What Will It Take For The US To Be Competitive In World Cup? (1 Viewer)

[IrishTwinkie]

There are two areas where the US should have a significant advantage over all other countries. Defenders and attackers.  

CBs:  I’m goign to make a wild assumption that Britain isn’t full of 6’4 athletes.  When is the last time you’ve seen a British nba player?  When a young lad has size, he’s turned into a CB or a GK.  Virgil Van dijk comes into the pl from Holland and fans rave over his size. He’s 6’4

You can go to any gym in America and find 6’4 athletes that from a sheer athletic standpoint would likely matchup to Virgil or would put many other pl CB’s to shame.

Obviously coaching needs to happen, but America is loaded with athletes that, if they were trained from youth in soccer, would make scouts drool. 

Yes the current team is athletically similar to the rest of the world.  But it’s not athletically superior, as it should be, when you consider that (for whatever reason) America is far ahead of other countries in producing athletic phenoms

This seems to be a very US-centric point of view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Crouch

Here is a 6'7 guy who does/did a mean "Robot" dance for goal celebrations and isn't a GK or CB. The same reasons why this guy isn't in the NBA are a mirror to why the 6'7 athletes in the US aren't playing soccer. 

I feel some peeps in this thread are underestimating the skill and time needed to develop those skills that is needed to play the sport at its highest levels. Its not a sport you can pick up late in HS and excel at just cause you are big, fast and strong. The NFL has many examples of that. Soccer doesn't work that way. 

 

[gianmarco]

Sure. But the reason he's not on the team is that he doesn't have the stamina to run for 45 minutes, take a 15 minute break and then do it again

Peter Crouch says hi

 

[NewlyRetired]

Skill development needs to be addressed.  I don't see technique being taught on how to properly strike a ball.  I don't see speed training.  I see lots of loose practices and scrimages that take a couple hours a week.  We need more 10,000 hours of deliberate practice.  

There are enough athletes for multiple sports to thrive in the US.  

if I had one hope beyond good coaching for development, it would be for every club to have one of these.  Pulisic raves about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

 

[NewlyRetired]

I feel some peeps in this thread are underestimating the skill and time needed to develop those skills that is needed to play the sport at its highest levels. Its not a sport you can pick up late in HS and excel at just cause you are big, fast and strong. The NFL has many examples of that. Soccer doesn't work that way. 

one thing that scares me about the people that think the sport is all about big and fast is if that ever took hold here, would a potential Shaqiri, or Messi, or Modric be overlooked because of their size?  We already hear one too many complaints now from our latino community that they are being over looked because they are smaller on average.

If big and fast was all that was needed to create the best players, African teams would be the best in the world.   Soccer is the number one sport on the continent, they are loaded with gifted big and strong athletes and soccer gets first choice of every athlete and yet for as long as we live they are likely to never be better than the smaller, slower South Americans on average.

 

[msommer]

Peter Crouch says hi

H elooks like he weighs 100 lbs at best, though

And he is a robot  

 

[Steve Tasker]

The vast majority won't make it. It sounds like these kids are groomed from pre teens for being pro. Is it a problem that the majority find themselves at 20 years old and not having made it and have to choose another path? 

I know I'm well behind, but I wanted to comment on this point.

It is very common for players to come up in a top program's academy only to fail to get to that final stage.  If you look at the academies of top European clubs, only a select handful of players ultimately take that next step from solid U-17 player to professional at that club.  But that doesn't necessarily mean their careers are over - those players graduate from the academy and find a spot on a club elsewhere.  With a pedigree from a solid club, you're going to get looks around the world.  You might not have made it for Chelsea, but that's not to say you can't make it in the 2nd tier in England, or in the Netherlands or Belgium or something.

That's one difference between soccer and, say, football.  If you don't make it in the NFL, you can try to land in the CFL, otherwise you're not going to play professionally (i.e. fully paid without another job).  If you don't make it in the EPL, or La Liga, or whatever, there's probably at least 75 countries in the world where you can play as a full professional.  No, you're not gonna get Neymar money, but you're not wondering where your next paycheck is coming from either.

