Vince Young refusing to throw at the combine? (1 Viewer)

[rockbottom895]

I'm not refuting anything, I just happen to believe that Vince will not make as good an NFL QB, at least without some changes, as you. I think learning the 3, 5 and 7 step drops from center is going to be tougher then you think, that he will have some passes batted down at first until he adjusts and that although he may be bigger and tougher than Mike Vick, he isn't nearly as fast and he won't be able to take those hits in the NFL.

But I certainly could be wrong.

Actually, although I've not gone into it much, I have said in this thread that I think he will need to change his game some. The thing is I don't think he'll have that much of a problem doing that. He's changed his game a lot from the time he got to Texas until now. He'll have to get used to more snaps under center, less running, reading more complex defenses, etc. That's all given. It may take time and work, but nobody works harder.

Nobody with any sanity is coming on here saying Young is going to run in the NFL as much as he did in college. That would be crazy. But to discount his passing ability is a serious error in judgement...one which many have made, with sad endings for them. Combine that with his everpresent ability to take off, and he's a serious headache for D-coordinators.

Can we be realistic here for a second? Vince Young's ability does not translate well into the NFL, no matter how many coaches he works with. His game is always going to be run first, and with the fast and quick NFL defenses, he will have no where to go. He will turn out to be another Michael Vick (the Vick now, not before), where he has no arm and is plenty overated. He hasnt developed enough to be a good QB in the NFL. It should take him a good 6 or 7 years before he can become decent in the NFL. Learning all of the drops, and learning how to stay in the pocket and throw will not be an easy task for Vince. I mean realistically, without his running game, hes nothing. The only reason he threw well in college was because of his ability to run. When the NFL defenses realize they dont have to put 8 people in the box to stop the QB run, they can drop more into coverage. Vince Young is not a good QB.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'm not refuting anything, I just happen to believe that Vince will not make as good an NFL QB, at least without some changes, as you. I think learning the 3, 5 and 7 step drops from center is going to be tougher then you think, that he will have some passes batted down at first until he adjusts and that although he may be bigger and tougher than Mike Vick, he isn't nearly as fast and he won't be able to take those hits in the NFL.

But I certainly could be wrong.

Actually, although I've not gone into it much, I have said in this thread that I think he will need to change his game some. The thing is I don't think he'll have that much of a problem doing that. He's changed his game a lot from the time he got to Texas until now. He'll have to get used to more snaps under center, less running, reading more complex defenses, etc. That's all given. It may take time and work, but nobody works harder.

Nobody with any sanity is coming on here saying Young is going to run in the NFL as much as he did in college. That would be crazy. But to discount his passing ability is a serious error in judgement...one which many have made, with sad endings for them. Combine that with his everpresent ability to take off, and he's a serious headache for D-coordinators.

Can we be realistic here for a second? Vince Young's ability does not translate well into the NFL, no matter how many coaches he works with. His game is always going to be run first, and with the fast and quick NFL defenses, he will have no where to go. He will turn out to be another Michael Vick (the Vick now, not before), where he has no arm and is plenty overated. He hasnt developed enough to be a good QB in the NFL. It should take him a good 6 or 7 years before he can become decent in the NFL. Learning all of the drops, and learning how to stay in the pocket and throw will not be an easy task for Vince. I mean realistically, without his running game, hes nothing. The only reason he threw well in college was because of his ability to run. When the NFL defenses realize they dont have to put 8 people in the box to stop the QB run, they can drop more into coverage. Vince Young is not a good QB.

By saying that Young will be another Vick, you're just exposing your lack of knowledge of either Vick's or Young's style and abilities, or both. By saying Young's a run-first qb, you just prove that you realistically haven't watched much of Young this year. The lion's share of his runs and yardage came when most qbs would have taken a coverage sack or thrown it away...or on designed qb runs, which were far scarcer than in 2004. Young made his reads, saw all his receivers covered, then took 2, 3, 5, 10, or 80 yards from the defense...whatever was there....but he never gave up looking for open receivers.

There were many times in '05 that we were scratching our heads in the stands as the play developed, screaming "Run!", because there was daylight in front of him and he had always taken any open running room in '04. This year, though, he'd stay put and hit a big pass play that he wouldn't have even seen before. Did it over and over...and over. Defenses could never figger out what he'd do next.

