What does the confederate flag mean to you? (2 Viewers)

[Jayrod]

Good try there D. Nobody's buying it.

In most peoples' worlds when an employer comes out with a 5 hour training course for all Department Heads, referring to microaggressions as "racism" and "assaults", with a portion of the training dedicated to "interrupting" microaggressions, that usually corresponds to "you can't say it". But congrats on the mental gymnastics, and somehow convincing yourself that you were right and I was wrong. It brings back memories of an Abnormal Psychology course I took in college.

The stuff you're referring to is about deans, department chairs and faculty, right? If so, that's a pretty small minority of the individuals who inhabit a campus college daily. I took your original statement that "you can no longer say 'America is the land of opportunity' on a college campus in California" to be a far broader assertion than one limited to department faculty in the course of their classroom instruction.

Sorry dude. Not my job to spoonfeed all you fine Liberal minds. We talked about it at length in the other thread I referred to. The training may have been given to faculty only, but the instructions on how to police it (or as they call it "interrupt") apply to students as well. The general point stands - microaggressions, including "America is the land of opportunity", are formally defined by UCLA as "an act of systemic racism" and are about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

It's not so much about spoonfeeding as it is about the use of language to accurately express an intended point.

How would you have expressed it FA?

You did a decent job in subsequent posts of clarifying what you initially intended to express. And FA? Free agent? Fine arts? Fallen angel?

For axample. Duh.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Tide is turning for the racists....

 

[flapgreen]

Doesn't bother me

 

[In The Zone]

I don't understand the resentment towards the governor from south carolinians for her call to remove the flag from state grounds. Keep it in your homes/cars/boats/tattoos but why so adamant about it being flown there?

The good ole boys who don't want it removed don't realize how it can hurt revenue for the state. Sporting events not scheduled in SC in order to elude any controversy... maybe even recruitment for USC and Clemson. Think recruiting coaches don't try to use that flag and what it represents to deter blue chip athletes from going to school in SC?

I don't think college athletics are in a hurry to talk about the legacy of slavery given their business model. Besides, if they want to use the race angle, there is plenty to go after about how one of those schools was founded...

On that note, if people are looking for something to remove from the statehouse grounds, Pitchfork Ben represents much more racism and hatred than a memorial to Confederate soldiers. Yet his statue is right near the memorial to Confederate soldiers. The dude basically rose to power because he led a massacre of 7 members of a black militia during the Reconstruction. That is the type of thing that needs to be removed yesterday. I haven't heard a peep about it though.

True enough. I'd guess not many people know about Pitchfork Ben and his racism. That flag is what people focus on and what they think it represents, not the southern leaders of 120 years ago who were most likely racist, given the culture of the day.

Yep. Pitchfork's legacy and influence is still going strong at the University that he founded.

 

[TPW]

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/612377444830576640

Totally cool with banning the Confederate flag as long as we can put t-shirted Che douchesters into concentration camps.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Good try there D. Nobody's buying it.

In most peoples' worlds when an employer comes out with a 5 hour training course for all Department Heads, referring to microaggressions as "racism" and "assaults", with a portion of the training dedicated to "interrupting" microaggressions, that usually corresponds to "you can't say it". But congrats on the mental gymnastics, and somehow convincing yourself that you were right and I was wrong. It brings back memories of an Abnormal Psychology course I took in college.

The stuff you're referring to is about deans, department chairs and faculty, right? If so, that's a pretty small minority of the individuals who inhabit a campus college daily. I took your original statement that "you can no longer say 'America is the land of opportunity' on a college campus in California" to be a far broader assertion than one limited to department faculty in the course of their classroom instruction.

Sorry dude. Not my job to spoonfeed all you fine Liberal minds. We talked about it at length in the other thread I referred to. The training may have been given to faculty only, but the instructions on how to police it (or as they call it "interrupt") apply to students as well. The general point stands - microaggressions, including "America is the land of opportunity", are formally defined by UCLA as "an act of systemic racism" and are about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

It's not so much about spoonfeeding as it is about the use of language to accurately express an intended point.

You seem way too intelligent and decent minded to be supporting Tobias on this dumb crusade. My intended point was to highlight a situation where a poster asked for an example of PC Police gone awry. So while taking a #### at work I obliged with a quick example with reference to the other thread where details could be found if necessary. The point was spot on to anyone with half a brain or even the slightest amount of common sense. But carry on and keep expressing your outrage that it was misrepresented. It's adding a lot to the thread.

