What does the confederate flag mean to you? (1 Viewer)

[thayman]

Should we deem all those who fly the American Stars and Stripes as racist too? After all, not only did the country officially endorse the institution of slavery for its first 100 years.....but it also turned a blind eye to Jim Crowe laws and segregation (all over the country) well into the 1960s.

The Stars and Stripes is the also same flag that is view upon by blacks as ultimately fighting to break these horrendous actions and laws...while the confederate flag represents to blacks those that attempted to continue them.

Continue them?

I see you missed the post and fact that Georgia added the confederate flag in 1956 as show of disdain vs supreme court decisons and the civil rights movement.Evidently you also missed the ruling white south enabling the KKK to proudly use the confederate flag as a symbol of their organization...while the KKK lynched, murdered and burned blacks to the cross.

Both of the parties you mentioned are completely within their right to protest. The swastika is a Hindu symbol that the Nazi's turned into a hate symbol. Some Hindus have a swastika up in their home, it doesn't mean that they are Nazis. Just like if someone has Confederate Flag in their yard it doesn't mean they are in the KKK

 

[meanjoegreen]

I see you missed the post and fact that Georgia added the confederate flag in 1956 as show of disdain vs supreme court decisons and the civil rights movement.Evidently you also missed the ruling white south enabling the KKK to proudly use the confederate flag as a symbol of their organization...while the KKK lynched, murdered and burned blacks to the cross.

Hardly any KKK groups use the Confederate Flag these days, and the only known Chapters that use the flag today, are 2 Chapters in the North. The largest KKK chapters are in the North too. I know the Confederate Group in the South, asked the Klan to stop using the flag. My wife refuses to let hate groups change her perception of the flag.

 

[dawgtrails]

I see you missed the post and fact that Georgia added the confederate flag in 1956 as show of disdain vs supreme court decisons and the civil rights movement.Evidently you also missed the ruling white south enabling the KKK to proudly use the confederate flag as a symbol of their organization...while the KKK lynched, murdered and burned blacks to the cross.

Hardly any KKK groups use the Confederate Flag these days, and the only known Chapters that use the flag today, are 2 Chapters in the North. The largest KKK chapters are in the North too. I know the Confederate Group in the South, asked the Klan to stop using the flag. My wife refuses to let hate groups change her perception of the flag.

Thats fine if it is her perception.However, she, and many others need to realize that to large percentage of the population, the confederate flag means more hateful things than "southern pride".

 

[meanjoegreen]

Thats fine if it is her perception.However, she, and many others need to realize that to large percentage of the population, the confederate flag means more hateful things than "southern pride".

Of course she knows the flag has been used as a hate symbol by hate groups, but she sees the flag as a symbol of freedom, as well as "southern pride." She is half black.

 

[Funkley]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

 

[dawgtrails]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

 

[FatMax]

What the hell is Southern pride? And better yet, why the hell would anyone be proud of anything in the South's history?

When I see someone flying confederate flag, I think don't necessarily see a person I think is racist. I see an ignorant, knuckle-dragging redneck. I will concede that the the two are not mutually exclusive however.

 

[Funkley]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

 

[Christo]

I see you missed the post and fact that Georgia added the confederate flag in 1956 as show of disdain vs supreme court decisons and the civil rights movement.Evidently you also missed the ruling white south enabling the KKK to proudly use the confederate flag as a symbol of their organization...while the KKK lynched, murdered and burned blacks to the cross.

Hardly any KKK groups use the Confederate Flag these days, and the only known Chapters that use the flag today, are 2 Chapters in the North. The largest KKK chapters are in the North too. I know the Confederate Group in the South, asked the Klan to stop using the flag. My wife refuses to let hate groups change her perception of the flag.

Thats fine if it is her perception.However, she, and many others need to realize that to large percentage of the population, the confederate flag means more hateful things than "southern pride".

So now we value one person's perception over another?

 

[Christo]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

Yeah. Isn't it a shame how simplistically we present the Civil War to our children?

 

[dawgtrails]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Wow. You missed that one, eh?My point was, most people learn their US history in middle school, or the first few years of high school. And if you have lloked at out grossly inadequate textbooks, you will see what it is they learn.Man, did you really think I spend my hours reading middle school textbooks?

 

[thayman]

Should we deem all those who fly the American Stars and Stripes as racist too? After all, not only did the country officially endorse the institution of slavery for its first 100 years.....but it also turned a blind eye to Jim Crowe laws and segregation (all over the country) well into the 1960s.