 

[gianmarco]

one thing that scares me about the people that think the sport is all about big and fast is if that ever took hold here, would a potential Shaqiri, or Messi, or Modric be overlooked because of their size?  We already hear one too many complaints now from our latino community that they are being over looked because they are smaller on average.

If big and fast was all that was needed to create the best players, African teams would be the best in the world.   Soccer is the number one sport on the continent, they are loaded with gifted big and strong athletes and soccer gets first choice of every athlete and yet for as long as we live they are likely to never be better than the smaller, slower South Americans on average.

As already stated, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with our "best athletes" not playing soccer.  There is really no better way to explain it than the following:

Even non-soccer fans are aware that Brazil is a pretty big and really good soccer country.  Most World Cups won.  Here is pretty much their starting lineup and additional stars from their current roster:

Neymar:  5'8", 149 lbs
Coutinho: 5'7", 149 lbs
Firmino: 5'11", 167 lbs
Gabriel Jesus: 5'8", 160 lbs
Willian:  5'8", 169 lbs
Paulinho: 5'11", 178 lbs
Fernandinho: 5'10", 147 lbs
D. Costa: 5'7", 154 lbs
Thiago Silva:  6'0", 174 lbs
Marcelo:  5'8", 176 lbs
Filipe Luis:  5'11", 160 lbs
Fagner: 5'6", 147 lbs

Not a single one of those guys would be considered big or strong.  None of them are crazy elite athletes (actually they are, but not in the sense we think of related to height and weight and speed).  Yet this is the mold of most successful soccer players.  These guys would be runts in any other major sport here in the US.  These players are amazing because they've had a soccer ball glued to their foot ever since they could walk just like every other kid they grew up with in Brazil.  Most of those guys probably touched a soccer ball more by the time they are 8 years old than most US kids do in their lifetime.

 

[blend]

I know I'm well behind, but I wanted to comment on this point.

It is very common for players to come up in a top program's academy only to fail to get to that final stage.  If you look at the academies of top European clubs, only a select handful of players ultimately take that next step from solid U-17 player to professional at that club.  But that doesn't necessarily mean their careers are over - those players graduate from the academy and find a spot on a club elsewhere.  With a pedigree from a solid club, you're going to get looks around the world.  You might not have made it for Chelsea, but that's not to say you can't make it in the 2nd tier in England, or in the Netherlands or Belgium or something.

That's one difference between soccer and, say, football.  If you don't make it in the NFL, you can try to land in the CFL, otherwise you're not going to play professionally (i.e. fully paid without another job).  If you don't make it in the EPL, or La Liga, or whatever, there's probably at least 75 countries in the world where you can play as a full professional.  No, you're not gonna get Neymar money, but you're not wondering where your next paycheck is coming from either.

This is very true.  My kids (u15) played a tournament in Austria this past season.  We played FC Basel and quite a few Bundesliga youth teams while we were there.  I was speaking with parents from FC Basel (probably the largest Swiss club).   On their team, only 3 players would remain with the team the following year (when Basel considers you a professional).  The parent didn't know where most of the kids were going, but the others all had professional academy options available to them

 

[Kafka]

As already stated, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with our "best athletes" not playing soccer.  There is really no better way to explain it than the following:

Even non-soccer fans are aware that Brazil is a pretty big and really good soccer country.  Most World Cups won.  Here is pretty much their starting lineup and additional stars from their current roster:

Neymar:  5'8", 149 lbs
Coutinho: 5'7", 149 lbs
Firmino: 5'11", 167 lbs
Gabriel Jesus: 5'8", 160 lbs
Willian:  5'8", 169 lbs
Paulinho: 5'11", 178 lbs
Fernandinho: 5'10", 147 lbs
D. Costa: 5'7", 154 lbs
Thiago Silva:  6'0", 174 lbs
Marcelo:  5'8", 176 lbs
Filipe Luis:  5'11", 160 lbs
Fagner: 5'6", 147 lbs

Not a single one of those guys would be considered big or strong.  None of them are crazy elite athletes (actually they are, but not in the sense we think of related to height and weight and speed).  Yet this is the mold of most successful soccer players.  These guys would be runts in any other major sport here in the US.  These players are amazing because they've had a soccer ball glued to their foot ever since they could walk just like every other kid they grew up with in Brazil.  Most of those guys probably touched a soccer ball more by the time they are 8 years old than most US kids do in their lifetime.