You and Tobias going back and forth seems a fair fight. I would suggest, however, that you do not pick an intellectual fight with bigbottom, you will be fighting well above your weight class.

 

[TobiasFunke]

You and Tobias going back and forth seems a fair fight. I would suggest, however, that you do not pick an intellectual fight with bigbottom, you will be fighting well above your weight class.

Hey, thanks

 

[bigbottom]

Good try there D. Nobody's buying it.

In most peoples' worlds when an employer comes out with a 5 hour training course for all Department Heads, referring to microaggressions as "racism" and "assaults", with a portion of the training dedicated to "interrupting" microaggressions, that usually corresponds to "you can't say it". But congrats on the mental gymnastics, and somehow convincing yourself that you were right and I was wrong. It brings back memories of an Abnormal Psychology course I took in college.

The stuff you're referring to is about deans, department chairs and faculty, right? If so, that's a pretty small minority of the individuals who inhabit a campus college daily. I took your original statement that "you can no longer say 'America is the land of opportunity' on a college campus in California" to be a far broader assertion than one limited to department faculty in the course of their classroom instruction.

Sorry dude. Not my job to spoonfeed all you fine Liberal minds. We talked about it at length in the other thread I referred to. The training may have been given to faculty only, but the instructions on how to police it (or as they call it "interrupt") apply to students as well. The general point stands - microaggressions, including "America is the land of opportunity", are formally defined by UCLA as "an act of systemic racism" and are about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

It's not so much about spoonfeeding as it is about the use of language to accurately express an intended point.

You seem way too intelligent and decent minded to be supporting Tobias on this dumb crusade. My intended point was to highlight a situation where a poster asked for an example of PC Police gone awry. So while taking a #### at work I obliged with a quick example with reference to the other thread where details could be found if necessary. The point was spot on to anyone with half a brain or even the slightest amount of common sense. But carry on and keep expressing your outrage that it was misrepresented. It's adding a lot to the thread.

Might I suggest that you consider switching to decaf?And thank you for the compliment, backhanded as it may be.

 

[The Commish]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

 

[Koya]

Luke is my hero

http://i.imgur.com/9hGWvf3.jpg

"Your wife is a man now and all of your guns have gotten gay married"

 

[Otis]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

 

[matttyl]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

As a self proclaimed small time civil war buff....this did make me laugh out loud.

 

[TPW]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

As a self proclaimed small time civil war buff....this did make me laugh out loud.

http://www.defense.gov/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf

The South generates 41% of all military recruits today. The North only accounts for 14%. The South's population and gross manufacturing output now meets or exceeds that of the North which is very much different than in 1861.

Who exactly would be the modern day version of Grant or Sherman?

 

[Slapdash]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

 

[urbanhack]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

As a self proclaimed small time civil war buff....this did make me laugh out loud.

http://www.defense.gov/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf

The South generates 41% of all military recruits today. The North only accounts for 14%. The South's population and gross manufacturing output now meets or exceeds that of the North which is very much different than in 1861.

Who exactly would be the modern day version of Grant or Sherman?

I bet you are a blast at parties.

 

[Henry Ford]

Good try there D. Nobody's buying it.

In most peoples' worlds when an employer comes out with a 5 hour training course for all Department Heads, referring to microaggressions as "racism" and "assaults", with a portion of the training dedicated to "interrupting" microaggressions, that usually corresponds to "you can't say it". But congrats on the mental gymnastics, and somehow convincing yourself that you were right and I was wrong. It brings back memories of an Abnormal Psychology course I took in college.

The stuff you're referring to is about deans, department chairs and faculty, right? If so, that's a pretty small minority of the individuals who inhabit a campus college daily. I took your original statement that "you can no longer say 'America is the land of opportunity' on a college campus in California" to be a far broader assertion than one limited to department faculty in the course of their classroom instruction.

Sorry dude. Not my job to spoonfeed all you fine Liberal minds. We talked about it at length in the other thread I referred to. The training may have been given to faculty only, but the instructions on how to police it (or as they call it "interrupt") apply to students as well. The general point stands - microaggressions, including "America is the land of opportunity", are formally defined by UCLA as "an act of systemic racism" and are about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

Wait - you're not allowed to fart in an elevator?