The Stars and Stripes is the also same flag that is view upon by blacks as ultimately fighting to break these horrendous actions and laws...while the confederate flag represents to blacks those that attempted to continue them.

Continue them?

I see you missed the post and fact that Georgia added the confederate flag in 1956 as show of disdain vs supreme court decisons and the civil rights movement.Evidently you also missed the ruling white south enabling the KKK to proudly use the confederate flag as a symbol of their organization...while the KKK lynched, murdered and burned blacks to the cross.

Both of the parties you mentioned are completely within their right to protest. The swastika is a Hindu symbol that the Nazi's turned into a hate symbol. Some Hindus have a swastika up in their home, it doesn't mean that they are Nazis.

For one, the religious symbol the Hindu's use is not identical in appearance to the Nazi swastika...and two, the Hindu's don't hang their religious symbol out on their front yard in Israel.

It is still very similar. And you do get that in this country there are Hindus that live in close proximity to Jews right?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

 

[snarfsnarf]

What the hell is Southern pride? And better yet, why the hell would anyone be proud of anything in the South's history?

When I see someone flying confederate flag, I think don't necessarily see a person I think is racist. I see an ignorant, knuckle-dragging redneck. I will concede that the the two are not mutually exclusive however.

In then stands to reason why would anyone be proud of anything in Americas history. The North was not guiltless. What society ever has been.

 

[dawgtrails]

What the hell is Southern pride? And better yet, why the hell would anyone be proud of anything in the South's history?

When I see someone flying confederate flag, I think don't necessarily see a person I think is racist. I see an ignorant, knuckle-dragging redneck. I will concede that the the two are not mutually exclusive however.

In then stands to reason why would anyone be proud of anything in Americas history. The North was not guiltless. What society ever has been.

Ive been a big fan of australias history. To think they used to all be covicted felons. Man, have they come a long way. Im gonna go get me an Australian flag.

 

[Funkley]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

What we were talking about is what lead to the rebellion.

 

[Funkley]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Wow. You missed that one, eh?My point was, most people learn their US history in middle school, or the first few years of high school. And if you have lloked at out grossly inadequate textbooks, you will see what it is they learn.Man, did you really think I spend my hours reading middle school textbooks?

Sorry, I did misunderatand what you meant and I yeah, I did think that......but I've been here too long. Read too many Larry threads I guess.

 

[thayman]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

The Revolutionary War was nothing more then a illegal rebellion.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

The Revolutionary War was nothing more then a illegal rebellion.

No kidding. What's your point?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

What we were talking about is what lead to the rebellion.

The southern leaders not getting their way every time in federal legislation and their own political infighting leading to them losing a Presidential election.

 

[TheIronSheik]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

The Revolutionary War was nothing more then a illegal rebellion.

No kidding. What's your point?

Anyone who flys a British flag obviously hates America.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations? Ironically, sort of like racists do. J

 

[Vintage_Football]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations? Ironically, sort of like racists do. J

Joe,...Maryville has the Confederate Flag as their logo, what do they say it stands for?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations? Ironically, sort of like racists do. J

Joe,...Maryville has the Confederate Flag as their logo, what do they say it stands for?

I don't think they do anymore.J

 

[Ryan_21]

The KKK wears white sheets on their bodys, so if any of you have white sheets on your beds, you are obviously racists!

 

[Vintage_Football]

really? I thought they still did. What did it stand for, do you know? I'm a TN guy myself, and have never thought that it stood for anything racist. I've had family members die in the Civil War under this flag, and will not pay attention to anyone who disrespects it.

 

[Vintage_Football]

The KKK wears white sheets on their bodys, so if any of you have white sheets on your beds, you are obviously racists!

 

[Joe Bryant]

really? I thought they still did. What did it stand for, do you know? I'm a TN guy myself, and have never thought that it stood for anything racist. I've had family members die in the Civil War under this flag, and will not pay attention to anyone who disrespects it.

I think this is still in effect.J

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=15677

Tennessee school board bans Confederate flag from sports events

By The Associated Press

08.18.05

MARYVILLE, Tenn. — The Maryville Board of Education approved a policy designed to ban the Confederate battle flag from school athletic events.

The measure passed last week bans all flags, signs, noisemakers and other objects from football games played at Maryville High School, whose school nickname is “Red Rebels.”

“This was not an easy decision,” board Chairwoman Carolyn McKamis said to about 75 people who attended the Aug. 11 meeting. Several audience members spoke for and against the policy.

