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voting receipts (1 Viewer)

D

Ditkaless Wonders

Footballguy
We live in a computer world. Mastercard and Visa handle billions of transactions a day, every day, and they keep track of them.  They can tell me where, when, and how much I spent on gas and lunch today and what I buy for dinner tonight.  I can find out from them, through a request for a report what they believe my transactions were and I can compare those to receipts I might retain.

The market can tack and record, with certainty and verification any and all trades I might make today and the same for millions of others. 

Why can't I get the same when I vote.  Why can't I have a unique voting I.D., coupled with a unique private account number.  Why, when I vote cannot I receive a receipt that my vote has registered and been properly recorded.  Why can't I, if I have the receipt and voter I.D. number look up on line to see that my vote has been accurately recorded?

We have the technology.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
We live in a computer world. Mastercard and Visa handle billions of transactions a day, every day, and they keep track of them.  They can tell me where, when, and how much I spent on gas and lunch today and what I buy for dinner tonight.  I can find out from them, through a request for a report what they believe my transactions were and I can compare those to receipts I might retain.

The market can tack and record, with certainty and verification any and all trades I might make today and the same for millions of others. 

Why can't I get the same when I vote.  Why can't I have a unique voting I.D., coupled with a unique private account number.  Why, when I vote cannot I receive a receipt that my vote has registered and been properly recorded.  Why can't I, if I have the receipt and voter I.D. number look up on line to see that my vote has been accurately recorded?

We have the technology.
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that would require a unique voter ID number, which would probably require an ID, and we all know voter ID requirements are inherently racist so that makes me question what you are trying to accomplish here.

ETA: sarcasm doesn't always come thru on the internet -  :sarcasm:

 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
Why can't I get the same when I vote.  Why can't I have a unique voting I.D., coupled with a unique private account number.  Why, when I vote cannot I receive a receipt that my vote has registered and been properly recorded.  Why can't I, if I have the receipt and voter I.D. number look up on line to see that my vote has been accurately recorded?

We have the technology.
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If proof existed, it could facilitate buying and/or coercion of votes.

 
A receipt just tells you what the store is claiming about the transaction. The important thing is that the store receipt matches your bank records. That's where the verification is. 

 
My polling place shows the actual printed ballot in a window for you to approve or reject before completing your vote. They don't all do this?

 
One could even set up the voter ID card to BE a credit card. Could literally be done via the same system with card swipers at the polling places, except that it's not tied to any financials. Same tracking system, "purchase" history, etc.

DW in 2020!!!

 
My parents volunteer at voting locations in their town on election days. Amazingly, some of the voting tabulation is done by hand. I will have to double check with my father, but they do final tabulations with double checking by hand.

We have the technology.

 
This seems like one of those ideas seems a bit too smart to not have been done already.

Every time I've voted, I've slid the paper ballot into the machine and who in the hell knows what got counted thereafter.  I've never had a confirmation that TheAristocrat voted for This, That, and The Other Candidate for These Positions.  I think that'd be great.  Especially if I could verify it somewhere the day after, the month after, or years after the election.

 
IIRC in AZ when i early vote i can go online and make sure it was recorded. I could be wrong but i seem to remember that. 

 
dgreen said:
A receipt just tells you what the store is claiming about the transaction. The important thing is that the store receipt matches your bank records. That's where the verification is. 
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But you'd at least have an audit trail to match the reporting with the receipt

 
Walking Boot said:
Just because the screen or printed ballot says something, doesn't mean it's actually counted that way.
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Neither does a receipt.

I guess I don't see how millions of people are going to verify their votes were counted correctly with their printed receipts after an election.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
We live in a computer world. Mastercard and Visa handle billions of transactions a day, every day, and they keep track of them.  They can tell me where, when, and how much I spent on gas and lunch today and what I buy for dinner tonight.  I can find out from them, through a request for a report what they believe my transactions were and I can compare those to receipts I might retain.

The market can tack and record, with certainty and verification any and all trades I might make today and the same for millions of others. 

Why can't I get the same when I vote.  Why can't I have a unique voting I.D., coupled with a unique private account number.  Why, when I vote cannot I receive a receipt that my vote has registered and been properly recorded.  Why can't I, if I have the receipt and voter I.D. number look up on line to see that my vote has been accurately recorded?