 

[Henry Ford]

Good try there D. Nobody's buying it.

In most peoples' worlds when an employer comes out with a 5 hour training course for all Department Heads, referring to microaggressions as "racism" and "assaults", with a portion of the training dedicated to "interrupting" microaggressions, that usually corresponds to "you can't say it". But congrats on the mental gymnastics, and somehow convincing yourself that you were right and I was wrong. It brings back memories of an Abnormal Psychology course I took in college.

The stuff you're referring to is about deans, department chairs and faculty, right? If so, that's a pretty small minority of the individuals who inhabit a campus college daily. I took your original statement that "you can no longer say 'America is the land of opportunity' on a college campus in California" to be a far broader assertion than one limited to department faculty in the course of their classroom instruction.

Sorry dude. Not my job to spoonfeed all you fine Liberal minds. We talked about it at length in the other thread I referred to. The training may have been given to faculty only, but the instructions on how to police it (or as they call it "interrupt") apply to students as well. The general point stands - microaggressions, including "America is the land of opportunity", are formally defined by UCLA as "an act of systemic racism" and are about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

It's not so much about spoonfeeding as it is about the use of language to accurately express an intended point.

You seem way too intelligent and decent minded to be supporting Tobias on this dumb crusade. My intended point was to highlight a situation where a poster asked for an example of PC Police gone awry. So while taking a #### at work I obliged with a quick example with reference to the other thread where details could be found if necessary. The point was spot on to anyone with half a brain or even the slightest amount of common sense. But carry on and keep expressing your outrage that it was misrepresented. It's adding a lot to the thread.

You and Tobias going back and forth seems a fair fight. I would suggest, however, that you do not pick an intellectual fight with bigbottom, you will be fighting well above your weight class.

As would most of us.

 

[moleculo]

Tide is turning for the racists....

this is a really good article.

 

[TPW]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

As a self proclaimed small time civil war buff....this did make me laugh out loud.

http://www.defense.gov/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf

The South generates 41% of all military recruits today. The North only accounts for 14%. The South's population and gross manufacturing output now meets or exceeds that of the North which is very much different than in 1861.

Who exactly would be the modern day version of Grant or Sherman?

I bet you are a blast at parties.

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

 

[msommer]

A bit on the curious side

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33245800

The town in Brazil that embraces the Confederate flagBy Bradley Campbell PRI's The World

• 24 June 2015
• From the section Magazine

Confederate flag debate

• Rebel flag protests spread across US
  
• Why do people still fly the Confederate flag?
  
• Video 'Take down the Confederate flag'
  
• Video Should Confederate flag be removed?
  

The debate over flying the Confederate flag has reignited in the US, but the American South isn't the only place in the world you'll see the emblem - it's also proudly displayed in the rural Brazilian town of Santa Barbara D'Oeste.

Once a year, the descendants of about 10,000 Confederates that fled the United States to Brazil after the US Civil War have a sort of family reunion.

"They all take part in stereotypically southern things like square dances, eating fried chicken and biscuits, and listening to George Strait," says Asher Levine, a Sao Paulo-based correspondent for Reuters.

"And a lot of Confederate flags everywhere, all over the place."

Despite being six or seven generations removed from their antebellum ancestry, many local Brazilians still maintain strong ties to Southern culture, and proudly wave the Confederate flag.

But for them, Levine says, the flag is much more of an ethnic symbol than a political one.

"They see themselves as ethnically American to some degree," he says.

"At an Italian festival, you would see people waving an Italian flag. Or on Saint Patrick's Day you see people waving the Irish flag. They see it that way. They don't have any political affiliation to it whatsoever."

Over time, the Southern white population has mixed with the Brazilians, resulting in people with a variety of different shades of skin colours waving the Confederate flag. Americans might be surprised by the resulting visual.

"A lot of people who are descendants of these confederates have African blood as well, so you'll see at the party people with dark skin waving the Confederate flag."

Levine says he talked to an American at the festival who was completely amazed at watching a young girl singing Amazing Grace - often sung in black churches across the US - while standing on top of a Confederate flag.

The banner is everywhere - kids wave mini-flags and women wear Confederate flag dresses.