Barbara Little, an audience member, said the flag had been “grossly misused” in past years and is “no longer a symbol that unites our student body.”

Banning the flag, David Thomas said, “will not ease any racial concerns” and may create more tension because people will resent having a beloved symbol taken away.

Board member Doug Jenkins replied to Thomas that the flag represents Southern culture, not racism. But people who feel that way “failed to take the flag back from hate groups, and now we have to pay a little price for that,” he said.

Before the vote, Jenkins told audience members he was convinced to vote to ban the flag after he read an e-mail written by Carl Stewart, which was printed in The Daily Times.

Stewart, who is black and a former running back at Maryville, said he “spent my four years cringing each time I had to run and like it as the Confederate battle flag waved. I was proud of my school and the school spirit, but I despised being represented by a symbol that stood for minority oppression.”

Board member Denny Garner cast the only dissenting vote and said he believed the policy could not be enforced.

In 1999, the school board voted to drop the flag as an official school symbol, which also led to the removal from the school cafeteria a mural combining a Confederate flag with the letter “M” and prohibited the school band from playing “Dixie.” But the vote did not prohibit individuals from bringing flags of any type to football games.

 

[PIK95]

Dukes of Hazzard.Just some good ol' boys. Never meanin no harm.

I'm from Rhode Island and thats what it reminds me of.

 

[Vintage_Football]

That is awful. Some people will have construed views forever. I never once thought it stood for anything that was disrespectful. I played against them in high school football playoffs, and never once did they ever do anything that would have made the flag "grossly misused".

 

[Koya]

For the sanity of other posters, PLEASE turn that Sig down.

TIA

 

[Mjolnirs]

... in response to the links and facts I provided from the black persons viewpoint.

Historical quotes used in arguments are like statistics, you can find some to prove or disprove anything.Such a link

" I had to re-examine my feelings toward the (Confederate) flag when I read a newspaper article about an elderly black man whose ancestor worked with the Confederate forces. The man spoke with pride about his family member's contribution to the cause and was photographed with the (Confederate) flag draped over his lap. That's why I now have no definite stand on just what the flag symbolizes, because it no longer is their history, or my history, but our history."

Terri Williams, a Black journalist for the Suffolk "Virginia Pilot"

Dr. Leonard Haynes, a African-American professor at Southern University, stated, "When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you've eliminated the history of the South."

ex-slave Frederick Douglass observed, "There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down ... and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government."

H.K. Edgerton was formerly the President of the Asheville, North Carolina NAACP and a long time advocate for the disadvantaged and others left out of the mainstream of society. HK could be seen almost everyday walking down the street counseling young people to stay off of drugs, running drug dealers out of the area as he tried to help the poor and unrepresented in Asheville, NC. He gradually learned about the truthfulness of the Southern Cause and Southern heritage through his brother Terry Lee, who was the family's first Confederate. Although Terry Lee's ideas and true understanding of history and politics was on occasion an embarrassment to the President of the Asheville NAACP, over time HK began to realize that Terry was right. HK Edgerton's embracement of the cause of truth in history and heritage for all the people of Dixie has propelled him into the public limelight here in NC and now all across the United States.

Evidently you also missed the ruling white south enabling the KKK to proudly use the confederate flag as a symbol of their organization...while the KKK lynched, murdered and burned blacks to the cross.

What exactly would you have had them do? These same people were flying the US Flag, why did the government not put a stop to it? These same people were carrying crosses, why did Christians not put a stop to it? The fact of the matter is the KKK and other hate groups do not break any laws by flying and carrying their flags and crosses.

We live in America, show some pride people and hang the U.S. flag outside of your home...as a show of unity of the country we live in and the equality of all people who live here.

Is it OK with you if I do both? Often times I have flown my battle flag under my Stars and Stripes. I change what I fly week to week.

 

[thayman]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

The Revolutionary War was nothing more then a illegal rebellion.

No kidding. What's your point?

My point is that I have always found it amusing when someone starts calling the South "bad" and their criminal acts as you said, they simply came out on the wrong side of rebellion. During the Revolutionary War it could have easily gone the other way, and we would have to watch soccer instead of football on Sundays.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Blah, blah, blah...I've just said nothing. Please come back IIWII

So, you quote "black" people who say one thing and I quote "black" people who say another and I've said nothing?You sir aren't worth the effort.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Blah, blah, blah...I've just said nothing. Please come back IIWII

So, you quote "black" people who say one thing and I quote "black" people who say another and I've said nothing?You sir aren't worth the effort.

