Walmart Makes it Official: Thanksgiving Is Dead (1 Viewer)

[RCon]

He posted that people being forced to work on what was a paid holiday is akin to the slaves being freed.

Reading comprehension down?

Freeing the slaves was good, making people work that would have been paid any way, is bad.

Have fun sitting by yourself on 11/28 wondering why nobody likes you.

Lots of people like me. You don't, simply because you confuse basic logic with attacks on your identity.

 

[Apple Jack]

This just got really weird.

 

[TheIronSheik]

He posted that people being forced to work on what was a paid holiday is akin to the slaves being freed.

Reading comprehension down?

Freeing the slaves was good, making people work that would have been paid any way, is bad.

Have fun sitting by yourself on 11/28 wondering why nobody likes you.

Lots of people like me. And we hang out all of the time. We usually talk about how we wished that poor people had to work the holidays that we had off.

 

[Limp Ditka]

He posted that people being forced to work on what was a paid holiday is akin to the slaves being freed.

Reading comprehension down?

Freeing the slaves was good, making people work that would have been paid any way, is bad.

Have fun sitting by yourself on 11/28 wondering why nobody likes you.

Lots of people like me. And we hang out all of the time. We usually talk about how we wished that poor people had to work the holidays that we had off.

hoping there's room in this circle..

pm sent.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

For that reason, I support a national blue law from 6am Thanksgiving morning until 6am the day after thanksgiving. The bargains will still be there, and maybe some people would get to enjoy a courtesy that was once so common sense you didn't need to legislate for it.

Except you don't support a national blue law. You support one with certain exceptions that you've defined. I'm assuming you're still allowing beer, hot dogs, etc. at the football games to be sold? Gas and coffee on the way to the stadium? Tickets at the stadium window?What makes your list of exceptions more valid than mine or Walmart's?

Retail, employees a lot more people than a couple of football games. Millions more. Plus it's a tradition in Dallas and Detroit to host the games every year. If you watch the games, you might notice that they quite enjoy having the honor. If you want to argue about the newly added night game, fine.

You are either one of the aforementioned losers that nobody wants to hang around on Thanksgiving or an elitist that thinks it is okay for you to have a day off while "those people" work.

Just out of curiosity, are you in the Retail industry?

No

Are you employed, sir?

 

[Mr. Cross]

He posted that people being forced to work on what was a paid holiday is akin to the slaves being freed.

Reading comprehension down?

Freeing the slaves was good, making people work that would have been paid any way, is bad.

Have fun sitting by yourself on 11/28 wondering why nobody likes you.

Lots of people like me.

I'm sure they can all testify to the fact that you are having sex with a girl from the Niagara Falls area.

Make sure your Hoveround is fully charged so you don't miss out on any of the good deals on Thanksgiving.

 

[Mr. Cross]

For that reason, I support a national blue law from 6am Thanksgiving morning until 6am the day after thanksgiving. The bargains will still be there, and maybe some people would get to enjoy a courtesy that was once so common sense you didn't need to legislate for it.

Except you don't support a national blue law. You support one with certain exceptions that you've defined. I'm assuming you're still allowing beer, hot dogs, etc. at the football games to be sold? Gas and coffee on the way to the stadium? Tickets at the stadium window?What makes your list of exceptions more valid than mine or Walmart's?

Retail, employees a lot more people than a couple of football games. Millions more. Plus it's a tradition in Dallas and Detroit to host the games every year. If you watch the games, you might notice that they quite enjoy having the honor. If you want to argue about the newly added night game, fine.

You are either one of the aforementioned losers that nobody wants to hang around on Thanksgiving or an elitist that thinks it is okay for you to have a day off while "those people" work.

Just out of curiosity, are you in the Retail industry?

No

Are you employed, sir?

Yes

 

[Smack Tripper]

As I posted in a previous thread on this topic...



Lots of jobs require people to work holidays. My local supermarket is open on almost every big holiday, for at least a portion of the day. Lifeguards are required to work on Memorial Day, July 4th, and Labor Day. Referees, chain gangs, ticket takers, hot dog vendors, parking garage workers, etc. are all required to work the big Thanksgiving football games that we love so much. IT professionals are often required to work three day weekends to do conversions or upgrades during downtime.

Why are we mad about this particular one?

Because this change is happening now.Emergency, essential personnel, docs, nurses, firemen, police, military, realize that holiday work is a term of service. Ditto those that sign up for life guarding. Thanksgiving football is also an established tradition.

This is a new trend and I rarely meet anyone outward excited by it. Retail is the most common occupation in America. You're taking about fragments of employees and looking at a much broader and substantial change for people that will see little, financially, for their surrendering of a holiday that was considered pretty untouchable based on its secular status

So, essentially, this is bad because change is bad? As long as worker A has been required to work holiday Z for more than N years, it's fine. When the first Thanksgiving NFL game was scheduled, should we have been upset about it? How many years is N, where we can begin saying "it's tradition" rather than "those #######s"?

Yes because those workers understood the terms if service when they agreed to their occupation.

Good news, though. If they don't want to work holidays they can find a new job. Yay, America!

Unlikely. You do realize a huge part of the American labor market is employed in retail right? You couldn't employ the displaced.