A run-first qb does not throw for 3000 yards. If he was run-first, as you say, he would have run for a LOT more than the almost 1200 yards he gained this year. The opportunities were there...and I'm not just saying all this as a homer. I'm saying it as a person who knows a lot more about Young's football abilities than you do.

without his running game, hes nothing

...and without his lightning fast release, great arm, and accuracy, Dan Marino would be a guy you never heard of working in a steel mill in Pa. Do you think VY will be "without his running game" in the NFL? There are several QBs in the NFL who are considered good running QBs, to the point where defenses have to respect their running ability. Now, tell me how many of them, next year, will be as good or better at running with the football than Vince Young.

I can think of exactly one, who is, probably due to some of his own lobbying, mired in a horrific offensive gameplan devoid of focus or direction.

Vince Young is no worse than the 2nd best running qb in the nfl the day he gets drafted. To think he won't be able to run, force defenses to respect him and account for him, and create mismatches in the process is just naive.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

This thread is awesome. It's like a big game of "telephone", only everyone keeps thinking they know something that no one else knows.

1. Many top QBs avoid the combine.

2. It was in bad form for VY to say he'd throw and then back out.

3. Come APril 29th, no team is going to say, "We would select him if only we'd gotten to see him throw at the combine....but we didn't so we're gonna pass..."

4. VY has had a handful of bad PR moments in recent weeks, including the basketball game and forgetting his suit for the White House visit. However, while we pick all of it to death, none of these things has anything to do with football, and I expect their affect on his status to be minimal.

5. HIs contract/representation are a non-issue. He has FANTASTIC legal representation (the lawyer who won the big tobacco case here in Texas).

Colin,I think we differ on #4 here. I believe that some folks are saying it will have ZERO effect and for me to suggest that it might have an effect is ludicrous. I agree that it will be minimal and I agree that ESPN, et al. are making a story here because that seems to be their job. But saying that it is not possible that it will have any effect on any of the 32 teams is silly and probably incorrect. I still think that Leinart decision to return may have some effect on his standing in the eyes of at least one team. It may be semantics, but I'm not going to let someone who is clearly a big Vince Young fan try to say that it will have no effect at all. It might.

I can only assume that you are referring to me here. I am not saying that it has ZERO effect, I am saying that I don't believe that it has enough effect to drop him even 1 draft position. For example, if the Titans were ready to take him at #3 when he declared for the draft (and I don;t claim to KNOW one way or the other, this is a hypothetical) he has done nothing that would alter that decision to this point, they would still take at #3. That is my opinion, if yours is different so be it; like they say, opinions are like #######s....

For the love of all that is holy! I wasn't talking to you either. I was talking to Hawk. And I never stated that my opinon was better than yours. I'm giving a differing and, I think, valid opinion. Geez, stop being so sensitive.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

This thread is awesome.  It's like a big game of "telephone", only everyone keeps thinking they know something that no one else knows.

1. Many top QBs avoid the combine.

2. It was in bad form for VY to say he'd throw and then back out. 

3. Come APril 29th, no team is going to say, "We would select him if only we'd gotten to see him throw at the combine....but we didn't so we're gonna pass..."

4. VY has had a handful of bad PR moments in recent weeks, including the basketball game and forgetting his suit for the White House visit.  However, while we pick all of it to death, none of these things has anything to do with football, and I expect their affect on his status to be minimal.

5. HIs contract/representation are a non-issue.  He has FANTASTIC legal representation (the lawyer who won the big tobacco case here in Texas).

Colin,I think we differ on #4 here. I believe that some folks are saying it will have ZERO effect and for me to suggest that it might have an effect is ludicrous. I agree that it will be minimal and I agree that ESPN, et al. are making a story here because that seems to be their job. But saying that it is not possible that it will have any effect on any of the 32 teams is silly and probably incorrect. I still think that Leinart decision to return may have some effect on his standing in the eyes of at least one team. It may be semantics, but I'm not going to let someone who is clearly a big Vince Young fan try to say that it will have no effect at all. It might.

