two words for ya...Vinny Testaverde. If that guy can find a job in the NFL at the age of 40+, so can Vick.There are 50 reasons well documented as to why he won't be able to get a job. From his "baggage" to the cost to the fact that only a few teams would risk it to the fact that despite the excitement he brings, "what has he really done in the NFL?"I think all of those factors, combined with the death-knell of the next two NFL drafts being LOADED with QB talent will make a roster spot hard for him to come by even in the event he (1) gets permission to play from the league, (2) finds someone who will take him back and (3) gets a contract agreeable to what he feels he's worth. Even further complicating matters is that we all assume the guy will even WANT to play football in a year or two or whenever he is again given the opportunity.I agree with you, I think the most likely scenario is Goodell suspends him indefinitely...with the 2nd most likely scenario being an outright lifetime ban.
suchislife
Footballguy
Sirius is guessing...no one knows how much time the judge will sentence him to. We won't know until sometime in November at the earliest.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Agreed.
zadok
Footballguy
He's pleading guilty to the entire indictment issued last month - several examples of gambling are in there. Implicit in that is that a dog fighting ring exists for people to bet on. That's the whole purpose. But point of fact, the NFL was conducting it's own investigation. In other words, regardless of what Vick pleads to, the NFL can find him guilty of all that and more and ban him for life.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
What's the countdown to him being cut by the Falcons, Nike etc...
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
Vick is on my "players to avoid" list this year.
suchislife
Footballguy
My guess is that he's part of the Falcon's next round of cuts.
zadok
Footballguy
On the issues of money and gambling, what will Peace and Phillips offer against Vick?
They will join Taylor (the first co-defendant to plead guilty) in describing the critical roles of Vick's name and his money in the establishment and the financing of the 15-acre kennel compound. More importantly, Peace and Phillips will tell the jury that Vick was the gambler in the enterprise. He was the winner when they won and the loser when they lost. The bets that were made, were made with Vick's money. In his plea agreement, Taylor said Vick was the source of all funds, both for the operation and for the gambling. He said one of the cohorts made the side bets, but Vick took the wins and paid the losses.
Vick's participation in this form of gambling will cause him serious difficulty with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, as well as the government if a superseding indictment comes down and includes a felony gambling charge. Peace will describe Vick's payment of $23,000 in losses from the dogfight doubleheader in March 2003. Peace was present, he will testify, when Vick paid the money from a stash he kept in a book bag. Both Peace and Phillips will also describe Vick paying $11,000 in losses from a fight against a dog named "Trouble" in late 2003.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=2979011
They will join Taylor (the first co-defendant to plead guilty) in describing the critical roles of Vick's name and his money in the establishment and the financing of the 15-acre kennel compound. More importantly, Peace and Phillips will tell the jury that Vick was the gambler in the enterprise. He was the winner when they won and the loser when they lost. The bets that were made, were made with Vick's money. In his plea agreement, Taylor said Vick was the source of all funds, both for the operation and for the gambling. He said one of the cohorts made the side bets, but Vick took the wins and paid the losses.
Vick's participation in this form of gambling will cause him serious difficulty with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, as well as the government if a superseding indictment comes down and includes a felony gambling charge. Peace will describe Vick's payment of $23,000 in losses from the dogfight doubleheader in March 2003. Peace was present, he will testify, when Vick paid the money from a stash he kept in a book bag. Both Peace and Phillips will also describe Vick paying $11,000 in losses from a fight against a dog named "Trouble" in late 2003.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=2979011
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bbuster
Footballguy
Legal expert on NFL Network also said that there is no reducing of time with the Federal charge.ESPN's lawyer just said there is no time off for good behavior in the federal system. None.I was just pinging a few lawyer friends of mine asking the same thingI know we definitely have "time off for good behavior" here in the U.S. but I'm not sure it's as regimented as 1/6th of your total sentencing, but I'm no lawyer. Would love to hear from a criminal defense attorney with the goods on this one.
zadok
Footballguy
You can't plead guilty to only part of 1 indictment, right?
doughboydeluxe
Footballguy
I guess this gives new meaning when you say that Vick is a breakout candidate this year.
NFL network reporting 10 to 12 months for Vick.
suchislife
Footballguy
Can this guilty plea be used as evidence in the pending state charges? Remember Poindexter has vowed to press state charges yet.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Actually, his lawyers might have done a pretty good job of avoiding additional charges from being filed against him. The government was not going to let up on any of the existing charges.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
The whole point of the plea was to avoid getting more serious charges added this week, including RICO charges, not to reduce his current charges. Getting 18-36 months is a great plea deal based against 20+ for the RICO charges.
switz
Footballguy
Man oh man.I'm sorry .... I got caught
is s much different than
I'm sorry I did it.
While I will always argue that people can change, I am not sorry to see Vick pay the punishment, and hope it is severe.
bbuster
Footballguy
They have also said that the state can still make a case against him, so it's likely that it's not over even after he serves his federal time. Say goodnight Mike.
suchislife
Footballguy
Did the NFL Network get that info from Judge Henry Hudson? Since he's yet to hand down his sentence and probably won't for another 3 months.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
More bad reporting.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Both of these are just bad reporting... the plea has a recommended sentence of 18 to 36 months, so 18 is the minimum he is going to get. The judge could also sentence him to more than 36 months, as the recommended sentence is only a recommendation -- it is not a promise or guarantee that the sentence will fall in that range.Also, when he is done serving federal time, he is going to start serving state time, which is not even close to being decided yet.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
The prosecution can allow someone to plead to whatever charges they want to if the prosecution decides to drop the other outstanding charges.In this case, Vick is agreeing in principal to the recommendations of the prosecution (in this case apparently 18-36 months). However, the judge can sentence Vick to whateve he deems is appropriate. It could be the range the parties agreed to, longer, or shorter. But it's up to the judge, not Vick and not the prosecution.And there are still pending state charges, and I'm pretty sure that the feds outcome doesnot wipe out what the state prosecutors are doing.