Me? No, I definitely couldn't employ the displaced. Maybe a couple, but that's about it.

If we support free will and free choice, why are workers not free to take a day off without penalty?

Personally, I would support a national blue law from 6am local time Thanksgiving morning for 24 hours in which only essential items and food are available for sale.

Why aren't workers allowed to murder co-workers either? Just the man trying to keep us down, I guess. Thanks a lot, Obama.

People wonder why there are no conservative comedians....

 

[Smack Tripper]

As I posted in a previous thread on this topic...



Lots of jobs require people to work holidays. My local supermarket is open on almost every big holiday, for at least a portion of the day. Lifeguards are required to work on Memorial Day, July 4th, and Labor Day. Referees, chain gangs, ticket takers, hot dog vendors, parking garage workers, etc. are all required to work the big Thanksgiving football games that we love so much. IT professionals are often required to work three day weekends to do conversions or upgrades during downtime.

Why are we mad about this particular one?

Because this change is happening now.Emergency, essential personnel, docs, nurses, firemen, police, military, realize that holiday work is a term of service. Ditto those that sign up for life guarding. Thanksgiving football is also an established tradition.

This is a new trend and I rarely meet anyone outward excited by it. Retail is the most common occupation in America. You're taking about fragments of employees and looking at a much broader and substantial change for people that will see little, financially, for their surrendering of a holiday that was considered pretty untouchable based on its secular status

So, essentially, this is bad because change is bad? As long as worker A has been required to work holiday Z for more than N years, it's fine. When the first Thanksgiving NFL game was scheduled, should we have been upset about it? How many years is N, where we can begin saying "it's tradition" rather than "those #######s"?

Yes because those workers understood the terms if service when they agreed to their occupation.

Good news, though. If they don't want to work holidays they can find a new job. Yay, America!

Unlikely. You do realize a huge part of the American labor market is employed in retail right? You couldn't employ the displaced.

Me? No, I definitely couldn't employ the displaced. Maybe a couple, but that's about it.

If we support free will and free choice, why are workers not free to take a day off without penalty?

Personally, I would support a national blue law from 6am local time Thanksgiving morning for 24 hours in which only essential items and food are available for sale.

Certainly no better way than that to celebrate free will and free choice.

My free will and choice is inhibited upon all the time, its about time we all share in sacrafice for the sins of our excess

 

[Smack Tripper]

For that reason, I support a national blue law from 6am Thanksgiving morning until 6am the day after thanksgiving. The bargains will still be there, and maybe some people would get to enjoy a courtesy that was once so common sense you didn't need to legislate for it.

Except you don't support a national blue law. You support one with certain exceptions that you've defined. I'm assuming you're still allowing beer, hot dogs, etc. at the football games to be sold? Gas and coffee on the way to the stadium? Tickets at the stadium window?

What makes your list of exceptions more valid than mine or Walmart's?

Because I'm a reasonable person with common sense. You are trying to lawyer up that which once did not need to be beaten over hundreds of comments. My list of exceptions is valid because I let millions of more employees be with their families. Is that hard to grasp? Hundreds of stadium employees mean that we should not have millions of employees home for Thanksgiving?

 

[Apple Jack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OagFIQMs1tw

 

[danielmclark]

For that reason, I support a national blue law from 6am Thanksgiving morning until 6am the day after thanksgiving. The bargains will still be there, and maybe some people would get to enjoy a courtesy that was once so common sense you didn't need to legislate for it.

Except you don't support a national blue law. You support one with certain exceptions that you've defined. I'm assuming you're still allowing beer, hot dogs, etc. at the football games to be sold? Gas and coffee on the way to the stadium? Tickets at the stadium window?

What makes your list of exceptions more valid than mine or Walmart's?

Because I'm a reasonable person with common sense. You are trying to lawyer up that which once did not need to be beaten over hundreds of comments. My list of exceptions is valid because I let millions of more employees be with their families. Is that hard to grasp? Hundreds of stadium employees mean that we should not have millions of employees home for Thanksgiving?

Hundreds of stadium employees, along with the players and staffs of both teams, the cops that provide security at the venues, the media people that broadcast the games (including all the camera operators, editors, on-air talent and more), the reporters that cover the game, the folks at the newspaper and television stations that keep the presses rolling (metaphorically speaking)...

There are far, far more than just "hundreds of stadium employees" that have to work as a result of having Thanksgiving football games.

Also?

It's pretty narrow minded to assume that everyone wants to be home with their families on Thanksgiving. Many people don't have families, many don't have good family relations and don't celebrate holidays the way you do. Many poor people would like to work the holiday because making a day's wage is more important than spending money on a feast. Many people just don't care about the damn holiday. If a retail store wants to open on Thanksgiving and they can get some employees to volunteer to work the day, who the hell are you to tell them they can't? If customers show up, great. If not, fine. Either way, your life is not impacted in the least.

 

[Apple Jack]

Yeah, but he likes football, so that stays.

 

[Smack Tripper]

For that reason, I support a national blue law from 6am Thanksgiving morning until 6am the day after thanksgiving. The bargains will still be there, and maybe some people would get to enjoy a courtesy that was once so common sense you didn't need to legislate for it.