Like basketball here...

 

[rockaction]

As already stated, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with our "best athletes" not playing soccer.  There is really no better way to explain it than the following:

Even non-soccer fans are aware that Brazil is a pretty big and really good soccer country.  Most World Cups won.  Here is pretty much their starting lineup and additional stars from their current roster:

Neymar:  5'8", 149 lbs
Coutinho: 5'7", 149 lbs
Firmino: 5'11", 167 lbs
Gabriel Jesus: 5'8", 160 lbs
Willian:  5'8", 169 lbs
Paulinho: 5'11", 178 lbs
Fernandinho: 5'10", 147 lbs
D. Costa: 5'7", 154 lbs
Thiago Silva:  6'0", 174 lbs
Marcelo:  5'8", 176 lbs
Filipe Luis:  5'11", 160 lbs
Fagner: 5'6", 147 lbs

Not a single one of those guys would be considered big or strong.  None of them are crazy elite athletes (actually they are, but not in the sense we think of related to height and weight and speed).  Yet this is the mold of most successful soccer players.  These guys would be runts in any other major sport here in the US.  These players are amazing because they've had a soccer ball glued to their foot ever since they could walk just like every other kid they grew up with in Brazil.  Most of those guys probably touched a soccer ball more by the time they are 8 years old than most US kids do in their lifetime.

Doesn't this sort of speak to the argument that we do other things as youths? I think when people are saying our best play other sports, they're meaning that we have such a diversity of sport in America and value the other ones from a young age. At least that's what I would argue.  

 

[rockaction]

Like basketball here...

And this, too. This sort of proves the point people are making. Our youth and our best play other sports from the time they can walk. 

 

[rockaction]

I agree you can't just pick this up in high school. What I'm arguing, and I think this is where we get crossed up with these arguments, is that soccer is so culturally ingrained in other countries, whereas our country has hockey, football, baseball, and basketball to consider.  

 

[Kafka]

And this, too. This sort of proves the point people are making. Our youth and our best play other sports from the time they can walk. 

Was just making an analogy...

 

[rockaction]

Was just making an analogy...

And it was a good one. Our best athletes have pucks on their stick, basketballs bouncing, and helmets and pigskin from the time they can walk. These replace soccer balls, unlike other countries. Again, I'm arguing it's a hybrid of things. The people that talk about the structure of U.S. soccer and U.S. youth soccer make great points. But to ignore what you and gianmarco just said misses a fairly big point.    

 

[rockaction]

And much like Tasker was arguing that even if you don't play for Chelsea, you can play in another league, same with basketball here. Our excellent but not quite NBA players often wind up in Euro leagues.

 

[TripItUp]

And it was a good one. Our best athletes have pucks on their stick, basketballs bouncing, and helmets and pigskin from the time they can walk. These replace soccer balls, unlike other countries. Again, I'm arguing it's a hybrid of things. The people that talk about the structure of U.S. soccer and U.S. youth soccer make great points. But to ignore what you and gianmarco just said misses a fairly big point.    

This is becoming less accurate as soccer youth sport participation continues to take a bigger piece of the pie.

 

[gianmarco]

Doesn't this sort of speak to the argument that we do other things as youths? I think when people are saying our best play other sports, they're meaning that we have such a diversity of sport in America and value the other ones from a young age. At least that's what I would argue.  

No, not at all.  We're not missing out because all of our eventual 5'6", 150 lb kids are out playing little league at age 7.  Or that we failed to capture our athletes in a single sport.

It's a mindset and a culture.  Every kid in Brazil spends countless hours touching a soccer ball.  In the house.  On the street.  Barefoot.  Concrete.  Against friends.  Against relatives.  It's second nature like breathing. 

Here, that simply isn't the case and it has nothing to do with youth playing other sports.  That said, we also encourage our kids to diversify and play as many different things as possible.  It's been shown to be better for kids overall.  And that's fine, but it also goes against what it takes to become a powerhouse in the world of soccer like Brazil.  Moreso than probably any other sport, as has also been mentioned above, nothing can replicate the thousands and thousands of hours it takes to become an elite soccer player.  You can't jump in later in life and be good at it.  And that is unlikely to change on a grand scale here in this country. 

