Vincent Jackson to Report to Chargers October 31 (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't think any of this is really new news. We all knew there was a possibility of him reporting to get his year in. The popular thought if that happened would be that AJ would "Keyshawn him". I still see that is more of a possibility than him playing for the lowered tender. I do not expect him to risk injury for a few grand when he has millions on the line. This will go to the courts or an arbitrator before that happens.

What would he tell the courts? What exactly would his position be?

There seems to be some contractual ambiguity in the current CBA. Jackson has thought all along he would be a UFA next year (without reporting). The Chargers have always believed he would be an RFA. The news that broke today seems to be the NFLPA saying, "you may end up being an RFA next year and it is best to report". Reports have been out lately that the NFLPA and the NFL are pretty far apart on some items in the negotiations for the new CBA. It is very likely that the NFLPA does not really need the headache of two individual players contracts during the fragile negotiations. If Jackson does not show up, you would think they are sure to land in front of an arbitrator or court.

There's no ambiguity in the current CBA. (Jackson would be an RFA again.)The ambiguity is that nobody knows what the next CBA will say. No arbitrator or court can resolve that.

The next CBA is being renegotiated and I understand that it can change. Here is your post from Aug 29th: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=12211663Your post stated that if Jackson does not want to be stuck in the RFA category, he would only have to report by "November 16, the NFL signing deadline. If he does report November 16 (or November 9 for the Chargers' bye week), he would be eligible to play the final four games of the season in weeks 14-17." Reports out right now are all focusing on the "season accrual" issue. Is this not a moot point? If he signs it is likely to be for the fewest games possible, not earn the year of accrual, but move from signed player to UFA status at season end. Has this changed?

Also, if he signed and was only eligible for weeks 14-17, I doubt they work him into the lineup very much at all. Would you agree with this? Do you kick Floyd out of the X receiver role when he is playing fantastic football?

The post also brings up the point that the franchise tag may still be an option for the Chargers next year.

There are two issues. Under the current CBA, a player needs six accrued seasons in an uncapped year in order to be an unrestricted free agent. Regardless of whether it's an uncapped year, he also needs to have not sat out the entire previous year (if he was made a qualifying tender).If there's no new CBA and no strike or lockout, the current CBA will still apply, and 2011 will be another uncapped year.

More likely, however, if there's a 2011 season, there will be a new CBA.

A new CBA will very likely turn the six-year requirement back to four years (while re-instituting a salary cap). So VJ would probably be okay regard to the first issue.

On the other hand, a new CBA very well might retain the provision stating that to be an unrestricted free agent, you can't have sat out the whole previous season (if you were offered a qualifying tender).

So Jackson needs to report by Oct 31 to get an accrued season, and he needs to report by Nov 16 to avoid sitting out the year.

Depending on what happens with the CBA negotiations, either one of those dates could be the magic one determining whether he's restricted or unrestricted. So reporting by Oct 31 is the safe move.

(Since he'll get to practice for three weeks before being eligible to play, I do think they'll insert him to the lineup as soon as he is eligible — same as they are doing with McNeill. I don't know whether he'd be the X or Z, or whether it really matters. It just gives Norv an extra option, either way.)

 

[Touchdown There]

Since he'll get to practice for three weeks before being eligible to play, I do think they'll insert him to the lineup as soon as he is eligible — same as they are doing with McNeill. I don't know whether he'd be the X or Z, or whether it really matters. It just gives Norv an extra option, either way.

Different situation than McNeil, IMO. McNeil is a long term solution and has a long term contract now. He is also much better than the next best tackle. Not true for Vincent Jackson. If they cannot patch things up with VJax, then he is not the long term solution. He is only showing up to earn the UFA. With the way that Floyd is producing , I do not see VJax starting at the X (the position I regard as fantasy gold on the Chargers offense).In the 1 ppr league I mentioned before, Floyd is the #8 WR right now. I looked up the 2009 stats and Vincent Jackson ended the season as the 13th best WR. If you want to look at production specifically, Floyd is more productive and has earned his role.

The interest here is fantasy football implications. So many people have rostered Vincent Jackson up to this point in the hopes that he signs, disregarding the very real possibility that he will play a reduced role in this offense and provide depth. If he signs, which he has not yet done, it is my opinion that it will have very negative fantasy impacts for both the owners of Floyd and Vincent Jackson (with the exception of Floyd retaining the X and Jackson being handed the Z). Then Floyd's number may remain the same, but the expectations for VJax should be tempered with a different role on the offense. All of this would be just in time for fantasy playoffs. Very positive depth and impact for the Chargers as a NFL team, not so much for fantasy football.

 

[Otis]

I've always thought he was overrated.

He's never broken 1200 yards.

He's never broken 70 catches.

He's never had double-digit TDs.

And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.

By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

 

[Touchdown There]

He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I agree. The argument can be made that a wide receiver with above average talent in the X receiver role for the Chargers (and Philip Rivers at QB) will end up as a low #1 to high #2 WR. Having the name Vincent Jackson is optional.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I've always thought he was overrated.He's never broken 1200 yards.He's never broken 70 catches.He's never had double-digit TDs.And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

 

[BoltBacker]

That's what I don't understand. People seem to be trying to make this situation more murky that it is(or ever was). We have no idea what a future CBA will look like, but until then it's pretty black and white.