Except you don't support a national blue law. You support one with certain exceptions that you've defined. I'm assuming you're still allowing beer, hot dogs, etc. at the football games to be sold? Gas and coffee on the way to the stadium? Tickets at the stadium window?

What makes your list of exceptions more valid than mine or Walmart's?

Because I'm a reasonable person with common sense. You are trying to lawyer up that which once did not need to be beaten over hundreds of comments. My list of exceptions is valid because I let millions of more employees be with their families. Is that hard to grasp? Hundreds of stadium employees mean that we should not have millions of employees home for Thanksgiving?

Hundreds of stadium employees, along with the players and staffs of both teams, the cops that provide security at the venues, the media people that broadcast the games (including all the camera operators, editors, on-air talent and more), the reporters that cover the game, the folks at the newspaper and television stations that keep the presses rolling (metaphorically speaking)...

There are far, far more than just "hundreds of stadium employees" that have to work as a result of having Thanksgiving football games.

Also?

It's pretty narrow minded to assume that everyone wants to be home with their families on Thanksgiving. Many people don't have families, many don't have good family relations and don't celebrate holidays the way you do. Many poor people would like to work the holiday because making a day's wage is more important than spending money on a feast. Many people just don't care about the damn holiday. If a retail store wants to open on Thanksgiving and they can get some employees to volunteer to work the day, who the hell are you to tell them they can't? If customers show up, great. If not, fine. Either way, your life is not impacted in the least.

Once again, millions of people of retail > thousands who understood what their job meant when they signed up

People in the rotating game, which will happen, probably once every 10 years at most, perhaps have a complaint. But Detroit and Dallas have hosted thanksgiving games for, 50 years? 60 years? It is understood that working that day is part of that employment.

And not, its not narrowminded in the least. Most > Many or it wouldn't be the biggest travel day of the year.

Once again, I'm completely with you, on an at-will basis. I would like to know the policies of these stores, if wal-mart corporate mandates all stores being open, how it works for a manager to say, sorry, we are short volunteers.

As for my life being impacted, I am a human being who is capable of empathy. I'm grateful for those people that sit with me around my Thanksgiving table, and I would be horrified, nothing short of horrified, if someone in my family who worked retail had to leave.

I'm unconcerned about those that have a hard time with their families as opposed to the majority of people who would spend time with their families that day. I do however wish them to find the blessing of community.

And people have to eat anyway, Thanksgiving, regardless and almost in spite of any religious stripes, is a human tribal tradition that dates to the dawn of time. Its a harvest feast and a harvest festival and we have chosen to call it thanksgiving, but the root of this holiday is in the land and not about excess at its core. Its about about the cycle of seed, growth and ultimately harvest being complete. Unless poor people are just not eating whatsoever, no one is too poor to take a day and be grateful for what they have. Even if all someone has is the breath in their lungs.

As for any lost employment hours, it is all there...the day before, and the morning after. Enjoy and indulge then. I don't think its unreasonable to keep your doors closed for a single day.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Yeah, but he likes football, so that stays.

I would be completely fine with football leaving. But football on Thanksgiving predates all of our existences, so I'm less concerned about this. Guess what, if there had never been football on Thanksgiving, we would universally object to it.

Are you aware of a community standard?

And can you not comprehend that millions of families, if nothing else, share in the football experience on Thanksgiving as opposed to working a retail job, which disrupts and severs the family experience?

For no good reasons? So dollars, which will be spent regardless, can be spent a few hours earlier?

 

[RCon]

I don't hear any railing against Stop & Shop, Giant, and other supermarkets for being open on Thanksgiving. What makes Walmart different than those?

Recognize, of course, that "that's the way it's always been" is a stupid answer.

 

[RCon]

As I've noted in other threads, I have zero intention of shopping in these stores on that day, and I think they'll lose money by doing it. I just think it's their choice to do so.

 

[Rayderr]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I don't hear any railing against Stop & Shop, Giant, and other supermarkets for being open on Thanksgiving. What makes Walmart different than those?

Recognize, of course, that "that's the way it's always been" is a stupid answer.

Two wrongs make a right for you? The grocery stores that are open in my area close by or 1 or 2pm for what its worth. I'm sure someone will find an exception, and in that exception, we should mobilize millions of retail employees.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

 

[Rayderr]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

 

[Apple Jack]

Serious question...mind you, I'm a pretty liberal guy...are you a Communist?

I don't hear any railing against Stop & Shop, Giant, and other supermarkets for being open on Thanksgiving. What makes Walmart different than those?

Recognize, of course, that "that's the way it's always been" is a stupid answer.

Two wrongs make a right for you? The grocery stores that are open in my area close by or 1 or 2pm for what its worth. I'm sure someone will find an exception, and in that exception, we should mobilize millions of retail employees.

You understand that we are a capitalist economy, right? And that Black Friday is the biggest revenue day of the year for retailers? And that if these organizations see the potential for turning some other retailers profits into their own, they're going to do it? This isn't rocket science here. It's exceptionally logical. It's all about money. And I've worked my share of Thanksgivings and Xmases and it sucked. But you know what? I was happy to have a job and #### and did my job.

 

[Apple Jack]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

"I would have majored in something else if I knew Wal-Mart was going to make us work on Thanksgiving!"