I can only assume that you are referring to me here. I am not saying that it has ZERO effect, I am saying that I don't believe that it has enough effect to drop him even 1 draft position. For example, if the Titans were ready to take him at #3 when he declared for the draft (and I don;t claim to KNOW one way or the other, this is a hypothetical) he has done nothing that would alter that decision to this point, they would still take at #3. That is my opinion, if yours is different so be it; like they say, opinions are like #######s....

For the love of all that is holy! I wasn't talking to you either. I was talking to Hawk. And I never stated that my opinon was better than yours. I'm giving a differing and, I think, valid opinion. Geez, stop being so sensitive.

Well ya know, it really was kinda hard to tell who you were replying to. it coulda been any of us, and I was the last you'd been in discussion with. I can easily see how he thought it was him, too. Oh well...

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Good summation of Leinart vs Young, now vs later...from another board.

This Leinhart/Young debate is fascinating, and should be fun to follow through the years. Leinhart is terrific, and will be better out of the box. Vince is the better athlete, and by that I don't just mean that he's faster. He has quicker athletic reactions, and he has the ability to play the game faster than anyone else. He doesn't just see where guys are, he sees where they are going to be. The story of Vince's time at UT is the story of how he expanded the area of the field that he mastered and controled from a 5 yard radius as a RS freshman to 30 yard radius as a junior. He won't control the field as an NFL rookie like that, but nobody does (except maybe Favre in his prime or Manning on his good days). He does have the potential to do so. Vince's main weakness is a very visible one- the physical act of throwing the ball. The main argument for taking him high in the draft, in my opinion, is the incredibly steep arc of improvement he had at UT. If that arc continues much more, he will be one of the best ever.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

This thread is awesome. It's like a big game of "telephone", only everyone keeps thinking they know something that no one else knows.

1. Many top QBs avoid the combine.

2. It was in bad form for VY to say he'd throw and then back out.

3. Come APril 29th, no team is going to say, "We would select him if only we'd gotten to see him throw at the combine....but we didn't so we're gonna pass..."

4. VY has had a handful of bad PR moments in recent weeks, including the basketball game and forgetting his suit for the White House visit. However, while we pick all of it to death, none of these things has anything to do with football, and I expect their affect on his status to be minimal.

5. HIs contract/representation are a non-issue. He has FANTASTIC legal representation (the lawyer who won the big tobacco case here in Texas).

Colin,I think we differ on #4 here. I believe that some folks are saying it will have ZERO effect and for me to suggest that it might have an effect is ludicrous. I agree that it will be minimal and I agree that ESPN, et al. are making a story here because that seems to be their job. But saying that it is not possible that it will have any effect on any of the 32 teams is silly and probably incorrect. I still think that Leinart decision to return may have some effect on his standing in the eyes of at least one team. It may be semantics, but I'm not going to let someone who is clearly a big Vince Young fan try to say that it will have no effect at all. It might.

I can only assume that you are referring to me here. I am not saying that it has ZERO effect, I am saying that I don't believe that it has enough effect to drop him even 1 draft position. For example, if the Titans were ready to take him at #3 when he declared for the draft (and I don;t claim to KNOW one way or the other, this is a hypothetical) he has done nothing that would alter that decision to this point, they would still take at #3. That is my opinion, if yours is different so be it; like they say, opinions are like #######s....

For the love of all that is holy! I wasn't talking to you either. I was talking to Hawk. And I never stated that my opinon was better than yours. I'm giving a differing and, I think, valid opinion. Geez, stop being so sensitive.

Well ya know, it really was kinda hard to tell who you were replying to. it coulda been any of us, and I was the last you'd been in discussion with. I can easily see how he thought it was him, too. Oh well...

Agreed that I probably should have mentioned him in the initial post. I just don't like calling people out to be honest with you. I think we can agree that this should be no big deal with teams. The difference is that I think it's possible (let's say 65% chance) that it does have an effect on at least one teams ranking of him. You guys (and pretty much everyone else in the thread) think there is almost no chance that it affects his ranking by any team.

I'm likely wrong, but I do think it's a valid point to consider.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

This thread is awesome.  It's like a big game of "telephone", only everyone keeps thinking they know something that no one else knows.

