I think in hindsight it was inappropriate and I can see how some could have been offended. I also don't think there was any intention to be offensive or racist. The guy can be a little socially awkward at times and he just said the wrong thing. A couple people reacted strongly, one guy kinda lost it, and I think those reactions were over the top, especially in the context of the comment being made amongst good friends where some benefit of the doubt should be given.OP - In your opinion, do you think this was an offensive statement?
Thread -Not sure I totally understand it, but probably, I guess?
Cowboysfan - OMG EVERYONE CALM DOWN WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO GET SO CRAZY WORKED UP OVER EVERYTHING!?!
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Was this offensive? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mitchie
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Wasn’t it directed at basically a stranger though?
Scoresman
Footballguy
It's totally possible it was just an awkward statement/joke with no intention of racism, but that doesn't mean it wasn't offensive.
I used to work with someone like this who just always said the wrong thing intentionally. This one time one of the other guys at work was talking about how his daughter just turned 12, and the guy's immediate reaction was to ask if she'd started having her periods yet. It could be an assburgers thing or some other issue.
I used to work with someone like this who just always said the wrong thing intentionally. This one time one of the other guys at work was talking about how his daughter just turned 12, and the guy's immediate reaction was to ask if she'd started having her periods yet. It could be an assburgers thing or some other issue.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Just curious—-can I ask what the general age range of the dude that made the comment is? You don’t need to be super specific—a general answer like ”early 20’s”, or “mid thirties”..etc would be good enough. The only reason that I ask is because working and managing a retail business for so long—I noticed a few things about human behavior. A lot of the awkward comments that I heard were from people that tended to be young enough to where they effectively grew up spending a lot of time online—and this really impacted their “in person” social skills and etiquette. The other extremes tended to be from people that were much older that didn’t realize that times change and you can’t really say some of the same things you were able to years ago (for example—using the word “oriental” in the wrong context). Lastly—if this dude doesn’t fall into either of those age groups—do you know if this dude does a lot of his socializing online? The reason I ask is because his comment reminds me of the kind of troll stuff you’d see in the comment sections of social media stuff. Often times—those sections tend to be echo chambers of similar minded people—so many times—they don’t even realize that what they say is inappropriate to a lot of the general population.I think in hindsight it was inappropriate and I can see how some could have been offended. I also don't think there was any intention to be offensive or racist. The guy can be a little socially awkward at times and he just said the wrong thing. A couple people reacted strongly, one guy kinda lost it, and I think those reactions were over the top, especially in the context of the comment being made amongst good friends where some benefit of the doubt should be given.OP - In your opinion, do you think this was an offensive statement?
Thread -
Cowboysfan - OMG EVERYONE CALM DOWN WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO GET SO CRAZY WORKED UP OVER EVERYTHING!?!
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
58 people voted that it is “pretty offensive” or “extremely offensive”OP - In your opinion, do you think this was an offensive statement?
Thread -
Cowboysfan - OMG EVERYONE CALM DOWN WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO GET SO CRAZY WORKED UP OVER EVERYTHING!?!
91% of 95 votes are people that say it’s offensive
Try again lol
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Lots of defending what the guy's intentions were (i.e. not to be offensive, he's not racist, etc), but you've still never answered what the guy was actually referring to with his words.I think in hindsight it was inappropriate and I can see how some could have been offended. I also don't think there was any intention to be offensive or racist. The guy can be a little socially awkward at times and he just said the wrong thing. A couple people reacted strongly, one guy kinda lost it, and I think those reactions were over the top, especially in the context of the comment being made amongst good friends where some benefit of the doubt should be given.OP - In your opinion, do you think this was an offensive statement?
Thread -
Cowboysfan - OMG EVERYONE CALM DOWN WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO GET SO CRAZY WORKED UP OVER EVERYTHING!?!
Specifically, what was the exact connection he was making between her dad "being a thin man", her physical appearance, and her dad being from Africa?
If it's something other than a reference to stereotypically malnourished Africans, then he/you should clarify. Maybe people (including in here) have misinterpreted.
But if he indeed was making what appears to be a bad joke based on a stereotype, and you're trying to figure out how offended people should be to that bad joke, then that's a whole different ballgame.
Thanks. And I also think there's something deeper there. It's been my observation some folks are just looking to be offended. They assume something is offensive even if they don't understand it.
This seems wrong to me.
ZADO
Footballguy
Honestly i can say with certainty that if i was with that group and someone said that i would probably have the same reaction as if someone farted loudly
id look over and smirk and take a swig of my drink and never give it a second thought
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Answering a poll or responding to a question as to whether something can be construed as offensive is not the same as being personally offended. The OP obviously wanted opinions.
