What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Was the Redeem Team better than the Dream Team? (1 Viewer)

yeah, DWade and Kobe would've probably been the least affected by the physicality of '92-style defense.
Which raises another question:

Who is officiating this matchup? Bad 90's NBA refs? Bad 00's NBA refs? Or bad FIBA ref?

Also, would the international rules apply or 90's NBA rules, or 00's NBA rules?

 
the mamba was just built different, as a long time kobe/laker fan the netflix special did cause a few tears
 
I think is would be a slug fest. The generations are really close then international rules. Sadly in my mind in comes down to coaching. Even though the 92 had a few older players and some like Bird that were injured. MJ would have made sure the people playing the best played and the other teammates would get it. Not sure Kobe could have done the same in a one game set. I would love the best of 7. There probably lean younger crew.
 
I don't see how the 2008 team would match up in the paint. The rebound advantage would be crazy in favor of the 1992 squad. Wade and LeBron would have to play lights out on offense, which is possible certainly, but would be harder against Pippen and Jordan.
 
dream team had killers. Multiple killers.
redeem team had kobe and sort of killers lebron and cp3

youngsters think Barkley is the fat guy on tv. Barkley, ewing, the mailman and the admiral KILL them inside.

I take the dream team.

and if you go by nicknames, it not close.
 
lnteresting that the difference makers are likely the guys not scoring. Also amazing that Barkley could outrebound guys that had 5+ inches on him and 9+ inches in reach.
 
lnteresting that the difference makers are likely the guys not scoring. Also amazing that Barkley could outrebound guys that had 5+ inches on him and 9+ inches in reach.
Barkley was an athletic freak. People forget this because they see the 400 lb. guy on tv that can barely walk. The dream team Barkley was just as athletic as LeBron, just 4 inches shorter. He's also by far the best rebounder on either team. He left the Olympics and led the Suns to the finals and won the MVP. He was an absolute stud in 92.

And to your other point.... Robinson was averaging around 4.5 blocks per game in those years. Ewing was at about 3. The rim protection on the Dream Team was huge.
 
Dream Team for reasons already given:
  1. Advantage Jordan in any individual matchup. Best player on either team.
  2. Big rebounding and rim protection advantage to Dream Team. I mean big advantages in both areas, enough to decide the game/series.
  3. Deeper bench for Dream Team, though agree in an actual matchup the rotation would be shortened somewhat.
One thing I didn't specifically see mentioned is that the Dream Team would have a big advantage in playmaking. I respect Paul, Kidd, and Lebron a lot, but none of them match the passing/playmaking of Magic or Bird, or even Jordan when he wanted to be a playmaker, and I didn't even mention Stockton or even Pippen there.
 
How far past their primes were Magic and Bird in 1992? If they were playing real competition would they even get minutes?
 
How far past their primes were Magic and Bird in 1992? If they were playing real competition would they even get minutes?

Both of them were at the end of their career - averaging 20 points still in their last year (minus Magic’s comeback). I think it’s a valid point that they were well past their primes but both were such smart players that they could contribute. The point I made a while back is still valid - you aren’t going to be playing everybody a bunch of minutes - Jordan isn’t sitting and Kobe probably isn’t either. The Dream Team had in their prime Jordan, Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Pippen, Drexler, Mullin and Robinson. Bird and Magic probably play minimal minutes in a series and maybe not at all in a one off.
 
How far past their primes were Magic and Bird in 1992? If they were playing real competition would they even get minutes?

Magic won MVP in 1988-1989 and 1989-1990 and was 2nd in MVP voting in 1990-1991 and was 1st team All NBA all 3 of those seasons, then he retired and played for the Dream Team 1 year later. He may not have been in peak prime form, but he was very close to it.

Bird was further from his prime due to his back injuries, but, as someone said earlier in the thread, he was still the best shooter among all players on the Dream and Redeem teams. HIs basketball IQ and playmaking ability was also still elite.
 