1. Many top QBs avoid the combine.

2. It was in bad form for VY to say he'd throw and then back out. 

3. Come APril 29th, no team is going to say, "We would select him if only we'd gotten to see him throw at the combine....but we didn't so we're gonna pass..."

4. VY has had a handful of bad PR moments in recent weeks, including the basketball game and forgetting his suit for the White House visit.  However, while we pick all of it to death, none of these things has anything to do with football, and I expect their affect on his status to be minimal.

5. HIs contract/representation are a non-issue.  He has FANTASTIC legal representation (the lawyer who won the big tobacco case here in Texas).

Colin,I think we differ on #4 here. I believe that some folks are saying it will have ZERO effect and for me to suggest that it might have an effect is ludicrous. I agree that it will be minimal and I agree that ESPN, et al. are making a story here because that seems to be their job. But saying that it is not possible that it will have any effect on any of the 32 teams is silly and probably incorrect. I still think that Leinart decision to return may have some effect on his standing in the eyes of at least one team. It may be semantics, but I'm not going to let someone who is clearly a big Vince Young fan try to say that it will have no effect at all. It might.

I can only assume that you are referring to me here. I am not saying that it has ZERO effect, I am saying that I don't believe that it has enough effect to drop him even 1 draft position. For example, if the Titans were ready to take him at #3 when he declared for the draft (and I don;t claim to KNOW one way or the other, this is a hypothetical) he has done nothing that would alter that decision to this point, they would still take at #3. That is my opinion, if yours is different so be it; like they say, opinions are like #######s....

For the love of all that is holy! I wasn't talking to you either. I was talking to Hawk. And I never stated that my opinon was better than yours. I'm giving a differing and, I think, valid opinion. Geez, stop being so sensitive.

Well ya know, it really was kinda hard to tell who you were replying to. it coulda been any of us, and I was the last you'd been in discussion with. I can easily see how he thought it was him, too. Oh well...

Agreed that I probably should have mentioned him in the initial post. I just don't like calling people out to be honest with you. I think we can agree that this should be no big deal with teams. The difference is that I think it's possible (let's say 65% chance) that it does have an effect on at least one teams ranking of him. You guys (and pretty much everyone else in the thread) think there is almost no chance that it affects his ranking by any team.

I'm likely wrong, but I do think it's a valid point to consider.

Understood...Like I think I already said, in other words, I think it's something worth considering, but I doubt very seriously that anything will come of it...i.e. I doubt very seriously that any team who's interested in him is worried about this in the least. They already know why they like him and this kind of bs couldn't bother them less. Just my gut.

Also, I was thinking, all of the attn has been focused on Houston and Tenn, and whether or not they'll take him, and NO taking Leinart. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there's some team out there who wants Vince freakin' Young so bad they can taste it and are trying right now to figure out a way to trade up to get him, thinking THIS is the guy we want. Same with Leinart. Don't be too shocked if some team comes outta nowhere to nab one of these guys.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Don't want to keep Quoting because it's getting so long, but I agree. I've seen a mock (Wood's?) where Young dropped to 4th. I know the Jets need a QB, but I could see any number of teams trading up to 4th with the Jets if D'Brick is gone. I also could see TEN deciding to get a QB elsewhere and trading down to get more picks with someone who has their eyes on Vince. The only team in the top 6 or 7 picks that I think is alomst guaranteed to go QB is New Orleans because they're getting rid of Brooks and they need a new face for the franchise and QBs are, in general, the face of a franchise.

 

[Festivus]

I'm not refuting anything, I just happen to believe that Vince will not make as good an NFL QB, at least without some changes, as you. I think learning the 3, 5 and 7 step drops from center is going to be tougher then you think, that he will have some passes batted down at first until he adjusts and that although he may be bigger and tougher than Mike Vick, he isn't nearly as fast and he won't be able to take those hits in the NFL.

But I certainly could be wrong.

Actually, although I've not gone into it much, I have said in this thread that I think he will need to change his game some. The thing is I don't think he'll have that much of a problem doing that. He's changed his game a lot from the time he got to Texas until now. He'll have to get used to more snaps under center, less running, reading more complex defenses, etc. That's all given. It may take time and work, but nobody works harder.