 

[SlaX]

I think we're making a difference in here. Wal-Mart just announced that it's no longer... nope. It's still the same.

 

[danielmclark]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

Well guess what. Starting this year, some people working retail are going to expect they might work Thanksgiving next year. And a few years from now, "they realize this when signing up for their job" won't be an excuse you get to use anymore. And you can go right on being "horrified" that someone has to go to work for a few hours instead of going along with your personal sense of morality and righteousness.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

So you see no change between a 10pm opening and 4pm, and Kmart and other retailers being open longer?

I can't say I supported the late Thursday opening but it seemed far more reasonable.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Serious question...mind you, I'm a pretty liberal guy...are you a Communist?

I don't hear any railing against Stop & Shop, Giant, and other supermarkets for being open on Thanksgiving. What makes Walmart different than those?

Recognize, of course, that "that's the way it's always been" is a stupid answer.

Two wrongs make a right for you? The grocery stores that are open in my area close by or 1 or 2pm for what its worth. I'm sure someone will find an exception, and in that exception, we should mobilize millions of retail employees.

You understand that we are a capitalist economy, right? And that Black Friday is the biggest revenue day of the year for retailers? And that if these organizations see the potential for turning some other retailers profits into their own, they're going to do it? This isn't rocket science here. It's exceptionally logical. It's all about money. And I've worked my share of Thanksgivings and Xmases and it sucked. But you know what? I was happy to have a job and #### and did my job.

I have no problem with black friday. Black Friday is fine. My objection is Black Thursday.

The reason stores keep kangaroo'ing and opening earlier and earlier is the bigger idiot principle, and it happens at work and many aspects of American life, and there is absolutely no value added in a vacuum. That is why I support a national blue law, to prevent the lure of an earlier opening.

Tell me something, Milton Friedman, do you think companies just became interested in making a profit? Did companies not make a higher profit in an era of stores being closed on Thanksgiving?

The conventional wisdom, as I understand, is that studies are showning, in the first place, that black friday has hurt the holiday retail sales. Between the loss leader principle and focus on a single day or weekend as opposed to a month long retail cycle, results and over growth and sales have trended downward. So I don't see the profit in doing this.

Of course it is their right to open early, and management principles indicate guys looking across the neighborhood and saying, "why arent we doing what he is doing".

which is why a 6am opening in 2000 got pushed to a Toys R Us 5am opening in 2003 becomes a 4am opening for Best Buy in 2006 (whatever the exact years, times and stores are may vary, you literal larry's). Operations has to answer to senior management and ultimately, rather than offer a rationale for a strategy for opening at 6am, the more dynamic mangagement manuever becomes to open earlier. Its doesn't make a it a better choice, but one that appears to be proactive.

If your principle is do have a door buster, that principle still prevails if the door opens at 6am on Friday as opposed to 4pm on Thursday.

I don't think I need to ride shotgun with Chairman Mao to have this thought.

The circle of karma appreciates your empathy in admitting an experience sucked and subjecting millions of more people to it because you went through it.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

my xmas shopping is already done.

Terrible.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I have to work the saturday after thanksgiving because we are closed on thanksgiving. Quite frankly I would rather just have my weekend so I support being open on thanksgiving.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

Well guess what. Starting this year, some people working retail are going to expect they might work Thanksgiving next year. And a few years from now, "they realize this when signing up for their job" won't be an excuse you get to use anymore. And you can go right on being "horrified" that someone has to go to work for a few hours instead of going along with your personal sense of morality and righteousness.

Do you have empathy in your soul? Do you realizes empathy is not an exclusive determinant of humanity, but a chief one in separating human from animal? If you lack empathy, you should cultivate it in yourself, because it will greatly improve your human experience.

When its a few years from now, this discussion will, perhaps, not be necessary or relevant, but it is not a few years from now, it is now. Or perhaps I will be inspired by this thread to see my idea for a law realized.

We are a collection of tribes, and there is an inherent human value in being in your collective. Unfortunately, there some people that have to work, but this is a sad exception, it should not be rationialized as a standard.

No one has demonstrated to me why there is value in opening earlier, other than it being the right of retailer and that some guy has to sell Cotton candy in Dallas and Detroit so the rest of America can leave their dinner table early to sell waffle irons. What is wrong with delaying these sales by a few hours to the greater good of the many...

Part of being in a collective is sometimes a small sacrafice has to be made.

 

[Apple Jack]

You're out of your tree, pilgrim.

 

[danielmclark]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

Well guess what. Starting this year, some people working retail are going to expect they might work Thanksgiving next year. And a few years from now, "they realize this when signing up for their job" won't be an excuse you get to use anymore. And you can go right on being "horrified" that someone has to go to work for a few hours instead of going along with your personal sense of morality and righteousness.

Do you have empathy in your soul? Do you realizes empathy is not an exclusive determinant of humanity, but a chief one in separating human from animal? If you lack empathy, you should cultivate it in yourself, because it will greatly improve your human experience.

When its a few years from now, this discussion will, perhaps, not be necessary or relevant, but it is not a few years from now, it is now. Or perhaps I will be inspired by this thread to see my idea for a law realized.

We are a collection of tribes, and there is an inherent human value in being in your collective. Unfortunately, there some people that have to work, but this is a sad exception, it should not be rationialized as a standard.