I respect Paul, Kidd, and Lebron a lot, but none of them match the passing/playmaking of Magic or Bird

This thread is amazing

Maybe you just aren't the student of the game I thought you were...
Bird is simply not a better passer than Lebron and Kidd. That is preposterous.

He didn't pass/assist at the volume rate of Lebron or Kidd, who were running their offenses. For Bird, it's not about quantity, it's about quality. IMO he is severely underrated on that front. At least before Jokic, he was reasonably viewed as the best passing big man ever.

That said, I will concede the point. I overstated. However, I still believe that Dream Team > Redeem Team in passing/playmaking.

More importantly, this doesn't change my view that the Dream Team would beat the Redeem Team in a single game or series for the other reasons already stated.
 
It’s kinda hard to judge the stats because the 1992 team didn’t really have to try. I’m generally in the camp of people get better at stuff as time passes but it’s not like 16 years is anything crazy.

The 2008 team only made 9.6 three-pointers per game, that surprised me a bit. 1992 was 7.2. 2020(1) was 13.5. To me that represents the sort of shift in terms of style you just can't ignore, whereas I guess I don't feel the same about 08 vs 92. I'd bet my life on the 2020 team over 1992 though.
 
I respect Paul, Kidd, and Lebron a lot, but none of them match the passing/playmaking of Magic or Bird

This thread is amazing

Maybe you just aren't the student of the game I thought you were...
Bird is simply not a better passer than Lebron and Kidd. That is preposterous.

He didn't pass/assist at the volume rate of Lebron or Kidd, who were running their offenses. For Bird, it's not about quantity, it's about quality. IMO he is severely underrated on that front. At least before Jokic, he was reasonably viewed as the best passing big man ever.

That said, I will concede the point. I overstated. However, I still believe that Dream Team > Redeem Team in passing/playmaking.

More importantly, this doesn't change my view that the Dream Team would beat the Redeem Team in a single game or series for the other reasons already stated.
Yea I think it could go either way. Bird and Magic weren’t at the peak of their game then. Kobe/Lebron were close to it, it’s definitely one of those things I wish we could see.
 
Barkley went 7-8 from 3. I’m sure those were mostly taken in jest, but that’s nice. Also I have no idea why these letters are italicized and I can’t get rid of it
 
I respect Paul, Kidd, and Lebron a lot, but none of them match the passing/playmaking of Magic or Bird

This thread is amazing

Maybe you just aren't the student of the game I thought you were...
Bird is simply not a better passer than Lebron and Kidd. That is preposterous.

He didn't pass/assist at the volume rate of Lebron or Kidd, who were running their offenses. For Bird, it's not about quantity, it's about quality. IMO he is severely underrated on that front. At least before Jokic, he was reasonably viewed as the best passing big man ever.

That said, I will concede the point. I overstated. However, I still believe that Dream Team > Redeem Team in passing/playmaking.

More importantly, this doesn't change my view that the Dream Team would beat the Redeem Team in a single game or series for the other reasons already stated.
The bold is an excellent statement. And if you watched the Celtics play in that era, he would basically get the "Gretzky assist" (for you young'uns that's the pass to the guy that then gets the assist). He is most certainly a better passer.
 
Bird is simply not a better passer than Lebron and Kidd. That is preposterous.

It is not preposterous. He was an exceptional passer that saw the floor as good or better than anybody. The only thing he is lacking is being a PG where he was the primary distributer. He could have done that and been a point forward if the game was played that way back then but he wasn't called on to do it. That doesn't take away the skill he possessed.
 
Bird is simply not a better passer than Lebron and Kidd. That is preposterous.

It is not preposterous. He was an exceptional passer that saw the floor as good or better than anybody. The only thing he is lacking is being a PG where he was the primary distributer. He could have done that and been a point forward if the game was played that way back then but he wasn't called on to do it. That doesn't take away the skill he possessed.