Nobody with any sanity is coming on here saying Young is going to run in the NFL as much as he did in college. That would be crazy. But to discount his passing ability is a serious error in judgement...one which many have made, with sad endings for them. Combine that with his everpresent ability to take off, and he's a serious headache for D-coordinators.

Can we be realistic here for a second? Vince Young's ability does not translate well into the NFL, no matter how many coaches he works with. His game is always going to be run first, and with the fast and quick NFL defenses, he will have no where to go. He will turn out to be another Michael Vick (the Vick now, not before), where he has no arm and is plenty overated. He hasnt developed enough to be a good QB in the NFL. It should take him a good 6 or 7 years before he can become decent in the NFL. Learning all of the drops, and learning how to stay in the pocket and throw will not be an easy task for Vince. I mean realistically, without his running game, hes nothing. The only reason he threw well in college was because of his ability to run. When the NFL defenses realize they dont have to put 8 people in the box to stop the QB run, they can drop more into coverage. Vince Young is not a good QB.

By saying that Young will be another Vick, you're just exposing your lack of knowledge of either Vick's or Young's style and abilities, or both. By saying Young's a run-first qb, you just prove that you realistically haven't watched much of Young this year. The lion's share of his runs and yardage came when most qbs would have taken a coverage sack or thrown it away...or on designed qb runs, which were far scarcer than in 2004. Young made his reads, saw all his receivers covered, then took 2, 3, 5, 10, or 80 yards from the defense...whatever was there....but he never gave up looking for open receivers.

There were many times in '05 that we were scratching our heads in the stands as the play developed, screaming "Run!", because there was daylight in front of him and he had always taken any open running room in '04. This year, though, he'd stay put and hit a big pass play that he wouldn't have even seen before. Did it over and over...and over. Defenses could never figger out what he'd do next.

A run-first qb does not throw for 3000 yards. If he was run-first, as you say, he would have run for a LOT more than the almost 1200 yards he gained this year. The opportunities were there...and I'm not just saying all this as a homer. I'm saying it as a person who knows a lot more about Young's football abilities than you do.

without his running game, hes nothing

...and without his lightning fast release, great arm, and accuracy, Dan Marino would be a guy you never heard of working in a steel mill in Pa. Do you think VY will be "without his running game" in the NFL? There are several QBs in the NFL who are considered good running QBs, to the point where defenses have to respect their running ability. Now, tell me how many of them, next year, will be as good or better at running with the football than Vince Young.

I can think of exactly one, who is, probably due to some of his own lobbying, mired in a horrific offensive gameplan devoid of focus or direction.

Vince Young is no worse than the 2nd best running qb in the nfl the day he gets drafted. To think he won't be able to run, force defenses to respect him and account for him, and create mismatches in the process is just naive.

 

[Irish]

I'm not refuting anything, I just happen to believe that Vince will not make as good an NFL QB, at least without some changes, as you. I think learning the 3, 5 and 7 step drops from center is going to be tougher then you think, that he will have some passes batted down at first until he adjusts and that although he may be bigger and tougher than Mike Vick, he isn't nearly as fast and he won't be able to take those hits in the NFL.

But I certainly could be wrong.

Actually, although I've not gone into it much, I have said in this thread that I think he will need to change his game some. The thing is I don't think he'll have that much of a problem doing that. He's changed his game a lot from the time he got to Texas until now. He'll have to get used to more snaps under center, less running, reading more complex defenses, etc. That's all given. It may take time and work, but nobody works harder.

Nobody with any sanity is coming on here saying Young is going to run in the NFL as much as he did in college. That would be crazy. But to discount his passing ability is a serious error in judgement...one which many have made, with sad endings for them. Combine that with his everpresent ability to take off, and he's a serious headache for D-coordinators.

Can we be realistic here for a second? Vince Young's ability does not translate well into the NFL, no matter how many coaches he works with. His game is always going to be run first, and with the fast and quick NFL defenses, he will have no where to go. He will turn out to be another Michael Vick (the Vick now, not before), where he has no arm and is plenty overated. He hasnt developed enough to be a good QB in the NFL. It should take him a good 6 or 7 years before he can become decent in the NFL. Learning all of the drops, and learning how to stay in the pocket and throw will not be an easy task for Vince. I mean realistically, without his running game, hes nothing. The only reason he threw well in college was because of his ability to run. When the NFL defenses realize they dont have to put 8 people in the box to stop the QB run, they can drop more into coverage. Vince Young is not a good QB.