No one has demonstrated to me why there is value in opening earlier, other than it being the right of retailer and that some guy has to sell Cotton candy in Dallas and Detroit so the rest of America can leave their dinner table early to sell waffle irons. What is wrong with delaying these sales by a few hours to the greater good of the many...

Part of being in a collective is sometimes a small sacrafice has to be made.

No, you're right, clearly. I have no empathy for the needs of people because I think that people should have the ability to work and earn money instead of gorging themselves on turkey if they choose to. Obviously your "concern" for everyone's well being means that you know exactly what everyone's wants and needs are. MORE TURKEY FOR EVERYONE! AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE TURKEY, #### YOU, SMACK TRIPPER SAYS SMALL SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE! EAT UP! CELEBRATE THE WAY SMACK TRIPPER SAYS TO CELEBRATE!

Sound about right?

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

Well guess what. Starting this year, some people working retail are going to expect they might work Thanksgiving next year. And a few years from now, "they realize this when signing up for their job" won't be an excuse you get to use anymore. And you can go right on being "horrified" that someone has to go to work for a few hours instead of going along with your personal sense of morality and righteousness.

Do you have empathy in your soul? Do you realizes empathy is not an exclusive determinant of humanity, but a chief one in separating human from animal? If you lack empathy, you should cultivate it in yourself, because it will greatly improve your human experience.

When its a few years from now, this discussion will, perhaps, not be necessary or relevant, but it is not a few years from now, it is now. Or perhaps I will be inspired by this thread to see my idea for a law realized.

We are a collection of tribes, and there is an inherent human value in being in your collective. Unfortunately, there some people that have to work, but this is a sad exception, it should not be rationialized as a standard.

No one has demonstrated to me why there is value in opening earlier, other than it being the right of retailer and that some guy has to sell Cotton candy in Dallas and Detroit so the rest of America can leave their dinner table early to sell waffle irons. What is wrong with delaying these sales by a few hours to the greater good of the many...

Part of being in a collective is sometimes a small sacrafice has to be made.

No, you're right, clearly. I have no empathy for the needs of people because I think that people should have the ability to work and earn money instead of gorging themselves on turkey if they choose to. Obviously your "concern" for everyone's well being means that you know exactly what everyone's wants and needs are. MORE TURKEY FOR EVERYONE! AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE TURKEY, #### YOU, SMACK TRIPPER SAYS SMALL SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE! EAT UP! CELEBRATE THE WAY SMACK TRIPPER SAYS TO CELEBRATE!

Sound about right?

I don't know what everyone's wants and needs are, but I submit neither do you.

Unless are you saying that if we polled retail employees, the majority of these employees would want to work on Thanksgiving? That extra $10.79 an hour, the national retail salary average, extrapolated over an hour shift, 88 dollars or so, for a take home of $60.00-ish... you think that most retail workers would value that over time with their family for a single day?

Do you believe in other worker protections? Do you believe in OSHA? Do you believe in Overtime pay? I'm sure employees could use that money as straight time. But are workers not entitled to some basic protections, sometimes at the expense of money or regulation?

 

[Frostillicus]

So it looks like the concensus is that we should just get rid of all paid holidays. Why should just "those people" have to work on holidays? We should all work.

You're despicable.

I agree with this.

 

[DaVinci]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

Retail workers realize working holidays is part of their job. They work every holiday except Thanksgiving and Christmas. Because those 2 holidays have traditionally been lousy sales days. That appears to be no longer true for Thanksgiving.

 

[glumpy]

It won't be long until we are all working on Thanksgiving and the Friday awfterwards.

Define "we."

Everybody with a job.

Luke said it best: "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

Walmart has a pet section?!

 

[Rayderr]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

So you see no change between a 10pm opening and 4pm, and Kmart and other retailers being open longer?

I can't say I supported the late Thursday opening but it seemed far more reasonable.

It's not nearly the change you're making it out to be. You know people were at those stores all day already getting things ready for the thanksgiving day sale. They don't walk up to the door 5 minutes before opening, unlock the door, tell the crowd to wait, go turn on the lights,turn off the alarm, stock the cash registers then come back and let people in.

The retail chains aren't doing this because their evil people (and let's be honest that's why people like you are complaining about this. You see Walmart as top Evil Corporation, and thus gotta complain left and right about them. That's why you got left leaning publications and websites with headlines stating "Walmart ruining Thanksgiving" despite the fact that much smaller company Toys R Us is opening even earlier.) These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

 

[TxBuckeye]

Do you have empathy in your soul?

You must be new here. The widely accepted view at FBG is, if it doesn't affect you directly, or if it has happened to you in the past, then it is perfectly fine for everyone else. I thought that was fairly well established.

 

[TxBuckeye]

These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

Wow, you seemed to have completely missed the point of the thread. You do realize no one is saying it is the customers or managers that are suffering due to this decision right? Right??

 

[cstu]

These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

Wow, you seemed to have completely missed the point of the thread. You do realize no one is saying it is the customers or managers that are suffering due to this decision right? Right??

The workers aren't suffering either. A lot of folks don't have a family to have Thanksgiving with or simply don't want to have Thanksgiving with theirs.