"You know, the symbolism is totally lost on them, but for us it's quite a contrast," Levine says.

Despite being a very mixed-race country, Levine says that the killings in Charleston are being seen in Brazil as more of a gun safety issue than a racial issue.

"When they see an event like what happened in South Carolina last week, they wonder if it's really so much better in the United States, safety-wise."

I happen to have lived in Brazil for ten years and this is a fairly typical example of when things go :whoosh: down there

 

[TobiasFunke]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

As a self proclaimed small time civil war buff....this did make me laugh out loud.

http://www.defense.gov/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf

The South generates 41% of all military recruits today. The North only accounts for 14%. The South's population and gross manufacturing output now meets or exceeds that of the North which is very much different than in 1861.

Who exactly would be the modern day version of Grant or Sherman?

I bet you are a blast at parties.

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

It's not really that you're a buzzkill. It's more that you're the type of person who thinks progressives fantasize about some kind of modern day conquest of Southerners.

 

[TPW]

Amazon is reporting that Confederate flag sales have gone up 3000%.

http://i.imgur.com/Rgp8zPw.jpg

As a self proclaimed small time civil war buff....this did make me laugh out loud.

http://www.defense.gov/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf

The South generates 41% of all military recruits today. The North only accounts for 14%. The South's population and gross manufacturing output now meets or exceeds that of the North which is very much different than in 1861.

Who exactly would be the modern day version of Grant or Sherman?

I bet you are a blast at parties.

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

It's not really that you're a buzzkill. It's more that you're the type of person who thinks progressives fantasize about some kind of modern day conquest of Southerners.

Check out the second quote in my sig line.

 

[The Commish]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

It's not really that you're a buzzkill. It's more that you're the type of person who thinks progressives fantasize about some kind of modern day conquest of Southerners.

Check out the second quote in my sig line.

My bad. Doing that sort of thing with your sig line is also a very good reason to suspect that you are no fun at parties. Sorry I left that out.

 

[TPW]

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

It's not really that you're a buzzkill. It's more that you're the type of person who thinks progressives fantasize about some kind of modern day conquest of Southerners.

Check out the second quote in my sig line.

My bad. Doing that sort of thing with your sig line is also a very good reason to suspect that you are no fun at parties. Sorry I left that out.

I highly doubt you would have issue with such if some virulent racist spewed similar venom. But kudos to you for standing behind one your own with the typical leftist affinity for lack of personal accountability. Your progressive bonafides are confirmed.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

It's not really that you're a buzzkill. It's more that you're the type of person who thinks progressives fantasize about some kind of modern day conquest of Southerners.

Check out the second quote in my sig line.

My bad. Doing that sort of thing with your sig line is also a very good reason to suspect that you are no fun at parties. Sorry I left that out.

I highly doubt you would have issue with such if some virulent racist spewed similar venom. But kudos to you for standing behind one your own with the typical leftist affinity for lack of personal accountability. Your progressive bonafides are confirmed.

The only thing I'm standing behind is that you would not be any fun at parties.

 

[TPW]

Sorry to be a such a buzzkill. But the enduring progressive fantasy of some kind of modern day conquest of those hated Southerners is just that, a fantasy.

It's not really that you're a buzzkill. It's more that you're the type of person who thinks progressives fantasize about some kind of modern day conquest of Southerners.

Check out the second quote in my sig line.

My bad. Doing that sort of thing with your sig line is also a very good reason to suspect that you are no fun at parties. Sorry I left that out.

I highly doubt you would have issue with such if some virulent racist spewed similar venom. But kudos to you for standing behind one your own with the typical leftist affinity for lack of personal accountability. Your progressive bonafides are confirmed.

The only thing I'm standing behind is that you would not be any fun at parties.

Wah.

 

[Slapdash]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

 

[The Commish]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

 

[Todd Andrews]

treason

 

[TobiasFunke]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

 

[moleculo]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

I would be talking about it. I've wanted that thing down for a while, and was pushing for it to come down before the half-mast stuff broke.

 

[matttyl]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

Correct. So what happens if the "battle flag" is banned/restricted/whatever term you want to use and stores and online retailers stop selling it - but then this ***official flag*** starts being used in it's place? Will it also be banned/restricted, thus causing a few more states to have to change their flags and seals?