Heed your own advice and be realistic.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Don't want to keep Quoting because it's getting so long, but I agree. I've seen a mock (Wood's?) where Young dropped to 4th. I know the Jets need a QB, but I could see any number of teams trading up to 4th with the Jets if D'Brick is gone. I also could see TEN deciding to get a QB elsewhere and trading down to get more picks with someone who has their eyes on Vince. The only team in the top 6 or 7 picks that I think is alomst guaranteed to go QB is New Orleans because they're getting rid of Brooks and they need a new face for the franchise and QBs are, in general, the face of a franchise.

Although I don't know the specifics of their cap situation or anything like that, I also think the Jets could be one of those teams trading up. They're in a good spot, 'cause they don't have to give up as much to get to a spot where they know they'll get who they want, and the team they trade with doesn't drop as much, making the deal sweeter for them. The other team could even trade again if they want. Imagine the Texans' haul if they traded down to 4 and then traded down again...

 

[matuski]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

 

[gman8343]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

A year from now is way too soon to judge how VY will turn out in the NFL.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

A year from now is way too soon to judge how VY will turn out in the NFL.

Exactly. Declaring any rookie qb "a monster bust" only proves one thing...that you're an idiot.

 

[MLBrandow]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

A year from now is way too soon to judge how VY will turn out in the NFL.

Exactly. Declaring any rookie qb "a monster bust" only proves one thing...that you're an idiot.

Where can I get this guy's money?

 

[matuski]

"Your an Idiot"

Hah... um ok you win? You have stopped me in my tracks with that one.

 

[rockbottom895]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

A year from now is way too soon to judge how VY will turn out in the NFL.

Exactly. Declaring any rookie qb "a monster bust" only proves one thing...that you're an idiot.

The hairy scotsman is obviously a huge fan of Vince Young. Can you please realize that he isnt good? If you think about it, which good defenses did Texas have to face besides Ohio State? Texas' schedule this year was very simple, and Vince did take advantage of that, but he WILL NOT TRANSLATE INTO A GOOD NFL QUARTERBACK! MLBrandow knows what hes saying, listen to him. Besides his mock draft (reggie not going first hahahahahaha), he is very intelligent on the topic of football. I will also like to bet you that Vince will be a MONSTER BUST in the NFL.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Let's not start this crap again.

 

[Billy Bats]

I'm no expert on the combine and haven't read the entire thread, but can someone tell me if guys like Manning, McNabb, Vick and Palmer decline to throw at the combine too? Just want to know if it's normal or not. Tia.

 

[Irish]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

A year from now is way too soon to judge how VY will turn out in the NFL.

Exactly. Declaring any rookie qb "a monster bust" only proves one thing...that you're an idiot.

The hairy scotsman is obviously a huge fan of Vince Young. Can you please realize that he isnt good? If you think about it, which good defenses did Texas have to face besides Ohio State? Texas' schedule this year was very simple, and Vince did take advantage of that, but he WILL NOT TRANSLATE INTO A GOOD NFL QUARTERBACK! MLBrandow knows what hes saying, listen to him. Besides his mock draft (reggie not going first hahahahahaha), he is very intelligent on the topic of football. I will also like to bet you that Vince will be a MONSTER BUST in the NFL.

When will people learn to never doubt VY? Besides being a freak althletically, he is a proven winner and natural born leader. Give him a year or two to adjust to the NFL and he'll prove all the doubters wrong once again.

 

[Chaos Commish]

When will people learn to never doubt VY? Besides being a freak althletically, he is a proven winner and natural born leader. Give him a year or two to adjust to the NFL and he'll prove all the doubters wrong once again.

 

[Donnybrook]

I did not read the entire thread but it looks like Lienart may also choose not to work out at the combine.