Maybe time and a half on Thursday means they can have a better Thanksgiving dinner with their family on Saturday.

 

[Rayderr]

These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

Wow, you seemed to have completely missed the point of the thread. You do realize no one is saying it is the customers or managers that are suffering due to this decision right? Right??

Let me expand on the point a little more for you.

Who are you to tell people where they should work? Who are you to tell people they shouldn't work on Thanksgiving?

You get where I'm at with this?

And to add even more stupidity to this whole "Evil Walmart ruining employees Thanksgiving" meme, most of Walmarts are already open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 364 days a year (Xmas being the one day it closes.) Been that way for a long time. So what are people complaining about in this thread really? That sale prices are going into effect a few hours earlier. Yes, that is how ####ing desperate people are to find something to ##### about Walmart. Complaining that a sale, not the store, is starting a few hours earlier.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

So you see no change between a 10pm opening and 4pm, and Kmart and other retailers being open longer? I can't say I supported the late Thursday opening but it seemed far more reasonable.

It's not nearly the change you're making it out to be. You know people were at those stores all day already getting things ready for the thanksgiving day sale. They don't walk up to the door 5 minutes before opening, unlock the door, tell the crowd to wait, go turn on the lights,turn off the alarm, stock the cash registers then come back and let people in. The retail chains aren't doing this because their evil people (and let's be honest that's why people like you are complaining about this. You see Walmart as top Evil Corporation, and thus gotta complain left and right about them. That's why you got left leaning publications and websites with headlines stating "Walmart ruining Thanksgiving" despite the fact that much smaller company Toys R Us is opening even earlier.) These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

I've never worked retail so enlighten me with specifics. Because while aware that crew didn't arrive five minutes before a shift, I wasn't aware they were there "all day" before they started an 8 hour shift. I realize there are stock workers who prep and clean the stores but I didn't know a cashier or an electronics clerk arrives six hours before their shift.

Once again, you seem to be an advocate for choice, choice for retailers, choice for consumers. Would you support those that choose not to work thanksgiving being a non-firable job action?

And by your logic, who am I to tell a business not to sell alcohol to a 19 year old because it was serving a want and need.

 

[Smack Tripper]

These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go ishopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

Wow, you seemed to have completely missed the point of the thread. You do realize no one is saying it is the customers or managers that are suffering due to this decision right? Right??

The workers aren't suffering either. A lot of folks don't have a family to have Thanksgiving with or simply don't want to have Thanksgiving with theirs.

Maybe time and a half on Thursday means they can have a better Thanksgiving dinner with their family on Saturday.

Once again, your annectdotal red herring of "a lot" belie the facts. That it is the largest travel day of the year. It is not contained by any religion, and had for 230 years or so been a day of gathering outside of religion, making it a unique American holiday in the context of world history. I say confidently, MOST, would like to spend this day with their family.

 

[Rayderr]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

So you see no change between a 10pm opening and 4pm, and Kmart and other retailers being open longer? I can't say I supported the late Thursday opening but it seemed far more reasonable.

It's not nearly the change you're making it out to be. You know people were at those stores all day already getting things ready for the thanksgiving day sale. They don't walk up to the door 5 minutes before opening, unlock the door, tell the crowd to wait, go turn on the lights,turn off the alarm, stock the cash registers then come back and let people in. The retail chains aren't doing this because their evil people (and let's be honest that's why people like you are complaining about this. You see Walmart as top Evil Corporation, and thus gotta complain left and right about them. That's why you got left leaning publications and websites with headlines stating "Walmart ruining Thanksgiving" despite the fact that much smaller company Toys R Us is opening even earlier.) These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

I've never worked retail so enlighten me with specifics. Because while aware that crew didn't arrive five minutes before a shift, I wasn't aware they were there "all day" before they started an 8 hour shift. I realize there are stock workers who prep and clean the stores but I didn't know a cashier or an electronics clerk arrives six hours before their shift.

Once again, you seem to be an advocate for choice, choice for retailers, choice for consumers. Would you support those that choose not to work thanksgiving being a non-firable job action?

And by your logic, who am I to tell a business not to sell alcohol to a 19 year old because it was serving a want and need.

As mentioned in another post, most Walmart stores have been open 24 hours on Thanksgiving (and 363 other days) for many years now.

I am an advocate for choice. Choice for retailers, consumers, and employees. It's a customer has the choice to shop on Thanksgiving. A retailer has the choice to be open on Thanksgiving. A person has the choice if they want to work for the company, a company has the choice to not hire people who won't work on certain days. A company has the choice to fire employees that refuse to work on certain days when that person knew working on that day was a possibility when they agreed to work there.

And if you're having to resort to the awful analogy to shopping on Thanksgiving to underage drinking, then you're a lost cause and just not worth arguing with.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

So you think that Walmart employees are now going "What? We have to work on Thanksgivingjust like we have for the past several years? I wasn't expecting that!"

So you see no change between a 10pm opening and 4pm, and Kmart and other retailers being open longer? I can't say I supported the late Thursday opening but it seemed far more reasonable.