Best to ignore racists like him. He doesn't even realize that by calling them "black" instead of African Americans, he's holding them down as a people. It's sad there are still people like him in this world.

 

[Da Guru]

really? I thought they still did. What did it stand for, do you know? I'm a TN guy myself, and have never thought that it stood for anything racist. I've had family members die in the Civil War under this flag, and will not pay attention to anyone who disrespects it.

I think this is still in effect.J

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=15677

Tennessee school board bans Confederate flag from sports events

By The Associated Press

08.18.05

MARYVILLE, Tenn. — The Maryville Board of Education approved a policy designed to ban the Confederate battle flag from school athletic events.

The measure passed last week bans all flags, signs, noisemakers and other objects from football games played at Maryville High School, whose school nickname is “Red Rebels.”

“This was not an easy decision,” board Chairwoman Carolyn McKamis said to about 75 people who attended the Aug. 11 meeting. Several audience members spoke for and against the policy.

Barbara Little, an audience member, said the flag had been “grossly misused” in past years and is “no longer a symbol that unites our student body.”

Banning the flag, David Thomas said, “will not ease any racial concerns” and may create more tension because people will resent having a beloved symbol taken away.

Board member Doug Jenkins replied to Thomas that the flag represents Southern culture, not racism. But people who feel that way “failed to take the flag back from hate groups, and now we have to pay a little price for that,” he said.

Before the vote, Jenkins told audience members he was convinced to vote to ban the flag after he read an e-mail written by Carl Stewart, which was printed in The Daily Times.

Stewart, who is black and a former running back at Maryville, said he “spent my four years cringing each time I had to run and like it as the Confederate battle flag waved. I was proud of my school and the school spirit, but I despised being represented by a symbol that stood for minority oppression.”

Board member Denny Garner cast the only dissenting vote and said he believed the policy could not be enforced.

In 1999, the school board voted to drop the flag as an official school symbol, which also led to the removal from the school cafeteria a mural combining a Confederate flag with the letter “M” and prohibited the school band from playing “Dixie.” But the vote did not prohibit individuals from bringing flags of any type to football games.

PC at it`s finest!

 

[FatMax]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations? Ironically, sort of like racists do. J

J,I'm the one who threw out terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers". Would you care to address me and defend your postion? Or better yet, you could just stand on your FBG perch with your confederate flag flying and ignore that you (and by you, I mean the south in general) have a pretty ####ed up history that still exists today. The confederate flag is part of it. Defend it. Please. What does the flag stand for.**I say this knowing that Joe will not defend anything, per usual.FM

 

[Yankee23Fan]

LMAO at the fact that people think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Not so much, it was an economic war first and foremost. It did however give Lincoln an opportunity to gain support among the abolitionists in the North.

Ever look at any middle school US history textbooks?

And the myth perpetuates itself. The concept of freedom makes for a much better curriculum than discussing why brother killed brother over the textile industy, trailrail rightaway's, and trade agreements.Given the level of racism that exists in our country today why would we believe that the average white citizen in the north during 1860 gave a #### about the average slave? They didn't. But they did like their cotton products. Put away the middle school text books sometime and try reading a book by Howard Zinn. Look into the different campaign speeches that Lincoln made to pro-slave vs no slave audiences. Slavery was only a factor, not the reason.The South fought for a way of life but the North fought for $$$.

Another thing that perpetuates itself in discussions about the illegal rebellion is the desire of some to actually come up with reasons why the South did what it did, as well as trying to define why the North did waht it did.You, for example, give the rebels entirely too much credit by trying to define the Civil War in terms of economic disputes. The desire to romanticize the south and their criminal acts is something that many do. And it's wrong.The North didn't fight for anything. The federal government put down an illegal rebellion. Anyone who looks at the civil war in terms of north vs. south for the purpose of defining some goal of the northern states in fighting the war is simply not looking at the conflict the right way. The United States did not cease to exist in 1860, and was not replaced by 13 northern states fighting together to oppress the south, who banded together to fight for some lofty goal of freedom.The fact is that the leaders of the southern states made illegal rebellion against the government as designated by the Constitution of the United States. That rebellion was put down, as it should have been. That's it. It's that not that difficult a concept.

The Revolutionary War was nothing more then a illegal rebellion.

No kidding. What's your point?

My point is that I have always found it amusing when someone starts calling the South "bad" and their criminal acts as you said, they simply came out on the wrong side of rebellion. During the Revolutionary War it could have easily gone the other way, and we would have to watch soccer instead of football on Sundays.

