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What is Obama's signature achievement as president? (1 Viewer)

Forget it, it's a waste.

I left that by way of apology, and you can't act graciously about me admitting that that sounded stupid. 

Okay, friend, let's just call it a year and a life and go our separate ways.  You're welcome in the Venezuelan thread anytime. I changed it specifically out of respect to your relatives, and you're still going to follow me around, I'll bet. 

Great.

Peace.   

 
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timschochet said:
I don't agree everybody knows it. My impression is that large numbers of the GOP's conservative base, particularly those in the Tea Party, religious conservatives, and Trump supporters, tend to use the word "socialism" as a catch all demonization of any progressive policy (or person)  they are opposed to. 
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Obviously.  Of course, on the flip side, much of the liberal base uses words like "racism" as a catch all demonization of conservative policies they don't like.  It's a byproduct of our 24 hour news cycle and short attention spans.  There's no time to get well reasoned, nuanced, and detailed points across.  You have 30 seconds, so your best bang for buck is to use words like "socialist", "racist", or "SAD!"

 
jon_mx said:
:lol:  nice spin.  This is what wrong with politics.  People take a dozen things and try to twist the worst possible one into rhetoric which isn't even true.  No, the Republicans ideas had nothing to do with trying to eliminates Obama'a big give away to people who had a zero tax bill.  They would have left that in place.  They had additional ideas, things like tax cuts for small businesses to help create jobs and who actually had a tax bill. One specific tax cut the GOP suggested was to lower the tax rate for middle class Americans from 15% to 10%, but that was met with, sorry I won let me ####can that idea. 
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A few thoughts. 

Were you as concerned with the president being a bully when it was W and the neocons telling the Dems to pound sand for 8 years? Often implying you weren't as patriotic as they were if you didn't agree or some such bull####.

If Obama conceded more in this stimulus package - he did shrink it because of the sudden concern for budgets by the republicans - would McConnell and brethren been easier to work with? I don't see a great track record there.

Obama did sign to extend the Bush tax cuts McConnell was happy about that (those by the way cost more than the stimulus package that Mitch was wetting his bed about). Many democrats were pissed at Obama for the way he handled that.

 
The General said:
A few thoughts. 

Were you as concerned with the president being a bully when it was W and the neocons telling the Dems to pound sand for 8 years? Often implying you weren't as patriotic as they were if you didn't agree or some such bull####.

If Obama conceded more in this stimulus package - he did shrink it because of the sudden concern for budgets by the republicans - would McConnell and brethren been easier to work with? I don't see a great track record there.

Obama did sign to extend the Bush tax cuts McConnell was happy about that (those by the way cost more than the stimulus package that Mitch was wetting his bed about). Many democrats were pissed at Obama for the way he handled that.
Click to expand...
W actually worked with Dems on numerous things like a major highway bill, the stimulus package, TARP, tax cuts, and No Child Left Behind.  All got substantial bi-partisan support as Bush reached across the isle.  Extending Bush's tax cuts was not to make the GOP happy, but because being a big tax hiker is not the path to re-election.  Democrats may not have been happy with everything Obama did, but that was not because Obama was working with the GOP.  He wanted to win a second term.  For presidents who had to deal with working with an opposition party in control of the House and/or Senate, Obama could very well have been the worst at that.  And a fair portion of the blame has to be on him. 

 
jon_mx said:
The General said:
A few thoughts. 

Were you as concerned with the president being a bully when it was W and the neocons telling the Dems to pound sand for 8 years? Often implying you weren't as patriotic as they were if you didn't agree or some such bull####.

If Obama conceded more in this stimulus package - he did shrink it because of the sudden concern for budgets by the republicans - would McConnell and brethren been easier to work with? I don't see a great track record there.

Obama did sign to extend the Bush tax cuts McConnell was happy about that (those by the way cost more than the stimulus package that Mitch was wetting his bed about). Many democrats were pissed at Obama for the way he handled that.
Click to expand...
W actually worked with Dems on numerous things like a major highway bill, the stimulus package, TARP, tax cuts, and No Child Left Behind.  All got substantial bi-partisan support as Bush reached across the isle.  Extending Bush's tax cuts was not to make the GOP happy, but because being a big tax hiker is not the path to re-election.  Democrats may not have been happy with everything Obama did, but that was not because Obama was working with the GOP.  He wanted to win a second term.  For presidents who had to deal with working with an opposition party in control of the House and/or Senate, Obama could very well have been the worst at that.  And a fair portion of the blame has to be on him. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, we should be careful to separate actual policy from campaign rhetoric here.  There's no denying that many GOP representatives and candidates used a lot of "with us or against us" rhetoric in the 2002 and 2004 campaigns.

There was a lot more cooperation on policy during the Bush years (and throughout previous history) than during Obama's tenure.  I suspect the partisanship and pushing things through without compromise will get worse during the current administration.