Overall, that's a good thing for our country as a whole and for our kids.  But as a way to become an elite soccer nation, it's counterproductive.  Our best chance is to have enough of those kids that do that and get them recognized early on.  THAT is where our numbers will benefit us. 

 

[rockaction]

This is becoming less accurate as soccer youth sport participation continues to take a bigger piece of the pie.

Yeah, soccer is definitely on the upswing. It seems that way. Anecdotally, my nephew is a good athlete and plays soccer full time, as do his friends. 

 

[Steve Tasker]

"Why is Joe Bryant shoving soccer down our throats?"

Ok, this will make my fellow soccer dorks cringe so I promise not to belabor the point. But the English Football Association has 7,000 clubs in its pyramid. Which means that every crossroads town in the country has a club playing at some level and many of those have youth programs attached. It not only adds up to a continual showcase of new talent coming through the pipeline but places for that talent to move up to as well. But mostly it means that the fabric and soul of the game is embedded in every Altoona and Storm Lake in the country -- it's their Friday Night Lights and Saturday afternoon Gameday all in one. It's THE game on the weekend, no matter where you live or what level your local plays at.

A stronger MLS will help but we'll never be as good as anyone else on a consistent level with two dozen serious clubs when we should have 30 thousand. And every little boy in town dreaming of playing for the home team.

[endrant]

I do think there is some truth to this, and I wonder how this is going nationwide.

10 years ago, I joined a local competitive adult men's league.  The year I joined, I believe they added a 4th-tier and we were at maybe 36-ish teams across the 4 divisions.  As of this summer, we are up to 74 teams across 5 promotion/relegation divisions.  A few years ago, our league board applied and were officially granted USASA Elite Amateur status.  The league has become extremely robust - we get coverage in the local paper, top games will actually draw spectators, tons of Twitter activity.  Our team plays in the 4th-tier (we've all collectively lost a step or three), and at one of our road games this season, our opponents took the field with local kids like they do in the pros, and were selling merch, scarves, t-shirts, concessions, etc.

This stuff didn't exist 10 years ago.  It serves to keep younger folks involved in the game and playing past the age of 17.  The playoffs are wild, we have a local FA Cup-style competition where the winner qualifies for the US Open Cup regional qualifiers, etc.

I am curious (1) if this is happening in other cities, and (2) if it will trickle down to younger generations.  Back in the day, it was unheard of....you hit 17-18, graduate from high school, and if you're not playing in college you're pretty much done playing.  Now you can continue playing, your kids can come to your games and get involved.  Very few people in this league are getting paid, of course, but it helps breed a soccer culture that is sorely needed in America.

 

[rockaction]

No, not at all.  We're not missing out because all of our eventual 5'6", 150 lb kids are out playing little league at age 7.  Or that we failed to capture our athletes in a single sport.

It's a mindset and a culture.  Every kid in Brazil spends countless hours touching a soccer ball.  In the house.  On the street.  Barefoot.  Concrete.  Against friends.  Against relatives.  It's second nature like breathing. 

Here, that simply isn't the case and it has nothing to do with youth playing other sports.  That said, we also encourage our kids to diversify and play as many different things as possible.  It's been shown to be better for kids overall.  And that's fine, but it also goes against what it takes to become a powerhouse in the world of soccer like Brazil.  Moreso than probably any other sport, as has also been mentioned above, nothing can replicate the thousands and thousands of hours it takes to become an elite soccer player.  You can't jump in later in life and be good at it.  And that is unlikely to change on a grand scale here in this country. 

Overall, that's a good thing for our country as a whole and for our kids.  But as a way to become an elite soccer nation, it's counterproductive.  Our best chance is to have enough of those kids that do that and get them recognized early on.  THAT is where our numbers will benefit us. 

I don't think I disagree with any -- and I mean any of this post, especially the bolded. I think we're getting hung up on size and speed, something that I, in particular, am not arguing. Both the cultural emphasis and diversification of sport are responsible for disallowing us from becoming a soccer powerhouse. 