dgreen
Footballguy
This is why I don't feel the need to purchase a subscription. All the needed info is right here and free.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Vick's only 27. 1 year in jail and a 1 year suspension.He'll be 30 when he could potentially (assuming the above) be eligible to return. I doubt that his running skills will severly diminish in 2 years.Vinny Testaverde can make smart decisions and throw a football accurately.I'm thinking just maybe Vick's strengths aren't quite so timeless.Got two words for ya...Vinny Testaverde. If that guy can find a job in the NFL at the age of 40+, so can Vick.There are 50 reasons well documented as to why he won't be able to get a job. From his "baggage" to the cost to the fact that only a few teams would risk it to the fact that despite the excitement he brings, "what has he really done in the NFL?"I think all of those factors, combined with the death-knell of the next two NFL drafts being LOADED with QB talent will make a roster spot hard for him to come by even in the event he (1) gets permission to play from the league, (2) finds someone who will take him back and (3) gets a contract agreeable to what he feels he's worth. Even further complicating matters is that we all assume the guy will even WANT to play football in a year or two or whenever he is again given the opportunity.
bbuster
Footballguy
Schefter has been saying the plea recommendation was 10-12 months.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Will he learn to play quarterback during that time?Vick's only 27. 1 year in jail and a 1 year suspension.Vinny Testaverde can make smart decisions and throw a football accurately.I'm thinking just maybe Vick's strengths aren't quite so timeless.Got two words for ya...Vinny Testaverde. If that guy can find a job in the NFL at the age of 40+, so can Vick.There are 50 reasons well documented as to why he won't be able to get a job. From his "baggage" to the cost to the fact that only a few teams would risk it to the fact that despite the excitement he brings, "what has he really done in the NFL?"I think all of those factors, combined with the death-knell of the next two NFL drafts being LOADED with QB talent will make a roster spot hard for him to come by even in the event he (1) gets permission to play from the league, (2) finds someone who will take him back and (3) gets a contract agreeable to what he feels he's worth. Even further complicating matters is that we all assume the guy will even WANT to play football in a year or two or whenever he is again given the opportunity.I agree with you, I think the most likely scenario is Goodell suspends him indefinitely...with the 2nd most likely scenario being an outright lifetime ban.
He'll be 30 when he could potentially (assuming the above) be eligible to return. I doubt that his running skills will severly diminish in 2 years.
zadok
Footballguy
I understand about the flexible sentencing, but I'm talking about what is being accepted in the plea. Doesn't "charge" = "indictment"? In other words, there was only 1 charge against Vick as it stands today, he can only plead guily to that 1 charge, not part of that 1...
Dolfan
Footballguy
Where is Matt Schaub when you need him?Schaub is not necessarily > Harrington
Still think that Marcus is the bad one?
Will Portis come out and say this is not right?Probably
Imagine a CFL squad with Michael Vick, Lawrence Philippe, Ricky Williams & Charles RogersThat would be scary... Literally.
suchislife
Footballguy
OK, if you want to assume only 1 year in prison...He's sentenced in November/December 2007. He gets out of prison at the end of the 2008 NFL season. One year suspension puts us at the end of 2009 season. 2010 is the earliest he would possibly return. 3 1/2 years since he last put on pads.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
They did "take less" by not filing additional charges. The FI charges would have been much more trouble then what he ended up facing.
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
I am hoping and praying for Fox to do a reality show based loosely on The Longest Yard.
ceo3west
Footballguy
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
Also, if Vinny had to rely on his legs for employment in the NFL . . . he would not have made it to 30 much less 40+. Now tell me what Vick has going for him besides his legs?
thehornet
Footballguy
Wrong.
dgreen
Footballguy
He only has to be better than 90some other QBs in order to make a roster.Will he learn to play quarterback during that time?Vick's only 27. 1 year in jail and a 1 year suspension.Vinny Testaverde can make smart decisions and throw a football accurately.I'm thinking just maybe Vick's strengths aren't quite so timeless.Got two words for ya...Vinny Testaverde. If that guy can find a job in the NFL at the age of 40+, so can Vick.There are 50 reasons well documented as to why he won't be able to get a job. From his "baggage" to the cost to the fact that only a few teams would risk it to the fact that despite the excitement he brings, "what has he really done in the NFL?"I think all of those factors, combined with the death-knell of the next two NFL drafts being LOADED with QB talent will make a roster spot hard for him to come by even in the event he (1) gets permission to play from the league, (2) finds someone who will take him back and (3) gets a contract agreeable to what he feels he's worth. Even further complicating matters is that we all assume the guy will even WANT to play football in a year or two or whenever he is again given the opportunity.
He'll be 30 when he could potentially (assuming the above) be eligible to return. I doubt that his running skills will severly diminish in 2 years.
It's not about the average NFL Customer... it's about the PR the team that dares to sign him will endure by non-customers (special interest groups), leading into the media which ends with the general public.Who wants to deal with that for Micheal Vick?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Prison breakout or Herpes breakout?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
How is it wrong?
thehornet
Footballguy
Ray Lewis murdered someone and nobody even cares anymore!!!! You guys are nuts if you think anyone is gonna give #$%* about dogfighting charges in 2+ years.
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