But then again I still don't understand why some people seem convinced the owners are going to cave on much of anything in the next CBA. Owners have a long career ahead of them cashing network TV checks. Players have a very short career and they will only be making that career shorter if there's a work stoppage so it's the players that have much more pressure on them to agree to the CBA quickly.

Because they don't want to leave a billion dollars on the table. I'm sure the owners are going to request in rookie wage scale. For the players to give in to this they are going to need a concession on how long it takes to be a FA, as well as tweaking things like the franchise tag, transitional tag, and restricted free agency. Those issues go hand-in-hand with a rookie wage scale.

I hear this all the time and still don't understand it.How is a rookie wage scale good for the owners? A rookie wage scale is good for the NFLPA. If there's a salary cap why would the owners care if rookies are being overpaid and vets are being underpaid because of it?

 

[Touchdown There]

I've always thought he was overrated.

He's never broken 1200 yards.

He's never broken 70 catches.

He's never had double-digit TDs.

And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.

By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Quote from: http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal..._legedu_naa.php"While he managed a modest 24 receptions for 242 yards and two touchdowns in 15 appearances, Naanee was outstandingly efficient. His 88.9% catch rate led the league among qualifying receivers. Naanee dropped just one of his 27 targets, and paced the Chargers in yards-after-catch average."

Naanee did more with his targets than Vincent Jackson in 2009. That is just one example from a guy on the same team.

 

[Otis]

I've always thought he was overrated.He's never broken 1200 yards.He's never broken 70 catches.He's never had double-digit TDs.And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Does that matter, for NFL statistical purposes or fantasy purposes?He's been in the league 6 years and never reached any of the above milestones. I would be curious if Chase could hit up the Drinen database and tell us how many NFL WRs never reached even one of the above three milestones in their first six seasons out of school and yet thereafter went on to become top NFL or fantasy WRs. I bet the answer will be one of either "not many" or "none."

 

[Otis]

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Naanee did more with his targets than Vincent Jackson in 2009. That is just one example from a guy on the same team.

Sick ownage.

 

[BoltBacker]

That's what I don't understand. People seem to be trying to make this situation more murky that it is(or ever was). We have no idea what a future CBA will look like, but until then it's pretty black and white.

But then again I still don't understand why some people seem convinced the owners are going to cave on much of anything in the next CBA. Owners have a long career ahead of them cashing network TV checks. Players have a very short career and they will only be making that career shorter if there's a work stoppage so it's the players that have much more pressure on them to agree to the CBA quickly.

Because they don't want to leave a billion dollars on the table.

From your own link, the fight is over 18% in the middle of a $9 BILLION pie. That's ~$1.5billion per year. Yeah, I'd leave a billion on the table if I can get anywhere close to $1.5billion for several years thereafter. I'm of the opinion that the owners are in a better fiscal position to wait out a dispute than your AVERAGE NFL player. Sure there is a handful of guys that have a big signing bonus sitting in the bank but I don't think that's the vast majority of players.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I've always thought he was overrated.

He's never broken 1200 yards.

He's never broken 70 catches.

He's never had double-digit TDs.

And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.

By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Quote from: http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal..._legedu_naa.php"While he managed a modest 24 receptions for 242 yards and two touchdowns in 15 appearances, Naanee was outstandingly efficient. His 88.9% catch rate led the league among qualifying receivers. Naanee dropped just one of his 27 targets, and paced the Chargers in yards-after-catch average."

Naanee did more with his targets than Vincent Jackson in 2009. That is just one example from a guy on the same team.

Umm yeah, thought it was obvious i was talking about top flite WRs. Guess not. Im sure there are plenty of guys out there with a couple hundred yards on 20 targets. I mean one 80 yard catch on one target would make you extremely efficient but not exactly meaningful

 

[Touchdown There]

I've always thought he was overrated.

He's never broken 1200 yards.

He's never broken 70 catches.

He's never had double-digit TDs.

And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.

By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Quote from: http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal..._legedu_naa.php"While he managed a modest 24 receptions for 242 yards and two touchdowns in 15 appearances, Naanee was outstandingly efficient. His 88.9% catch rate led the league among qualifying receivers. Naanee dropped just one of his 27 targets, and paced the Chargers in yards-after-catch average."

Naanee did more with his targets than Vincent Jackson in 2009. That is just one example from a guy on the same team.

Umm yeah, thought it was obvious i was talking about top flite WRs. Guess not.

We are. Naanee is not "top flight" and neither is Vincent Jackson. Floyd and Vincent Jackson are both just outside of "top flight". Low end #2 to high end #1. However, you were discussing efficiency.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I've always thought he was overrated.

He's never broken 1200 yards.

He's never broken 70 catches.

He's never had double-digit TDs.

And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.