We have the technology.
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You can, but that would remove one of the mythical :hophead:  points the establishment type guys like to :hophead:  about.  It's not fair to them.

 
Walking Boot said:
That's why you check a receipt against the posted count and totals.

Enough people report errors and people can look into it.
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I guess I don't see how this works. I wake up. My candidate lost the election. I take my receipt to ... the receipt-checking office? And the idea here is that they check my receipt and find out my vote was counted incorrectly? And this is going to happen on such a large scale that there will be a recount or something using everyone's vote receipts?

 
I just find it hard to believe that they're showing me a fake printed ballot at the polling station and after I leave a different one gets submitted in my name.

 
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Walking Boot said:
Did you read my post? You check online, just like you can now, to get the results. The state website, the day after every election, lists district totals. I do this all the time to see who won my local races (the stuff not covered by the news, like assemblyman, judge, etc.). All I'm saying is that, in addition to that functionality that's already there, when you vote, the machine prints out a receipt and you can take it home and look that up online, too.

Say you vote in the race for mayor. You vote Guy A, and get receipt #007. You can go home, go to your district website, and see that receipt #007 was counted as a vote for Guy A. No problem. If you see it's a vote for Guy B, you can call the newspaper and the election office and let them know the count is wrong and get it fixed.
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Why not just show the person ballot #007 right there in the polling place so they can fix it before it's cast? 

 
But how can they stuff ballot boxes if only one person can vote once? I guess the dead could still get a receipt.

 
Walking Boot said:
Because the fraud could occur later in the count. What you see at the polling place could be one thing, but what the counters determine later could be different. You want secure counts from beginning to end in the process.

What I want to prevent is a situation where you vote for Guy A, the screen says you voted for Guy A, the receipt says you voted for Guy A, yet at 2AM doing the roll, the city comptroller's cousin changes the votes or adds extra votes so his college roommate wins a judgeship. This stuff happens.
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So the receipt would be real and the ballot would be real but the ballot gets switched later in the process? This seems far fetched. And if votes are added later, a receipt is not going to catch that.

 
If you're concern is that your vote got recorded correctly, I suspect there isn't a tangible way to quench your conspiracy theory.  If your concern is getting the vote out to more people, it's a no brainer to go digital.  It's way past due.

 
The problem with this is that it would require making voting easy, and the GOP is more concerned with voter suppression.

 
tone1oc said:
The problem with this is that it would require making voting easy, and the GOP is more concerned with voter suppression.
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It may be naive of me but I won't completely believe this, at least about everyday Republicans, until an average Joe GOPer tells me this himself. I believe that all of us who aren't actually in the election business want honest elections. In a country that routinely processes billions of commercial transactions daily, it amazes me that we can't get this right. 

I hope this sentiment doesn't get me thrown out of the Trump-bashers club because I really enjoy my membership there.

 
we should definitely automate voting. put it all in the hands of computers to record and register.

computers are impervious to intrusion. no one would ever spend time trying to crack the security. to suggest it possible is impossible. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
It may be naive of me but I won't completely believe this, at least about everyday Republicans, until an average Joe GOPer tells me this himself. I believe that all of us who aren't actually in the election business want honest elections. In a country that routinely processes billions of commercial transactions daily, it amazes me that we can't get this right. 

I hope this sentiment doesn't get me thrown out of the Trump-bashers club because I really enjoy my membership there.
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I think you are being naive.  There is swathes of GOP sponsored legislation around the country designed at making it more difficult for people to vote and the NC SC just ruled that in that state they were. 

Also, I'm not in any club.  

 
mr. furley said:
we should definitely automate voting. put it all in the hands of computers to record and register.

computers are impervious to intrusion. no one would ever spend time trying to crack the security. to suggest it possible is impossible. 
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Hence the need for the paper receipt so that there is a check in place to prevent the sort of thing you are suggesting

 
Rove! said:
Hence the need for the paper receipt so that there is a check in place to prevent the sort of thing you are suggesting
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holy ####, imagine the lines when the toner runs out/paper jams/grandma jams her credit card in the receipt slot

our new printer/fax machine at the office can barely function for a few days at a time running 50 prints a day. 

 
tone1oc said:
I think you are being naive.  There is swathes of GOP sponsored legislation around the country designed at making it more difficult for people to vote and the NC SC just ruled that in that state they were. 