But then why do we dominate basketball under the same diversity conditions?  The emphasis is surely different, but I think that's what people, when they make the "we play other sports" arguments really mean, though I may be reading into it.  

 

[TripItUp]

I am curious (1) if this is happening in other cities, and (2) if it will trickle down to younger generations.  Back in the day, it was unheard of....you hit 17-18, graduate from high school, and if you're not playing in college you're pretty much done playing.  Now you can continue playing, your kids can come to your games and get involved.  Very few people in this league are getting paid, of course, but it helps breed a soccer culture that is sorely needed in America.

It doesn't need to happen in every city.  The USA is unique in that we are very populous and have more money than any other country in the world.

California has more people than Uruguay and Croatia combined X 10.   (both semifinalists) .

And guess what, it is happening in California...seemingly everybody plays soccer over here.

I'm not sure what all this panic buttion bull#### is about, but it's rather ridiculous.

 

[gianmarco]

I agree you can't just pick this up in high school. What I'm arguing, and I think this is where we get crossed up with these arguments, is that soccer is so culturally ingrained in other countries, whereas our country has hockey, football, baseball, and basketball to consider.  

You are trying to relate 2 points that I think are unrelated.  Yes, soccer is so culturally ingrained in other countries.  This leads to kids playing early on and wanting to play early on.

Yes, our country has hockey, football, baseball, and basketball, but that is NOT why our kids don't do the same as kids from a country like Brazil.  Our kids don't do that because culturally, as a nation, we don't have our children doing these things so early in their lives.  Most kids are NOT throwing a football or a baseball for countless hours at the age of 4.  They are doing pre-school activities and other things to make them more well-rounded.  Great for the individual, not great for trying to build a sport society.  It's not the other sports that are keeping kids from spending hours with a ball on their feet.  It's just our way of raising children that is.

For example, look at Tiger Woods.  The kid was groomed early on to play golf.  I'm just happy when my 2 year old doesn't spill milk.  If we all did the same things with our kids as Tiger's parents with a soccer ball, we could fix the problem overnight.  But we won't and we never will. 

 

[rockaction]

You are trying to relate 2 points that I think are unrelated.  Yes, soccer is so culturally ingrained in other countries.  This leads to kids playing early on and wanting to play early on.

Yes, our country has hockey, football, baseball, and basketball, but that is NOT why our kids don't do the same as kids from a country like Brazil.  Our kids don't do that because culturally, as a nation, we don't have our children doing these things so early in their lives.  Most kids are NOT throwing a football or a baseball for countless hours at the age of 4.  They are doing pre-school activities and other things to make them more well-rounded.  Great for the individual, not great for trying to build a sport society.  It's not the other sports that are keeping kids from spending hours with a ball on their feet.  It's just our way of raising children that is.

For example, look at Tiger Woods.  The kid was groomed early on to play golf.  I'm just happy when my 2 year old doesn't spill milk.  If we all did the same things with our kids as Tiger's parents with a soccer ball, we could fix the problem overnight.  But we won't and we never will. 

I think we agree way more than you think. I must not be conveying what I'm trying to say very well.  

 

[rockaction]

It doesn't need to happen in every city.  The USA is unique in that we are very populous and have more money than any other country in the world.

I'm not sure what all this panic buttion bull#### is about, but it's rather ridiculous.

I don't think anybody hit the panic button. I think people are wondering why, given your first statement, we're not totally dominant in soccer.  

 

[gianmarco]

I don't think I disagree with any -- and I mean any of this post, especially the bolded. I think we're getting hung up on size and speed, something that I, in particular, am not arguing. Both the cultural emphasis and diversification of sport are responsible for disallowing us from becoming a soccer powerhouse. 

But then why do we dominate basketball under the same diversity conditions?  The emphasis is surely different, but I think that's what people, when they make the "we play other sports" arguments really mean, though I may be reading into it.  

2 reasons:

Because of our numbers, size DOES matter for a sport like basketball.  And secondly, it simply isn't popular around the world to the extent that it is here.  If other countries had started playing basketball 100 years ago like they did with soccer and had the same enthusiasm as they do for soccer, then no doubt we'd be behind in that sport as well.  We developed football and basketball.  That said, other countries are closing that gap, even in basketball, which goes to show that things can change.