If I had to assign blame to the increasing level of "my way or the highway" policy, I'd probably go with something like 50% GOP, 20% Obama (plus Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, and co.), and 30% other, which would include the media, voters being stupid, increased forms of short communication, etc.

 
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jon_mx said:
W actually worked with Dems on numerous things like a major highway bill, the stimulus package, TARP, tax cuts, and No Child Left Behind.  All got substantial bi-partisan support as Bush reached across the isle.  Extending Bush's tax cuts was not to make the GOP happy, but because being a big tax hiker is not the path to re-election.  Democrats may not have been happy with everything Obama did, but that was not because Obama was working with the GOP.  He wanted to win a second term.  For presidents who had to deal with working with an opposition party in control of the House and/or Senate, Obama could very well have been the worst at that.  And a fair portion of the blame has to be on him. 
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Pretty hard to reach across the aisle when you are faced with this.

https://www.democraticwhip.gov/content/just-facts-house-republicans-record-obstruction

 
jon_mx said:
Which is a result and not a cause.  And a result with plenty of democratic spin wrapped around it to boot.  Obama and the Dems not taking ownership that they are a major contributor is part of the problem.  Obama's idea of reach out was pointing a finger.  That trick never works. 
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Whatever guy. :lmao:     Your responses write themselves.  

The right never holds itself to it's own standards.  How do you feel about the right not reading the ACHA bill?  

 
Sabertooth said:
Whatever guy. :lmao:     Your responses write themselves.  

The right never holds itself to it's own standards.  How do you feel about the right not reading the ACHA bill?  
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Besides a few hardcore partisans on the left, most agree with my assessment.  It is a two-way street.

"Independent Democrat Joe Lieberman issued an unflattering critique of Sen. Barack Obama today, saying the Democratic presidential contender has "no record" of opposing his party and building bipartisan coalitions."

 
Thought about this a bit more.  His signature moment was hiring Hillary.  If that doesn't happen, he probably has an ally building his legacy at this moment.

 
jon_mx said:
Besides a few hardcore partisans on the left, most agree with my assessment.  It is a two-way street.

"Independent Democrat Joe Lieberman issued an unflattering critique of Sen. Barack Obama today, saying the Democratic presidential contender has "no record" of opposing his party and building bipartisan coalitions."
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LOL. You are holding Liberman out as representative of Democrats or those on the left? The same Joe Liberman who was going to be McCain's running mate until the idea was nixed by the GOP establishment? That is the best example you can come up? Please.

 
jon_mx said:
W actually worked with Dems on numerous things like a major highway bill, the stimulus package, TARP, tax cuts, and No Child Left Behind.  All got substantial bi-partisan support as Bush reached across the isle.  Extending Bush's tax cuts was not to make the GOP happy, but because being a big tax hiker is not the path to re-election.  Democrats may not have been happy with everything Obama did, but that was not because Obama was working with the GOP.  He wanted to win a second term.  For presidents who had to deal with working with an opposition party in control of the House and/or Senate, Obama could very well have been the worst at that.  And a fair portion of the blame has to be on him. 
Click to expand...
When W "worked" with Dems it was bipartisan statesmanship. When Obama did it was to get reelected.

:lol:

 
The General said:
When W "worked" with Dems it was bipartisan statesmanship. When Obama did it was to get reelected.

:lol:
Click to expand...
The difference is W did actually work with Dems.  The debate with how large the stimulus was going to be was within the Democratic Party.  You can refuse to see the difference, but W was very inclusive of putting real democratic ideas in bills to get support.  Obama not giving in to the furthest wing of the Democratic Party is not bipartisan.  

 
jon_mx said:
The difference is W did actually work with Dems.  The debate with how large the stimulus was going to be was within the Democratic Party.  You can refuse to see the difference, but W was very inclusive of putting real democratic ideas in bills to get support.  Obama not giving in to the furthest wing of the Democratic Party is not bipartisan.  
Click to expand...
I'll let you google bipartisan Obama efforts. We are kind of down a side track here going in circles but a good back and forth.

Ultimately it's a results game Obama has scoreboard there.

 
The General said:
I'll let you google bipartisan Obama efforts. We are kind of down a side track here going in circles but a good back and forth.

Ultimately it's a results game Obama has scoreboard there.
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The scoreboard shows nothing passed for the last six years in office. :shrug:  

 
jon_mx said:
:lol:  nice spin.  This is what wrong with politics.  People take a dozen things and try to twist the worst possible one into rhetoric which isn't even true.  No, the Republicans ideas had nothing to do with trying to eliminates Obama'a big give away to people who had a zero tax bill.  They would have left that in place.  They had additional ideas, things like tax cuts for small businesses to help create jobs and who actually had a tax bill. One specific tax cut the GOP suggested was to lower the tax rate for middle class Americans from 15% to 10%, but that was met with, sorry I won let me ####can that idea. 
Click to expand...
I agree.

You have done it repeatedly in this thread. 

 
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