Also, I'm not in any club.  
Click to expand...
I guess I'm talking more about people who aren't actually in or active in the party. I really don't think any of our Republican FBGs would condone legal measures designed to limit voting by minorities. Though it might be 50-50 if we had a debate about letting paroled felons vote.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I guess I'm talking more about people who aren't actually in or active in the party. I really don't think any of our Republican FBGs would condone legal measures designed to limit voting by minorities. Though it might be 50-50 if we had a debate about letting paroled felons vote.
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Yeah, I'm talking about actual lawmakers making laws and also gerrymandering to influence results. 

 
mr. furley said:
holy ####, imagine the lines when the toner runs out/paper jams/grandma jams her credit card in the receipt slot

our new printer/fax machine at the office can barely function for a few days at a time running 50 prints a day. 
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Happens every other day at the grocery store....

 
tone1oc said:
Yeah, I'm talking about actual lawmakers making laws and also gerrymandering to influence results. 
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That absolutely goes on, NC just being the most recently exposed of the bad apples. 

But I don't think average Joe condones any of that crap. I think we all want honest elections with everyone who is qualified able to vote. We can do this. It's not magic, it's just effing computer work.

 
Walking Boot said:
To me, going district by district wherever the problem is, this is still better than: "Guys, we've got a problem. We have 10,000 votes in a city with 8,000 people. But, let's just validate the total and go home. There's nothing we can do about it." 
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Still not sure why you'd need receipts to identify this problem.

 
Rove! said:
Happens every other day at the grocery store....
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right, i use self-checkout. half of the stations are down. the other half are being used by befuddled geriartrics peering at the screen like confused 9 year old boys looking at the Sears catalog's ladies underwear section. 

 
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Walking Boot said:
The problem isn't identifying it when it happens. It's what you do after you find out. Right now, if there are more votes than people, nothing happens. The result stands as is. There's no recourse.

At least, if we numbered the ballots, we'd know that numbers #8000 through #10000 were bogus. Even this we don't do.
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I haven't heard of this happening.

 
Walking Boot said:
To me, going district by district wherever the problem is, this is still better than: "Guys, we've got a problem. We have 10,000 votes in a city with 8,000 people. But, let's just validate the total and go home. There's nothing we can do about it." 
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in all honesty it would be more like "there are 8000 people in the city, 4000 are eligible to vote, 674 turned out and we have 672 receipts"

not "we have 20% over voting". anywhere. ever.

 
tone1oc said:
I think you are being naive.  There is swathes of GOP sponsored legislation around the country designed at making it more difficult for people to vote and the NC SC just ruled that in that state they were. 

Also, I'm not in any club.  
Click to expand...
Negative.  Ensuring the integrity of the process is not an inherent form of racism, despite your delusional cries that it is.

 
Putting this system in place wouldn't be cheap and there would be a ton of people confused/annoyed at the change.  That being said, this needs to be done.  I think it should go as far as allowing me to vote at home.  If I preregister and have spent some extra time proving I am who I say I am, I should get an online account associated with my SSN that allows me to vote online.  There would be some renewal/verification process every few years, and folks could still do it the old fashioned way if they so choose to over the next see as whole it was phased out.

 
mr. furley said:
right, i use self-checkout. half of the stations are down. the other half are being used by befuddled geriartrics peering at the screen like confused 9 year old boys looking at the Sears catalog's ladies underwear section. 
Click to expand...
Did you see this year's edition?  Wowza!

 
captain_amazing said:
Putting this system in place wouldn't be cheap and there would be a ton of people confused/annoyed at the change.  That being said, this needs to be done.  I think it should go as far as allowing me to vote at home.  If I preregister and have spent some extra time proving I am who I say I am, I should get an online account associated with my SSN that allows me to vote online.  There would be some renewal/verification process every few years, and folks could still do it the old fashioned way if they so choose to over the next see as whole it was phased out.
Click to expand...
Making someone confused is a form of racism since it hinders their ability to vote properly.

 
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