 

[Warrior]

Honestly, I have the answer, and some aren't going to like it.

It's because most kids in the US have better things to do than practice kicking a ball 8 hours a day.

 

[TripItUp]

I don't think anybody hit the panic button. I think people are wondering why, given your first statement, we're not totally dominant in soccer.  

It's this simple, In Brazil and Germany there are more kids that dedicate their young lives to playing soccer.  It's mostly a numbers game.  Our youth coaching needs to get better too.   You have those two things, we're there.

The USA is catching up, but we're not there yet.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I don't think anybody hit the panic button. I think people are wondering why, given your first statement, we're not totally dominant in soccer.  

we talked about this earlier in the thread but there is very little correlation between population size and how good a country is at soccer.  Take a look at some of the most populated countries in the world, they are horrible at the sport (China, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc). 

Brazil is the only top ten populated country that is also a top playing country.

 

[rockaction]

It's this simple, In Brazil and Germany there are more kids that dedicate their young lives playing soccer.

The USA is catching up, but we're not there yet.

But then we have people in the thread arguing that isn't the case. 

Now I'm confused. 

There are structural arguments about youth and adult soccer. 

There are size/speed arguments coming from both sides. 

There are cultural arguments -- that we do not value both sport and soccer as much as other countries. 

Then there are participation arguments. 

Is it possible that it's a combination of all four?  

 

[rockaction]

we talked about this earlier in the thread but there is very little correlation between population size and how good a country is at soccer.  Take a look at some of the most populated countries in the world, they are horrible at the sport (China, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc). 

Brazil is the only top ten populated country that is also a top playing country.

Yeah, I wasn't agreeing, I was just breaking down his argument.  

 

[TripItUp]

It's because most kids in the US have better things to do than practice kicking a ball 8 hours a day.

This is partially true, kids in Brazil see soccer as a way out of poverty...every one of them has that dream.  

Upperclass kids in the USA are more concerned with getting into a good college, that's a sure thing and not a professional soccer pipe dream.   

That being said, the USA has plenty of lower and middle class kids playing soccer now and the dream is becoming more real for them.

 

[NewlyRetired]

But then we have people in the thread arguing that isn't the case. 

Now I'm confused. 

There are structural arguments about youth and adult soccer. 

There are size/speed arguments coming from both sides. 

There are cultural arguments -- that we do not value both sport and soccer as much as other countries. 

Then there are participation arguments. 

Is it possible that it's a combination of all four?  

almost certainly.  This is a complex problem and there are a ton of variables that are all mixed in. 

As Cletius mentioned, this is something that has been talked about and debated for 20 years now with no obvious solution.

 

[rockaction]

I mean, I generally want to leave this to the soccer heads, as I'm nothing but a casual fan, but I also played soccer as a youth and in high school, and played with some serious kids on my team. One captained a top twenty Hartwick, another was all-decade at Princeton. It's not like I tune into soccer every four years and have absolutely no clue. I just don't follow it because I don't love it.  

I mean, I'm no stranger to soccer, nor totally ignorant. It's quite possible it's all four of the things we're talking about. 

eta* I was not very good. Greatness doesn't rub off necessarily. But I'm not unfamiliar with the arguments presented nor the sport.

eta* This was changed because I gave inaccurate information. The Princeton kid scored against Reyna's UVA team in a 3-1 loss in the semis.   

 

[TripItUp]

But then we have people in the thread arguing that isn't the case. 

Now I'm confused. 

There are structural arguments about youth and adult soccer. 

There are size/speed arguments coming from both sides. 

There are cultural arguments -- that we do not value both sport and soccer as much as other countries. 

Then there are participation arguments. 

Is it possible that it's a combination of all four?  

size/speed argument is terrible and doesn't really belong. 

In terms of participation, that's  a bad argument as well, we have more youth playing soccer than Iceland.(for example)

 

[roadkill1292]

Hup Tasker and his league. We need those in every American town/county with more than 200,000 people living there.

 

[rockaction]

size/speed argument is terrible and doesn't really belong. 

In terms of participation, that's  a bad argument as well, we have more youth playing soccer than Iceland.(for example)

Okay, I'm just summarizing the arguments being bandied about.  