It's not nearly the change you're making it out to be. You know people were at those stores all day already getting things ready for the thanksgiving day sale. They don't walk up to the door 5 minutes before opening, unlock the door, tell the crowd to wait, go turn on the lights,turn off the alarm, stock the cash registers then come back and let people in. The retail chains aren't doing this because their evil people (and let's be honest that's why people like you are complaining about this. You see Walmart as top Evil Corporation, and thus gotta complain left and right about them. That's why you got left leaning publications and websites with headlines stating "Walmart ruining Thanksgiving" despite the fact that much smaller company Toys R Us is opening even earlier.) These chains are doing it because people are wanting to go out and shop on Thanksgiving. No one is holding a gun to the head of the American Public and saying "Shop on Thanksgiving or I'll kill you!"

If you don't like shopping on Thanksgiving, then don't go shopping on Thanksgiving. But let those people who want to go shopping. Who are you to tell them what to to do? Who are you to tell companies that they can't serve their customers needs and wants?

I've never worked retail so enlighten me with specifics. Because while aware that crew didn't arrive five minutes before a shift, I wasn't aware they were there "all day" before they started an 8 hour shift. I realize there are stock workers who prep and clean the stores but I didn't know a cashier or an electronics clerk arrives six hours before their shift.Once again, you seem to be an advocate for choice, choice for retailers, choice for consumers. Would you support those that choose not to work thanksgiving being a non-firable job action?

And by your logic, who am I to tell a business not to sell alcohol to a 19 year old because it was serving a want and need.

As mentioned in another post, most Walmart stores have been open 24 hours on Thanksgiving (and 363 other days) for many years now.I am an advocate for choice. Choice for retailers, consumers, and employees. It's a customer has the choice to shop on Thanksgiving. A retailer has the choice to be open on Thanksgiving. A person has the choice if they want to work for the company, a company has the choice to not hire people who won't work on certain days. A company has the choice to fire employees that refuse to work on certain days when that person knew working on that day was a possibility when they agreed to work there.

And if you're having to resort to the awful analogy to shopping on Thanksgiving to underage drinking, then you're a lost cause and just not worth arguing with.

You lying or your wrong. The majority of walmarts were NOT open on Thanksgiving. I can't find a link that suggests even MANY were. That's why this debate is live and if you can find me evidence that says otherwise but I don't accept your fabrication of facts as we stand now, to make a point.

The underage drinking argument is absolutely relevant because we have decided As a collective that you may not be under 21 and legally drink. That age used to be 18 but due to citizens that could not handle that responsibility, we had to adjust our laws.

Every law, rule and regulation is rooted in a simple realization, this is a problem that needs to be addressed because self governance has failed. This is where we stand with big retail on thanksgiving. It is absolutely no different than telling a legally recognized adult of 19 that they can not drink alcohol.

And a company's workforce is not a serfdom, subject to wanton whims of the company. There are minimum wage laws, overtime laws, OSHA laws and I'm extending this as another proposed protection. You have failed to demonstrate why I don't have grounds for this perspective.

 

[danielmclark]

I'll be working on Thanksgiving for the 4th year in a row. As will medical staff (from the ER doctor to the hospital janitor) hotel clerks and maids, cooks, waiters and waitresses, police, firefighters, security guards, airline pilots, flight attendants, airport staff (from air traffic controllers, to security guards, to rental car agents to shuttle bus drivers) employees at power and water plants, cable, phone and internet companies, IT personnel, gas station attendants, 911 operators, cashiers at 7-11 and other 24 hour stores like CVS, television and radio personnel from on air-talent to the low level production assistants to engineers, in many cities, bus and subway drivers, truck drivers, the military, and so on.

But hey, let's all complain how retail employees (specifically Wal-Mart) are also working on Thanksgiving.

Essential emergency personnel realize working holidays is part of their job.

Service industry professionals also realize this when signing up for their job.

Ditto broadcasting professionals.

Most other stores have some measure of restricted hours, but if you can't appreciate the difference between buying medicine or gasoline and buying a Snuggie and the timing of need of those items in a contexualized order, I can't help you my friend.

Well guess what. Starting this year, some people working retail are going to expect they might work Thanksgiving next year. And a few years from now, "they realize this when signing up for their job" won't be an excuse you get to use anymore. And you can go right on being "horrified" that someone has to go to work for a few hours instead of going along with your personal sense of morality and righteousness.

Do you have empathy in your soul? Do you realizes empathy is not an exclusive determinant of humanity, but a chief one in separating human from animal? If you lack empathy, you should cultivate it in yourself, because it will greatly improve your human experience.

When its a few years from now, this discussion will, perhaps, not be necessary or relevant, but it is not a few years from now, it is now. Or perhaps I will be inspired by this thread to see my idea for a law realized.

We are a collection of tribes, and there is an inherent human value in being in your collective. Unfortunately, there some people that have to work, but this is a sad exception, it should not be rationialized as a standard.

No one has demonstrated to me why there is value in opening earlier, other than it being the right of retailer and that some guy has to sell Cotton candy in Dallas and Detroit so the rest of America can leave their dinner table early to sell waffle irons. What is wrong with delaying these sales by a few hours to the greater good of the many...

Part of being in a collective is sometimes a small sacrafice has to be made.