I also don’t get how people don’t “get” the joke - seems pretty obvious what he was going for, unless you think this guy just randomly asks people if their dad is thin when he meets them (it’s seems odd that people must think that’s the case). If the woman said her dad was Jewish and the guy’s response was “is he cheap?” - I wonder if that would have changed the dynamic here.
Like I said before it really only matters what the woman thinks though - if she was bothered than it was offensive. If she didn’t care and moved on, so should everyone else.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Isn’t that also what happens when you suspend people for things you find offensive that others may not find offensive in other walks of life?
I’m not saying that as some “gotcha moment” just trying to maybe help you see why others may find something offensive that you don’t or can’t see why it may be offensive.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I think I would give my standard:
“really, dude?”
Followed by my smug scoff and shake of the head.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Bumping the best post in the thread.
No. Not even close.
I never ever want the moderators to suspend someone over something the moderator doesn't understand. I want them to do exactly what I'm saying here.
The idea of "I don't understand what that means but I'll be offended anyway" is exactly what I'm saying people, and the moderators should not do.
I think there was someone suspended years ago when I thought I understood what someone meant but I was wrong. That's obviously very different from looking at something and not understanding.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I more or less agree with this. The question was not “if we are offended”, it was ”was this offensive”. Those are not mutually exclusive things. While we personally can think that the comment was effed up and weird—since it wasn’t directed at us—we weren’t necessarily the group or person “offended“ by it. However, we do reserve the right to believe that the comment could be “offensive” towards the young black woman that it was made to.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m saying you’re applying your personal level of what you find offensive when handing out suspensions - which is your right of course - while others may not be offended by that particular post at all.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This is what people seem to be missing. This isn’t a bunch of dudes sitting around ripping each other or “busting balls” - he made this joke (based on a racial stereotype) about a woman he’s never met before’s dad” - that factors into it. Of course she may find that offensive - I think those that act like they can’t see it are either being disingenuous or just want to rant about how everyone is so easily offended “these days”.
massraider
Footballguy
Heartwarming to know that is some guys here would not be offended at a comment they don't understand, directed at someone else.
Your bravery is an example for us all.
Your bravery is an example for us all.
I'm asking the moderators to apply what we've set as the framework for how we'll operate here. Not sure why that's confusing.
That is completely different from what I said in how I don't think you should consider something offensive if you don't understand.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m not confused at all.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
In the past 15 years, I’ve had the wonderful pleasure of having three relationships with black women. The most recent relationship ended a little over a year ago but lasted close to 8 years. The two relationships I had prior to the most recent one each lasted just shy of two years. I don’t want to comment for others—but I can tell you firsthand that the number of awkward comments and weird glares that one gets while being in an interracial relationship in this country is palpably different than when being in a non-interracial relationship (As I’ve had the pleasure of being in both types). The first time I dated a black woman, I thought that it was maybe just I being hyper alert or weird about it—but it would happen so often and frequently that I basically abandoned that theory almost immediately. A lot of people are thinly veiled in their prejudices—and I don’t think that this is always by accident. Some of it is purposeful, and based on the information that the OP has given us (along with my experience of being in interracial relationships), I think what he said was inappropriate and done purposely. I don’t think that for a second that he would be asking if her parents were fat if she was an overweight white woman from the States.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What if we do understand it? I “get” the joke unlike some that claim they don’t - seems obvious unless you think asking some one they just met if their dad is thin is normal? Sometimes you have to follow the bouncing ball.
Like I said I’m not offended - and frankly outside of this thread I don’t think about it - but from the woman’s perspective I can see how it can be offensive.
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massraider
Footballguy
The best possible explanation for what else he might have meant that we can come up with here is "Americans are fat, so if you are from somewhere else, your family must be skinny".
That's the BEST we got, and feels like quite a reach, I dunno how a perfect stranger is supposed to get to that reasoning, and the first thing we think of is some starving African joke.
Seems to reason a black woman might get there too.
Is it offensive? No idea, we dunno what he meant, but a better question is, would it be reasonable/understandable if this woman was offended? I think yes.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Perfect way to sum it up. That statement can certainly be viewed as offensive if some stranger made it - probably even deep down by those claiming they don’t “get it” - which is what the OP was asking about.
Some people answer the OP in a mostly reasonable manner.
But some just see this as one more forum to express their outrage as to how everyone is now so easily offended. Kind of ironic really.
I've said before but understand not everyone's read the whole thread but guy who said this is not at all racist, I understand some people can be a bit closeted in their racism but I know the guy well enough to believe this is not the case here. Also based what he said afterwards, this was not intended to be a joke and noone really interpreted his comment as trying to be funny. Sometimes people just say the wrong thing without intending to.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I 100% believe you - that doesn’t mean in a spout of social awkwardness that he couldn’t have made a racist joke. I think that’s just what popped into his head when trying to break the ice with a joke - his mind went to stereotypes.