 

[TakiToki]

I don't think it's as much of a case of needing the Von Millers and Adrian Petersons growing up playing soccer, as it is having the Tarik Cohens and Spud Webbs growing up playing soccer. 

 

[TripItUp]

almost certainly.  This is a complex problem and there are a ton of variables that are all mixed in. 

As Cletius mentioned, this is something that has been talked about and debated for 20 years now with no obvious solution.

I think the solution is to keep doing what we're doing.  Are there things we can do differently from an infrastructure/coaching/development perspective, sure, but for now we are catching up and that's about all that you can ask.  

You don't just snap your fingers and become Germany or Brazil.

 

[Short Corner]

The USA is catching up, but we're not there yet.

You guys are fooling yourselves.  The USA is losing ground.

 

[TripItUp]

I don't think it's as much of a case of needing the Von Millers and Adrian Petersons growing up playing soccer, as it is having the Tarik Cohens and Spud Webbs growing up playing soccer. 

My guess is that Cohen and Webb would have been horrible soccer players.

Just like Usain Bolt would be a horrible NFL player.

It's rather amusing that Americans can't grasp these simple concepts.

 

[TripItUp]

You guys are fooling yourselves.  The USA is losing ground.

by what measure?

 

[Mookie]

Simply put, kids in the USA don't touch the ball enough.  From the start (U6), kids are taught to in a highly structured environment that is too focused on winning games and has very little emphasis on skill development.  As a result, our soccer identity is a highly structured, kick and chase game that promotes big, strong, and fast kids and marginalizes the small player who takes chances will the ball.  It is that structure (i.e. tournaments and games) that kills development, and leads to a gaping hole in the middle of the field for our national team.     

 

[TripItUp]

Simply put, kids in the USA don't touch the ball enough.  From the start (U6), kids are taught to in a highly structured environment that is too focused on winning games and has very little emphasis on skill development.  As a result, our soccer identity is a highly structured, kick and chase game that promotes big, strong, and fast kids and marginalizes the small player who takes chances will the ball.  It is that structure (i.e. tournaments and games) that kills development, and leads to a gaping hole in the middle of the field for our national team.     

definitely part of the problem, but Neymar was discovered on a beach.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Doesn't this sort of speak to the argument that we do other things as youths? I think when people are saying our best play other sports, they're meaning that we have such a diversity of sport in America and value the other ones from a young age. At least that's what I would argue.  

Would you argue that the NBA would have much better quality if there were no football, hockey or baseball here?  That when a top athletic kid gravitates toward football that robs the future NBA of a great player? Would you argue that our Ryder Cup team would dominate Europe if only kids everywhere were golfing rather than playing other sports?  That doesn't make sense to me.  There's no reason to think a great NBA or NFL player would also excel at a different sport if only he'd chosen that sport as a kid.  Of course, there are guys out there working as accountants, taxi-drivers and meth addicts who, but for a different upbringing or a choice made here or there could be playing a professional sport. Some kids fall through the cracks in soccer because they make other choices. That happens in all sports everywhere.  If Kobe Bryant's family had stayed in Italy and he'd played only soccer in his youth, he may have been a decent player as an adult but its highly unlikely he would have ever been a professional soccer player.  Kobe found his best sport to be certain.  Of course, it is certain that potentially great soccer players fall through the cracks in the US, perhaps more often than elsewhere just because our kids have so many options.  While not debating the truth of that concept, the fact remains that to say our national soccer team would become dominant on the world stage if only our top professional athletes from other sports had instead pursued soccer, is absolutely false and completely misses the point.  

 

[timschochet]

I haven’t read through the thread so maybe (probably) somebody’s brought this up, but USA woman’s soccer is typically always one of the favorites to win it all and when they don’t its an upset. So what are they doing that the boys are not? 