Combine notes:

Neither Vince Young of Texas nor Matt Leinart of USC are expected to throw or run at the NFL combine in Indianapolis this week. The top two quarterbacks in the draft will reserve their efforts for personal workouts later this spring. Their snubs give No. 3 passer Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt an opportunity to close the gap. Cutler gained some ground by being named most valuable player at the Senior Bowl. Frye earned the honor last season. . . . It could be a down year for the Mid-American Conference in the NFL draft. Only six players from the conference were invited to the combine - quarterback Omar Jacobs of Bowling Green; receiver Brandon Marshall of Central Florida; quarterback Kent Smith of Central Michigan; and defensive back Darrell Hunter, receiver Martin Nance and linebacker Tarna Nade. all of Miami of Ohio.

The Plain Dealer

 

[the hairy scotsman]

"Your an Idiot"

Hah... um ok you win? You have stopped me in my tracks with that one.

It was "you're an idiot" and I actually hadn't called you one, yet, since you hadn't actually done it, yet.

 

[Bevo]

I did not read the entire thread but it looks like Lienart may also choose not to work out at the combine.

Combine notes:

Neither Vince Young of Texas nor Matt Leinart of USC are expected to throw or run at the NFL combine in Indianapolis this week. The top two quarterbacks in the draft will reserve their efforts for personal workouts later this spring. Their snubs give No. 3 passer Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt an opportunity to close the gap. Cutler gained some ground by being named most valuable player at the Senior Bowl. Frye earned the honor last season. . . . It could be a down year for the Mid-American Conference in the NFL draft. Only six players from the conference were invited to the combine - quarterback Omar Jacobs of Bowling Green; receiver Brandon Marshall of Central Florida; quarterback Kent Smith of Central Michigan; and defensive back Darrell Hunter, receiver Martin Nance and linebacker Tarna Nade. all of Miami of Ohio.

The Plain Dealer

Leinert would be a fool to throw at the combine, there is no where ffor him to go but down if he does so. Same thing Young. Or Bush going and running the 40 or the shuttle. Any of them would be very foolish to perform any more except at their school pro day and perhaps a few select team's request (those with very high draft choices).

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

A year from now is way too soon to judge how VY will turn out in the NFL.

Exactly. Declaring any rookie qb "a monster bust" only proves one thing...that you're an idiot.

The hairy scotsman is obviously a huge fan of Vince Young. Can you please realize that he isnt good? If you think about it, which good defenses did Texas have to face besides Ohio State? Texas' schedule this year was very simple, and Vince did take advantage of that, but he WILL NOT TRANSLATE INTO A GOOD NFL QUARTERBACK! MLBrandow knows what hes saying, listen to him. Besides his mock draft (reggie not going first hahahahahaha), he is very intelligent on the topic of football. I will also like to bet you that Vince will be a MONSTER BUST in the NFL.

Then by your logic, Leinart "isnt good" either.LMAO.

You're hilarious.

(Sorry Construx. Had to be done.)

 

[SoloMatisse]

To all the fellas out there talking Vince Young down, Id just like to say thank you. Every good arguement needs 'another' side. Vince Young failing in the pros, imo, is the 'other' side. The one major difference between Young and Vick that will make all the difference in the Pros...and it is a MAJOR difference...and youll notice it if you ever see these two stand next to one another.....about 5 or 6 inches. This young buck just completed 30 of 40 on a national stage in a title game and gave you over 400 and several scores and beat a great team on its own turf. Mike Vick had his shot in the Sugar Bowl against Florida State several years ago in a title game. Young did what Vick couldnt do.....and thats a trend that will likely continue.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

To all the fellas out there talking Vince Young down, Id just like to say thank you. Every good arguement needs 'another' side. Vince Young failing in the pros, imo, is the 'other' side. The one major difference between Young and Vick that will make all the difference in the Pros...and it is a MAJOR difference...and youll notice it if you ever see these two stand next to one another.....about 5 or 6 inches. This young buck just completed 30 of 40 on a national stage in a title game and gave you over 400 and several scores and beat a great team on its own turf. Mike Vick had his shot in the Sugar Bowl against Florida State several years ago in a title game. Young did what Vick couldnt do.....and thats a trend that will likely continue.

Yes.

This is a point I've made over and over when people wanna say Young will be "just another Vick".