 

[The Commish]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

So, it'd have just popped back up into conversation again on it's own? This is pretty big leap even by FFA standards. I mean, this thread hadn't been touched for 6ish months, but volume is much more intense this time around.

 

[matttyl]

A bit on the curious side

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33245800

The town in Brazil that embraces the Confederate flagBy Bradley Campbell PRI's The World

• 24 June 2015
• From the section Magazine

Confederate flag debate

• Rebel flag protests spread across US
  
• Why do people still fly the Confederate flag?
  
• Video 'Take down the Confederate flag'
  
• Video Should Confederate flag be removed?
  

The debate over flying the Confederate flag has reignited in the US, but the American South isn't the only place in the world you'll see the emblem - it's also proudly displayed in the rural Brazilian town of Santa Barbara D'Oeste.

Once a year, the descendants of about 10,000 Confederates that fled the United States to Brazil after the US Civil War have a sort of family reunion.

"They all take part in stereotypically southern things like square dances, eating fried chicken and biscuits, and listening to George Strait," says Asher Levine, a Sao Paulo-based correspondent for Reuters.

"And a lot of Confederate flags everywhere, all over the place."

Despite being six or seven generations removed from their antebellum ancestry, many local Brazilians still maintain strong ties to Southern culture, and proudly wave the Confederate flag.

But for them, Levine says, the flag is much more of an ethnic symbol than a political one.

"They see themselves as ethnically American to some degree," he says.

"At an Italian festival, you would see people waving an Italian flag. Or on Saint Patrick's Day you see people waving the Irish flag. They see it that way. They don't have any political affiliation to it whatsoever."

Over time, the Southern white population has mixed with the Brazilians, resulting in people with a variety of different shades of skin colours waving the Confederate flag. Americans might be surprised by the resulting visual.

"A lot of people who are descendants of these confederates have African blood as well, so you'll see at the party people with dark skin waving the Confederate flag."

Levine says he talked to an American at the festival who was completely amazed at watching a young girl singing Amazing Grace - often sung in black churches across the US - while standing on top of a Confederate flag.

The banner is everywhere - kids wave mini-flags and women wear Confederate flag dresses.

"You know, the symbolism is totally lost on them, but for us it's quite a contrast," Levine says.

Despite being a very mixed-race country, Levine says that the killings in Charleston are being seen in Brazil as more of a gun safety issue than a racial issue.

"When they see an event like what happened in South Carolina last week, they wonder if it's really so much better in the United States, safety-wise."

I happen to have lived in Brazil for ten years and this is a fairly typical example of when things go :whoosh: down there

...or of the exact same symbol meaning vastly different things to different people. They obviously don't view it as a racist symbol at all anymore.

 

[The Commish]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

Correct. So what happens if the "battle flag" is banned/restricted/whatever term you want to use and stores and online retailers stop selling it - but then this ***official flag*** starts being used in it's place? Will it also be banned/restricted, thus causing a few more states to have to change their flags and seals?

There are state flags that have the "battle flag X" as part of the flag.....I suspect, as Slapdash said, no one would know what the flag of the confederacy was, and they wouldn't care.

ETA: Maybe it's just Mississippi?

 

[TPW]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

And that is really what it comes down to for you guys, isn't it?

I think the Confederate flag is an anachronism but whether or not someone displays it should have absolutely nothing to do with how they feel. As a matter of fact, that is the absolute worst possible justification for its removal. If we're going to go down the road of removing items from public display on the grounds that they disturb someone's emotional state then it is only a matter of time before the American flag itself is taken down because it is culturally offensive to illegal immigrants.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

So, it'd have just popped back up into conversation again on it's own? This is pretty big leap even by FFA standards. I mean, this thread hadn't been touched for 6ish months, but volume is much more intense this time around.

It popped into the conversation because a white supremacist in the state that flies it on its capitol grounds killed nine black people. Nobody gave a #### about where it sat on the flagpole.

This was up the day after the attacks. It doesn't say how embarrassing it is that the flag can't be lowered, because nobody even know about that mess. It says take the flag down.

 

[moleculo]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

Correct. So what happens if the "battle flag" is banned/restricted/whatever term you want to use and stores and online retailers stop selling it - but then this ***official flag*** starts being used in it's place? Will it also be banned/restricted, thus causing a few more states to have to change their flags and seals?

