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What does the confederate flag mean to you? (1 Viewer)

Mjolnirs said:
BustedKnuckles said:
guilty by association in this case
Click to expand...
Sadly, you are correct.
Officer Pete Malloy said:
You're absolutely right.

I honestly believe that your attachment to the flag has nothing to do with racism.

(of course I still have a hard time understanding your ultrapatriotism for S.C. but we'll forget about that now)

The problem is that groups like the KKK have taken your beloved flag and corrupted it. It IS a symbol for white power.

Now it sucks for people like you that see the flag as a symbol for southern heritage/pride that a bunch of maniacs have co-opted it into something disgusting but that's life.

You can claim "heritage, not hate" all you want. You might be 100% sincere. But a lot of people aren't going to care.
Click to expand...
I have to tell you that the bolded part of your reply really hit me this morning. If I accomplish nothing else in this thread, that comment makes it worth my time. I sincerely thank you for that.Regarding the parenthetical part, it's one of those things that if you don't get it, you don't get it. I can only explain my part.

On the last sentence, I know a lot of people aren't going to care. But, if I lived my life being overly concerned about what everyone cares about, I wouldn't be me ... I would also have much shorter hair!

renesauz said:
That isn't the point. No matter what you or anyone else thinks of that flag, the simple fact is that it's been hijacked by every hate group and radical anti-government group in America. For that reason alone a REASONABLE person who doesn't want to be associated with any of those groups woud distance themselves as much as possible from the thing, no matter what they think it is SUPPOSED to mean.

It's really not that complicated.
Click to expand...
You're right as well, it has been hijacked. As an SCV member though, I have to be one of the voices expressing our position.Here is a simple categorization, from my point of view, of why individuals display the flag.

Going from least racist/antagonistic/anti-establishment to greatest:

*SCV/UDC

*Love the South, but haven't committed to the above groups.

*Woo hoo I'm from the South! (or love Southern Rock, or NASCAR, or whatever)

*EFF YOU!!! (directed at government, media, etc.)

*Hate Groups.
Click to expand...
And if there were enough people like yourself, it wouldn't have been hijacked in the first place. I know many people like you. You're not alone. I don't really understand the "but bad people hijacked your symbol so it's forever bad and there's nothing you can do about it" thought process. That's about as unAmerican as I can think of at it's core. NOTE: I am not saying the people who are of this opinion are less American etc. If there's something one believes is worth fighting for, then fight for it. Throwing up our hands in a collective "meh" attitude is part of the reason this country's in the position it is.

 
Went to get coffee this am. On the way I say a jacked up Ford F-350 with a big ### American flag in the center of the bed surrounded by 6 different confederate flag versions.

I said good for you. I also said good for me, because I know who you are now.

 
The Commish said:
Mjolnirs said:
BustedKnuckles said:
guilty by association in this case
Click to expand...
Sadly, you are correct.
Officer Pete Malloy said:
You're absolutely right.

I honestly believe that your attachment to the flag has nothing to do with racism.

(of course I still have a hard time understanding your ultrapatriotism for S.C. but we'll forget about that now)

The problem is that groups like the KKK have taken your beloved flag and corrupted it. It IS a symbol for white power.

Now it sucks for people like you that see the flag as a symbol for southern heritage/pride that a bunch of maniacs have co-opted it into something disgusting but that's life.

You can claim "heritage, not hate" all you want. You might be 100% sincere. But a lot of people aren't going to care.
Click to expand...
I have to tell you that the bolded part of your reply really hit me this morning. If I accomplish nothing else in this thread, that comment makes it worth my time. I sincerely thank you for that.Regarding the parenthetical part, it's one of those things that if you don't get it, you don't get it. I can only explain my part.

On the last sentence, I know a lot of people aren't going to care. But, if I lived my life being overly concerned about what everyone cares about, I wouldn't be me ... I would also have much shorter hair!

renesauz said:
That isn't the point. No matter what you or anyone else thinks of that flag, the simple fact is that it's been hijacked by every hate group and radical anti-government group in America. For that reason alone a REASONABLE person who doesn't want to be associated with any of those groups woud distance themselves as much as possible from the thing, no matter what they think it is SUPPOSED to mean.

It's really not that complicated.
Click to expand...
You're right as well, it has been hijacked. As an SCV member though, I have to be one of the voices expressing our position.Here is a simple categorization, from my point of view, of why individuals display the flag.