:goodposting:

On the all-time leader list, Lebron is the only non-guard in NBA history to average more assists per game than Bird (7.4 to 6.3). But the game was obviously played very differently during their respective careers. I see no justification to believe Lebron is a better passer that isn't tied to circumstance/context.
 
I’m torn on this - Kidd and James are top-10 all-time in assists and Larry is 44th as a forward who didn’t have the ball nearly as much as those two. Larry’s court vision and reading of the game is superior to the other two so I’ll hedge and say it depends on how you define passer. Larry was happy to shoot - same with LeBron. He didn’t play nearly as many games as people maybe think. If forced I’d give the nod to Bird because of his position but it’s close - there’s no losers here.
 
I respect Paul, Kidd, and Lebron a lot, but none of them match the passing/playmaking of Magic or Bird

This thread is amazing

Maybe you just aren't the student of the game I thought you were...
Bird is simply not a better passer than Lebron and Kidd. That is preposterous.

I think you are underselling Bird here GB, which doesn’t happen often around here.
 
Dream Team. No doubt for me. In a 7 game series it would be a slugfest and if they play and officiate 90’s era they may win easier.

The game was far more physical in the 90’s. And as much as I loved watching Lebron and Wade the amount of crying they would do up and down the floor would make me puke.

The Dream Team would just punch thebredeem team in the mouth….over and over and over.

Would be really great to see a series between these two juggernaut teams.
 
The game was far more physical in the 90’s. And as much as I loved watching Lebron and Wade the amount of crying they would do up and down the floor would make me puke.

I do agree they whine a whole lot but I believe that is a function of the era they have played in where whining was what got them more calls down the road. I have no doubt Lebron could have still excelled in the 80's-90's as he had the frame that could handle the punishment. Wade I am not so sure about and he would have had to change his game some. I do think he had the mentality to get through it and probably would have been fine.
 
The game was far more physical in the 90’s. And as much as I loved watching Lebron and Wade the amount of crying they would do up and down the floor would make me puke.

I do agree they whine a whole lot but I believe that is a function of the era they have played in where whining was what got them more calls down the road. I have no doubt Lebron could have still excelled in the 80's-90's as he had the frame that could handle the punishment. Wade I am not so sure about and he would have had to change his game some. I do think he had the mentality to get through it and probably would have been fine.
Wade and Lebron are true ballers. Stating the obvious. I agree. They would have been fine in the 90’s. Wade would have developed his mid range game quickly if he played in that era.

Lebron can play in any era. Just an absolute beast.
 
I’m torn on this - Kidd and James are top-10 all-time in assists and Larry is 44th as a forward who didn’t have the ball nearly as much as those two. Larry’s court vision and reading of the game is superior to the other two so I’ll hedge and say it depends on how you define passer. Larry was happy to shoot - same with LeBron. He didn’t play nearly as many games as people maybe think. If forced I’d give the nod to Bird because of his position but it’s close - there’s no losers here.
Wait, you think Bird's "reading of the game" is superior to Lebron's??
 
I’m torn on this - Kidd and James are top-10 all-time in assists and Larry is 44th as a forward who didn’t have the ball nearly as much as those two. Larry’s court vision and reading of the game is superior to the other two so I’ll hedge and say it depends on how you define passer. Larry was happy to shoot - same with LeBron. He didn’t play nearly as many games as people maybe think. If forced I’d give the nod to Bird because of his position but it’s close - there’s no losers here.
Wait, you think Bird's "reading of the game" is superior to Lebron's??

Yes. LeBron is a fantastic player - one of the top 3 physical specimens that’s ever played (IMO) and he’s a great passer and great reader of the game. I just think Bird was better at that part because while he had a lot of physical qualities it’s obvious he was limited in ways LeBron isn’t. Bird was as good as he was because his basketball IQ and shooting were off the charts. I think LeBron is a better player.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top