Personally, I think the ***official*** flag is less of a big deal, but still not ok to fly at the State House. AFAIK, this is not the flag waved by white supremacists, the KKK, neo-nazis, and all of the rest.

This was the flag of a sovereign nation. South Carolina is part of the US, and I don't think it's appropriate to fly the flag of a sovereign nation on official government property.

Are there other examples where they do that? Texas, I suppose, as their state flag was the flag of the Republic of Texas. If you wanted to commemorate other countries who have had sovereignty over SC, you would have to include England.

 

[matttyl]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

Correct. So what happens if the "battle flag" is banned/restricted/whatever term you want to use and stores and online retailers stop selling it - but then this ***official flag*** starts being used in it's place? Will it also be banned/restricted, thus causing a few more states to have to change their flags and seals?

There are state flags that have the "battle flag X" as part of the flag.....I suspect, as Slapdash said, no one would know what the flag of the confederacy was, and they wouldn't care.

I've brought that up a few times here already. Should Florida and Alabama also change their flags because of that (as Mississippi is likely to do)? If the "stars and bars" is going to replace the battle flag on the top of the Duke's charger, or on redneck t-shirts, or on top of public grounds, or on tombstones.....will we have the same fight in 10 years that we're having now because now all of a sudden the "stars and bars" flag means something new, or is at least more commonly recognized?

 

[TobiasFunke]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

And that is really what it comes down to for you guys, isn't it?

I think the Confederate flag is an anachronism but whether or not someone displays it should have absolutely nothing to do with how they feel. As a matter of fact, that is the absolute worst possible justification for its removal. If we're going to go down the road of removing items from public display on the grounds that they disturb someone's emotional state then it is only a matter of time before the American flag itself is taken down because it is culturally offensive to illegal immigrants.

I'm not going to engage you on this. I don't find you at all insightful, and you have a terrible habit of responding to what you want to believe people said or think rather than what they actually said because you want to turn everything into an "us vs them" battle and you need to assign everyone to a side. I just thought it was fun to contemplate how truly awful you must be at parties. I mean, say what you will about me at parties too, but at least my wife has a nice rack and I know how to find drugs for people.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

And that is really what it comes down to for you guys, isn't it?

I think the Confederate flag is an anachronism but whether or not someone displays it should have absolutely nothing to do with how they feel. As a matter of fact, that is the absolute worst possible justification for its removal. If we're going to go down the road of removing items from public display on the grounds that they disturb someone's emotional state then it is only a matter of time before the American flag itself is taken down because it is culturally offensive to illegal immigrants.

I think we both know where it ends, Allen.

 

[Slapdash]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I don't think it is a good idea either.

 

[The Commish]

Alabama
Arkansas
Mississippi

Are the three states that have reference to the confederacy in their state flags. Do we care?

 

[matttyl]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

Correct. So what happens if the "battle flag" is banned/restricted/whatever term you want to use and stores and online retailers stop selling it - but then this ***official flag*** starts being used in it's place? Will it also be banned/restricted, thus causing a few more states to have to change their flags and seals?

Personally, I think the ***official*** flag is less of a big deal, but still not ok to fly at the State House. AFAIK, this is not the flag waved by white supremacists, the KKK, neo-nazis, and all of the rest.

This was the flag of a sovereign nation. South Carolina is part of the US, and I don't think it's appropriate to fly the flag of a sovereign nation on official government property.

Are there other examples where they do that? Texas, I suppose, as their state flag was the flag of the Republic of Texas. If you wanted to commemorate other countries who have had sovereignty over SC, you would have to include England.

What I'm asking is what if it becomes that? And more than just the types of people you listed, but for anyone who may genuinely have some sort of "Southern pride" behind it? As Amazon, Wal-mart, and Target already have removed the battle flag and it's derivatives from shelves (with others sure to follow), what if all the people and organizations and groups who today fly (or otherwise show off) the battle flag simply start flying the ***official flag*** which would presumably still be available? Would that symbol then be banned/restricted as well when we have this fight all over again in 10 years?

Look at where this current situation really started - Dylan Roof, and a picture of him with the battle flag and with that symbol on his license plate. What if instead of that flag, he was waiving the ***official one***? Would those retailers have done the same thing?