Im sure he probably immediately regretted it. We’ve all been there one way or another.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I agree with a lot of this. I will refrain from saying anything to the effect of “the best possible explanation” as that is a subjective thing. When it comes to statements that are “ambiguous“, potentially thinly veiled, and presented in a way that purposely allows for some interpretation—the way that they are interpreted or consumed is based on the points of views and life experiences of the people reading or hearing those statements. A fitness instructor from the States could hear that statement and think that it’s a knock against Americans being an obese nation if the statement was somehow being directed or presented to him. However, that same statement to a woman from Africa could easily be interpreted by her as being “aren’t you lucky that you are here instead of being in your home country where there is a large number of people starving”?. The question was asked of us—“was this offensive” and the context was that it was made to a woman from Africa who was being introduced to the group for the first time. Based on that—and based on my experience of being in several interracial relationships—I answered that it was “pretty offensive”.
I’m generally very private about my dating life, but the reason why I brought up some details about it in this thread is because I think that it’s important for those who haven’t been in interracial relationships to understand that a lot (probably the vast majority) of the racism and prejudice that one can feel in this country is thinly veiled. Most people who do have some prejudice in them don’t want to fully advertise that they have those beliefs. A lot of racism/prejudice is expressed in very subtle ways—and my point is that this is not accidental. There is a reason why the dude still has not been able to give any sort of proper answer to why he would ask such an awkward question. The reason why he hasn’t been able to give an answer is because he doesn’t want to give an answer. He purposely said a statement that was open to a tiny bit of interpretation so that he could use that flexibility of interpretation to act like it was innocent. When you are in an interracial relationship—you will pick up on these things—and they will not be uncommon. Anyhow-—that’s just my 2 cents. I think it’s important to understand why people’s life experiences really play a part in how they interpret and digest things.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m not saying he’s lying here but this seems like backtracking a bit out of regret. There’s really no other explanation for “is he a thin man?” after hearing he’s from Africa. Could he explain it any other way?
What did your friend(s) that you said took offense think the guy was trying to say?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If this woman said “My dad is from Scotland” does anyone think the guy still would have asked “is he a thin man?” If not, it’s obvious what happened here.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I don’t know the guy and it certainly seems like you do know him well—so I’ll take your word for it. If he’s a good dude that just had a moment of verbal diarrhea where something questionable came out of his mouth unintentionally—thats probably a best case scenario. I would maybe just tell him to be a bit more careful with his words next time. First impressions are hard to change—and it’s not a good idea for him to have these types of awkward slip ups when meeting people.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I was at a work dinner once a long while back - I can be a bit socially awkward as well - and some guy was complaining about how his wife couldn’t make a decision about something, and I blurted out “well she is a woman”. A woman colleague at the table immediately expressed her displeasure. I had to apologize.
I don’t consider myself a sexist - but obviously that was a bad joke based on a stereotype and i immediately felt two inches tall. I surely didn’t sit there and pretend what I said was ok.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I don’t agree that it must have been a joke. Some Americans are perplexed by skinny people and say weird things to them. (Although, either way, I think it could be considered offensive.)
massraider
Footballguy
Said nobody
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Really? Never heard of anything like that. I’m pretty skinny.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
More likely he was ignorant as opposed to overtly racist. But sometimes offensive statements come from ignorance.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I’m going to bow out of this thread, but, yes, it happens.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
To me it would be similar to being in another country and someone asking if my mother was fat (since Americans are largely seen as overweight around the world). Would I be offended? No, but I’d think it was a dumbass question.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Good luck getting an answer to this. I've asked the exact same question twice and its been evaded twice.
So until some alternative meaning is offered, it's pretty clear (and becoming much clearer) that the obvious logical interpretation is the correct one.
Asking a dumb question based on stereotypes is not at all equivalent to being a racist. I'll trust Mitchie when he says that the guy isn't a racist since he actually knows him, while at the same time, if the girl said she was offended by the question, I'd agree that it was an offensive question to ask, especially if he didn't have a non-offensive reason for asking it.
ZADO
Footballguy
Ever?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This board is overwhelmingly made up of Gen Xers. We remember the Ethiopian famine and the assorted tasteless jokes around it. But that was 30-40 years ago and it's completely believable to me that many people may have no idea what this joke was even supposed to mean. It belongs to the same moment in time as "dead baby" jokes.
General Malaise
Footballguy
You mean the panties your mother laid out for you?
akfaK
Footballguy
Usually.
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