So you had no point.History is written by the winners. Even the most ignorant student of history knows that. Had the American colonists lost the revolution the leaders would have been hung as traitors. They knew this.However, for some reason, people turn epileptic when you describe the leaders of the south in the same vain.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Blah, blah, blah...I've just said nothing. Please come back IIWII

So, you quote "black" people who say one thing and I quote "black" people who say another and I've said nothing?You sir aren't worth the effort.

I put him on ignore a few pages ago. Suggest you do the same.

 

[Christo]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations?

Ironically, sort of like racists do.

J

J,I'm the one who threw out terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers". Would you care to address me and defend your postion? Or better yet, you could just stand on your FBG perch with your confederate flag flying and ignore that you (and by you, I mean the south in general) have a pretty ####ed up history that still exists today. The confederate flag is part of it.

Defend it. Please. What does the flag stand for.*

*I say this knowing that Joe will not defend anything, per usual.

FM

Oh, the irony.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Blah, blah, blah...I've just said nothing. Please come back IIWII

So, you quote "black" people who say one thing and I quote "black" people who say another and I've said nothing?You sir aren't worth the effort.

I put him on ignore a few pages ago. Suggest you do the same.

Did you put him on ignore because of his blatant racist attitude towrds African Americans? That's why I'm thinking of doing so, GB.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Blah, blah, blah...I've just said nothing. Please come back IIWII

So, you quote "black" people who say one thing and I quote "black" people who say another and I've said nothing?You sir aren't worth the effort.

Best to ignore racists like him. He doesn't even realize that by calling them "black" instead of African Americans, he's holding them down as a people. It's sad there are still people like him in this world.

Yes, many of us call people of our own race black....as opposed to people like yourself who call us "them"

Yes. "Them" has always been such a horrible racist word.

 

[RoarinSonoran]

On January 31, 1865, the Thirteenth Amendment abolishing slavery was ratified. The Blacks were jubilant and this was reflected in their fighting spirit. The defeat of the South was inevitable. On April 9, 1865 at Appomattox, Virginia, Lee surrendered, officially ending the Civil War.

As this is the FFA, it's perfectly correct to dismiss someone's argument in total when they use a source that doesn't know its facts, right?The 13th was proposed by Congress to the state legislatures on January 31, 1865 (and this was no easy feat either, it originally failed to achieve a 2/3rds majority in the House). Ratification was completed on December 6, 1865, after the legislatures of the Southern states were essentially blackmailed into ratifying it. Always a rebel, Mississippi didn't ratify it until 1995.

Things sure would have been interesting had one of the original 13th Amendments (there was a third, which addressed titles of nobility, ratification was interrupted by the War of 1812) been ratified:

[Proposed 1861; Endorsed by Lincoln while president-elect; Unratified][1]

Article Thirteen.

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

It was narrowly passed by Congress, but the Civil War started before it could be sent to the states for ratification.I say we send it to the states now and see what happens.

 

[Smack Tripper]

It's the flag of a bunch of losers baby!

Like flying the Wild Card pennant or something, who wants to wave 2nd best?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations? Ironically, sort of like racists do. J

J,I'm the one who threw out terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers". Would you care to address me and defend your postion? Or better yet, you could just stand on your FBG perch with your confederate flag flying and ignore that you (and by you, I mean the south in general) have a pretty ####ed up history that still exists today. The confederate flag is part of it. Defend it. Please. What does the flag stand for.**I say this knowing that Joe will not defend anything, per usual.FM

Hi FM, at "not defend anything". Are you new here? But I'm interested, what do you want me to "defend"? Please show me in the thread where I've attacked or defended anything with the flag. I posted the links that showed the high school vintage mentioned no longer used the flag. I don't disagree with that decision because I do think it's inflammatory.I also think it's lame when people throw out sweeping derogative generalizations. But that's just me. If that stings, I don't know what to tell you. J

 

[Joe Bryant]

Wouldn't the intellectual thing be to not lump ALL peopls in with the KKK and consider the source of who is flying the flag and why? This is very similar to saying all Muslims are radical because there is one group of misguided morons who do their work under the guise of Islam.

Hi commish,Why do that though when it's so much easier and fun to throw out derogatory terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers" to make broad sweeping generalizations?

Ironically, sort of like racists do.