 

[rockaction]

Would you argue that the NBA would have much better quality if there were no football, hockey or baseball here?  That when a top athletic kid gravitates toward football that robs the future NBA of a great player? Would you argue that our Ryder Cup team would dominate Europe if only kids everywhere were golfing rather than playing other sports?  That doesn't make sense to me.  There's no reason to think a great NBA or NFL player would also excel at a different sport if only he'd chosen that sport as a kid.  Of course, there are guys out there working as accountants, taxi-drivers and meth addicts who, but for a different upbringing or a choice made here or there could be playing a professional sport. Some kids fall through the cracks in soccer because they make other choices. That happens in all sports everywhere.  If Kobe Bryant's family had stayed in Italy and he'd played only soccer in his youth, he may have been a decent player as an adult but its highly unlikely he would have ever been a professional soccer player.  Kobe found his best sport to be certain.  Of course, it is certain that potentially great soccer players fall through the cracks in the US, perhaps more often than elsewhere just because our kids have so many options.  While not debating the truth of that concept, the fact remains that to say our national soccer team would become dominant on the world stage if only our top professional athletes from other sports had instead pursued soccer, is absolutely false and completely misses the point.  

In other words, different skill sets allow us to specialize in different sports and that it's not a zero-sum game? I find that tenable.  

 

[TripItUp]

Would you argue that the NBA would have much better quality if there were no football, hockey or baseball here?  That when a top athletic kid gravitates toward football that robs the future NBA of a great player? Would you argue that our Ryder Cup team would dominate Europe if only kids everywhere were golfing rather than playing other sports?  That doesn't make sense to me.  There's no reason to think a great NBA or NFL player would also excel at a different sport if only he'd chosen that sport as a kid.  Of course, there are guys out there working as accountants, taxi-drivers and meth addicts who, but for a different upbringing or a choice made here or there could be playing a professional sport. Some kids fall through the cracks in soccer because they make other choices. That happens in all sports everywhere.  If Kobe Bryant's family had stayed in Italy and he'd played only soccer in his youth, he may have been a decent player as an adult but its highly unlikely he would have ever been a professional soccer player.  Kobe found his best sport to be certain.  Of course, it is certain that potentially great soccer players fall through the cracks in the US, perhaps more often than elsewhere just because our kids have so many options.  While not debating the truth of that concept, the fact remains that to say our national soccer team would become dominant on the world stage if only our top professional athletes from other sports had instead pursued soccer, is absolutely false and completely misses the point.  

It's a rather absurd logic that makes Americans appear as buffoons.  Might as well have Lebron James playing in the Masters and Kevin Durant at Wimbledon...athleticism rules all!! 

 

[TakiToki]

Would you argue that the NBA would have much better quality if there were no football, hockey or baseball here?  That when a top athletic kid gravitates toward football that robs the future NBA of a great player? Would you argue that our Ryder Cup team would dominate Europe if only kids everywhere were golfing rather than playing other sports?  That doesn't make sense to me.  There's no reason to think a great NBA or NFL player would also excel at a different sport if only he'd chosen that sport as a kid.  Of course, there are guys out there working as accountants, taxi-drivers and meth addicts who, but for a different upbringing or a choice made here or there could be playing a professional sport. Some kids fall through the cracks in soccer because they make other choices. That happens in all sports everywhere.  If Kobe Bryant's family had stayed in Italy and he'd played only soccer in his youth, he may have been a decent player as an adult but its highly unlikely he would have ever been a professional soccer player.  Kobe found his best sport to be certain.  Of course, it is certain that potentially great soccer players fall through the cracks in the US, perhaps more often than elsewhere just because our kids have so many options.  While not debating the truth of that concept, the fact remains that to say our national soccer team would become dominant on the world stage if only our top professional athletes from other sports had instead pursued soccer, is absolutely false and completely misses the point.  

I don't think most are claiming that the NFL Pro Bowl is directly analogous to soccer greatness. It's more that a kid that may have been an elite soccer player in another culture is more likely to end up a 3rd team cornerback at Alabama in the US.

 

[TripItUp]

I haven’t read through the thread so maybe (probably) somebody’s brought this up, but USA woman’s soccer is typically always one of the favorites to win it all and when they don’t its an upset. So what are they doing that the boys are not? 

IMHO, this is more about what the other countries are doing wrong vs. what we are doing right.

American culture is much more open to female athletics than most of the rest of the world.

 

[rockaction]

IMHO, this is more about what the other countries are doing wrong vs. what we are doing right.

America culture is much more open to female athletics than most of the rest of the world.

China kills female babies, and they manage to do pretty well with athletics.