Vick: 6' 0", 215

Young: 6' 5"/6' 6" (depending on who you listen to), 240-245. I'm guessing he'll prolly fill out to around 250, 255 or so, and he's already bigger and faster than a lot of the guys trying to take him down. No wonder Carr ripped his team for poor open field tackling after the '05 Rose Bowl, then later retracted that after watching the film.

Many folks, including me, think he's a better passer and more of a qb than Vick right now. Mel Kiper said same when on Cowherd.

 

[Hawk]

I can't wait till a year form now when we can stop speculating.

My money says he's a monster bust.

I don't think anyone here thinks VY is going to set the NFL on fire his rookie season. I think he'll struggle at first like MOST rookie QB's. He needs to adjust to a new offensive scheme, to having less time to read defenses and make decisions, and to working under center rather than from the shotgun. I would expect a progression similar to college where he made awe-inspiring plays with his legs pretty consistently, but struggled for the first season and half the second in the passing game before finding his comfort zone. He obviously kicked ### his 3rd year of college. By his mid-second to third season as an NFL starter, I predict he'll be very good and I would make that bet with anyone. And ConstruxBoy, I don't think I said exactly what you attributed to me, but I didn't have time to re-read the whole thread. Bottom line, I think the odds are that not throwing at the combine will have a positive effect for VY when it is all said and done. Maybe it casts some initial doubts, but there is also the chance that he could be picked at and picked at for weeks after throwing in such a public forum, and that would hurt him too. He doesn't have a pretty throwing motion, so people will just tear him down. That's what happens with NFL draft prospects, people obsess on their faults rather than seeing the huge positives that outweigh the faults. Once he has worked out at UT and privately for teams, none of them are going to care any longer whether he threw at the combine. They'll decide based on his actual workouts. So I think that is a better approach for VY and has the lowest risk of hurting his draft status overall. Disagree if you want.

And Rockbottom, if you don't think VY is good because he didn't play good defenses in college, then you are a clueless as they come. Of course you also said Vick has no arm, so you have pretty much established that you don't know crap.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

You're probably correct Hawk. I think my main point was that there was a greater chance that it COULD hurt him based on the following:

Normal top prospect approach:

"He's busying preparing himself for the NFL and you'll see him at his Pro Day"

Vince Young approach:

"He's throwing at the combine"

Throws at the skills competition

"He's NOT throwing at the combine because of the unfamiliar surroundings and receivers"

Just sloppily done. But I'm becoming more convinced by you guys that it won't matter.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

You're probably correct Hawk. I think my main point was that there was a greater chance that it COULD hurt him based on the following:

Normal top prospect approach:

"He's busying preparing himself for the NFL and you'll see him at his Pro Day"

Vince Young approach:

"He's throwing at the combine"

Throws at the skills competition

"He's NOT throwing at the combine because of the unfamiliar surroundings and receivers"

Just sloppily done. But I'm becoming more convinced by you guys that it won't matter.

Agree that it was sloppily handled but probably won't be enough of an issue to affect his draft position.

 

[Hawk]

I agree, sloppily handled, and that certainly can't help his cause.

The only real concern I have about Vince right now is that I think he made a bad choice of agents and that is coming through. I sure hope he avoids a Ricky Williams scenario.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

The Texans now have an article re: Vince Young on their team website @ houstontexans.com .

And perhaps the Houston native will don the cap of his hometown team, although Young indicated Friday that he's not concerned which team drafts him. Either that or he's a really good poker player.

“I'm going to continue to be me,” Young said. “I'm not going to change anything. A lot of coaches told me 'Don't change anything, continue being yourself and winning ballgames.' And that's what I'm going to continue to do.

As the NFL regular season wound down and Young was preparing for the Rose Bowl, Bush appeared to be the consensus choice as the top overall pick. But Young’s electrifying performance against USC, in which he rushed for 200 yards and three touchdowns and threw for 267 yards, put him squarely in the mix. The fact that the Texans own that top pick has only increased the debate.

(Let’s just say we’ve received a few e-mails…)

“When I was a freshman, I just went out and tried to use my ability,” Young said. “Now it's more than that. You've got to learn the game. You've got to put more work in and you have to do what it takes to help win ballgames for your teammates.”