Going from least racist/antagonistic/anti-establishment to greatest:

*SCV/UDC

*Love the South, but haven't committed to the above groups.

*Woo hoo I'm from the South! (or love Southern Rock, or NASCAR, or whatever)

*EFF YOU!!! (directed at government, media, etc.)

*Hate Groups.
Click to expand...
And if there were enough people like yourself, it wouldn't have been hijacked in the first place. I know many people like you. You're not alone. I don't really understand the "but bad people hijacked your symbol so it's forever bad and there's nothing you can do about it" thought process. That's about as unAmerican as I can think of at it's core. NOTE: I am not saying the people who are of this opinion are less American etc. If there's something one believes is worth fighting for, then fight for it. Throwing up our hands in a collective "meh" attitude is part of the reason this country's in the position it is.
Click to expand...
So what actions could one take to prevent this?

 
All I know is that if I put a sticker on my car, or a flag on my property, or wore a t-shirt that would probably make a lot of people think I hated minorities, especially if that was not my intention , I wouldn't do it.

Hell, at the very least because I wouldn't want to spend a bunch of time defending myself "no no no...you don't get it...I'm paying tribute to my great,great, grandpappy who was in the Calahoolahoochie Lincoln Buttrapers".

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
The Commish said:
Mjolnirs said:
BustedKnuckles said:
guilty by association in this case
Click to expand...
Sadly, you are correct.
Officer Pete Malloy said:
You're absolutely right.

I honestly believe that your attachment to the flag has nothing to do with racism.

(of course I still have a hard time understanding your ultrapatriotism for S.C. but we'll forget about that now)

The problem is that groups like the KKK have taken your beloved flag and corrupted it. It IS a symbol for white power.

Now it sucks for people like you that see the flag as a symbol for southern heritage/pride that a bunch of maniacs have co-opted it into something disgusting but that's life.

You can claim "heritage, not hate" all you want. You might be 100% sincere. But a lot of people aren't going to care.
Click to expand...
I have to tell you that the bolded part of your reply really hit me this morning. If I accomplish nothing else in this thread, that comment makes it worth my time. I sincerely thank you for that.Regarding the parenthetical part, it's one of those things that if you don't get it, you don't get it. I can only explain my part.

On the last sentence, I know a lot of people aren't going to care. But, if I lived my life being overly concerned about what everyone cares about, I wouldn't be me ... I would also have much shorter hair!

renesauz said:
That isn't the point. No matter what you or anyone else thinks of that flag, the simple fact is that it's been hijacked by every hate group and radical anti-government group in America. For that reason alone a REASONABLE person who doesn't want to be associated with any of those groups woud distance themselves as much as possible from the thing, no matter what they think it is SUPPOSED to mean.

It's really not that complicated.
Click to expand...
You're right as well, it has been hijacked. As an SCV member though, I have to be one of the voices expressing our position.Here is a simple categorization, from my point of view, of why individuals display the flag.

Going from least racist/antagonistic/anti-establishment to greatest:

*SCV/UDC

*Love the South, but haven't committed to the above groups.

*Woo hoo I'm from the South! (or love Southern Rock, or NASCAR, or whatever)

*EFF YOU!!! (directed at government, media, etc.)

*Hate Groups.
Click to expand...
And if there were enough people like yourself, it wouldn't have been hijacked in the first place. I know many people like you. You're not alone. I don't really understand the "but bad people hijacked your symbol so it's forever bad and there's nothing you can do about it" thought process. That's about as unAmerican as I can think of at it's core. NOTE: I am not saying the people who are of this opinion are less American etc. If there's something one believes is worth fighting for, then fight for it. Throwing up our hands in a collective "meh" attitude is part of the reason this country's in the position it is.
Click to expand...
So what actions could one take to prevent this?
Click to expand...
Exactly what Mjolnirs is doing in this thread :shrug:

I know it gets in the way of the faux outrage and :hophead: of it all, but reality is, this flag means different things to different people whether we like it or not. To project an attitude onto others without understanding why they are flying/displaying it is lazy and says more about those projecting than anything else.

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
All I know is that if I put a sticker on my car, or a flag on my property, or wore a t-shirt that would probably make a lot of people think I hated minorities, especially if that was not my intention , I wouldn't do it.