 

[TPW]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

And that is really what it comes down to for you guys, isn't it?

I think the Confederate flag is an anachronism but whether or not someone displays it should have absolutely nothing to do with how they feel. As a matter of fact, that is the absolute worst possible justification for its removal. If we're going to go down the road of removing items from public display on the grounds that they disturb someone's emotional state then it is only a matter of time before the American flag itself is taken down because it is culturally offensive to illegal immigrants.

I'm not going to engage you on this. I don't find you at all insightful, and you have a terrible habit of responding to what you want to believe people said or think rather than what they actually said because you want to turn everything into an "us vs them" battle and you need to assign everyone to a side. I just thought it was fun to contemplate how truly awful you must be at parties. I mean, say what you will about me at parties too, but at least my wife has a nice rack and I know how to find drugs for people.

I'm sorry you find the recounting of your own words so disturbing. Perhaps we should now adopt a board policy of removing posts whenever someone reads something they do not like.

You've also obviously mistaken me for someone who cares what you do in your own time.

 

[Buckfast 1]

What This Cruel War Was Over: The meaning of the Confederate flag is best discerned in the words of those who bore it.

 

[matttyl]

Alabama
Arkansas
Mississippi

Are the three states that have reference to the confederacy in their state flags. Do we care?

Add Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina. 7 in total, as well as a few state seals and coat of arms and such.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/21/how-the-confederacy-lives-on-in-the-flags-of-seven-southern-states/

As I asked a few days ago....where do we draw the line? Are roads to be next?

 

[The Commish]

Personally, I think the ***official*** flag is less of a big deal, but still not ok to fly at the State House. AFAIK, this is not the flag waved by white supremacists, the KKK, neo-nazis, and all of the rest.

This was the flag of a sovereign nation. South Carolina is part of the US, and I don't think it's appropriate to fly the flag of a sovereign nation on official government property.

Are there other examples where they do that? Texas, I suppose, as their state flag was the flag of the Republic of Texas. If you wanted to commemorate other countries who have had sovereignty over SC, you would have to include England.

At least you're honest about it For me, I'd be more pissed about the flag of the confederacy being flown. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, this battle flag really does mean different things to different people. It has no single representation.

ETA: And some of those groups listed above, along with many other hate organizations fly Old Glory with pride, but we don't let them hijack it and demand it be lowered. This is why, imo, context matters.

 

[Frostillicus]

So, while at the beech this weekend, I start seeing the headlines in the papers about removing the "confederate flag" from gov't grounds etc. I got to wondering. If they removed it and replaced it with this, would anyone get upset?

They probably wouldn't know what the #### it is.

I tend to agree...yet, all these racist speeches that were made during that time were made while that flag was flying. It's staggering, how little we know about our own history when you think about it.

Seems like a good time to erase more of it

Even if it could be erased, I'm not sure that's a good idea. I think it's important that we learn our history and we embrace the problems we've gone through. That's the only way we can progress and grow. Of course, I don't have to have a flag flying to learn about it, so I really don't have an issue with taking it down. If this little exercise has taught us anything, it's that it was short sighted to not have a "half mast" option at the memorial. Had that been the case, we wouldn't be talking about this flag in any sort of substantive manner today.

I'm pretty certain that we'd still be talking about it even if they'd been flying it at half-mast.

I'd say that if this exercise has taught us anything it's that it's pretty silly to fly a Confederate flag of any kind, regardless of how recognizable it may be to the average person, because the Confederacy was really really bad and embracing it should make you feel bad.

And that is really what it comes down to for you guys, isn't it?

I think the Confederate flag is an anachronism but whether or not someone displays it should have absolutely nothing to do with how they feel. As a matter of fact, that is the absolute worst possible justification for its removal. If we're going to go down the road of removing items from public display on the grounds that they disturb someone's emotional state then it is only a matter of time before the American flag itself is taken down because it is culturally offensive to illegal immigrants.

I'm not going to engage you on this. I don't find you at all insightful, and you have a terrible habit of responding to what you want to believe people said or think rather than what they actually said because you want to turn everything into an "us vs them" battle and you need to assign everyone to a side. I just thought it was fun to contemplate how truly awful you must be at parties. I mean, say what you will about me at parties too, but at least my wife has a nice rack and I know how to find drugs for people.

Pics of rack?