By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Quote from: http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal..._legedu_naa.php"While he managed a modest 24 receptions for 242 yards and two touchdowns in 15 appearances, Naanee was outstandingly efficient. His 88.9% catch rate led the league among qualifying receivers. Naanee dropped just one of his 27 targets, and paced the Chargers in yards-after-catch average."

Naanee did more with his targets than Vincent Jackson in 2009. That is just one example from a guy on the same team.

Umm yeah, thought it was obvious i was talking about top flite WRs. Guess not.

We are. Naanee is not "top flight" and neither is Vincent Jackson. Floyd and Vincent Jackson are both just outside of "top flight". Low end #2 to high end #1. However, you were discussing efficiency.

Vjax passes the elite eyeball test to me. Big difference between efficiency at 200 yards and 1200 yards.

 

[Shawnky]

I've always thought he was overrated.He's never broken 1200 yards.He's never broken 70 catches.He's never had double-digit TDs.And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

He was a top 10 WR last year. If that's not elite, then what is? Rivers is elite which helps his case. Seems like you might be a little bitter about trading him do to this news.

 

[The Jerk]

I've always thought he was overrated.He's never broken 1200 yards.He's never broken 70 catches.He's never had double-digit TDs.And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Does that matter, for NFL statistical purposes or fantasy purposes?He's been in the league 6 years and never reached any of the above milestones. I would be curious if Chase could hit up the Drinen database and tell us how many NFL WRs never reached even one of the above three milestones in their first six seasons out of school and yet thereafter went on to become top NFL or fantasy WRs. I bet the answer will be one of either "not many" or "none."

If you want legitimate debate, you should probably acknowledge that Jackson did not have much of a chance to put up numbers his first two seasons, so we're really looking at only three seasons -- as surely you can't be counting this year, right? So it's only 2007-2009 that are worthy of comparison.Now, of the three stats you list, receptions are the least significant to the majority of leagues. Obviously, if you're looking only at ppr, then it's different. But I can tell you that Andre Johnson took until his sixth year to exceed 1200 yards and it's looking like 2010 will be his 8th season of single-digit TDs. So I'd be careful not to get too excited about how many NFL receivers haven't hit milestones.You also should consider the circumstances. How many receivers have Antonio Gates around to deflate their statistics, in particular the number of receptions and TDs? How might AJ himself do if he had a Gates as a teammate?I completely agree that Vincent Jackson at best approaches low WR1 territory, but I don't think his career statistics say what you think they say. If anything, the continued improvement of Jackson's numbers in all three categories -- receptions, yards, TDs -- is a trajectory that makes me excited for his future, not concerned over how long it took him to get to his current status. Of course, that was prior to this season's inactivity.

 

[shortbow]

I've always thought he was overrated.He's never broken 1200 yards.He's never broken 70 catches.He's never had double-digit TDs.And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

He was a top 10 WR last year. If that's not elite, then what is? Rivers is elite which helps his case. Seems like you might be a little bitter about trading him do to this news.

Hes got the Tools and the Skills to grow into a stud WR, hes still young, but hes fast, tall and has great hands.Hes top 10 for sure potentially #1

 

[Tau837]

I've always thought he was overrated.

He's never broken 1200 yards.

He's never broken 70 catches.

He's never had double-digit TDs.

And yet everyone always seems to treat him like a top-10 dynasty WR.

By the way, I recently traded for him way on the cheap, but I never would have ponied up what his perceived value was preseason. He's not an elite NFL receiver.

I cant think of another WR who has done more with the number of targets he got.

Quote from: http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal..._legedu_naa.php"While he managed a modest 24 receptions for 242 yards and two touchdowns in 15 appearances, Naanee was outstandingly efficient. His 88.9% catch rate led the league among qualifying receivers. Naanee dropped just one of his 27 targets, and paced the Chargers in yards-after-catch average."

Naanee did more with his targets than Vincent Jackson in 2009. That is just one example from a guy on the same team.

Wrong. Jackson was much more productive than Naanee:Jackson: 1167/9 on 107 targets = 1.6 points per target

Naanee: 242/2 receiving on 27 targets = 1.3 ppt

 

[Breesisdaman]

VJax elite? I own Andre Johnson, Hakim Nicks, Percy Harvin, Terrell Owens and Greg Jennings in my 12 man redraft league. and we start 3 WR. In spite of that line up I dropped MBIII and grabbed VJax last night on waivers. Yes I do think he will be huge in the final stretch otherwise I would drop him for Kenny Britt right now. Not happening.

 

[Bri]

Hurt by Thanksgiving

The question I'd like to know is when can he play? Report says he'll report by the 31st of October. Does that mean he could report well before then? Like, this week?

nov. 28 vs. indy will be his 1st chance to play

I guess he'll get injured in practice?:dunno:

I haven't seen that but I have admittedly developed less and less of an interest in Jackson the last several weeks and become almost numb of it all.These long ugly holdouts and the predictability of eventual injuries has always been a grrr thing for FF though. IMO The best move for FF is getting him off the WW and trading him.

yeah this was hard to predict.