Hell, at the very least because I wouldn't want to spend a bunch of time defending myself "no no no...you don't get it...I'm paying tribute to my great,great, grandpappy who was in the Calahoolahoochie Lincoln Buttrapers".
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you're a California Yankee lover, so nobody really cares what you do.

 
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves.

First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.

 
Henry Ford said:
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves.

First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.
Click to expand...
You paint far too rosy of a picture, my friend. We know how this ends.

Seriously- didn't we solve this last week? Instead of taking stuff down just add Outkast to the mix. Who's unhappy about that solution? Nobody. There you go.

 
Henry Ford said:
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves. First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.
Click to expand...
You don't find any of this troubling? Overnight the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence is now viewed as persona non grata?
 
If the Democrat Party is going to banish the names of Jefferson and Jackson due to their ties to slavery, then why doesn't the Democrat Party banish the name Democrat Party due to its ties to slavery?

 
Hum yeah Henry about that avatar if yours, been doing a little research and as it turns out.... you *do* associate yourself with all aspects of that symbol you post under, don't you?

 
Gary Coal Man said:
If the Democrat Party is going to banish the names of Jefferson and Jackson due to their ties to slavery, then why doesn't the Democrat Party banish the name Democrat Party due to its ties to slavery?
Click to expand...
GCM - right on cue with the best damn post in this thread so far.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
General Tso said:
Henry Ford said:
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves. First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.
Click to expand...
You don't find any of this troubling? Overnight the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence is now viewed as persona non grata?
Click to expand...
Take it easy on the melodrama there, Tso. It's the renaming of a Connecticut fundraising dinner, not the removal of a memorial on the National Mall. I assume they renamed it in order to avoid the NAACP hampering their fundraising efforts. If you think this is the first time a political fundraiser bended to the will of a special interest group I have some pretty bad news for you.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Henry Ford said:
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves.

First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.
Click to expand...
You paint far too rosy of a picture, my friend. We know how this ends.

Seriously- didn't we solve this last week? Instead of taking stuff down just add Outkast to the mix. Who's unhappy about that solution? Nobody. There you go.
Click to expand...
:lmao:

I'd seriously take a detour someday to go see that if they put Outkast up there. That would be awesome.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Since the South Carolina ruling and removal I have never seen more confederate flags being flown in Florida.
Click to expand...
I bet the KKK is pissed about that. "Listen, we're just flying the Confederate battle flag to show our support for re-segregation and the superiority of the Caucasian race. That's it. Don't you dare lump us in with Floridians, we don't want to be associated with that mess."

 
TobiasFunke said:
Ditka Butkus said:
Since the South Carolina ruling and removal I have never seen more confederate flags being flown in Florida.
Click to expand...
I bet the KKK is pissed about that. "Listen, we're just flying the Confederate battle flag to show our support for re-segregation and the superiority of the Caucasian race. That's it. Don't you dare lump us in with Floridians, we don't want to be associated with that mess."
Click to expand...
:lmao:

 
TobiasFunke said:
TobiasFunke said:
matttyl said:
Where does it end? How much history will be rewritten? Mt. Rushmore has depictions of men who owned other men - should that be sand blasted as well?
Click to expand...
None. No history is being rewritten. Street names and monuments and rock carvings are not history. The last one might be art. Or maybe history if you count the time a legendary director shot a famous scene there. But that's a stretch.
Click to expand...
Also, there is a huge difference between honoring someone who did something bad and honoring someone because of the bad thing they did. Nobody's building memorials and naming things after Washington and Jefferson because they owned slaves, they're doing it because of some other good stuff they did. Their slave ownership is unfortunate but it's no more connected to their monuments than Michael Jordan's gambling and adultery is connected to the statue of him outside the Bulls' stadium. But they are building memorials and naming things after Davis and Lee because of their efforts in the fight to retain slavery. It's a totally different thing, and I'm not sure why the Don Lemons and Louis Farrakhans and conservative slippery slopers of the world miss it.
Click to expand...
This is a really good point. Let's add the CT NAACP & CT Democratic Party to this list, shall we.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lunatics literally trying to dig up graves now-

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — A group was fed up with waiting, so they got a shovel and dug up a patch of grass next to Nathan Bedford Forrest’s grave and statue in a public park in the Medical District.