No, you're right, clearly. I have no empathy for the needs of people because I think that people should have the ability to work and earn money instead of gorging themselves on turkey if they choose to. Obviously your "concern" for everyone's well being means that you know exactly what everyone's wants and needs are. MORE TURKEY FOR EVERYONE! AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE TURKEY, #### YOU, SMACK TRIPPER SAYS SMALL SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE! EAT UP! CELEBRATE THE WAY SMACK TRIPPER SAYS TO CELEBRATE!

Sound about right?

I don't know what everyone's wants and needs are, but I submit neither do you.

Unless are you saying that if we polled retail employees, the majority of these employees would want to work on Thanksgiving? That extra $10.79 an hour, the national retail salary average, extrapolated over an hour shift, 88 dollars or so, for a take home of $60.00-ish... you think that most retail workers would value that over time with their family for a single day?

Do you believe in other worker protections? Do you believe in OSHA? Do you believe in Overtime pay? I'm sure employees could use that money as straight time. But are workers not entitled to some basic protections, sometimes at the expense of money or regulation?

You can't possibly believe that making certain types of stores close on Thanksgiving is the same thing as OSHA or overtime pay. You just can't. Nobody is that ####### stupid.

Thanksgiving obviously means a lot to you, and that's great. I'm sure your family loves having you around with all your enthusiasm for the holiday - and I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. Your failing is in thinking that everyone else feels the same way and that everyone else needs to be "protected" from "big retail". That's ludicrous. Plenty of people would like the time-and-a-half for working the holiday. Who are you to tell them they can't?

Also? You admitted you've never worked retail. That's blindingly obvious. I have. When you work five days a week for minimum wage, losing 20% of your paycheck is a big deal. Maybe "$60-ish" isn't a big amount to you, but it's a big amount to the people who are barely making ends meet, often working two jobs, and often struggling to pay the bills. You have, once again, demonstrated your extraordinary disconnect between you and the people you think you're defending from the evils of "big retail".

 

[Rayderr]

You lying or your wrong. The majority of walmarts were NOT open on Thanksgiving. I can't find a link that suggests even MANY were. That's why this debate is live and if you can find me evidence that says otherwise but I don't accept your fabrication of facts as we stand now, to make a point.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2013/11/12/wal-mart-unveils-black-friday-plans/

Walmart, whose stores have traditionally remained open on Thanksgiving, joins a growing list of retailers that plan to expand Thanksgiving and Black Friday sales this year.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/11/walmart_giving_1_million_emplo.html

Because many Walmart stores are open 24/7 or nearly 'round the clock, many of those employees were already scheduled to work that Thursday. But they will receive wages for the average daily shift they worked during the previous two weeks in addition to their eight-hour shift on Thanksgiving.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/11/12/retail-thanksgiving-store-opening-times/3504503/

1. Walmart

Thanksgiving day opening: Specials begin at 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. (Many stores open 24 hrs.)

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/11/11/5902600/walmart-announces-plans-for-black.html

Simon added, "Some other retailers advertise great deals, but may only have a handful of products available, forcing customers to wait outside the store only to leave disappointed. Not at Walmart. Most of our stores are open 24 hours so customers can come inside. And we've improved this year's shopping experience so customers can spend less time in line and get what they need without going anywhere else."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/11/12/walmart-black-friday-thanksgiving-opening/

Most of Wal-Mart's 4,000 U.S. namesake stores are already open 24 hours year-round. But it's now concentrating the holiday deals on Thanksgiving.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-11-12/business/bal-consuming-walmart-kicks-off-black-friday-on-thanksgiving-20131111_1_black-friday-thanksgiving-day-hours-walmart

Walmart’s three sale events will be held at the same time at all Walmart stores. Stores open 24 hours will be open on Thanksgiving, while Thanksgiving opening times for other stores will vary by location.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/231528711_Wal-Mart_to_start_holiday_deals_at_6_pm_Thanksgiving_night_.html

Most of Wal-Mart's stores, many of which contain large supermarkets and pharmacies, are open 24 hours every day. So on Thanksgiving, the question isn't when the stores will open, but what time the world's largest retailer wants shoppers to arrive.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/world-s-largest-retailer-creeps-into-thanksgiving-dinner-hours/article_21b3d9d0-a00e-567f-a31f-95dc68387bfa.html

As for the estimated 1 million or more Walmart workers who will be working on Thanksgiving, he said most stores are already open 24 hours a day, so employees were already accustomed to working on Thanksgiving. He said they will be paid holiday pay and will receive a free Thanksgiving meal during their shift. They will also receive a 25 percent discount on their own purchases on Dec. 5 or 6.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/11/12/walmart-to-offer-black-friday-deals-on-thanksgiving/

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – Officials announced Tuesday that while Walmart Supercenters are open 24 hours, they’ll be offering their Black Friday deals on Thanksgiving night.

 

[RCon]

That is why I support a national blue law, to prevent the lure of an earlier opening.

Once again, you don't support a national blue law. You support a national blue law with specific exceptions that you like. Big difference. Specifically, it reeks of hypocrisy to then claim that others are selfish for supporting a national blue law with different exceptions that they like.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Smack Tripper doing a hell of a fishing job in here.

 

[Mr. Cross]

Make sure you bring some can good Thrusday so that the Walmart workers can enjoy Thanksgiving one of these days.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/11/19/walmart-donations-drive-employees/3637953/