J

J,I'm the one who threw out terms like "rednecks" and "knuckledraggers". Would you care to address me and defend your postion? Or better yet, you could just stand on your FBG perch with your confederate flag flying and ignore that you (and by you, I mean the south in general) have a pretty ####ed up history that still exists today. The confederate flag is part of it.

Defend it. Please. What does the flag stand for.*

*I say this knowing that Joe will not defend anything, per usual.

FM

Oh, the irony.

Christo. J

 

[Pigskin75]

I've been following this thread for a fews days now and frankly I'm surprised by several things.

One, the many different views. Not the views of "what the Confederate flag means to me", but the views of our history. Being from Louisiana, we were taught in Louisiana history that there were many free men of color in New Orleans. New Orleans was one of the more "progressive" cities in the south when it came to race. Sure, there were slaves and slave markets. But there were freemen as well. Many were land owners. Not all African Americans in the South were slaves.

Second, no one has mentioned Reconstruction. The war was bad enough but Reconstruction was a very humiliating time for the South. To the victors goes the spoils of war...I know that for sure. But being occupied by Federal troops and having a government forced upon your state was very disheartening experience (let along having many of your major cities burned to the ground). State pride was a very powerful thing in the 19th century. Look at the pride on both sides as they carried the flags of their states and communities onto the battlefield. Reconstruction drew an even deeper devide between North and South that lasted for decades.

Third, the flag itself. I had to wade through I think three of four pages before the "stars and bars" reference was corrected. Not surprisingly, it was corrected by a Southerner from the Great State of South Carolina. If you're gonna hate something, at least understand what you're hating. And I'll bet that if you did a man on the street inteview, 90% would mistake the "stars and bars" (the First Union) for a Revolutionary flag.

Fourth, the bigots. Do I need to define bigot? "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ." To play off of Joe's comments, if I were to say something like, "some big ignorant knuckle dragging (insert your favorite disparaging word for African American here) I would be labeled a racist, a bigot or worse...then banned. And rightly so. But some can toss around, "big ignorant knuckle dragging (insert your favorite disparaging word for a Sothern white guy)" and all is well. That just don't fly. As Joe said, despense with the broad generalizations.

Most of the FFA regulars really play fair and know the rules when it comes to this sort of post. I've been here a while and have read many of your posts, both left and right. But so many new guys come here and just blast away with all kinds of insults and never get into real debate. Cut the crap.

Lastly, the Confederate Naval Jack (to which I'm certain the original question was addressed) means a lot of things to me. Unfortunatly it was hijacked by hate groups long ago. When I think of the Confederacy and Southern history, I recall the stars and bars and the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Brave men who fought for their way of life in the context of the time in which they lived...not through the 20/20 hind site of 140 years. Just as we love FDR and what he did for our nation, today we dispise the internment of Japanese Americans...but it was a different time...a different place.

I'm from Louisiana. Union, Justice, and Confidence

 

[TheIronSheik]

Blah, blah, blah...I've just said nothing. Please come back IIWII

So, you quote "black" people who say one thing and I quote "black" people who say another and I've said nothing?You sir aren't worth the effort.

Best to ignore racists like him. He doesn't even realize that by calling them "black" instead of African Americans, he's holding them down as a people. It's sad there are still people like him in this world.

Yes, many of us call people of our own race black....as opposed to people like yourself who call us "them"

Yes. "Them" has always been such a horrible racist word.

Quoting you in post 251...

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off.

But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes.

I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:

1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.

2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.

3) Both the north and south had slaves.

4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.

5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.

6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.

The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

Maybe you would care to address the ignorant bolded part of your post 251 with the link and post I provided above yours...

Not until you address your hatred of African Americans.

 

[oddball]

Wow. I really didn't think this would strike so deep. I asked a pretty easy question. I'm sorry, but if you don't think it was an 'easy' question, your thinking too hard about it. I asked "What does the condederate flag mean to you?" I also requested you provide what state your from, as I think that might have a bearing on your belief system/answer.

What I didn't anticipate was everyone defending their answers. What the hell was I thinking? This is the FFA after all. I don't give a rats ### why you think and feel the way you do towards the flag. I was looking for a general idea of how the flag is regarded in current society.

I have my answer.

 

[Southside Stosh]

I grew up in Lansing IL (30 min south of Chicago) and went to TF South. We are the TF South REBELS! The flag used to be our rebel flag used to be on a sign right on top of our school until about 1998 or so (dont remember the exact year), when people started complaining...its always just been a flag representing our school to me!

Isn't the neighborhood around Lansing mostly black? I wouldn't be surprised if the locals complained about a confederate flag flown on HS property.