“If he’s gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone,” said Isaac Richmond with Commission on Religion and Racism. ” We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.”

http://wreg.com/2015/07/22/group-takes-a-shovel-to-confederate-generals-grave/

 
Widbil83 said:
Lunatics literally trying to dig up graves now

MEMPHIS, Tenn. A group was fed up with waiting, so they got a shovel and dug up a patch of grass next to Nathan Bedford Forrests grave and statue in a public park in the Medical District.

If hes gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone, said Isaac Richmond with Commission on Religion and Racism. We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.

http://wreg.com/2015/07/22/group-takes-a-shovel-to-confederate-generals-grave/
Click to expand...
We need to hear from the Westboro Baptist Church to put this in perspective.

 
Widbil83 said:
Lunatics literally trying to dig up graves now-

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — A group was fed up with waiting, so they got a shovel and dug up a patch of grass next to Nathan Bedford Forrest’s grave and statue in a public park in the Medical District.

“If he’s gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone,” said Isaac Richmond with Commission on Religion and Racism. ” We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.”

http://wreg.com/2015/07/22/group-takes-a-shovel-to-confederate-generals-grave/
Click to expand...
and WTF are they gonna do with him when they dig him up? Burn the body.

 
In The Zone said:
Widbil83 said:
Lunatics literally trying to dig up graves now-

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — A group was fed up with waiting, so they got a shovel and dug up a patch of grass next to Nathan Bedford Forrest’s grave and statue in a public park in the Medical District.

“If he’s gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone,” said Isaac Richmond with Commission on Religion and Racism. ” We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.”

http://wreg.com/2015/07/22/group-takes-a-shovel-to-confederate-generals-grave/
Click to expand...
and WTF are they gonna do with him when they dig him up? Burn the body.
Click to expand...
Obviously not good enough.

 
TobiasFunke said:
General Tso said:
Henry Ford said:
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves. First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.
Click to expand...
You don't find any of this troubling? Overnight the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence is now viewed as persona non grata?
Click to expand...
Take it easy on the melodrama there, Tso. It's the renaming of a Connecticut fundraising dinner, not the removal of a memorial on the National Mall. I assume they renamed it in order to avoid the NAACP hampering their fundraising efforts. If you think this is the first time a political fundraiser bended to the will of a special interest group I have some pretty bad news for you.
Click to expand...
Nice try, but it is going to take some heavy duty super duper industrial strength solvent to scrub the ninny out of Tso.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Widbil83 said:
Lunatics literally trying to dig up graves now-

MEMPHIS, Tenn. A group was fed up with waiting, so they got a shovel and dug up a patch of grass next to Nathan Bedford Forrests grave and statue in a public park in the Medical District.

If hes gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone, said Isaac Richmond with Commission on Religion and Racism. We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.

http://wreg.com/2015/07/22/group-takes-a-shovel-to-confederate-generals-grave/
Click to expand...
Good. He should have been tried for war crimes. The guy seemed to actually enjoy war.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In The Zone said:
Widbil83 said:
Lunatics literally trying to dig up graves now-

MEMPHIS, Tenn. A group was fed up with waiting, so they got a shovel and dug up a patch of grass next to Nathan Bedford Forrests grave and statue in a public park in the Medical District.

If hes gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone, said Isaac Richmond with Commission on Religion and Racism. We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.

http://wreg.com/2015/07/22/group-takes-a-shovel-to-confederate-generals-grave/
Click to expand...
and WTF are they gonna do with him when they dig him up? Burn the body.
Click to expand...
I doubt they thought that far ahead. We aren't dealing with rocket scientists here.

 
A few elementary kids went to a local school board asking them to change the name of Robert E. Lee Elementary because it "hurts their feelings."

 
General Tso said:
Henry Ford said:
General Tso said:
Slippery slope? What slippery slope?

http://m.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Seriously - how long before the currency is changed?
Click to expand...
And then, the next thing you know we'll stop venerating all the old slave owners just because they owned slaves. First we stop naming dinners off of them, then they come off the money, and before you know it we're all gay married and living on the dole from the State, eating Big Macs for $1 and talking on our Obamaphones while we sit in a doctor's office for our free healthcare paid for by some poor oil company that had to pay a .5% tax on its earnings because it moved all its financials offshore.

And do we really want to live in a world like that? DO WE? You tell 'em, Tso.
Click to expand...
You don't find any of this troubling? Overnight the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence is now viewed as persona non grata?
Click to expand...
Persona non grata? He has a memorial that's like 150 feet high in D.C. He's on money. His name is virtually everywhere.

 
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